How can you honestly NOT believe in god!!??

Ok, Im a little disgruntled by the poster with the opposite view.

I have a strong belief, and thing it is boarderline insane to think that we are made from nothing of a higher power!!!

If the answer is nature, how does nature tell us how to eat, sleep, breath, poop, pee, love, hate, etc!!??

I just dont get the evolutionists who think this kind of thing would come naturally?

Why the hell then havent birds, deer, dogs, snails, bugs, etc, etc, evolved at the standard pace??

Why only humans???? only humans??? That seems like a decision someone must have made!!!

With the evolution theory, why the hell arent their rocket scientist frogs?
cats that can wire a house? Horses that can perform heart surgery?

Why does your evolution only contain the humans?? With this thinking everything would evolve at the same rate right?? Or not? Why then only humans????

I'll be waiting for our cat to do the plumbing on our basement!!


This is really silly!!!!!!!

Originally posted by redseal
If the answer is nature, how does nature tell us how to eat, sleep, breath, poop, pee, love, hate, etc!!??

I think you under estimate the power of nature.

Originally posted by redseal
Why only humans???? only humans??? That seems like a decision someone must have made!!!

Yes, it's a decision humans made by positioning ourselves at the top of the food chain. Evolution isn't about becomming the most advanced. It's about surviving. Not every animal is going to evolve to become the most intelligent, not every organism is on that track. There are a few (dolphins, chimps, etc.) but even they are influenced by humanity.

Um, try learning from a college level textbook on evolutionary bio and not the drivel that gets trolled up on the net for some answers to your questions....

In a nutshell, humans are nothing special and in some cases not very good animals. Sucks to have to come to the realization that the ONLY things we humans HAVE to do is eat, sleep, eliminate wastes and the biggie - REPRODUCE. Everything else we do in our lives is just fluff. Sorry to break that to you but that is pretty much the case.

We mammals are actually not all that good at the repro thing, so our evolutionary path that gave us (all mammals) a leg up, and that was to grow a brain. That allowed us to exploit nature to our benefit, and gave us a viable reproductive strategy. Other species to it with numbers (frogs....) to ensure the survival of the species. That is the quick and dirty - do some real reading to learn more and yes I did mine, U. of Chicago as a bio major....

Now for the god thing - if you mean god with a big G, well then please explain to me how aboriginal Australians, the Indians of the Americas and Inuit types were basically left out of the grand notification plan as preached by the believers for a good thousand+ years..?? Were they not a part of the plan, or did the big G give up after one tablet of commandments and say - "screw it, let them them deal with telling the masses, I'm off to the god bar for a cocktail"..?? The ONLY so called proof a god, is a collection of stories, compiled into a book, and the beliefs that have been nurtured by the believers of that book - period. Nothing tangible and nothing left globally for all to find or see or learn from that are anywhere to be found to give proof to any god theories. When they turn up, I will re-evaluate things but until then, I stick with what I see, hear, feel, touch, taste and measure....

Originally posted by redseal
Ok, Im a little disgruntled by the poster with the opposite view.

I have a strong belief, and thing it is boarderline insane to think that we are made from nothing of a higher power!!!

Well to us borderline insane your views are pretty much the same in our eyes.

Originally posted by redseal
If the answer is nature, how does nature tell us how to eat, sleep, breath, poop, pee, love, hate, etc!!??

I just dont get the evolutionists who think this kind of thing would come naturally?

Everything you list there is told to us by our bodies and our instincts. They are being blurred and distorded thanks to good things like advertisement, goverments and religion though.

Originally posted by redseal
Why the hell then havent birds, deer, dogs, snails, bugs, etc, etc, evolved at the standard pace??

Why only humans???? only humans??? That seems like a decision someone must have made!!!

Saying that they havent evolved doesnt make it so and frankly is quite silly. Im not saying its completely impossible that humans might have had some outside help on their evolution or that we know everything about our own evolution, but that hardly means it does not exist. As far as I know all farm animals and pets are being "evolved" by cross or selective breeding all the time, so to say it cant happen naturally makes no sense.

Originally posted by redseal
With the evolution theory, why the hell arent their rocket scientist frogs?
cats that can wire a house? Horses that can perform heart surgery?

Why does your evolution only contain the humans?? With this thinking everything would evolve at the same rate right?? Or not? Why then only humans????

To even think that human is somehow the perfect end to an evolution is pretty silly. Also there is no reason why all the evolution would aim towards our kind end product, afterall its not something that has been planned it just randomly happens. Main reason your animal explanations cant do and evolve towards those example is the lack of the ability to use/grab tools. Main drive behind human evolution has been the ability to interact heavily with out surroundings and build things.

Originally posted by redseal
I'll be waiting for our cat to do the plumbing on our basement!!

This is really silly!!!!!!!

Well one thing I can actually agree with you, it is really silly indeed.

Originally posted by UofCinLA
The ONLY so called proof a god, is a collection of stories, compiled into a book, and the beliefs that have been nurtured by the believers of that book - period. Nothing tangible and nothing left globally for all to find or see or learn from that are anywhere to be found to give proof to any god theories. When they turn up, I will re-evaluate things but until then, I stick with what I see, hear, feel, touch, taste and measure....

I couldn't have said it better. I'm off to go taste some brownies I made then have some intelligent conversation with hubby.

Originally posted by redseal
If the answer is nature, how does nature tell us how to eat, sleep, breath, poop, pee, love, hate, etc!!??

those that didn't evolve the intincts above got selected out, simple as that.

I just dont get the evolutionists who think this kind of thing would come naturally?

there are no "evolutionists" there are people that accept science.

Why the hell then havent birds, deer, dogs, snails, bugs, etc, etc, evolved at the standard pace??

they have, they just evolved differently.

Why only humans???? only humans??? That seems like a decision someone must have made!!!

um, humans just evolved differently, not better.

With the evolution theory, why the hell arent their rocket scientist frogs?
cats that can wire a house? Horses that can perform heart surgery?

because the enivornmental pressures that were needed for those animals to evolve the necessary intelligence or dexterity to perform those tasks weren't there over the millions of years it takes for them to evolve them.

Why does your evolution only contain the humans?? With this thinking everything would evolve at the same rate right?? Or not? Why then only humans????

everything IS evolving at the same rate, humans evolved intelligence and dexterity at the same rate horses evolved speed and endurance.

I'll be waiting for our cat to do the plumbing on our basement!!


This is really silly!!!!!!!

no, the only tihng that is silly is your misunderstanding of evolutionary theory

From a more spirtual point of view...
It hard to believe in a god when deep down you feel that to acknowledge his existence is a lie. A human's actions and fate are not preprogramed by a god, or free will would not exist. Free will can go hand and hand with evolution, by trying to claw our way to the top humans have discovered our free will in choosing. I believe that in the process of evolution, religion is only a hinderance. Those who truly feel and believe there is no god have evolved and do not need such a crutch in their lives.
One point of evidence: there seems to be more insane rampages from religious zealots than there are atheists. Many serial killers claim that god or some other diety-like being gave them the power to take life. It seems that religion just leads to a gradual breaking down of the mind within our species, and those able to let go of religion have thus "evolved" past that deadly fall.

as to not quote all that. i feel the same way about god.
how can you honestly believe in god?
why did he put an infiniate solar system out there, plases we will 'never' visit....it just don't jive for all the reasons you said....you answered you own question, for me anyway

Originally posted by UofCinLA
Um, try learning from a college level textbook on evolutionary bio and not the drivel that gets trolled up on the net for some answers to your questions....

AHHHH the college text book, the answer to everything!! Why was I so stupid??

In a nutshell, humans are nothing special and in some cases not very good animals. Sucks to have to come to the realization that the ONLY things we humans HAVE to do is eat, sleep, eliminate wastes and the biggie - REPRODUCE. Everything else we do in our lives is just fluff. Sorry to break that to you but that is pretty much the case.

Except intelligent thought, you compare us to nothing more than a snail, we are special, and thats why cats dont rule the world.

Sucks to realize that huh. sorry to break it to ya.

We mammals are actually not all that good at the repro thing, so our evolutionary path that gave us (all mammals) a leg up, and that was to grow a brain. That allowed us to exploit nature to our benefit, and gave us a viable reproductive strategy. Other species to it with numbers (frogs....) to ensure the survival of the species. That is the quick and dirty - do some real reading to learn more and yes I did mine, U. of Chicago as a bio major....

???????????? Humans are not that good at the repro thing???!! Are you kidding or just trying to be sarcastic?? this just contradicts everything in your last statement.

. Nothing tangible and nothing left globally for all to find or see or learn from that are anywhere to be found to give proof to any god theories. When they turn up, I will re-evaluate things but until then, I stick with what I see, hear, feel, touch, taste and measure....

Have you ever seen the the electrons move from a light switch to the light when you flip the switch?? Nope, but it works. Have you ever watched your cars pistons move at 3500 rpm as you travel down the highway at 65 mph? Can you Record your dreams at night? I cant see them so how then did you have them?

Say something to yourself in your head.......You hear it, did anyone else??

Your arguments arent even weak at best, youve done nothing but prove my theory.

And for that I thank you.

Originally posted by redseal
Have you ever seen the the electrons move from a light switch to the light when you flip the switch?? Nope, but it works.

and we can observe it through scientific testing... it's not like you have to actually see something on the sub-atomic level to "see" it.

Have you ever watched your cars pistons move at 3500 rpm as you travel down the highway at 65 mph?

well... not my car, but i've seen high speed footage of a car engine working at 3000+ rpm.

Can you Record your dreams at night? I cant see them so how then did you have them?

no, but you can run tests to monitor someone's brain as they dream and you can realize that they were dreaming.

Say something to yourself in your head.......You hear it, did anyone else??

Your arguments arent even weak at best, youve done nothing but prove my theory.

um... you've put forth no theory, only a hypothesis. try responding to my post before you say something is proven.

Originally posted by redseal

Originally posted by UofCinLA
Um, try learning from a college level textbook on evolutionary bio and not the drivel that gets trolled up on the net for some answers to your questions....

AHHHH the college text book, the answer to everything!! Why was I so stupid??

This post contains so much irony, I could iron my shirts for a week !

Except intelligent thought, you compare us to nothing more than a snail, we are special, and thats why cats dont rule the world.

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but rather the one most responsive to change." C. Darwin

The drive of evolution is not necessarily torwards intelligence.

???????????? Humans are not that good at the repro thing???!! Are you kidding or just trying to be sarcastic?? this just contradicts everything in your last statement.

Compared to micro-organisms, insects or lots of other species no we're not.

Originally posted by redseal
How can you honestly NOT believe in god!!??

For the same reason you cannot believe in Zeus, Odin, Quetzaquotal, Horus, Bramah, Saturn, Tiamat, Jobu, etc.
When you see it from an outside perspective ALL of these fictional dieties are outdated, childish superstitions and there is no reason why any of them should be given any credibility over the other.
From an outside perspective, it all looks ridiculous.

I have a strong belief, and thing it is boarderline insane to think that we are made from nothing of a higher power!!!

Don't get me wrong, anyone can believe anything they like, I don't judge. But you can believe something until you're blue in the face and your eyes pop out and it still doesn't make it true.

If the answer is nature, how does nature tell us how to eat, sleep, breath, poop, pee, love, hate, etc!!??

I just dont get the evolutionists who think this kind of thing would come naturally?

Break a person down into molecules and it makes perfect sense.

Eating provides you with fuel and building material.

Breathing provides you with a crucial element for the chemical reactions within you that allow you to move, build, and repair.

Sleeping replenishes chemicals in your brain, but that's just an evolutionary development to force us into daily downtime for repair and maintenance.

All waste is a byproduct of said reactions inside of you. It isn't perfect though, as both micro and macro nutrients are also lost in the waste elimination process.

Hate is a useful emotion that helps the species survive. During defense and resourse competition, not to mention procreation rights, with other species and other humans, hate really helps with the required violence. Hate is no longer useful now that we are a civilized, global society, but it would take far too long for it to evolve out of us. Perhaps genetic engineering will help this.

And love, my personal favorite. Love is evolution's biggest trick. Social love helps us form bonds and groups which help us survive. Romantic love is a trick to get you to make other humans.

Why the hell then havent birds, deer, dogs, snails, bugs, etc, etc, evolved at the standard pace??

This was answered already...
you know, survival, adaptation, college textbook, etc.

Why only humans???? only humans??? That seems like a decision someone must have made!!!

Like giant robots that can transform having dropped an all-spark on us? Or maybe pervy black eyed beings genetically manipulating us?
Or maybe, evolution is about survival, and therefore intelligence only develops as needed to survive. Also, aside from sapiens, there were other homos that developed similarly. We out-survived them. Also, dolphins are comparable to us intellectually, but they lack HANDS AND FEET. Imagine, after we humans kill ourselves off, what type of civilization could develop here if those damn dolphins could just crawl out of the ocean. So no, it wasn't ONLY humans

With the evolution theory, why the hell arent their rocket scientist frogs?
cats that can wire a house? Horses that can perform heart surgery?

Why does your evolution only contain the humans?? With this thinking everything would evolve at the same rate right?? Or not? Why then only humans????

Where did you go to school? You should really consider a lawsuit against the school board of that city.

I'll be waiting for our cat to do the plumbing on our basement!!


This is really silly!!!!!!!

Didja el-oh-el?
Didja really?
A. No, you didn't laugh out loud. This internet is really starting to bug me with all of these phoney el-oh-els going around.
B. You put the el-oh-el there because you don't have confidence in what you posted. That's what people do, and it happens a lot on ATS because beliefs are often challenged here, and when defending a belief that you don't have much confidence in, you have to throw up these strange defense mechanisms, but I'm sure this is a topic for another thread.

And I'm sorry if I sound harsh and grumpy, I promise that I have religious friends. We just avoid this topic in real life. On the interwebs sometimes it's hard to avoid, and if I'm in the proper mood and I see a thread concerning god, I may just jump in.

Originally posted by Sunsetspawn

Originally posted by redseal
How can you honestly NOT believe in god!!??

For the same reason you cannot believe in Zeus, Odin, Quetzaquotal, Horus, Bramah, Saturn, Tiamat, Jobu, etc.

Anyone or all of them could be "GOD"

Don't get me wrong, anyone can believe anything they like, I don't judge. But you can believe something until you're blue in the face and your eyes pop out and it still doesn't make it true.

And your perspective on the matter deserves the same response.

Break a person down into molecules and it makes perfect sense.

Exactly how?? Down to our dna, your saying it all "just kinda fell into the bucket in the exact perfect order"

Eating provides you with fuel and building material.

Breathing provides you with a crucial element for the chemical reactions within you that allow you to move, build, and repair.

Sleeping replenishes chemicals in your brain, but that's just an evolutionary development to force us into daily downtime for repair and maintenance.

Ya that is how it works, but what makes it work that way??

Hate is a useful emotion that helps the species survive. During defense and resourse competition, not to mention procreation rights, with other species and other humans, hate really helps with the required violence. Hate is no longer useful now that we are a civilized, global society, but it would take far too long for it to evolve out of us. Perhaps genetic engineering will help this.

And love, my personal favorite. Love is evolution's biggest trick. Social love helps us form bonds and groups which help us survive. Romantic love is a trick to get you to make other humans.

Emotios, yes this just helps my point. Put a piece of rock on the ground for a billion years and it willl never feel hate. Put a computer in front of your face and untill you "the operator" makes it do something, it fails to respond. What makes me as a man, seek out women for reproduction?? what or whom put that into my brain?? It wasnt their when I was 4, but it sure as hell is here now! Maybe this "evolution" you keep refering to, and seems to have so much of my life planned out for me, is really GOD??

Imagine, after we humans kill ourselves off, what type of civilization could develop here if those damn dolphins could just crawl out of the ocean. So no, it wasn't ONLY humans

What?? We havent killed ourselves off and never will, And yes it is ONLY the humans that have evolved! When I see a dolphin playing golf or driving a car Ill take more stock in that ridiculus statement.

Where did you go to school? You should really consider a lawsuit against the school board of that city.

I knew it, name calling. "If you dont agree with me I'll just call you stupid" Its not important where I went to school, I just didn't know I was dealing with a name calling 5th grader. I truly understand your points a bit better now.

Didja el-oh-el?
Didja really?

Nope you got me there Sherlock!! Good detective work!!

You put the el-oh-el there because you don't have confidence in what you posted. That's what people do, and it happens a lot on ATS because beliefs are often challenged here, and when defending a belief that you don't have much confidence in, you have to throw up these strange defense mechanisms, but I'm sure this is a topic for another thread.

Why the hell if I didnt have confidence in what I was posting, would I post it????? Who defends a belief they dont have confidence in????
Was Martin Luther King really for slavery?? Naw he owned himself a slave or two! That last statement of yours was worse than the last!
Pure CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I'm sorry if I sound harsh and grumpy, I promise that I have religious friends. We just avoid this topic in real life. On the interwebs sometimes it's hard to avoid, and if I'm in the proper mood and I see a thread concerning god, I may just jump in.

BEST OF LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's links for evolution of dolphins
library.advanced.org...

dolphins.jump-gate.com...

"The cetaceans (whales, dolphins and porpoises) are descendants of land-living mammals, and remnants of their terrestrial origins can be found in the fact that they must breathe air from the surface; in the bones of their fins, which look like huge, jointed hands; and in the vertical movement of their spines, characteristic more of a running mammal than of the horizontal movement of fish. The question of how land animals evolved into ocean-going behemoths has been a mystery for a long time, owing to gaps in the fossil record. However, recent discoveries in Pakistan have managed to solve many of these mysteries, and it is now possible to see several stages in the transition of the cetaceans from land to sea"

So they have evolved. Just not as far as us humans.

Evolution and creationism can co-exist. One does not necessarily exclude the other.

As far as God, I am a believer. But it is something I believe on faith. I can no more prove to a non-believer that there is a God than they can prove to me that their isn't.

I don't see this as a bad thing. Look on your belief in God as a gift that wasn't given to everyone. You can be happy and comfortable in your belief....I know I am.

Originally posted by duster
Evolution and creationism can co-exist. One does not necessarily exclude the other.

except that science does inherently exclude creationism.

As far as God, I am a believer. But it is something I believe on faith. I can no more prove to a non-believer that there is a God than they can prove to me that their isn't.

but it isn't our burden to disprove something that you can't prove.

I don't see this as a bad thing. Look on your belief in God as a gift that wasn't given to everyone. You can be happy and comfortable in your belief....I know I am.

you're acting as if faith is a virtue. believing something on absolutely no evidence is labelled a lot of negative things until it comes to religion: paranoia, psychosis... all these illogical beliefs and yet you get a write off because it's religion

Originally posted by redseal
AHHHH the college text book, the answer to everything!! Why was I so stupid??


^^^^^^bwuahahahahahhahah....what can even be said to that?

Except intelligent thought, you compare us to nothing more than a snail, we are special, and thats why cats dont rule the world.


^^^^^^we're not so special. we destroy everything we touch. just cause we have large brains and a large capacity for knowledge(not the same as intelligence) does not mean we are special....it's all that brainpower that is gonna go us in......cats don't rule the world now but did they ever? will they ever? humans have not always 'ruled the world' ya know?



???????????? Humans are not that good at the repro thing???!! Are you kidding or just trying to be sarcastic?? this just contradicts everything in your last statement.

^^^^^nope. humans are not every good at it....did you know that if you gathered up ALL the people in the world and weighed them, they would way as much as ALL the ants in the world....what does that tell?
tells me there is a F of a lot more ants than there are people.
bacteria and other organisms....i used to keep cichlids....my convicts would have a clutch of about 300 fry every 2.5 months.....
how many kids do people have in 2.5 months? 2.5 years? 25 years?
it's just that you can see more humans versus everything else....


Have you ever seen the the electrons move from a light switch to the light when you flip the switch??
^^^^nope...
Nope, but it works. Have you ever watched your cars pistons move at 3500 rpm as you travel down the highway at 65 mph?
^^^^not as i travel down the road but when i went through my PACT training yeah, i saw that.....


Can you Record your dreams at night? I cant see them so how then did you have them?

^^^i can't but there are physicians that can record dreams...yes....not 'record' like you think though

Say something to yourself in your head.......You hear it, did anyone else??

^^^^WHAT are you talking about??????

Your arguments arent even weak at best, youve done nothing but prove my theory.

you're talking about others and their week arguments.......

Originally posted by duster
Evolution and creationism can co-exist. One does not necessarily exclude the other.

But there is only concrete, real evidence for evolution. Creationism is a belief based on incomplete knowledge of how things came to be, that we no longer need because we have the answers now.

God is a creation of people who don't know how things work. It's time we grew as a species and gave up our invisible friends. We aren't children any longer, who need to be told that thunder is angels bowling.

So they have evolved. Just not as far as us humans.

Humans are not more evolved than dolphins, "more evolved" doesn't mean anything.

Evolution and creationism can co-exist. One does not necessarily exclude the other.

Science does excludes and disproves creationnism. The earth is not 6000 years old, life did evolve. There is no controversy about those facts.

how can i honestly not believe in god? watch this movie and then talk.

www.zeitgeistmovie.com