Massacre in Tibet!

reply to post by gs001


No crankiness here. I pay attention to all the information coming out around the world concerning the occupation of Tibet by china. The fact still remains the same..Tibetans want the chinese to leave their country. They do not want the chinese version of modernization, they do not want chinese pollution, they tire of seeing Tibetan resources stollen, they do not want their wives and daughters raped while in the custody of chinese military. I come to my conclusions because I have the ability to put myself in someone elses shoes, I think that is called empathy and compassion.

Originally posted by Witness2008
they do not want their wives and daughters raped while in the custody of chinese military.

Of please



How about the one where Hu Jintao drinks from skulls of Tibetan babies. Seriously you need to get off those fetish websites

reply to post by chinawhite


The internet is loaded with accounts of the rape of Tibetan women and they come from various news sources. Did I touch a sore spot in you somewhere?

www.indianexpress.com...

reply to post by chinawhite


How does the link you provided speak to anything other than what I am saying. Tibet wants their culture, religious freedom, their environment back. The sixteen point agreement that Moa tried to force on the Dalai Lama was rejected and to this day remains unsigned.

Originally posted by Witness2008
The internet is loaded with accounts of the rape of Tibetan women and they come from various news sources. Did I touch a sore spot in you somewhere?

Firstly your link doesn't work

Loaded with "claims" not "accounts". And the site you use is quoting The tibetan independence movement, bias much.....?

The sixteen point agreement that Moa tried to force on the Dalai Lama was rejected and to this day remains unsigned.

You mean the 17 Point Agreement. Which has been signed and lasted until 1959 when the Chinese implemented social reforms which took the power away from the lamas and freed the majority of the Tibetan people from slavery.

ROFL, 16 point agreement

How does the link you provided speak to anything other than what I am saying. Tibet wants their culture, religious freedom, their environment back.

You said independence, they said autonomy. Wanting the Chinese out is NOT autonomy

Answer To An Empire:

• Get Out
  
• Theft Is Theft
  
• Its Not Yours
  
• Go Home
  

(Seen on a wall in Lhasa).


I, for one, will NOT be going to these Olympics.

reply to post by chinawhite


I stand corrected on the seventeen point agreement but you may want to read the history that is provided within the following link. To this day it remains unsigned by the Dalai Lama and rejected by Tibetans.

www.tibet.com...

I would have to say that Tibetans are wanting their independance given their actions during the past few days. I am pretty sure that the Dalai Lama wants china out of his homeland. Autonomy is independance in that they want their culture, their life style, their environment back. Do you think Tibetans would begrudge a chinese national living amonst them in peace, I think not. China wants to crush Tibet and chinese action screams of it.

The link I provided worked just fine for me. I provide another that speaks to the censorship of chinese news.

www.cbsnews.com...

If you like I can find some more news articles on the ill treatment of Tibetan women under chinese rule.

Originally posted by Witness2008
To this day it remains unsigned by the Dalai Lama and rejected by Tibetans.

IT WAS SIGNED

They were apparently forced to sign it but it wasn't signed?. Come on thats contradictory

The government which was elected at that point signed the agreement (which is what you do). That Tibet site argues that the "invalidly signed" meaning that someone or a group didn't agree to it. But it was signed by the then current Tibetan government. They also mention that the "Tibetan" people never agreed to it. They were slaves and NEVER had the choice to choose in the first place

It was only rejected in 1959. The Dalai Lama accepted at the time but when Chinese social reforms arrived and took his power and his slaves away he led them on a rebellion. The CIA was actually responsible for the insurgency beforehand, 11,000 Tibetans were trained in California

After his arrival in India, His Holiness stated that since China had broken the terms of the 17 Point Agreement, the Government of Tibet could no longer have legal basis for recognising the 17 Point Agreement) –Thuten Kesang
www.friends-of-tibet.org.nz...

Little fact of history. The Chinese emperor chooses the Dalai Lama

I would have to say that Tibetans are wanting their independance given their actions during the past few days.

Who are you?.

Do you think Tibetans would begrudge a chinese national living amonst them in peace

Like that guy riding his bike getting pelted with stones?. Yeah, very peaceful

The link I provided worked just fine for me.

The Indian one

If you like I can find some more news articles on the ill treatment of Tibetan women under chinese rule.

Unless that sources have evidence and not a single line such as "Tibetan women and children are raped" or that BS, dont waste my time

[edit on 15-3-2008 by chinawhite]

Notice how the majority of tibetans stayed in tibet after 1959. The other portion of the population (which were mostly lamas or the second estate of France) fed from the social reforms.

Do you know much about history?. If you do then the situation in Tibet is comparable to France and Russia. The analogues of this can be compared to Americas slave trade, although everyone is of the same race

In 1953, the greater part of the rural population---some 700,000 of an estimated total population of 1,250,000---were serfs. Tied to the land, they were allotted only a small parcel to grow their own food. Serfs and other peasants generally went without schooling or medical care. They spent most of their time laboring for the monasteries and individual high-ranking lamas, or for a secular aristocracy that numbered not more than 200 families. In effect, they were owned by their masters who told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama. A serf might easily be separated from his family should the owner send him to work in a distant location. Serfs could be sold by their masters, or subjected to torture and death.

Along with the upper clergy, secular leaders did well. A notable example was the commander-in-chief of the Tibetan army, who owned 4,000 square kilometers of land and 3,500 serfs. He also was a member of the Dalai Lama's lay Cabinet

Wiki

Here is a link with detailed history of the feudal system in Tibet. Including quotes edvidence and other things you wont find in emotionall charged "free tibet" websites
rwor.org...

reply to post by chinawhite


Your external source was written by Revolutionary worker #944. Chinese propoganda. We can argue all night and into tomorrow, I doubt the two of us will come to any agreement. The chinese are raping women, dumping pollutants into rivers and streams, deforesting and defacing Tibets natural beauty, and imprisoning all those that do not abide the sharp whip of chinese rule. Libraries, book stores and the internet is loaded with documentation, history and opinion on this matter. Does it look like china has liberated the Tibetans? News all over the world says NO.

Another link for the ill treatment of Tibetan women.

www.tibetanwomen.org...

The situation in Tibet is atrocious. The Chinese occupied that land illegally and now since nobody has bothered to evict them, they claim to own it and its people. The treaty signed between the Tibetan government and the Chinese was as fair as the Treaty of versailles. Singed under the gun.

The total destruction and rampage by the Communists in Tibet is inexcusable. Not only can it be termed as genocide but nothing short of wiping out the Tibetan civilization.

As for the social problems under the Lama's the people never did what they are doing now to Communist rule to the reign under the Dalai Lama. Who is worse is clear to see!

why are they HAN Chinese there anyway?? That is not their country or their land. They are there to dilute the claims by the indigenous Tibetans, nothing more and nothing less. Typical tools used for enslaving a people, forced eviction and re population. The fact that China even imagines itself to be civilized country is ludicrous when they dont even allow international journalists to report what the actual state of affairs is in Tibet. They place their "image" above the fate of human beings. It only makes them loose face twice as fast now.

Originally posted by Witness2008
Your external source was written by Revolutionary worker #944. Chinese propoganda.

ROFL,

Chinese propaganda, yeah right. It wasn't written by a Chinese person


So are you denying their sources or evidence?

Sources:
# The Anguish of Tibet, ed. Petra Kelly, Gert Bastian and Pat Aeillo, Parallax Press, Berkeley, 1991. A collection of pro-lamaist essays.
# Avedon, John F. "In Exile from the Land of Snows," in The Anguish of Tibet. Avedon, an author and Newsweekjournalist, is a prominent apologist for lamaism.
# Dalai Lama, Freedom in Exile--The Autobiography of the Dalai Lama, Harper Collins, N.Y., 1990.
# Grunfeld, A. Tom, The Making of Modern Tibet, Zed Books, 1987.
# Grunfeld, A. Tom, "Tibet: Myths and Realities," New China, Fall 1975.
# Gyaltag, Gyaltsen, "An Historical Overview," an essay published in The Anguish of Tibet. Gyaltsen Gyaltag is a representative of the Dalai Lama in Europe.
# Han Suyin; Lhasa, the Open City--A Journey to Tibet, Putnam, 1977.
# Hicks, Roger, Hidden Tibet--The Land and Its People, Element Books, Dorset, 1988.
# China Reconstructs, "Tibet--From Serfdom to Socialism," March 1976.
# Peking Review, "Tibet's Big Leap--No Return to the Old System," July 4, 1975.

The chinese are raping women

Yet you cant come up with any source to back that up

Linking to a womens rights site. tsk tsk. Read women rights sites about America or any other country if you think its only inclusive to China

dumping pollutants into rivers and streams, deforesting and defacing Tibets natural beauty

Globalisation ... EVERY country experiences it

Originally posted by IAF101
The treaty signed between the Tibetan government and the Chinese was as fair as the Treaty of versailles.

Singed under the gun.

Like every other treaty

Not only can it be termed as genocide but nothing short of wiping out the Tibetan civilization.

Which have happened to grow from 2 million to 5 million

As for the social problems under the Lama's the people never did what they are doing now to Communist rule to the reign under the Dalai Lama. Who is worse is clear to see!

What is worse. American Slavery or the ghetto

why are they HAN Chinese there anyway??

Why are Americans there anyway, Why are Australians there anyway. Why are Russians in the Far east rr the Dutch in South Africa

Double standards

abcnews.go.com...

itn.co.uk...

"China has accused followers of Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, of masterminding the rioting, which has scarred its image of national harmony"


Yeah right before this came out no one was any wiser what was going on. In other words, "dam those protesters for showing the world our true colours again, we nearly had the west fooled"

www.rsf.org...

Originally posted by iammonkey
which has scarred its image of national harmony

According to the Dalai's own thought they have

Accept Tibet as part of China: Dalai Lama

Itanagar: Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama has said he has told his people not to think in terms of history and to accept Tibet as a part of China. "What we demand from the Chinese authority is more autonomy for Tibetans to protect their culture," he told a private TV channel in an interview on Monday night. He has decided to devote the rest of his life to the promotion of human values and protection of human rights and freedom, which had no boundary, he said.

www.hindu.com...

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by IAF101
The treaty signed between the Tibetan government and the Chinese was as fair as the Treaty of versailles.

Singed under the gun.

Like every other treaty

Like every "imposed" treaty you mean.

Originally posted by chinawhite

Not only can it be termed as genocide but nothing short of wiping out the Tibetan civilization.

Which have happened to grow from 2 million to 5 million

Compared to the HAN Chinese who have gone from ZERO to many millions.

Originally posted by chinawhite

As for the social problems under the Lama's the people never did what they are doing now to Communist rule to the reign under the Dalai Lama. Who is worse is clear to see!

What is worse. American Slavery or the ghetto

Chinese Slavery.

Originally posted by chinawhite

why are they HAN Chinese there anyway??

Why are Americans there anyway, Why are Australians there anyway. Why are Russians in the Far east rr the Dutch in South Africa

Double standards

Pathetic excuse. Two wrongs dont make a right. Other peoples crimes cannot be used to justify your own.

Besides the Americans and the Australians didnt invade their countries, it was the British who set up colonies there and the colonists who became free.

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by iammonkey
which has scarred its image of national harmony

According to the Dalai's own thought they have

Accept Tibet as part of China: Dalai Lama

Doesnt answer the accusation at all.

They want more autonomy, it has nothing to do with if there is harmony or not.

Just because people were told not to protest against China by the Dalai Lama doesnt mean that they are going to stop. Just like they are doing now.

Originally posted by IAF101
Like every "imposed" treaty you mean.

Which treaty wasn't imposed

Compared to the HAN Chinese who have gone from ZERO to many millions.

Proof. Tibet CANNOT support 5 million Tibetans and "many million Chinese".

Chinese Slavery.

Pathetic, accusing someone else of acts which your country has committed itself. Thats a Insult to every black American whos family was enslaved

Its comparing the East Germans to the Holocaust in their levels of suffering

Besides the Americans and the Australians didnt invade their countries, it was the British who set up colonies there and the colonists who became free.

LOL. Pathetic double standards

So it was the British who killed the Native Americans beyond the Appalachian Mountains ?. Why dont you fix your wrong and this extreme hatred you have for injustice and surrender your house to them.

Or why DOnt the Russians, Australis, Dutch, French and other former imperial countries surrender their land.

Originally posted by IAF101
Doesnt answer the accusation at all.

They are protesting FOR INDEPENDENCE NOT AUTONOMY which is against NATIONAL HARMONY.

Dont confuse what the Dalai Lama said and what the activist are saying

reply to post by chinawhite


Would you care to provide links to those sources? I have had these arguments before when others would list Revolutionary worker articles. I will be glad to show you how the sources are cherry picked and taken out of context.

I provide a link for you that will lead you to a publication from the International League for Human Rights. Pay close attention to paragraph 9.

www.ilhr.org...

Just keep the arguments coming, I am more than happy to keep up with the educational material. I'm even learning more and feeling a lot more committed to the liberation of Tibetans.