Police caught on tape threatening to destroy and invent evidence

So many of us have encountered this kind of problem. Here in my small town I have been pulled over for no other reason than having long hair (my conclusion). I live close to New Orleans and have heard many stories of police brutality. Hell, my children are even scared of cops. Man this get me upset. Especially knowing we can't do anything about it & it will probably only get worse.
Discouraged, C.O.

Personally, I like to wait for a real downpour (preferably in fall or winter when it is chilly). Then I speed, hoping to get pulled over. It's only happened once, but I only opened my window a tiny crack, and tried not to laugh too much when s-l-o-w-l-y getting out my DL, registration, and insurance card. That was $103 well spent, and I am sure that pig got sick after that half hour in the cold rain.

Originally posted by Dr Love
This event reminded me of a Cops episode where these cops pulled over a pickup truck with three kids wearing togas in the bed. The truck was driving with no lights. The three kids were being initiated into a fraternity. Anyways, the cops try to tell them what they were doing was unsafe not only to themselves, but to other drivers. Each kid sat in there shaking their heads, spouting off to the cops.

I just mentioned that because we all went through the same maturity process and I was just as guilty as the guy in the video when I was his age as far as thinking I knew everything.

I'm not saying the cop was right, maybe he was having a really bad night and then this schmo comes along to top the whole thing off, I don't know, but I can understand it to a degree.

Peace

thats crazy man. The kid did nothing wrong. cops are there to serve us... thats right, to serve us. he was clearly out of line, and if i had that video i would go straight to a lawyer and take this to court. i mean it. Im in a bunch of law classes and you deffinitely have a solid case. and when your in court, point out the way his attitude changes when he finds out there is a camera. also, you said nothing wtong to the cop. u are allowed to ask them why had been pulled over. there are sites out there that teach you how to act around cops. If a cop asked to randomly search me in the street, im allowed to tell him no, not without a permit, tell him he has no prouble cause, that im in a rush, and walk away from him. so yeah, this piece of work needs a reality check, take him off the force.

When i was in high school 15 yrs ago, i was in a history class. our project was to do a report on Hitler, and we could group up with other people in the class.

so me and 4 others (the comedy relief in class) grouped up and made a video with acting scenes and costumes. so we rented a Nazi uniform and i played the part of Hitler.

so long story short (to late) we were searching out locations for a scene. we found a old abandoned dirt road with an old silo in the backround............it was an awesome location for the scene.

i made sure..............i repeat.............I MADE SURE that there were no trespassing signs around and drove around to see if we could find one, and we didnt.

so we unpacked the cameras, costumes, tripods, paper notebooks with our script.............you get the idea.

well an officer of the law, protector of peace pulls up in his cruiser and starts yelling at us for trespassing, so i spoke up and told him that we didnt see any signs posted and that we were doing a project for a history class............i mean c'mon, how could he think we were up to no good with the camera equipment (doing a scene).

well he threatened to "take me in" and i was young enough that i actually thought i would get in trouble. so we went to look for a new location.

we told our teacher and he was upset about it, and we did such a great job with the video that we were given an A+.

i never told my dad cause he would have gone to the department and given them the riot act.

anyway i thought more along the lines of what this topic was about, so i thought id share.

wow the cop is out of line here. he trie to provoke charge to arest him????
he had a bad time with his wife or something.....................sorry but im happy to live in canada rigt now!!! but in short time im going to live in your country wwith my petterbilt truck so im scared of your police lol

Sorry for the long post, but it seems that everyone is stuck on the kid's attitude and other minor details when this is about the law and our rights. I think it is very important that we all know our rights and the laws that govern our day to day affairs. As for me, having a co-worker that teaches about the law on the side sure has helped me understand my role as a citizen. I found this story very interesting, but was saddened with the direction the thread has taken so I decided to post this. So, please bear with me and as you read take a moment to analyze what the laws actually say.

The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution requires that searches and seizures conducted under governmental authority be "reasonable." However, the Bill of Rights only restricts the power of the federal government, but that's why the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the Fourth Amendment is applicable to state governments as well. That's good for us. And the "open fields doctrine" states that the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Furthermore, the Supreme Court has also said that some searches and seizures may violate the Fourth Amendment's reasonableness requirement even if a warrant is supported by probable cause and is limited in scope.

What does all this mean? Well, in plain English, it means you can't be searched or seized without "reasonable" probable cause. And that even then, some of those searches and/or seizures may still be illegal.

For those questioning the kid's questions to the cop, a person has standing (the right) to contest the stop of his car and the search of his person or car. That means you can ask what you did wrong, and they have to tell you the "specific" reason. They also need to have permission by you or a warrant to search your vehicle. However, that does not apply in this case since they did not search the vehicle. Looking through the windows is not considered searching. More on that in a moment. The warrant has to state exactly what it is they are looking for (read above .) That is why they always ask "if" they can search your vehicle( it's easier than getting a warrant.) And yes, you can say "no." They may harass you, but they can't touch your vehicle without a warrant. Some of us would rather stand our ground and for our rights and make them go through the whole process in getting a warrant if they really want to search our vehicles, personal items or even ourselves.

By the way, if a policeman stops you because he had reasonable suspicion of a crime, after confirming that there is no crime, he cannot force you to answer questions about anything else( as this officer did,) such as the possession of contraband. In other words, he can not go fishing for other crimes. In justifying the particular intrusion, the police officer must be able to point to specific and articulable facts which, taken together with rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant the intrusion. However, in this case, the cop was not answering the kid with a "specific" reason for the stop. He actually seemed to have several. And kept changing the reason.

I think we can all agree at least from what the video shows that the kid did not commit a moving violation. The only thing the kid did wrong was not showing his ID instantly when asked. However, the cop did ask for it again, at which point, the kid complied. So, no crime committed. And yes, it is a crime to refuse to identify yourself and that's nation wide not just certain states anymore. To be specific, I believe you have to produce a picture ID now, or at least that is in the works for the law books soon. I have to look that one up.

Anyway, the Court has also approved routine warrantless seizures, for example "where there is probable cause to believe that a criminal offense has been or is being committed." A parked car in a parking lot does not constitute a criminal offense unless there are other facts that lead the officer to believe so. ie. "they follow a prostitute which eventually gets in the parked car." However, the reasons given by the officer has holes all over it. Let's look at the different reasons for the stop by the officer.

Reasons given by the officer for stopping the kid:

1. ....we have problems after midnight time...People break into cars...You are a suspicious vehicle right now.

2. ....while you were coming towards me you were swerving back and forth within the roadway

3. ....When you turned in, you failed to use your turn signal, your right turn signal

4. ....As a matter of fact, I was gonna come in here, see if you're okay

5. ....I don't have to have a reason to pull you over

6. ....the commuter lot hours is after dusk, after 12 o'clock

And these are the ones I caught right off the bat. Maybe you guys can find more. Why did he keep stating different reasons for the stop? Was he making them up as he went along? Sure doesn't seem "specific."

Also, threatening to "make up stuff" only takes from his credibility and that of his department. What was he thinking?

By the way, the statement by the officer,"What privacy? Not when you're out in public, you don't have the right to privacy." is wrong because, of the privacy laws in this country. It is the ability of an individual or group to keep their lives and personal affairs out of public view, or to control the flow of information about themselves. So, unless certain information is viewable for the public as in an ad or poster or written on the side of a car or building, it is usually considered private information. You have to keep it secret or covered for it to be considered private information though. That is why cops can look in your vehicle through the window but can't reach in and touch or move anything unless you consent to a search( or if they see anything that constitutes a probable cause to search further. ie.drug paraphernalia.) So, in essence, the kid was in the right.

Remember, nowhere in the law books does it say you have to be nice. Stop being sheeple and know and protect your rights. Don't be afraid to use them either. And yes even though not being nice is not a crime, it will sometimes make your traffic stop longer. I understand not everyone has what it takes to stand up to them, but at least ask proper, polite questions to let them know they can't B.S. you around. And remember, When officers stop you, they are collecting information against you in case they decide an arrest is warranted. So, keep quiet and only answer lawful questions. Take the 5th and it will be up to them to see if the situation warrants an arrest "if" a crime has indeed been committed of course. I could go on and on about this story, but I think I have said enough. Besides, it's bed time for this old fart.

Hmm, I was curious about this video at first. It really does make you think about how often they get away with these things.

But it seems this kid really does go out of his way to find himself in these situations - perhaps for a good reason, but nonetheless, imo, unscrupulous behavior.

Here is another encounter with the police, young Brett has recorded. Same place, same kid, last year.



[edit on 11/9/2007 by badw0lf]

After watching the second video I still do not see anything this kid is doing wrong. He went through a check point and provided his DL and registration. Just because he said he doesn't want to discuss his personal life with the officer he gets taken out of his car and detained. Again completely uncalled for, the cops has no right to go on a fishing expedition looking for a reason to take you to jail. THAT is against the law.

Maybe the problem is not this kid, maybe the cops in this area have a real problem. Obviously it is enough of an issue that putting a camera in your car certainly seems like a very good idea.

I get so mad when i see this stuff its not funny. This same BS has happend to me through out my teenage yrs. im 22 now and it still happens. the only thing you can do is carry a camera. except for if your like me i go beyond this but i wont talk about that on here. everyone dont forget about STREET JUSTICE its the only real justice sometimes. Also i have my conceal carry and 4 months ago i was pulled over and i told the officer i have my conceal carry so he called for back up. and it was an hour long process of asking me why i have my conceal carry. why do i need a gun and whole lot of BS. i cant even begin to talk about this im gonna go crazy thinkin of it.

[edit on 11-9-2007 by xHADEEZx] Also i would like to add what happens when the cop just takes your camera and takes the video out of it then what. thats why you gotta think about what i said above. people should not get away with this crap. why should they. no way will i not get my own justice. they will never disrespect me and not get something in return

[edit on 11-9-2007 by xHADEEZx]

Won't adrenaline make your speech slur ?

At the beginning of your video the cop was polite. You sorta testing his authority when you asked him "What did I do wrong" with the commanding voice. Basically when a cop pulls you over. Do not question the cop, keep your hands on the wheel, always wear your seat belt($75 dollar ticker). Always and only say "Yes/no sir/mam". Never ever shoulder check or raise your tone of voice with an officer. Keep calm no matter how pissed you are at the officer. The police officer has reasons that he doesn't have to tell you. The parking lot like the cop said has criminal activity in it.

I am disappointed with the way the cop was acting but even though the parking lot you were in was 24/7 that parking lot can be exploited with criminal acts. My question is... Why did you squeeze so tight into that turn where the cop was idle at the entrance of the parking lot? Why did you even go into the parking lot? Plus, it being 2AM in the morning doesn't make your case any better because like he said. You are a suspicious vehicle.

I am not taking any side yours or the cops. Just common sense really why would you ask to be pulled over?

[edit on 11-9-2007 by Squatch]

It's just this simple in this country: Badge+Gun+Attitude problem= Corruption. It seems that the "city" cops, or "town clowns" as I like to call them, are the biggest group of officers that tend to (most times deservedly) get the bad rep. State troopers tend to exhibit a more professional demeanor, owed to better training I would guess. I've been pulled over by both- I have a fast bike- and the Troopers have always been all business. Not so much the city cops. Then again, I live in Harrisburg, Pa- a small town that wants to think it's big.
The other thing I noticed: alot of the local cops around here were the kids we all ostracized and made fun of in school. I would imagine that put a decent sized chip on their shoulders. That's just in my provincial neck of the woods, but I'll bet it is more common than I'm giving it credit for.
This kid has done no wrong, but it does look like he's hunting trouble. He should keep a lawyer in his trunk to start the lawsuits rolling quicker.

Originally posted by Dr Love
It can always be argued that the kid has a RIGHT to be there, but does he really NEED to be there. He's got a camera rolling for cryin' out loud. He was actively LOOKING for something to happen. If he was there with the intent to sell drugs, before he actually makes any transaction, does he have a RIGHT to be there??? The cop said people have been stealing cars and whatnot out of that parking lot.

Whether he needs to be there or not is not up for debate here. What IS up for debate here is the freedom that you, I, and every other United States citizen has to go where they want, so long as it's on public property. That park and ride is 24 hours, so there's NO REASON why this young man shouldn't have been allowed to sit there all night if he wanted to. Isn't that true?

Theft can take place right out of your house. Would you like the police to just come into your home and start looking around for suspicious people because crimes go on in the area? It's thinking like this that has allowed behaviors like this cop's to become the norm.

First off, there's really nothing that the guy could have done to have gotten out of that situation other than to comply with the officer's wishes. However, that makes me ask one question: Who can he go to, if the cops in his area are untrustworthy? He could try a higher law enforcement agency, but there's no assurances that he would have gotten anywhere with them.

Secondly, the camera was there because he has had something like this happen to him in the past. Why should this be allowed to happen at all? I thought police had to have reasonable cause to conduct a search..? I didn't know that they could just go do one willy-nilly. Police powers are becoming far too broad. They need to be toned down to something more reasonable, or the feds need to have oversight. Because, if we can't trust the police to protect us, then we have to resort to trusting ourselves to do that job instead. And I'm sure that that can, and will, get very ugly if it's allowed to happen.

Something needs done, and soon.

TheBorg

Do not question the cop

Sorry but you have the right to question the police just as much as they can question you.

The police officer has reasons that he doesn't have to tell you.

I don't know what world you live in but yes they do have to tell you why they pulled you over.

Why did you even go into the parking lot?

I lived in that area for quite some time so I know right where that commuter lot is at and it is used on occasion for kids to meet up.Plus it is a public lot that is OPEN to the public. Not to mention it is out of St.George jurisdiction unless they've recently changed it. So the question is why was the cop sitting outside his jurisdiction?

Originally posted by Squatch
At the beginning of your video the cop was polite. You sorta testing his authority when you asked him "What did I do wrong" with the commanding voice. Basically when a cop pulls you over. Do not question the cop,
[edit on 11-9-2007 by Squatch]

You have the right to question a cop when they pull you over. thats are right the same is it is there right to question us. and you have the right to keep your mouth shut and not talk if thats what you choose. i dont think you should be rude to a cop and disrespectful until the cop does it to you. Ive screamed FU into a cops face when i was younger because he called me a jack a%$. if you get disrespected you have the right to disrecpect the person right back no matter who it is

Originally posted by Dr Love
What I meant was that the thread has deteriorated into a cop bashing thread, just like it always does.

Real life is not black and white.

Peace

my grandfather(a police staff sargeant) told me the detroit police had special radio codes. if a black was shot, they would use the special code indicating the colour of the victim, at which point the police could either take their time, or not respond at all. life is very black and white, sometimes. especially when it comes to THE LAW.

Originally posted by Dr Love
It can always be argued that the kid has a RIGHT to be there, but does he really NEED to be there. He's got a camera rolling for cryin' out loud. He was actively LOOKING for something to happen.

so? is that illegal? because, as you said, he has a RIGHT to both be there, and have a camera, and film his belly button lint collecting if he so wishes. that's what RIGHTS are. they are FREEDOM to DO AS YOU WISH.
most people with cameras are actively looking for something to happen. some are called "journalists".

Originally posted by Dr Love
If he was there with the intent to sell drugs, before he actually makes any transaction, does he have a RIGHT to be there??? The cop said people have been stealing cars and whatnot out of that parking lot.

in minority report, he is guilty of future crime. in america, he has a right to be there with the intent to sell drugs.
as long as he doesn't actually have any drugs(against the law), and he doesn't sell any(also against the law). INTENT is not against the law........., yet.

would doctor love bring thought crime, and future crime onto the books? would that solve 'injustice'?

reply to post by billybob


Thank you for that. you just did exactly what i was about to do. you saved me the trouble

Originally posted by Squatch
At the beginning of your video the cop was polite. You sorta testing his authority when you asked him "What did I do wrong" with the commanding voice. Basically when a cop pulls you over. Do not question the cop, keep your hands on the wheel, always wear your seat belt($75 dollar ticker). Always and only say "Yes/no sir/mam". Never ever shoulder check or raise your tone of voice with an officer. Keep calm no matter how pissed you are at the officer. The police officer has reasons that he doesn't have to tell you. The parking lot like the cop said has criminal activity in it.

This is the programmed thinking I was talking about earlier. You have been programmed to submit. How are you testing the officer by asking what you did wrong? That is not testing, that is asking a simple question. It is his right to ask. The police have to have a reason for stopping you and it is your RIGHT to know why. You are not required to say Sir or Ma'am, although it is a sign of respect. I usually say Officer cause thats what he is, he should be happy I do not call him Public Servant cause thats what he is also! You have the right to call him anything you want as long as you are not breaking any laws while you do it. If I want to tell the cop that his badge does not make him smart and I think he is so stupid that he is more like a monkey wit ha language, he can not arrest me for it. Is it a good idea? Not really, but it is not against the law.

am disappointed with the way the cop was acting but even though the parking lot you were in was 24/7 that parking lot can be exploited with criminal acts. My question is... Why did you squeeze so tight into that turn where the cop was idle at the entrance of the parking lot? Why did you even go into the parking lot? Plus, it being 2AM in the morning doesn't make your case any better because like he said. You are a suspicious vehicle.

Any place can be exploited with criminal acts. That does not give the cop probable cause to make a stop. He can claim "suspicious vehicle" due to it's broad definition, but at the point he made contact and saw for himself the kid was not doing anything, there was no more "suspicion." He made that turn tight so not to hit the cop car which is clearly left of the center line. Watch it closely, it took me a few times to see it clearly.

Why 2am in a parking lot? According to the kid he was picking up his friend from work. That is not a crime. The fact that he is out at 2am does not mean anything. I pay a lot of my bills between 2-4am cause thats when I get off work and I know I will sleep in the next day. Either way, I have the right to be on the road conducting my business without having to explain to some cop why I am out. Satisfying the cop's curiosity has nothing to do with the law.


[edit on 11-9-2007 by Squatch]

Same old scam/dumber cops. I work with police every single day. The older ones really hate the new breed of cop. The standards to become a cop almost insures that you will get dorks and loosers. People that were decent and hard working students in school make horrible cops. If you were not at least a little bad growing up, you dont belong on the streets with a badge. Cops are trained to take control and be in charge. If they feel like you are not going with the program they can loose their cool. Also in the old days 50s-80s most departments did not give a crap about your credit history, love life, or feelings. They were there to keep society safe and to arrest bad guys. Now it is a power trip for a few years followed by most wanting to ride a desk and make retirement. As for rights...here are some most dont know.

1. After you sign your ticket you are FREE to leave. Usually they like to ask questions after the ticket with hopes you give up info "willingly". Say thanks and walk away after he/her hands you your copy.

2. Never give permission to search. EVER

3. If you haul things you should not, do so in the rain. Cops HATE to get wet, and chances are unless you drive nuts you will get there free.

4. If possible put your umm, stuff in browines. Cops never check them.

5. If hauling anything a dog can detect wrap in in plastic right before you leave. Not days before. Scent moves through ANYTHING but it takes time. Most dont realize this.

6. The higher up your stuff is the harder for a dog to detect. Also lol parking near road kill as well.

[edit on 11-9-2007 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]

[edit on 11-9-2007 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]