Was Hitler that bad?

Caballero, no one asked Stalin to help i believe, he merely acted as if he wanted to, and in a way that was entirely reasonable - what with securing the front lines and everything.

However when you look at it from the perspective of Stalin's actual character, what seems more like the truth is that He took advantage of the regional instability, that much is certain.

I agree that those should probably be the actual words that are written, and that it is odd that they are not.

Unfortunately, i am fairly certain that had Stalin not squared up to Hitler, Operation Market Garden and D-Day would never have been so successful, and Allied casualties would have been much higher.

I guess the allied forces who were in those operations were simply relieved that Stalin decided to throw his weight about, and as such a more favourable light was cast upon him by the Military.

here.

Did it occur to you to ask why he starved his country and locked up dissenters?

To Make himself Look like an Ally of the West.

When you write the history books, they stay written.

Anything else is an after-thought.

We only found out about the crimes against humanity that he committed after the history books were written, is what i'm saying.

and here.

i felt you defended stalins actions and kind of talked him down away from hitlers level making stalin seem better.

reply to post by caballero


Thanks for the clarification. Going by your avatar,I assumed you to be a gorgeous lady )

Anyways, Hitler has always been a symbol of evil.People even say he was the antichrist. But wouldn't one think about the outcome if he had come out victorious in WWII. The perspectives would have changed and people would have known him to be otherwise. All his'virtues' would have come to the fore. How do you see good in something so black and degenerate. Hitler is the epitome of the mankind's nightmare. A person with power of a nation. We can only thank god for riddance. As a kid I was quite fascinated by the heroics of the fiend and had it not been for my deep interest in the subject;I would have held him in high regard. What went on in Germany under him is unbelievable. So much force against unarmed civilians!? Sometimes I tell myself - No Hitler never existed.No he didn't do what he did.No it all political propaganda. Alas,how I wish it was true.

reply to post by AryanWatch


ahaha no no i assure you i am a man, i find your stance on hitler very interesting you seem to admire him for his leadership abilities but disown him becuase he is a mass murderer, correct me if i am wrong.

and yes to many he is the stuff of nightmares but what if a told you that islam karimov scared me more than hitler? its that we should truly hate all people like hitler and karimov, but from what we learn at a young age until death is that hitler is more evil.

reply to post by caballero


Erm... no, my point was that Stalin did a good job of trying not to look like an enemy.

I apologise if i didn't make my point clear enough.

reply to post by caballero


You are right. I admire him for the pride that he injected into the Germans even though it was shortlived and I also admire him for hi leadership skills and oratory skills.What he achieved in his personal life is just mindboggling. If he had just decided to overlook the issue of Jews,he would have stood on equal grounds with Mr.George Bush

Ultimately i was trying to explain why Stalin wasn't as badly condemned as Hitler was, so the fact that you didn't pay attention is actually quite irritating.

As i know now - you didn't have any intention of paying attention, because you already knew the *snip* answer.

and thats one of the reasons i think hitler isnt as bad as we make him out to be. because he did a lot of great stuff for the german people however he did very mean stuff as well but in my mind the two cancel each other out (hear me out first) because im not about putting one persons life over another. so he helped many people but he killed many more people and because he killed many more people he is very evil in my eyes. but i cant forget the people he helped as well many families went from poor tomiddle class in his reign from starving to well fed.

but what has islam karimov done good? what has kim jong-il done good? or pol pot? and stalin? those men did nothing for their countries, and whats the name of that african dictator that had the "last king of scotland" made after him what did he do for his people?

[edit on 15-5-2008 by caballero]

This is an extremely interesting thread for a few reasons. My short answer, "No, Hitler wasn't that bad, but Jesus wasn't that good either!

Mother Teresa, for example was probably a lot better person than Jesus and certainly some of the Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison suffered more than he did.

As time goes on standards are raised in sports. Why not in evil and saintliness too. Jesus couldn't compete against Chris Angel for instance or David Blaine in "miracles" and Mother T. blows him away in the loving kindness department.

Some people, like Babe Ruth in baseball are extraordinary. Their records last a long time. Hitler, Stalin and Mao would be in that category. Bush has been in office eight years and hasn't even approached Hitler's murder totals, despite having a better army to do it with.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Hitler is taught to our youth and protrayed in our Media as THE Bad guy. Notice in the "news" everyday there is almost ALWAYS some story about "the Holocaust" or survior that did this or that, or Nazi's this or that, It is RIDICULAS, but the FACT IS that ALL the Newspapers, Movie Studio's, Radio Stations and virtually ALL of Hollywood is controled by Jew , owned by Jews and run by Jews-this is NOT A DEBATABLE issue.

Oh wow. Smacking of an agenda much here?

Why would a group of people choose to continue to "remind and teach" generations of people about something that happened (or did not) happen over 60 years ago??

It happened. Just because it happened "over 60 years ago" is not an excuse to forget it. Many things happened hundreds of years ago that are hugely important in modern society.

Then ask yourself THIS question. If it takes a modern cremation about 12 hours to completely turn a body into ash at 1200 degrees; how could Auchwitz (which had only 12 ovens) "process over 2 million" corpes in less than 2 years?

"Only 12 ovens".

Heres the maths

From

IFCA Guide to Cremation

How long does it take to cremate a body?

Cremating at the optimum temperature (1400 - 1800 degrees), the average weighted remains takes 2 to 2 1/2 hours.

You do not know what you are talking about.

How did Sorbibor "gas" Jews if the Jews themselves claimed they used a "diesle engine stolen from a Russian tank"? Diesle engines produce small amounts of carbon-dioxide. The Germans hold the most ammout of Nobel prize's for CHEMISTRY. They would have known this.

From

Sobibor

Sobibór was a Nazi German extermination camp that was part of Operation Reinhard; the official German name was SS-Sonderkommando Sobibor. Jews, including Jewish Soviet POWs, and possibly Gypsies were transported to Sobibór by rail, and suffocated in gas chambers that were fed with the exhaust of a petrol engine. At least 250,000 people were killed at Sobibór. A memorial and museum are at the site today.

Why did the Nazi's (if they were soooo bad have Christian Crosses on their tanks and airpalnes) We're they really "BAD" or have we been lied to for 60 years??

They weren't "christian" crosses. They were simplified representations of the Iron Cross

Would YOU rather visit Germany or Isreal??

Now theres an interesting question that belies a motive

Educate yourself on the history of The Zionist Jews and why did they "declare War" on Germany in 1933?

Please read some history.

Here. Let me help you. Try looking Here

Why can't you question the Offical Version of the Holocaust in Europe. (This is a CRIME in Europe--you can go to PRISON, just for asking for more evidence)

Rubbish. Absolute hogwash.

Austrialian archeologist went to Poland to dig evidence of "millions of dead Jews"---they used underground radar and sifted throughout the "death camps". They found nothing.

Theres a reason for posts like yours, and it really has no place in a modern, civilised society, where everyone is equal.

yes he was that bad....

end of discussion....

close the topic

I think the question really should have been along the lines of..why is hitler the epitome of evil for the modern world.

I think the answers are simple:

1. He was the head of an organization that tried to take over the world. HIS ACTIONS AFFECTED EVERY HUMAN IN ALL CORNERS OF THE GLOBE. No other dictator has done that before or since.

2. He was the leader of a military that rewrote the book on warfare! The tactics used by the nazis completly shocked the world. No one had ever used an army like they did.

3. He was a charasmatic leader who understood the idea of building a myth around himself and his twisted party. He was very aware of his image, look at the uniforms, the parades, the spectacles. People who saw him speak say they were captivated by what he said. Even people who didnt agree with him.

4. He controlled the emerging media of film in a NEW way no one had done before. The amount of propoganda films produced by the nazis are numerous and highly produced. His image and myth was sent all around the globe via film.

5. 60+ years after his death his actions are still affecting peoples daily lives. The ripple from what he did shaped the modern world.

Honestly can you really say any of the dictators mentioned did these things? they may have done some of them but not all of them. They may have killed more people, but you cant look at numbers you have to look at the whole picture.

Hitler is in a league of his own and always will be.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by drock905]

[edit on 15-5-2008 by drock905]

reply to post by AryanWatch


Actually Hitler had problems not only with Jews. He did spent a lot of energy and effort in this , but he also was busy getting other people killed too. Not to mention several hundred millions that were about to become slaves just because they belonged to another ethnic group. I personally fear that if he went only after the Jews, he would be not considered worse then several Spanish monarchs.

OP - i wonder what are YOUR thoughts and ideas for Hitler being reminded and others not. This is because i feel that people you are so actively agree with, are thinking that Hitler is actually not that bad as others - and this is understatement. And the post states - "Was Hitler that bad?". Hmmmm.

I shouldn't do this, but I can't resist.

When I first saw the thread, I read the question as really not being a question of "Hitler- not as bad as they say," but I assumed the question was why he was so high-profile. I know this has been said 134,000 times on here. But the assertions made insinuating that this was a platform for ant-semitism isn't legit.

Also, I find it strange that people are so defensive of Jewish organizations. Is questioning the actions of organized Jewish groups ant-semitism? I know the Palestinians do have a point in some respects. I'm not condoning their methods of protest, but criticism of Jewish organizations should not be automatically regarded as hate speech.

And it is totally true that many many Westerners had a pretty good idea of what the Third Reich was up to and turned a blind eye. The US, the French were down with it, as were the Italians. Nobody goes around calling every old Italian person a Nazi. It amazes me when I talk to any young German person how everybody's grandparents were against the Party, or secretly involved with a Resistance movement. Well, I'm sorry, but they couldn't ALL have been.

And this may be a part of Hitler's high-profile: GUILT. GUILT. Nobody in old Western Europe oo the US was ever on-board with Stalin, or Mao, but people WERE on-board with the Nazi agenda. Some are still considered "Great Americans" and such....

Oh and here's one: Vlad Tsepesh (Dracula) or Vlad the Impaler.
For not having industrial capability he was a MFer!! Thousands died excurciating, slow, deaths. Not a good time (mid-13th century) or place (Wallachia) to be a Turk or a Gypsy.

reply to post by djerwulfe


There is criticism and there is something else. If person says that certain Jewish organization/country is wrong and shows why - this is great. But when someone says that Armenian genocide is not taught in schools because there are many Jews in media- this is not criticism. Do you think that statement that Jewish lobby is busy with preventing this kind of info form reaching eyes and ears of students - without any proof and using weird logic - is criticism or simply bashing?
I can say with the same amount of logic and proof that Polish lobby is doing the same to Mao story just to use "sympathy" factor for themself - will you also consider this an argument/criticism or would call me (justly) with all uncomplimentary names?

reply to post by drock905


I think what you’re stating and the way you state it, is the whole reason for the Thread. When we try to answer the question posed 'Was Hitler that bad?' We will look inwards and answer based on what we have read, watched or been told. Now my point is that your points could well be actually turned back on the USA after their dropping of the worst 2 bombs in history then and now! The 'ripple' affects are still being felt in Japan and the rest of the world as this gave the US and its chosen allies the mandate to 'change the face of Wars' from then onwards.

History as we read it is usually never a true reflection of actual events and feelings at the time, never was, never will be. So even I arguing my point will be based on historical inaccuracies but one thing that I do know is that if Hitler was in the eyes of modern man the worst and we got rid of him. Then he can't be held accountable for the continued atrocities that came after his death. So take a look at the 'history' of your world in the hands of the 'Victors'. You think it’s been better; we’re safer, more peaceful, and happier in the hands of the victors since Hitler died?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


I agree wholeheartedly with your point. There is a distinction to be made. But there is a knee-jerk reaction I've noted to be defensive when anyone insinuates that a Jewish organization has or is engaged in unethical activities. I ask in all sincerity, have Jewish organizations never committed, supported or been accomplices in anything we as modern humans with a Western cultural slant to our purported values could view as being "wrong?"
It would seem that many people feel that way. And I don't know. There's some ambiguity about syntax here, as always.

Wish I had time to read this entire thread. It looks very interesting.

IMO, the sole reason Hitler gets the recognition he does over other evil dictators is simple "brand recognition" as the marketing people call it.
Hitler got more press than the others because he was involved so directly with
WW2, thus he assumed a bigger role on a global scale.
He got more press than the other bad guys, so we all heard more about him than the other bad guys.

It's just like product advertising...think of chicken restaurants, you think Kentucky Fried Chicken. Think of soda pop, you think Coke. Think of evil dictators, you think of Hitler.

Why? Maybe because the Communists have been successful at convincing the world that the National Socialist Party was a right-wing organization. Stalin, Mao were Communists and everybody knows that they were really good people who only had to 'break a couple of eggs to make an omlet'.

Look everyone here is saying Hitler was a bad guy, Hitler was Evil...According to whom. He did what he did because he belived it to be right. You will say what he did was wrong, also not true. What was his goal? One race to rule the world.. If that was his goal then certainly you can not say he was going about it the wrong way. (He damn near won the war) You conceive it to be bad or Evil because it is not in your interest. I don't belive that their is one person here that can say that they haven't willinly chosen to do something that they perceived as right while another person in their life perceived it to be wrong. If this is true then your judgement of hitler and anyone else like him reflects back on to you. He that is with out sin cast the first stone!!!






[edit on 5/15/2008 by XcLuciFer]

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
Look everyone here is saying Hitler was a bad, guy hitler was Evil...According to whom. He did what he did because he belived it to be right. You will say what he did was wrong, also not true. What was his goal? One race to rule the world.. If that was his goal then certainly you can not say he was going about it the wrong why. (He damn near won the war) You concieve it to be bad or Evil because it is not is your interest. I don't belive that their is one person here that can say that they haven't willinly chosen to do something that they perceived as right while another person in their life perceived it to be wrong. If this is true then your judgement of hitler and anyone else like him reflects back on to you. He that is with out sin cast the first stone!!!

yaaa buddy, high five