Spetsnaz.

in my opinion the spetsnaz are a preatty top flight SF unit. I wouldnt be totally suprised about that lethal injection thing - they beat the sh!t out of recruits in training, and used to make them do low altitude jumps with no shoots!

But as a hostage rescue team, they are not at their best - they are much better in assasination type missions. The SEALs would have done better.

Dont know if you knew, but the Chechans had the entire place rigged with bombs, ready to explode it at the first sound of gunfire..
The way the theatre was designed (obviously) meant there was a big open space, and especially since there were 50 armed terrorists, there was no way in hell you could take out 50 men with no resistance at all...
Gas killed 129 people, the bomb would have killed all 700 hostages and perhaps some more on the outside..
It was better than the alternative

Here's info re, the gas released into the theatre prior to
Go.Go.Go. It knock's u out super quick, depending on how
much u inhale. But u would, have to basically get a severe
o/d 4 it kill u. That is why the terr' cop'd a bullet in the
forehead while 'taking an enforced snooze'.

www.streetdrugs.org...

You cant be 100% sure that is what they used, it was never officially named and speculation ranged

Originally posted by browha
You cant be 100% sure that is what they used, it was never officially named and speculation ranged

Bro', u r right. But if was fen', I can assure u that it 'knocks u out'
in about 5 to 20sec. I know this 4 all the wrong reasons.
Motorcycle in traffic plus idiot driver=wheelie club. The Para'med
gave a athsma like puffer to me that contained fen'... Just think
Pink Floyd,

If they give lethal injections to their comrads they're a bunch of prize tits.

I'd certainly agree though that they're probably a stronger force than the US or UK ones. That probably goes for most forces though. If most forces around the globe had the weapons and technology the UK or US did they'd probably wipe the floor with them.

The soldiers in the wests forces are too used to the easy life, this generation have never had to actually fight for their lives in the worst conditions.

admittedly true, but I think the SBS and SAS are still trained under extremely rigorous conditions and some of their feats still prove their ability
the Spetsnaz's sheer size is the main strength though, something like 10,000+ members.

To answere the original question, try to get hold of a book simply titled 'Spetznaz' by Viktor Sukhorov.

He was a former top ranking GRU Intelligence officer who defected to Britain 20-25 years ago. Spetznaz were often under direct orders from GRU high command.

It should provide you with all sorts of interesting info and an insight to the martial art of 'sambo' - Steven Segal take note!

Lethal injections would destroy any sense of camradarie that is essential to these types of units.

129 hostages died because the Russian authorities would not disclose the type of gas used rendering proper treatment impossible. Spetsnaz did an amazing job on their end. Bureaucracy isn't their specialty.

Even the SAS fear the Spetsnaz, that says something for them, as hte SAS are regarded at hteh best by those who don't dig deap into.

Spetsnaz are the most brutal and best trained of the lot.

SAS Training is the easy life? Sitting in a room for 24 hours with white noise isn't easy at all. That'd drime me insane.

Theatre was'nt a F-UP. If the terrorists saw one man enter the theatre, Kaboom, everyone dies and people on the outside too. They had no choice. It was zero option, it was impossible to enter it and not be detected due to the design. So don't give any "Seals could have done it" stuff please. Spetsnaz are better trained to deal with it, they deal with Terrorists alot, they are right next to Checnya.

WTC is the biggest security blunder about, yes, as the US thought no-one dare attack it due to its strength and size. Only conceivable reason you could ignore that intel. Well, the British intelligence even warned you. As did many other nations. Sorry, but you should realise how dedicated these terrorists are!

Sadly, fighting terror efectivley cannot be done. For every terrorist you kill, you make 2 more.

I have to say, Spetsnaz is pretty dang good. Altough the theatre thing could gone better I think that it was their best option. The bombs could have made it much worse. Now were's that thread by Russian with the Spetsnaz poster...

Ah here it is;
www.abovetopsecret.com...
It's an old thread but it's got some good stuff about Spetsnaz if you're looking for info on them. Plus heres that poster Russian found;
img5.imageshack.us...
Pretty good.

EDIT: found the link I was looking for.

[edit on 2/27/2005 by cyberdude78]

Originally posted by fritz
To answere the original question, try to get hold of a book simply titled 'Spetznaz' by Viktor Sukhorov.

He was a former top ranking GRU Intelligence officer who defected to Britain 20-25 years ago. Spetznaz were often under direct orders from GRU high command.

It should provide you with all sorts of interesting info and an insight to the martial art of 'sambo' - Steven Segal take note!

Victor Sukhorov is a running joke. His books are more like fiction than fact. So you can take pretty much anything he says in his books as BS.

Originally posted by SE7EN
dont you mean (729) +50 heavily armed terrorists that are holding hostages would count as a success -129 hostages died - apparently killed by the very gas that was meant to save them not good in my eyes if they did't rush they could have saved them all but hey they did the best they could

Far as i understand now later on, Spetnaz just secured area, the doctors who were meant to get anti-medicine and so on screwed up as they calculated the gas effect + anti-medicine wrong, so in the end Spetnaz just secured area and finished "terrorists" + after tryid to save best of their ability those not so healthy hostages. So it was not much used battle gas that saved situation, but wasnt fully prepared its after effects and that lead to fiasco, can you really blame Spetnaz for it?

"there that good they proberly made the biggest fup in special forces history" SE7EN

The decision to use the gas came from higher rank then of spetsnaz commander. If it was our forces (ours being US Delta), we would have waited and resulted in 800 deaths in the bomb explosion. Much like when Russians waited and what happened in Beslam. Maybe you didn’t read the part where the Russians sniped about 10 to 20 people running toward the main bomb to detonate it. Or didn’t realize that they saved hundreds. Either way read, or better think before you speak.

Spetsnaz? Too Brutal? Spetsnaz is brutality itself. They will give you a lethal injection if you are wounded and delaying the operations. A man for them is nothing more than a tool. Read the works by Viktor Suorov.

Spetsnaz also interrogate their own prisoners, poor them...

Originally posted by necro99
Spetsnaz? Too Brutal? Spetsnaz is brutality itself. They will give you a lethal injection if you are wounded and delaying the operations. A man for them is nothing more than a tool. Read the works by Viktor Suorov.

Spetsnaz also interrogate their own prisoners, poor them...

It is widely known that Suvarov is at best loose with the truth and at worst just plain makes things up. If his books are what people are basing their opinions on then you have been sadly misinformed.

Originally posted by John Nada
If they give lethal injections to their comrads they're a bunch of prize tits.

I'd certainly agree though that they're probably a stronger force than the US or UK ones. That probably goes for most forces though. If most forces around the globe had the weapons and technology the UK or US did they'd probably wipe the floor with them.

The soldiers in the wests forces are too used to the easy life, this generation have never had to actually fight for their lives in the worst conditions.

What a complete load of BS, you my frined are an ignoramus.

US special forces are fighting for their lives everyday unlike the Spetznaz who seem to sit on thier ass and extort poor Chechans.

Elite MY ASS :LOL:

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why they think the Spetznaz are so good. There hasn't been a single decent argument put forward jst ridiculous opinions.

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by fritz
To answere the original question, try to get hold of a book simply titled 'Spetznaz' by Viktor Sukhorov.

He was a former top ranking GRU Intelligence officer who defected to Britain 20-25 years ago. Spetznaz were often under direct orders from GRU high command.

It should provide you with all sorts of interesting info and an insight to the martial art of 'sambo' - Steven Segal take note!

Victor Sukhorov is a running joke. His books are more like fiction than fact. So you can take pretty much anything he says in his books as BS.

I'm just interested if you can mention a book that is reliable. Because every single book anyone has ever mentioned about special forces has never been "reliable" enough for you and you slag off all these books without any backup. Time to see some from you now. Got any books to reccommend or links to have a look at concerning the reliablity of these books? Or even better how about a book that is considered reliable. Cause all you ever do is slag off every non-US SF without any backup.

[edit on 7/3/05 by D]

the yanks can't help themselves - they are the best, no matter what the topic and no one even comes close.

For example they take the piss here out of the Russians who saved maybe one in seven hostages from that theatre. Sure, it SEEMS like a failure if you watch American movies, but tell me again how many hostages Delta rescued from Iran? What's that, none? Surely you must be mistaken?

The fact is Americans can't accept that any nation could be as good or better than their own, and that results in fiascos like the Iran hostage rescue or the current Iraq war.

I have one thing to say - have the Americans won any "conflict" since WWII? Grenada or Panama maybe, but what else?

Originally posted by Karmakaze


I have one thing to say - have the Americans won any "conflict" since WWII? Grenada or Panama maybe, but what else?

Umm let me think hmmm.... How about the most lopsided victory in modern History 1991 the Gulf War. Iraq just happened to be the 4th largest army in the world at the time.

The real question is when has Russia won any conflict since WW2. The last major conflict they had Afghanistan ended with them running home with their tails between their legs, and they were fighting a bunch of goat herders with some stinger missiles.