Actual Picture of Hell

reply to post by Astrobee


I won't be dogmatic about it but I believe the word "Preached" denotes "Proclamation."

Years ago I would read that scripture and think, "Why is Jesus preaching to those, judged in Noah's day, when, they could have listened then and made it into the ark? Is He giving them a second chance? I couldn't find any second chances in scripture once someone died.

I think it is refering to a victorious proclamation made by Jesus to those spirits held in judgement, or, prison. Not that, He went to them and forgave them of their original rejection in Noah's day and now, after the atonement, they were excused for that rejection and their not responding to the warning given by Noah on behalf of God.

Thanks for the link. I will surely take a look at that!





[edit on 19-2-2008 by jdposey]

reply to post by jdposey


Take note about Noah and the Sodom story they went to their destruction. Not eternal torture. In the OT if you ever see the word hell it should read "the grave" from the Hebrew sheol.

You know it's clear that there is judgment and your position in Christ is what determines the outcome of that judgment. The parable of the wheat from the tares. the sheep and the goats, are fine examples. It makes universal salvation hard to accept. Perhaps unsaved are simply dead - no more - to be forgotten. In light of eternity, life on earth will fade from view.

Big Whammy...You are absolutely correct about the confusion regarding the way sheol, hades, & gehenna is translated.

Another scripture that comes to mind showing the true condition of the dead is Ecl 9:5.

King James Version (KJV)
5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

The dead are not conscious of anything. They are dead, plain & simple.

Adam & Eve were not threatened with the punishment of a burning firery hell for their disobedience, but simply death. Adam knew what death was by observing the animals and plants.




[edit on 20-2-2008 by Sparky63]

Translators have allowed their personal beliefs to color their work instead of being consistent in their rendering of the original-language words. For example:

(1) The King James Version rendered she’ohl′ as “hell,” “the grave,” and “the pit”; hai′des is therein rendered both “hell” and “grave”; ge′en·na is also translated “hell.”

(2) Today’s English Version transliterates hai′des as “Hades” and also renders it as “hell” and “the world of the dead.” But besides rendering “hell” from hai′des it uses that same translation for ge′en·na.

(3) The Jerusalem Bible transliterates hai′des six times, but in other passages it translates it as “hell” and as “the underworld.” It also translates ge′en·na as “hell,” as it does hai′des in two instances. Thus the exact meanings of the original-language words have been obscured.

Sometimes it feels like religion is just a 2000 year game of telephone. Something was whispered into someones ear 2000 years ago and it is a FAR CRY from what we are whispering now.

The Hebrew she’ohl′ and its Greek equivalent hai′des, which refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the common grave of dead mankind; also the Greek ge′en·na, which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction.

Further evidence of this can be seen from the fact that righteous people when they die are in sheol or hades.

For instance we can refer to the righteous man Job:
He said,"

Job 14:13, Dy: “[Job prayed:] Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell,* and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt remember me?”

God himself said that Job was “a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad.”—Job 1:8.) (*“The grave,” KJ; “the world of the dead,” TEV; “Sheol,” AS, RS, NE, JB, NW.)

So Job sked that he be protected in sheol. Why would he go there?
simple: Because it is the common grave of mankind. Not a place of torture for the wicked.

reply to post by Sparky63



I set this particular search engine up (Below Link) with the word FIRE in it and if you access the link, it will show the New Testament scriptures that have the word "FIRE" within them. I encourage anyone to examine this link.

I don't expect you or anyone else to comment on the multiple verses listed from that engine search, but, I was wondering if within any of those New Testament scriptures, do you see how easy it is to get the impression, by way of scripture, regarding a literal hell fire? Within the concept of judgement, as is provided by some of these scriptures, it seems fire is tied closely to that final judgement.

There are 79 scriptures listed.

bible1.crosswalk.com... =2


[edit on 20-2-2008 by jdposey]

reply to post by jdposey


You are right - Jesus talked about fire and Gehenna a lot. I completely understand why people think of a firey place. It is deadly serious business we discuss.

I would like to show something I've come to believe and why. I will use one of the scriptures you listed on that page. Mat 25:41

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

We see this place in Revelations 20:10 as the Lake of Fire

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Notice the devil and his angels will tormented there are no people in the Lake of Fire. The dead (people) haven't even been judged yet. They are waiting in Hades.

Rev 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Hades gets thrown in the Lake of Fire - so it cannot be the same place. Notice in this instance the Lake of Fire is the second death. Not eternal torment. What this tells me is the judgment is death, plain and simple. Unless there is some extended grace not mentioned here, it seems like atheist's get exactly what they believed in after all - death.

It was on my heart to tackle this topic because as younger man I was not a believer. "Fire and Brimstone" style S. Baptist preachers were my one of my main obstacles. So many people are run away from the Gospel because of fear based preaching. IMO people should see the Christian life as a step up and be attracted to it. You don't have to check your brain at the door.

Originally posted by jdposey
I have been to Israel and there is a location called the Gates of Hell (pictured on link). Jesus also refered to the Gates of Hell:

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18)

i257.photobucket.com...

[edit on 14-2-2008 by jdposey]

Kinda funny you're talking about the "Gates of Hell" and then the picture shows a bunch of people take tours of it... People are definately interesting... Honestly I might want to look at it too, but something makes me think it wouldn't be a good idea. Curiosity killed the human

Those in sheol and hades have the hope of the ressurection, since sheol & hades refer to the common grave of mankind.

This is where Jesus' friend Lazarus was at before Jesus brought him back to life. He was not in a fiery hell or in heaven. He was dead in the grave.
That is why Jesus told his followers that Lazarus was sleeping, when he knew all along that he was actually dead. No conscious thout, no agony, no pain, no knowledge of what was happening around him.

Lazarus's condition is accurately described a Ecl 9:5.


The 2nd death is reserved for those subject into Gehenna. This is not eternal agony, torment....ect. It is death for which the possibility of ressurection does not exist.
Simply a state of nonexistance. This is the condition reseverved for Satan, the demons, and the pharasees who knowingly worked against Gods purpose.

The pharases were condemned to Gehenna because of their wickedness.

(Matthew 23:15) 15 “Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one YOU make him a subject for Ge·hen′na twice as much so as yourselves.

From this we can plainly see that Gentiles who converted to the Pharisaic sect of Judaism were very reprehensible. Some of them may previously have had God’s disapproval, but on becoming Pharisees, they became doubly disapproved, certainly headed for destruction in Gehenna.

Not eternal torment, but deth for which there is no chance of a ressurection.

reply to post by Sparky63


You hit the nail on the head brother. Good job.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy



I am a Christian. I believe the concept of eternal damnation to be an invention from the same minds that came up with indulgences. To control the population with fear.

That has been my stance on the issue for quite some time. I don't know this God that is going to cast people into some fire, for he resides not within me. The only God I know is the one of love and forgiveness.

reply to post by Sparky63


We've come to exactly the same conclusion, that is reassuring. Thanks for your input!

reply to post by Bigwhammy

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? (Romans 11:15)

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (II Corinthians 5:19)

I have always considered that we have limited knowledge, to the full extent of how far reaching the work of God through Jesus Christ on the cross was and, is. An aspect I have been aware of, is the fact, that where sin abounds, grace will always abound even more. I don't know how many people actually realize that. Many think Paul’s statement might invoke one to sin, hence, that is why he responded himself to the idea, “God forbid." What is clear, Paul is saying, Sin will NEVER overcome Grace. Grace will overcome sin. If that is the case, Paul is saying that the work of God through Jesus Christ on the Cross will never be outdone or overcome by anything or anyone. God will have the final victory through Jesus Christ. What I am implying through all of this is, I truly believe the scope of Salvation and the work of God through Jesus on the cross is greater and far more reaching than we might perceive on this side of eternity (flesh).

As for Hell and that being a literal fire, place of eternal torment, as I have stated in other places, as far as the believer is concerned, in my opinion, that should not be a concern. I think I mentioned to you, Bigwhammy, in a u2u correspondence, that I have always found it interesting that in all of Paul's letters to the church, this subject never entered his thoughts, or, at least did not surface in his letters. Does that have any implication on the matter, since it was Paul who penned the greatest part of the New Testament? I don’t know? However, you will find Paul warning the believers and saying, “...will not...can not....inherit the kingdom of God.” this being spoken to those who are manifesting the works of the flesh. (Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like.)





[edit on 20-2-2008 by jdposey]

I can't remember where I got this quote but thought this is a good place to post it again in lieu of this thread. Actually, I will post 2.

The Doctrine of Perdition is spiritual poison. It's freakish demands on logic and the heart creates of it an idol that bonds men in worship of its image. It forces you away from God into a sort of anti-utopian Neverland that distorts your ability to love and condemns the heart to a sort of slavery that is the true hell on earth. It insidiously plants the seed of supremacism (also called pride), the greatest of carnal evils -- the idea that you are better, more righteous than your brother, and deservedly so. The idea that you have won some kind of sadistic divine contest, and have the right to "rejoice with the saints" at the torment of lesser souls. It is the most vile and despicable kind of doctrine, designed to control rather than liberate. It is the greatest lie ever told.

And the 2nd, just as good.

For so it was ordained between God and man from all eternity, that Man should be God, and God, Man, neither without the other; that is, as God Himself is, and will be, the Paradise, garden, tabernacle, mansion, house, temple, and Jerusalem of man, so also was Man created for the same end, that he should be the Paradise, garden, tabernacle, mansion, house, temple, and Jerusalem of God; that by this mutual union and friendship of God with Man, and of Man with God, all the wisdom, power, virtue and glory eternally hidden in God should be opened and multiplied. For, God once made all things for Man, but Man for Himself.

reply to post by Astrobee


Those were awesome Astrobee. Thanks. The first one reminds me of comething C.S. Lewis said about pride. "Pride is what made the Devil the Devil".

Pride-->Satan
Humility-->Christ

I just went and got my copy of "Mere Christianity" (should be required reading folks!) by Lewis. The verse everyone uses to say Jesus is the only way is
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Now C.S. Lewis says this,

We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; We do not know that only those who know him can be saved through him.

(Mere Christianity p.64)

In other words you might be a good Buddhist and Father God could emphasize the traits of that religion that are "Christ like" and in spite of your religion you could be saved through Christ.

We can not really say who is and who isn't - The problem is too many Christians think they know and have that pride which is evil.
That is probably the Devils greatest tool against Christ - our pride.

edit to admit that I struggle with it

[edit on 2/21/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by WhiteWash
Each soul in an endless conveyor line. Each soul walks through a wall of ionic flame. Those found lacking have their soul and very essence destroyed by the flame. Those deserving walk through unscathed into heaven, or explore the universe, or meld with God, or whatever other thing you want to think of.

This is essentially the beliefs of Zoroastrianism - one of the first religions to posit a final Judgement day and eternal damnation/salvation.

Originally posted by Lilitu
We wouldn't trust a brain on drugs so why would we trust a brain on death?

Actually, I trust knowledge that people gain from drugs trips. I think entheological information can provide a lot of insight into "truth" that rational, straight-edge minds just can't even cope with. So, I guess I'd be willing to trust information that someone bought back from a NDE. Although, I think all such information (NDE, drugs and so-called "reality") is all encoded through one's internal narrative and metaphors. So, going to hell in an NDE can tell us a lot about what's actually there after death, but probably tells us more about the person tripping.

you cant destroy energy....... Only convert it.... do we become the fires of hell then lol....

hell is like candyland, fun place to talk about but just doesnt hold water... or flame...

nature/god whatever has multiple reasons an purposes for things to be, an rarely has dead ends for those things, but when man gets involved, we create the dead end..... thus forth we created hell......

to think we are here as a never ending test is pretty close to still believing santa leaves u presents..... your purpose of life is to simple experience it.

Nothing more can you do here then experience.... we have a start an a end here an only so much can be done in that time frame, to throw you in hell becuz you fliped your gord or whatever came apon you is a waste of space an time, an nature doesnt waste..... Humans do.

Nice thread.
I used to believe in hell but not because it's Biblical but because of other people's stories. It's important to do your research with the Bible because God wants you to search wide and deep for the truth. Don't just simply read it and assume "that's what it means!" Satan has tried so very hard to stir our beliefs on Jesus, to create confusion, chaos, and therefore to destruct our faith in Him! That's always his goals from the beginning. he is the father of liars and deceptions! If you receive visions... whether of heaven or hell... don't just assume it's biblical for you always have to test it!

I won't give too many scriptures because I really hope that you will search for it yourself. If I tell you, you will remain skeptical. But if you discover it yourself, I believe it'll be a more powerful message for you.

Look at Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Notice that the wages of sin is "death" not eternally punished (they are so very different). If you are not convinced yet, it also says "the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Why is eternal life a gift? Aren't we immortals? Don't we have immortal souls waiting for hell or heaven? Why did God say it's a "gift" specifically... a gift is something that has to be given for we do not have it yet.

Why did God take away the tree of life in Genesis? Why did Jesus say that whoever comes to him, he will offer fruits from the tree of life for eternal life? We were always taught that we were immortals, so why do we need to eat the tree? Why did God say let us take away the tree of life or else they(Adam and Eve) will become like us (immortals). There are 2 trees: trees of knowledge and tree of life! Why did satan deceive us to eat one but not the other? Notice that Satan planned it very very truly well!

If you are not convinced yet... why is there a time when everyone will be resurrected to receive judgment? If people are already in heaven or hell and that means they already receive their judgments, why is there a resurrection of the dead to receive their judments? Resurrection of the dead is one the main messages of Jesus when He came to earth!

Shouldn't David be in heaven because he is a man of God's own heart? Yet Jesus himself said no one has ever been to heaven! And the scripture clearly states where David is! The scripture says that David is still in his grave! Aren't you wondering where Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and all other Biblical people are if No one ever went to heaven except the son of man?

If you believe in eternal punishment of God's own creation (the ones the God truly loves, His own image), you are claiming that God is a failure. But God never failed and never will. You are claiming that God is powerless, letting satan take full control of everything. If you believe that then our God is clearly different. I believe in a all-powerful, all-loving God, ready to receive, heal, and love His lost ones while you believe in the father of deceptions.

I hope it opens your eyes and ears.