the Masonic Medical Research Laboratory (MMRL) and the M-Cell

Originally posted by LightinDarkness


The last thing any serious masonic science endeavor needs is to begin incorporating esoteric gnostic practices into its research. It would quickly become the laughing stock of peer reviewed science and would provide even more ammo for tin-foil hat conspiracy theorists.

I would have to disagree because if the symbols were orininally intended to conceal esoteric Gnostic doctrines, we would be in error interpreting them any other way. I'm not necessarily saying they were intended so, but we can't dismiss it out of hand.

In the 19th century, Masonic scholars often pushed the mystic interpretation. In the last century, they tended to be more rationalistic, and much less focused on occultism, to the point where any deeper esoteric spiritual meanings were ignored, and as you said, even became a laughing stock.

But more recent Masonic scholarship has become more balanced. Brethren such as Hutchens and Tresner here in the USA and Jackson in the UK have shown that esoteric mysticism was indeed incorporated into Masonic symbolism early on, and the subject is not as hokey as Coil and several others would have us believe.

For example, in 1638, almost a century before the first Grand Lodge was founded, a poem appeared in a London publication that contained the lines "For we be brethrene of the Rosie Crosse; we have the Masons Word and Seconde Sighte". This is a very example of a link between Freemasonry and Rosicruciansim, only a decade after the Fama and Confessio were first published.

reply to post by Masonic Light


I can assure you if the MMRL began going to journals like Nature and telling them that they now use gnostic symbol magic into their research, they would (1) be laughed out of the academy and (2) would quickly lose any government grants they may have. I know this because I once worked for a grant monitoring arm of the government and that sort of thing would not be tolerated by people receiving federal funds. As you say, it would also requiring proving that the gnostic interpretation is "right", and that can never be proven. In fact, sheer logic about history and culture argues against it.

It is one thing to study esoteric practices as part of research in religion or philosophy - it is another thing to do it in the pursuit of scientific endeavors. I know people don't like that, but it is simply reality.

Originally posted by LightinDarkness

It is one thing to study esoteric practices as part of research in religion or philosophy - it is another thing to do it in the pursuit of scientific endeavors. I know people don't like that, but it is simply reality.

But we weren't talking about physics; we were talking about Masonic symbolism, which *does* fall within the boundaries of religion and philosophy. I know people don't like that, but it is simply reality.



[edit on 19-12-2007 by Masonic Light]

reply to post by Masonic Light


Actually, we were talking about incorporating masonic symbolism and gnostic magic into scientific research.

I have no problem with the study of gnosticism, as long as it is under its appropriate banner - philosophy or religion. And as long as it is secular study. This non-profit is not doing research in those areas.

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
I can assure you if the MMRL began going to journals like Nature and telling them that they now use gnostic symbol magic into their research, they would (1) be laughed out of the academy and (2) would quickly lose any government grants they may have. I know this because I once worked for a grant monitoring arm of the government and that sort of thing would not be tolerated by people receiving federal funds.

And that is precisely one of the main problems with the devil's "civilization".

Putting everything into neat little compartments which do not correspond to reality the majority of the time.


How can one intrinsically separate Science and Religion, as if they are independent of each other?

SEBEK

METU NETER Vol.1, Pgs. 230-233

Sebek is the name given to the planet mercury by the Egyptians during the Greco-Roman time. Earlier it was called “Sebku.” In astrology, mercury is styled as “the messenger of the gods.” This is because it corresponds to the language verbalizing centers – Broca and Wernicke – that are located in the left hemisphere of the cerebrum. We must take note of the fact that all of our other faculties are only able to communicate sensations and images. Verbal thinking is a process of putting into verbal form (informing) what is felt, imaged or already known nonverbally. This will become very clear if you were to practice clipping your thoughts as soon as they begin to appear. You will realize that even though you suppressed the completion of the sentence or paragraph, you are still able to know what the words were going to indicate. This is because the knowledge of what you clothe in thoughts precede the mental verbalization of such knowledge. Sebek translates these nonverbal messages into words. If the names, definitions, and logical activities concerning these nonverbal messages are in harmony with reality then the “way is open for the indwelling intelligence to extend its operations to the outer – career, marriage, etc. – part of our lives.” Otherwise, it is closed.

It is important to note that Western psychologists have overrated the value of this faculty, obviously for the fact that it is the foundation of their technological and commerce oriented culture. Their unqualified statement that it corresponds to language cannot be accepted. To be precise, it corresponds to verbalizing aspects of language. It does not have the ability to process meaning (to understand) which is the function of the right side of the brain, a fact that suggests how, and why the left side of the brain is the chief source of mischief in the world. Long before Western scientists even suspected about the dualization of the brain, the Kabalistical tradition had an extensive knowledge about it. Quoting from the Zohar in the Kabbalah Unveiled, S. L. MacGregor Mathers states that....:

© Ra Un Nefer Amen

Of course Sebek in It's Solar aspect, is an aspect of our Being; or "our particular intimate Jesus Christ" which is the Solar Astral Body.

reply to post by Tamahu


And yet again that is your opinion, and is not backed up by anything except your faith.

I agree that science and religion should not be separated, but on (obviously) completely different grounds than gnostic quotes.

OK then.

On what grounds do you believe that Science and Religion should not be separated?

reply to post by Tamahu


It doesn't really matter, since it would also be based on faith. While I believe my faith is the absolute truth, as I am sure you do, I do not advocate that others follow my belief system just because I think it is true.

Gnosis is based on Faith, yes. But not blind-faith.

True Faith is realized through practical work, and study; and therefore Gnosis encompasses both Religion and Science.

It is not a mere sect. It is at the foundation of all Science and Religion.


Most contemporary materialistic "scientists" are almost as do gmatic as the Roman Catholic Inquisitioners themselves were.

Originally posted by forestlady
Scientists, this is absolutely amazing and wonderful. THanks for the info. There are so many charitable things that the Masons do. I've heard they contribute $1 million dollars a day to charities. Who else can make that claim? I've known many Masons and have been impressed by them all, which makes sense, as spiritual development are at the heart of the Masons, as I understand it.

I love that they have their own research lab, free from govt. interference, propaganda and influence.

I also love that in the Masons, it is a good place for men to meet other men and discuss spiritual growth among themselves; I believe it is something that has long been missing from our U.S. culture and is a dire necessity for men to learn how to bond and interact with other men about spiritual topics they otherwise wouldn't talk about. I think they are a wonderful group and I have tremendous admiration and respect for the Masons.

I cannot help but think that this is a contrived post. It is simply too icky and sweet. Every sentence lauds the Masons...it reeks of being disingenuous and promoting the Masons. I have no doubt that the poster is a Mason or the wife of one. I betcha..I am a pretty savvy reader, and this is just too much of a multi-pointed promotion of Masonic ' values ' to be accidental. Maybe I am on the cautios side, but this seems like a ' gimme 'from a Mason admirer that goes a bit overboard. Just my take..

reply to post by Tamahu


Sorry, I disagree. It is blind faith, as all religion is.

As to the above poster - LOL, why do I not see you being savvy about all the OBVIOUS posts by anti-masons that use every line to blast the masons as some satanic cabal without proof?

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
Sorry, I disagree. It is blind faith, as all religion is.

Believe what you want; but that blatantly contradicts your stated belief that religion and science should not be separated.

reply to post by Tamahu


Not at all. Fits quite well actually, since all science except that science which observers phenomena happening in real time, is based on blind faith

reply to post by eyewitness86




Interesting.. Let us see what SHE has to say about this.

Some people are just down right rude.

reply to post by LightinDarkness



How can religion and science be conciled if one is based on mere superstition(blind-faith), and the other is not?

It would be pointless.



As a Freemason, you may learn from the following words of Albert Pike:

(You might scroll down to what is highlighted in yellow)



GRAND SCOTTISH KNIGHT OF ST. ANDREW


KNIGHT OF THE EAST AND WEST

Albert Pike:


"At the bottom of magic, nevertheless, was science, as at the bottom of Christianity there was love; and in the Evangelic Symbols we see the incarnate WORD adored in its infancy by three magi whom a star guides (the ternary and the sign of the microcosm), and receiving from them gold frankincense, and myrrh; another mysterious ternary, under the emblem whereof are allegorically contained the highest secrets of the Kabala.

Christianity should not have hated magic; but human ignorance always fears the unknown. Science was obliged to conceal itself, to avoid the impassioned aggressions of a blind love."

[edit on 19-12-2007 by Tamahu]

reply to post by Tamahu


It would be odd, if your statement were true. Unfortunately for you though, I believe that science is also based on blind faith, except in circumstances where the object being studied is directly observable and measurable (which is not often). Same thing for religion.

You could also benefit with some words from Albert Pike:

"So, when the equipoise of Reason and Faith, in the individual or the Nation, and the alternating preponderance cease, the result is, according as one or the other is permanent victor, Atheism or Superstition, disbelief or blind credulity; and the Priests either of Unfaith or of Faith become despotic."
- Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma

You should also know that just because I'm a mason does not mean that I - nor any other mason - finds the words of Pike to be true. He is a philosopher, and I am free to agree or disagree with whatever he writes, as he is not the single authority of all masonry. I feel like we've been over this before...we have.

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
You could also benefit with some words from Albert Pike:


"So, when the equipoise of Reason and Faith, in the individual or the Nation, and the alternating preponderance cease, the result is, according as one or the other is permanent victor, Atheism or Superstition, disbelief or blind credulity; and the Priests either of Unfaith or of Faith become despotic."
- Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma

Are you saying that this contradicts what I've been saying?


Anyhow, it seems that you only believe in the physical-senses, and that I "believe" that both noumenon and physical-phenomenon can be verified through direct scientific experience, also known as Gnosis, Illuminism, Occult Science, etc.




[edit on 19-12-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by eyewitness86

 

Interesting.. Let us see what SHE has to say about this.

Some people are just down right rude.

No, I am not a Mason (you should know this because of my name "Forestlady" and the fact that women are not Masons) nor am I married to one. I was simply saying that I have great respect for Masons. I am sad that you have such a deep level of cynicism that you cannot take my words at face value. It says far more about you than about me.

reply to post by Tamahu


LOL. I can say no more, if you believe that you can verify your beliefs in the manner you think. All you can do is point towards books where philosophers claim that X or Y is true - gee, same as any other faith. That you want it to be verifiably true does not mean it is.

You are still under the assumption that Occult Science is based on mere belief.

And if you have no intention of investigating it for yourself, then don't.


But I'm still completely dumbfounded as to how anyone could separate Masonry from it's Occult symbols.

What is it that would motivate a Freemason to still, in this day and age, try to hide the fact that Masonry's symbols all conceal, and reveal, Occult principles?

Why deny that the Masonic tradition is based on the Rosicrucian tradition, which in turn has inherited the Science related to the Caduceus/Uraeus?


I'm not asking you to prove that all of this is, or is not true.

I only ask that it is at least considered, instead of giving the usual sarcastic responses(I'm not referring to ML here; or yourself necessarily LiD, as you've been relatively respectful).




[edit on 20-12-2007 by Tamahu]