Demonizing Socialized Health Care Again? or more truth?

Once a proud supporter of Canada’s social safety net, Heather Cook now wouldn’t mind seeing a little more free-market competition in her country. Maybe then she wouldn’t have to wait over a year to take her son to the doctor’s office.
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I am the mother of a child with asthma. When my son had difficulty breathing randomly through the winter, I sought treatment. First I made an appointment with my doctor (2 week waiting time) so I could obtain a referral to a specialist. (In Canada you cannot just go to a specialist, you must get a referral from the gatekeepers: family doctors. Oh, and about 5 million Canadians don’t have one of those.) It took about six weeks for the specialist to get back to me with how long I’d have to wait for my son’s appointment: 12 months. Did I mention that periodically he couldn’t breathe?

Canadian Brand Socialism - Failing the Sick and Poor

A few more examples of why socialized health care is not going to live up to the hype. This time written by a Canadian about Canada's healthcare system. Those of you who are proponents of socialized healthcare better be good and ready to wait, wait, wait should it ever happen.

I included the section on the child with asthma because it hit home with me. About six months ago, my 5 yr. old son woke his mother and I up in the middle of the night because he could hardly breathe. We immediately ran him to emergency for treatment and had an appointment with our family doctor the next morning to discuss the issue. Since then it has happened twice more and we now have the ability to take care of him at home. I can only imagine the stress and worry I'd have if I was still waiting for an appointment to find out why my son occasionally can't breathe and how I could prevent him from the suffering that comes with it.

Having said that, as in the past, I'm against the government's involvement in our healthcare system.

Yes, the Canadian Health Care System does have it's problems. But, on the whole, I would take the Canadian system every time.

I am an American who now lives in Canada (I married a Canadian and I am a legal landed immigrant). I have experienced both systems -- the Canadian Health Care System and the system as it was "played" in the US (Michigan). Give me an Ontario Health Insurance Plan card....you can have my Blue Cross Card!

The most important aspect of the Canadian plan is that you can see a doctor regardless of your income. It simply does not cost you anything "out of pocket". That means the poorest member of society can see a doctor.

I remember living in the states and I would avoid going to the doctor for a cold simply because I didn't want to dish out fifty bucks for the office visit. In Canada, I simply call up my doctor and I'm typically in his office by the next day!

I know that this might sound simplistic but just think of all of those people in the States who cannot go to see a doctor for a simple cold because they can't afford it! In Canada, my relationship with my doctor is a proactive one. I see him on a regular basis to maintain and improve my health. I don't have to wait to see him just when I'm sick....I see him to remain healthy and to become healthier!

In Canada, I have received CAT scans, MRI's and all of the typical treatments that one would receive in the United States. There is no difference!

Of course, one can always find extreme examples to demonize the Canadian system just like I can also find extreme examples of poor medical care in the US. These sorts of things do happen in both countries.

The one area that Canada -- Ontario in particular -- has had difficulties with in recent years in a "doctor and nurse" shortage. This shortage is partly because of recruitment from the states for Drs and RNs. To stave off shortages of health care workers in the states, active recruitment with large financial incentives were made which, in effect, lured many professionals from Canada. This situation is being rectified in Canada. Now, with the Canadian dollar being at par or better, I'm sure that the situation will improve all that more.

We're doing competitive in Britain again now, had been a bust up between the parties, but now they agree. You can cart anyone to a hospital nearby that is cheaper, but it can still be universally free at the point of use.

Clearly it is your fault that your son has this condition. Perhaps if you were a better parent, or had decided to breed with someone with better genetics, or if you kept your house cleaner, this wouldn't be a problem. Everyone knows that asthma is easily preventable with a little SELF RESPONSIBILITY. Therefore you deserve every $700 emergency room bill, every insurance hike, and all the cost of those pricey inhalants your son needs. If you weren't such a bad, irresponsible person, your son would be healthy and you wouldn't be saddled with the expense!

[/conservative]

Sorry, that was semi-serious sarcasm.

Has anyone claimed that Canada's health care system is flawless? I mean aside from conservatives who are being sardonic. No - no system is going to be flawless. But you know what? Our private "free market" system here in the states is WORSE for the poor and sick. It exploits those who are often in the most need or the worst conditions.

reply to post by The Walking Fox

I was relieved to see you were being sarcastic. The first part of that post didn't sound like you at all!

Yes, let's dump the idea of socialized medicine for fear someone who doesn't "deserve" it will benefit!

It's easy to dismiss something on the grounds that it isn't perfect. Nobody, in all the discussions on ATS, has ever claimed that universal health care would be flawless, with no problems at all. It's just the best idea anyone's come up with so far.

The rest has been said already.

The horrors!

Oh, my goodness gracious. Someone in Canada couldn't breathe.

Nevermind the millions that got healthcare that now DON'T in AmeriKa.

Viva la Glaxo. (By the way, what are they paying posters now?)

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
Yes, the Canadian Health Care System does have it's problems. But, on the whole, I would take the Canadian system every time.

The one area that Canada -- Ontario in particular -- has had difficulties with in recent years in a "doctor and nurse" shortage. This shortage is partly because of recruitment from the states for Drs and RNs. To stave off shortages of health care workers in the states, active recruitment with large financial incentives were made which, in effect, lured many professionals from Canada. This situation is being rectified in Canada. Now, with the Canadian dollar being at par or better, I'm sure that the situation will improve all that more.

Thanks much for your post. It's great to hear about the experience of somebody who has been a part of both systems.

The thing that I don't understand is that for every positive story I hear, such as yours, I hear a negative one to go with it. Does the quality of care vary geographically or what?

Socialized Medicine is the red herring of this election.

If you think about it, you know the real downfall of man.

Socialized roads.

The Feds and State are right there, at the end of your driveway.

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure Tancredo is against it.

VOTE CRAZY '08!

I'm a Canadian and I carry an OHIP card on me at all times.
I don't need to wait for service when I need it, and never have.

I called my doctor on Tuesday for an appointment, I then saw my doctor on Thursday. I need to see a specialist for this issue so my doctor has referred me to another doctor. I see the specialist next Wednesday.

Last year I had chest pains that were very frightening.
They came to my house and picked me up in an ambulance, ran a bunch of tests at the emergency room, and got me fixed up.

A few years back I got ill while on vacation. I was put on a plane and flown back to Ontario so that my doctor could care for me and spent a month in hospital.

All this excellent service was provided without charge and without waiting.
Socialized health care seems to work just fine for me.

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
The thing that I don't understand is that for every positive story I hear, such as yours, I hear a negative one to go with it. Does the quality of care vary geographically or what?

Yes, though I can't speak authoritatively on this, it would seem that there are some geographic areas where there are severe doctor shortages. For example, in the North, less populated regions of Canada, there are doctor "shortages". But this is also the case in the United States as well. Fewer and fewer young doctors are choosing to establish their practices in rural or remote regions.

And, yes, there are also doctor shortages in some urban areas of Canada as well. I live in London, Ontario. London is an urban center between Toronto and Windsor/Detroit. Currently there is a doctor shortage here. In fact, I was without a "family practitioner" myself for about a year. Nevertheless, I was never without ready access to health care in all of that time because of a well-established system of "walk-in" clinics. The clinics maintain medical records which are readily accessible to the treating physician. Again, it is nice to have a family doctor but it is still a nicety that can be done away with when compared to the necessity for cost effective health care that is available to everyone.

One other item that I would like to address is that of accessing "specialists". Regardless of the country, typically all "specialists" require referrals. In my own case, I have had numerous referrals to "specialists" -- neurologists -- for migraine headaches. Yes, a referral to a "specialist" can take some time but I have experienced similar wait times when I lived in the United States.
Again, the big difference came when it was time to leave the office. In the States I had to 'ante' up and write a check for the services I was provided (even though I had excellent health insurance). In Canada, I just say "good-bye" and "thanks" as I leave the office.

I don't think that for profit HMOs really have the benefit of the patient in mind.

You can try and demonize universal health care by calling it "socialized" if you want, but currently my health insurance is my largest out of pocket expense, being self employed. More than my mortgage, fuel, food, booze put together.

I still have to wait longer than Canadians for an appointment.

The candidate with the greatest health plan gets my vote, Regardless of being Democrat, Republican, Libertarian or Green.



It's MY economy stupid! Selfinterest, you bet!!!

[edit on 21-1-2008 by whaaa]

[edit on 21-1-2008 by whaaa]

Originally posted by whaaa

The candidate with the greatest health plan gets my vote, Regardless of being Democrat, Republican, Libertarian or Green.

I think that's the only way you can change the major health care problem you have in your country. It's just sad that billions can be spent on fighting and killing, foreign aid programs, bank bailouts, etc....
Yet a small child that is sick in your own country can't get proper treatment.

Shame on the American government for treating the citizens like worthless garbage. :shk: