How many people believe in DULCE Base ??

Sorry if this has been posted before, I'm kinda new here I was reading more about the DULCE base conspiracy today, and also watched the video of Phil Schneider (who MYSTERIOUSLY died after a couple months if I remember) its on YouTube which is a one hour and eleven minute video :O I seriously recommend watching it if you haven't before. But also, I just was very curious to find out how many people believe in this conspiracy? It seems so possible doesn't it when you consider all the facts.. I mean, how many damn people have been kidnapped in Mexico and New Mexico, how many people have claimed to see a UFO in those regions as well as other places in the world. How many people have claimed to been abducted?? So I just wanted to find out how many people believe Phil Schneider when he spoke... and seriously.... WHY on earth would he just come up, speak for 1hr and 11 minutes, what can he gain? He certainly didn't gain anything besides death the poor guy. You can tell when people lie, and easily tell when they are telling the truth, and I believe every thing he says, unless some one can prove me totally wrong. I would like to debate about it. Anyways I don't want to rant on, here is the video if you have time to watch.
(check this site too) www.philschneider.org...

Originally posted by MASH_DADDY It seems so possible doesn't it when you consider all the facts..

But theres your first problem. There are no facts. If youve done your research you will find almost the entire thing was constructed and embellished by one.John Lear from a story he found, who, I suspect, saw it as a big chance to make a name for himself in the UFO field.

I mean, how many damn people have been kidnapped in Mexico and New Mexico,

How many people have been kdinapped (your words not mine) all over the world? but that doesnt point to undergound bases or Alien encounters.

how many people have claimed to see a UFO in those regions as well as other places in the world.

See above, same analogy, same explanation

How many people have claimed to been abducted??

How many people are attention seeking or jumping on the bandwagon or have psychological problems. There are many many reasons people claim those things, however, there has yet to be one scrap of proof that any of them actually happened

So I just wanted to find out how many people believe Phil Schneider when he spoke... and seriously.... WHY on earth would he just come up, speak for 1hr and 11 minutes, what can he gain?

He can gain money for writing books, for public appearances, for publicity, notoriety. I mean even John Lear doesnt believe Schneoder any more, or is he just annoyed at someone getting on his bandwagon

He certainly didn't gain anything besides death the poor guy. You can tell when people lie,

'You can tell when people lie? I would suggest you take your talents to the local Police or FBI, they could use people like you.

and easily tell when they are telling the truth, and I believe every thing he says, unless some one can prove me totally wrong. I would like to debate about it.

You yourself can prove it its all totally wrong. Look for evidence, hard facts. Just because people come up with plausible stories doesnt make them fact. (One look at Ted Bundy in court should prove that, a great liar)
The only things that exists about Dulce is what people say, fairy stories.
Look around the web, specifically at underground installations and see the logistsics involved of having an underground installatioin of any kind.
The first problem to overcome is heat. Temperature rises as you go underground 5 degrees for every 100 foot I think it is, but I am ready to be corrected, you have to get rid of that heat. Then look at the simpler things, easily identified. The simple logistsics of keepng a lot of people underground, Food, Water, equipment, waste disposal. There would be an enormous amount of traffic generated by the necessity for those things alone. Oh yes, the crackpots will come up with the tunnel theory then, saying its all brought in by underground trains or some such. But sooner or later their credibility is stretched to its limit, the bell will ring in your head and you will think "Its bull#".
Go to Dulce, become an Investigator, talk to the locals, talk to the Indians.
But do it with an open mind, your mind, and not the ideas of those people who would have you believe there is something there, start with your brain as a clean sheet. believe nothing untill its proven or overwhelming evidenece is found to give you a balance of proof.

Oh by the way. Welcome to ATS

First, can I ask you, have you seen this video Chorlton? Please be honest.
By facts I meant "clues" sorry I should of mentioned that, but anyways for some people is too much to handle. Because it simply seems "too out there" to them. Yes people are kidnapped all over the world your right, but Mexico has the highest rate of kidnappings, fine this can be labeled as a "coincidence" if you like or even BS.

you will find almost the entire thing was constructed

Almost? How do you almost construct this all up? Please explain further.

You say John Lear fabricated and embellished the story, did he confess to this? If so I'm not aware. Neither did Bob Lazar which no one has heard of for a while, I don't know whether he made all that area 51 stuff up,

What about the thousands that have been abducted and have come forward, are you saying they ALL have psychological problems and are attention seekers? Have they ALL been proven to be insane?

Let me ask you something... Just because you cannot see the soul or feel or touch it, does that mean it does not exist? You also cannot see an atom with your eye, but its there. Even if facts were to be proven, & hard evidence shown, who do you think would believe it, it would either be covered up extremely well or destroyed. Have you read about the "Marconi Scientists" These men died because they tried to help humanity by revealing the truth and facts. Their own government murdered them because they tried to tell the truth. Exact same thing happened to Phil Schneider, but was sadly covered up just like the others who spoke or tried to anyway.

& What about all the cattle mutilations in that area, with perfect incisions on their carcases? Implants, fetus's being stolen, These aren't classified as evidence? Do lawyers always have hard tangible evidence in court? Sometimes its a matter of words and true belief. And how do you expect people to tell the truth about this? They're ridiculed almost straight away because "they have no evidence".

Heat rises, yes, I agree 100%, even the grey's are with you on that one So could we deny the fact that there are civilizations much much more advanced than ours? Then how can we say that its not possible for them to produce some type of free form of energy to cool or heat? Or to create and maintain complex underground structures? Did we know that 200 years ago there would be air conditioning today?

I think its all possible, and sometimes we may not need overwhelming evidence, its all to do with how we percept it and grasp the reality.
I am definitely interested in going there and finding out for myself, but for now I will save up some cash aswell as some confidence before I go :-)


Thanks for the Welcome

I have never seen Chorlton agree with anything that is not proven by science to be true on this site actually...

I think the video is very interesting and I also think he knew what he was talking about. He knew that there was no way to go through official channels so he tried to get the truth out his way. Then he got murdered.

I do not believe that most aliens are hostile though. There may be some of them that are, but I think the large majority want to help us not destroy ourselfs or the planet.


[edit on 8-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Total bunk, in my opinion. If you stop for a moment and apply logic, common sense and reason you will find the answers. But no bother, people believe what they most want to believe, I guess. And nothing you do or say will convince them otherwise.

Yes exactly, he did know what he was talking about and was so confident! I'm glad some one has seen it, I watched the whole thing, and I don't usually watch lectures like this. I also believe not all aliens are hostile and they try to help us, maybe by signs / symbols that we constantly miss? And just think about this... imagine if America wants to start another war or actually build nuclear/laser weapons in space, and wants to use this as a perfect reason they would have a huge amount of evidence to show the "sheeple" (us) to backup their claims which are actually true! Wouldn't that be a perfect excuse?

Originally posted by MASH_DADDY
First, can I ask you, have you seen this video Chorlton? Please be honest.

Yes I have any probably everything else on Video and in print, and I still come to the same conclusion. Lots of waffle, No evidence.

you will find almost the entire thing was constructed

Almost? How do you almost construct this all up? Please explain further.

Take a read of this fairytale:
thewatcherfiles.com...
Then check out the person who created the Fairytale known as 'The Dulce Papers'
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You say John Lear fabricated and embellished the story, did he confess to this? If so I'm not aware. Neither did Bob Lazar which no one has heard of for a while, I don't know whether he made all that area 51 stuff up,

See the above link where John says he wrote the Dulce papers. All of that and hes never even seen the place? 'Quelle Hombre' eh?
And Bob Lazar, another fantasist who weaves even more fairytales about Element 115

What about the thousands that have been abducted and have come forward, are you saying they ALL have psychological problems and are attention seekers? Have they ALL been proven to be insane?

No but most of them have ulterior motives for saying things. Maybe they ran of with someones wife/husband then found out it didnt work, so they come back and say theve been abducted. Check the facts, all this abduction rubbish started around the same time all the UFO started.

Let me ask you something... Just because you cannot see the soul or feel or touch it, does that mean it does not exist?

In my opinion? Thats correct. It doesnt exist, though John Lear will tell you theres a construction on the moon called a 'Soul Catcher' where your souls go when you die.

You also cannot see an atom with your eye, but its there.

Exactly but we know that it exists because of empirical evidence, science etc. No matter how hard you look you wont find one...single...piece..of tangible evidence of anything below Dulce. Nothing! doesnt that make you think?

Even if facts were to be proven, & hard evidence shown, who do you think would believe it, it would either be covered up extremely well or destroyed.

Why? what makes you think that?

Have you read about the "Marconi Scientists" These men died because they tried to help humanity by revealing the truth and facts.
Their own government murdered them because they tried to tell the truth. Exact same thing happened to Phil Schneider, but was sadly covered up just like the others who spoke or tried to anyway.

But there isnt a scrap of evidence for the former or the later. In Schneiders case he had a heart attack. Oh yes some time after, his wife mysteriously pops up and says it wasnt. I wonder how much they paid her ?.

& What about all the cattle mutilations in that area, with perfect incisions on their carcases? Implants, fetus's being stolen, These aren't classified as evidence? Do lawyers always have hard tangible evidence in court? Sometimes its a matter of words and true belief. And how do you expect people to tell the truth about this? They're ridiculed almost straight away because "they have no evidence".

Try a little lateral thinking please I really shouldnt have to explain everything

Heat rises, yes, I agree 100%, even the grey's are with you on that one

Greys?Oh no. I thought I was having a debate with someone of rational thought here. There are no such things as greys.
If you can prove it then provide evidence.

So could we deny the fact that there are civilizations much much more advanced than ours?

Well yes we could as there is no proof of the existance as yet of any other civilisation outisde of this planet.

Then how can we say that its not possible for them to produce some type of free form of energy to cool or heat? Or to create and maintain complex underground structures?

Well we can say that with absolute certainty as there is no proof of any alien creatures on this planet

I think its all possible, and sometimes we may not need overwhelming evidence, its all to do with how we percept it and grasp the reality.
I am definitely interested in going there and finding out for myself, but for now I will save up some cash aswell as some confidence before I go :-)
Thanks for the Welcome

Everything is possible, but a lot less is probable

My Theory on Dulce is that there is something going on at the place. I highly doubt it is a joint Alien / Human project. I do recall reading somewhere that it is most likely something slightly more mundane (although pretty bad), this being the dumping of toxic waste onto the indian reservation.

But again to be honest how much stock this theory holds is pretty dubious. I will try and find a link to the story I read.

I think Dulce is a great example of an urban ledgend and how they can grow in the age of the world wide web. I actually went to Dulce in 2002 when I was back packing across the states. At the time I had no idea of the infamy the place holds in UFO folklore. I will say that both me and my friend both agreed the area gave us the creeps, but again to be fair I we had been on the road for 2 months and living of fastfood so we were pretty wired!

I mean if the storys are true about the place and all that kind of stuff is really going on then I would seriously heed DarkKnights story and get yourself into a well Isolated cave till the whole things blows over!

Cheers

Paul

It is a very intriguing mystery. Have you read this message from his ex-wife?

Bridas.

An autopsy was performed at the Multnomah County Medical Examiner's
office (in Portland, Oregon) by Dr. Gunson, and she determined that
Philip had committed suicide by wrapping a rubber cathater hose three
times around his neck, and half-knotting it in front. There are
several reasons why I believe that Philip did not commit suicide, but
was murdered:

Wesbite link to message

This is a very intresting read about Dulce.

Nuclear waste at Dulce??

Sorry I know Rense aint the greatest source in the world but I beleive I read the original article on ATS. Norio Hayakawa as got some very well written threads and if your intrested in Dulce they are well worth the time.

Cheers

Paul

I first learned about the supposed Dulce Base years ago, along with the story along with it; involving the supposed firefight on the lower levels between aliens and soldiers, the aliens having camera-like weapons on their chest, or something.

Problem with Dulce is, unlike Area 51, which definitely does exist (although probably not by it's commonly known name and all the attributes assigned to it might not be correct), there is little to no evidence of this base's existence. It is too "hollow" to me.

We need more evidence than just cryptic obscure videos that could have been made in a set.

I have lived within 40 miles of Dulce. Have friends in Dulce, have hiked, fished and played blackjack in the Dulce casino on the Jicarilla reservation and consider myself pretty familiar with the area.

I'm not saying there isn't a base there, but I didn't see any real evidence of one. There is however a huge exploration and storage of oil and natural gas industry there.

When I discussed the base with one of my native American [Jicarilla Apache] friends; his response was "who takes out the trash?"

There may very well be an underground base there, but it is extremely well hidden.

All the high strangeness I experienced was north of Dulce in the San Luis valley of S. Colo.

Do you really think that there are not many more things happening here on this planet unknown to you than known? There are balances and undercurrents unimaginable. Yes indeedie...

I for one respect John for his courage to bring the story to light all those years ago when the battle was much more dangerous than it is today. He had no choice but to go public as public as possible once the wheels were turned.

reply to post by whaaa

When I discussed the base with one of my native American [Jicarilla Apache] friends; his response was "who takes out the trash?"

Maybe they incinerate the trash or they dispose of it through a tunnel system under the base.

Would just like to add the discussion that John Lear has called Phil Schneider everything short of, and including, a liar. I think the difference between the two is that Phil had the guts to go into public and try and educate the masses on what is going on down at Dulce Base. And this cost him his life.

According to Lear, Phil came up with his ideas from the Dulce papers which John Lear had copied from a Dulce insider(later said to be just a work of fiction). So this leaves one question, how come Phil got wacked, but not John? John could possible be one of two things: A) Government insider/disinfo agent B)Full of it. I will go with A)because of his family ties with the government(jet contracts, Boeing, etc). But also B) because I think that Phil was the real deal and well he cant defend himself now can he.

I for one believe that a underground facility at dulce does exsit. I have seen a number of phils videos and read numerous articles about the subject.
Now our government has had a lot a shady dealings like, the whole MK-ULTRA program.
If you were one of these secret government people and you knew there was a secret government installation tha was jointly run by our government and alien beings. Would you or would you not squash any evidence from leaking out? If you let people just walk out of there with information that proves the government has been working with an advanced race to the point of giving them a LARGE facility underground would be enough proof the star a civil war.

I'm sure there have been attempts to smuggle documents and proof out of the base and i'm sure a lot of noble people have lost their lives trying to bring this thing to light. There are so many people who have reported being taken to such a base and many more have claimed to have worked in them.

If there were nothing strange going on, why would so many people be talking about it?

I wouldn't say I believe nor disbelieve the Dulce stories. I know for a fact UFOs are real, my friend thinks he knows for a fact that aliens are real. A lot of other folk think there's a mass alien abduction programme going on. If all these supposed facts are straight, then wouldn't "they" need a base or HQ to work from? Could be anywhere, might be Dulce, and it could be one of many. The question's still open in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure it exists, but I think Phil Schneider is a hoaxer. If you've ever read the Dulce book, there was an altercation which ended up killing 44 scientists and 22 delta force soldiers, and MAYBE 1 alien. If one or two aliens could do all that, do you REALLY think Phil would be able to kill two by himself? In my opinion, Phil made up the story and glorified himself in the process.

Just my .02 cents.

geegee i agree with you. maybe phil was not a part of the dulce wars but there has to be something to the whole thing. if you wanna hear something interesting, go www.theedgeam.com and type into the search james casbolt. another name is hannah billups and take a listen.


one more name is sherry shriner, or just type in underground bases

Originally posted by GeeGee
I'm pretty sure it exists, but I think Phil Schneider is a hoaxer. If you've ever read the Dulce book, there was an altercation which ended up killing 44 scientists and 22 delta force soldiers, and MAYBE 1 alien. If one or two aliens could do all that, do you REALLY think Phil would be able to kill two by himself? In my opinion, Phil made up the story and glorified himself in the process.

Just my .02 cents.

And dont you think if 44 scientists were killed there would be an enormous ruckus made about it. Dont you think the wives/husbands would have made a lot of noise?
The whole thing is a fairytale.