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Raytheon officials say they haven't researched the ASAT mission and have no opinion about its feasibility. They do note that the AMRAAM derivative isn't as large or near as energetic as the Raytheon SM3 that shot down an errant NRO satellite earlier this year. However, they note that if launched at Mach 0.85 at 30,000-40,000, the new, 358-lb. missile becomes much more capable against objects at altitudes of 30 kms. or more.
Link
"If you put the missile in an F-22 and launch it at Mach 2 and 60,000 ft. while in a zoom and at a 45-degree angle, you've got an ASAT capability against spacecraft in low-earth orbit," he says.
Raytheon officials gave Aviation Week a look at the latest test video of the sensor capability of this new, air-launched, missile-defense weapon they're developing. The AMRAAM-derivative is called the NCADE for network-centric airborne defense element. For this test, smaller Aim-9 air-to-air missiles were used.
Two F-16s, each carrying an Aim-9 equipped with the NCADE's highly specialized infrared seeker, attacked 14-in. diameter target missiles over the White Sands Missile Range, N.M. The first missile grazed the missiles body and took off two fins. The second came within about a yard of the target missile, good enough to validate the system, says, Mike Booen, Raytheon's vice president of advanced missile defense. Future testing will involve the missile’s divert and attitude control system.
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For the present, NCADE is being developed as a boost-phase interceptor with seekers that can distinguish between the rocket plume and hard body from launch. That avoids inaccuracies or last minute course changes caused by seekers having to shift from the plume's heat as an aiming point to the much cooler target missile's body.
Booen says that Air Force planners are adamant that the missile be on forward deployed, manned fighters like the F-22. They bring up the frustration in the 1991 Gulf War when pilots could see Scuds ascending, but had no way to attack them.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
This will allow current font line fighters to target theater tactical ballistic missiles in the boost stage immediately.
Originally posted by kilcoo316
It would never have enough stored energy to make a decent fist of ASAT interception.
Originally posted by kilcoo316
I'm not even sure if it could catch a ballistic on boost phase either. Unless its fired unfeasibly close to the launch site itself or along the exact missile flight path.
Originally posted by kilcoo316
Sorry, but no AIM-120 is EVER going to catch that.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
Umm... this is an enhanced AMRAAM,
Originally posted by WestPoint23
and if launched in a zoom climb at high speed it has a LEO capability,
Originally posted by WestPoint23
similar to what the F-15 launched ASAT missile displayed in the 80's. Sorry but you don't have the information necessary to dismiss it outright,
Originally posted by WestPoint23
I'm sure you would have said the same for the SM-3.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
It's meant to intercept tactical ballistic missile in the boost/ascent stage, and yes it is meant to be fired from airborne assets pretty close the launch point.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
As I said above the motor stage of this missiles has been enhanced, your calculations are not correct as we don't yet have accurate figures.
Originally posted by kilcoo316
Sorry, but no AIM-120 is EVER going to catch that.
, particularly when the example officially used is of the highest-performance jet that there currently is? It just seems to me that taking the conceptual ability of the top aircraft and assuming it will apply to all aircraft capable of carrying the missile is a bit of an extension without sufficient proof to back it up.
virtually all major manned and unmanned aircraft in US service capable of carrying the missile
Originally posted by FredT
Darkpr0, what about the X-Band radar system in Alaska providing cuing for the F-22's?
For that matter, the AESA radar is supposed to have 100+ mile range so its not that far fetched that if the fighter got cues to be within the correct arc of the radar, a satelite in LEO could be tracked?
NCADE is an AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) that adds the infrared seeker from Raytheon's AIM-9X air-to-air missile, and also adds a second-stage rocket motor from Aerojet [GY]. The rocket motor will use an advanced hydroxylammonium nitrate monopropellant thruster; its improved performance and high-density packaging should allow lighter, higher-velocity missiles. Hydroxylammonium nitrate is also less toxic and easier to handle than other propellants, and could eventually enable safe shipboard operation. Despite the addition of the second-stage propulsion, the NCADE missile is still the same size as an AMRAAM.
Originally posted by Harlequin
so its an AMRAAM with an IR seeker and a rocket booster.
NCADE is an air-launched weapon system designed to engage short- and medium-range ballistic missiles in the boost and ascent phase of flight. NCADE provides an interim or near-term solution to boost or ascent phase threats.
Originally posted by kilcoo316
Ooohhhh, its enhanced is it?
Chuck every other weapon in the inventory out then.
NCADE (Network Centric Airborne Defense Element) is a program to develop an air-launched anti-missile interceptor missile using AMRAAM components. The NCADE missile replaces the AIM-120's radar seeker with the IIR (Imaging Infrared) seeker of the AIM-9X Sidewinder, and changes the propulsion system to a two-stage rocket. The latter consists of an AIM-120 first stage and a new Aerojet second stage, which can provide a thrust of 0.55 kN (125 lb) for more than 25 seconds. NCADE's airframe, flight control system and aircraft interface are essentially the same as on the AIM-120, making the missile immediately compatible with many existing launch platforms.
Originally posted by kilcoo316
Start thinking for yourself before taking every word from a press release as fact.
Originally posted by kilcoo316
It would have to be fired from within 50km (or along the flight path) I reckon to catch an IRBM.
Against a developed air defense, that is going to be difficult.
Originally posted by Darkpr0
How, exactly, would you propose to locate, target, and identify a satellite in orbit around the earth, even from 60,000 feet from...
It was launched by an F-15 in a high-altitude supersonic climb. The F-15's computer was updated with special guidance algorithms, and the head-up display was also modified to provide additional steering cues to the pilot. This was necessary, because the zoom-climb and missile release had to be flown exactly as calculated to get the missile near the target satellite.
Originally posted by Darkpr0
It just seems to me that taking the conceptual ability of the top aircraft and assuming it will apply to all aircraft capable of carrying the missile is a bit of an extension without sufficient proof to back it up.
Originally posted by chinawhite
Do you have any dimensions?
Originally posted by Harlequin
…it is NOT for Intemediate or Continental range weapons.
Originally posted by Harlequin
…the apogee of a short range rocket is actually below 60,000 feet - so this is feasable - but it is not for LEO or otherwise ; you can`t argue when the people making it say its not for that role.
Originally posted by Willard
And as for the speed and altitude, you won't see too many aircraft in a 45 degree climb, 60k and Mach 2. I'd be impressed if even the Raptor could do this.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
Originally posted by Harlequin
…it is NOT for Intemediate or Continental range weapons.
Who stated otherwise?
the NCAD AMRAAM will also be capable and ready to quickly provide LEO ASAT capability from virtually all major manned and unmanned aircraft in US service capable of carrying the missile
Originally posted by WestPoint23
Originally posted by Harlequin
…the apogee of a short range rocket is actually below 60,000 feet - so this is feasable - but it is not for LEO or otherwise ; you can`t argue when the people making it say its not for that role.
The Scud was mentioned in the article so I'll take that as the standard subject. But apogee does not really matter as it was designed to go after targets in the boost/ascent stage not when they reach apogee.
Originally posted by Harlequin
you did first post
"the NCAD AMRAAM will also be capable and ready to quickly provide LEO ASAT capability from virtually all major manned and unmanned aircraft in US service capable of carrying the missile"
Originally posted by Harlequin
this missile will NOT be a LEO ASAT` weapon.
Originally posted by Harlequin
no but it coasts to the apogee - which as i said is below the flight profile for this mission type - a point which you missed.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
Originally posted by Harlequin
you did first post
"the NCAD AMRAAM will also be capable and ready to quickly provide LEO ASAT capability from virtually all major manned and unmanned aircraft in US service capable of carrying the missile"
Where in there do you see "Intemediate or Continental range weapons"?
Something else which I posted... "This will allow current font line fighters to target theater tactical ballistic missiles in the boost stage immediately."
I still see no mention of intermediate or continental range weapons.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
Originally posted by Harlequin
this missile will NOT be a LEO ASAT` weapon.
It's not primarily made to be a LEO ASAT weapon, the question is does it have an inherent capability, given certain parameters, to act in such a role.
Originally posted by Harlequin
no but it coasts to the apogee - which as i said is below the flight profile for this mission type - a point which you missed.
Originally posted by Harlequin
space - so where did that statement of yours come from?
Originally posted by Harlequin
i am merely quoting your first post - if you wish to contradict yourself then thats up to you.
Originally posted by Harlequin
no it will not - the manufacturer of the weapon say so - so unless you know something they dont - your wrong.
Originally posted by Harlequin
the apogee - or highest point in the ballisitc arc is below the height that the shooting aircraft will be firing from.
Originally posted by Harlequin
so by that theory of yours - any air launched missile could be used that way.
Originally posted by Harlequin
but - as others have shown that won`t happen - and the maker have said it won`t.
Originally posted by Harlequin
and attribute something you did not say?