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US Cops the New Storm Troopers?
page: 2share:
The police have no interest in the New World Order, im sorry. All they want to do is do their jobs and get their paychecks. They have NO desire to run
around taking guns from every house in the community or taking everyone off to concentration camps.
If Bush created a national police force I would be leary (FEDERAL POLICE ARE NOT NATIONAL POLICE) but until Bush forces all the little 5 member east bumblef--k police and sheriff's offices into the National Police Hitler style I wont be worried one bit.
If Bush created a national police force I would be leary (FEDERAL POLICE ARE NOT NATIONAL POLICE) but until Bush forces all the little 5 member east bumblef--k police and sheriff's offices into the National Police Hitler style I wont be worried one bit.
Maybe it's my age, but I was taught that you get respect by giving respect, not by demanding it. And you don't get respect when you display an
attitude at the start of any discussion between two people.
Now my own family and my wife's had many peace officers. And that was exactly what they were. They made sure that things remained peaceful.
A couple of years ago, my wife and I went to an auction in Oklahoma, and bought a whole carload of stuff. (My wife is a sucker for "cheap"). The auction was indoors on a Friday night, and we stayed till the last items sold, so we left about 8:30 in the evening.
Halfway through our two hour trip home we passed through a small town and were followed out of town by a squad car. We were followed for ten miles, with this cop car less than a car length behind us with his lights almost blinding my wife, who was driving. (We debated pulling over, but were not sure at that point if it was a cop or some road rage nutcase, so we didn't.)
Finally, at the edge of the next small community, the lights came on and we stopped. After a check of all the paperwork, including my ID, even though I was only a passenger, the cop came back to our car and said he wanted a consent to search for drugs.
When I protested that we had no drugs, he snarled at me to shut the f*** up. He then informed my little gray haired wife who has never had even a speeding ticket that if she did not give her consent for the car to be searched he would call for a canine drug dog, and (his words) "then I know we'll find the drugs."
I have no doubt in my mind, now or then, exactly what he meant. I told my wife to go ahead and sign his consent, because we had nothing to hide anyway. To make a long story short, an hour later, with all of our belongings on the side of the road in the snow, and us outside in the snow ourselves, he gave up by saying "well, you've got them, I just can't find them this time."
When I demanded that he state his reason for pulling us over in the first place, he refused to answer. Another cop had arrived by this time, as backup in case two old people had a chance of overpowering this 30 year old punk with a gun, and I asked him if he heard the officer refuse to tell me the reason for the stop. At this point, the original officer snarled that it was because the muffler hung too low.
Now this vehicle had a muffler on the rear bumper, attached to the bumper, with two half moon cutouts that the small exhaust pipes fit into. There was no way it could be too low, as all of us there could see that there was a perfect fit between pipes and bumper.
So, I called him a G.D.Liar whereupon he gave me a ticket for $25.00 for disturbing the peace. The ticket was upheld when I went to court, and they would not listen to anything I had to say, nor would they file charges when I tried to do so for his language towards us.
Now I could have gone in for a civil suit of some kind, maybe took it to court somewhere, but by then I wanted nothing more than to never see that little idiot again. I knew that I was playing a rigged game, and that I would not be allowed to win, no matter the situation, because he was a cop, and I was not.
And the final sad truth is that in any court in America, the word of a cop is worth the testimony of any three civilians. A cop is assumed to be good and honest, and anyone who contradicts a cop is a liar. And that is the real basis of where cops start gaining the feeling that they are better than the rest of us.
Do I hate cops? NO. Do I trust cops? NO. They have fell so far in esteem that they now have to show me a reason to trust them or cooperate with them. And if this offends some of you, then don't blame me, blame the "few bad apples" that you refuse to weed out.
If police forces would get past this "brother in blue" idea, and treat bad cops the same way, and to the same standard, that citizens are treated, then maybe some respect could be earned back. ( Have any of you noticed that on any cop show, the Internal Affairs guys are almost always shown as low down no good a---holes? Have you ever wondered why? )
So go ahead, jump my case out for not being understanding. But if you have an ounce of honesty, you'll admit, at least to yourself, that cops get just exactly the respect that they have, overall, shown themselves worthy of.
Now my own family and my wife's had many peace officers. And that was exactly what they were. They made sure that things remained peaceful.
A couple of years ago, my wife and I went to an auction in Oklahoma, and bought a whole carload of stuff. (My wife is a sucker for "cheap"). The auction was indoors on a Friday night, and we stayed till the last items sold, so we left about 8:30 in the evening.
Halfway through our two hour trip home we passed through a small town and were followed out of town by a squad car. We were followed for ten miles, with this cop car less than a car length behind us with his lights almost blinding my wife, who was driving. (We debated pulling over, but were not sure at that point if it was a cop or some road rage nutcase, so we didn't.)
Finally, at the edge of the next small community, the lights came on and we stopped. After a check of all the paperwork, including my ID, even though I was only a passenger, the cop came back to our car and said he wanted a consent to search for drugs.
When I protested that we had no drugs, he snarled at me to shut the f*** up. He then informed my little gray haired wife who has never had even a speeding ticket that if she did not give her consent for the car to be searched he would call for a canine drug dog, and (his words) "then I know we'll find the drugs."
I have no doubt in my mind, now or then, exactly what he meant. I told my wife to go ahead and sign his consent, because we had nothing to hide anyway. To make a long story short, an hour later, with all of our belongings on the side of the road in the snow, and us outside in the snow ourselves, he gave up by saying "well, you've got them, I just can't find them this time."
When I demanded that he state his reason for pulling us over in the first place, he refused to answer. Another cop had arrived by this time, as backup in case two old people had a chance of overpowering this 30 year old punk with a gun, and I asked him if he heard the officer refuse to tell me the reason for the stop. At this point, the original officer snarled that it was because the muffler hung too low.
Now this vehicle had a muffler on the rear bumper, attached to the bumper, with two half moon cutouts that the small exhaust pipes fit into. There was no way it could be too low, as all of us there could see that there was a perfect fit between pipes and bumper.
So, I called him a G.D.Liar whereupon he gave me a ticket for $25.00 for disturbing the peace. The ticket was upheld when I went to court, and they would not listen to anything I had to say, nor would they file charges when I tried to do so for his language towards us.
Now I could have gone in for a civil suit of some kind, maybe took it to court somewhere, but by then I wanted nothing more than to never see that little idiot again. I knew that I was playing a rigged game, and that I would not be allowed to win, no matter the situation, because he was a cop, and I was not.
And the final sad truth is that in any court in America, the word of a cop is worth the testimony of any three civilians. A cop is assumed to be good and honest, and anyone who contradicts a cop is a liar. And that is the real basis of where cops start gaining the feeling that they are better than the rest of us.
Do I hate cops? NO. Do I trust cops? NO. They have fell so far in esteem that they now have to show me a reason to trust them or cooperate with them. And if this offends some of you, then don't blame me, blame the "few bad apples" that you refuse to weed out.
If police forces would get past this "brother in blue" idea, and treat bad cops the same way, and to the same standard, that citizens are treated, then maybe some respect could be earned back. ( Have any of you noticed that on any cop show, the Internal Affairs guys are almost always shown as low down no good a---holes? Have you ever wondered why? )
So go ahead, jump my case out for not being understanding. But if you have an ounce of honesty, you'll admit, at least to yourself, that cops get just exactly the respect that they have, overall, shown themselves worthy of.
Elevatedone:
YOU ARE MISTAKEN. There is NO LAW that says that Americans MUST carry identification on their persons. It does not exist.
There is NO LAW that says that an American citizen has to identify themselves to anyone, ioncluding a cop, UNLESS THE COP HAS " reasonable grounds to believe " that the person in question has either committed or is committing a crime, or for some other ARTICULABLE reason is worthy of suspicion. OK?
Merely walking down a street is NOT supposed to expose a free person to the close scrutiny of the government. Why should it be? With no evidence of crime and no reason to suspect an individual, they should be free to go about their business unmolested by cops. That is an INHERENT right under the Constitution.
We have a Right to be " secure in our persons, papers and...("4th Amendment ) and secure means left alone. We have a Right to be left alone unless there is GOOD reason, a real cause, before the cops can disturb our personal space and take our time. Why do so many citizens assume that we owe the cops our time and attention for petty and unnessary and unfounded fishing expedtiions. 90% of all searches by cops result in nothing, zero, nada. That means that 9 out of 10 people stopped and hassled and probably searched were inconvenienced and delayed and bothered and perhaps humiliated and all for nothing.
Cops like to cast a big net in a small pond and drag out every living thing and throw away what they cannot use; whether it makes it back to the water by wiggling enough or whether it dies is of no matter to them. Get the picture? They do not care who is late for dinner or if you hate sitting on the side of the road or if your neighbors will wonder why they are there...unless there is a specific reason for bothering you, a cop has no right and no need to ask you anything.
Of course the system wants attitudes of subservience, it suits their goals of total control. If the population is bowed and broken in spirit and unwilling to ever speak out, even when their most fundamental rights are being exploited in the name of ' protecting us ' , then the social controllers will have no problems keeping a nation cowed and compliant no matter HOW draconian and repressive the ' laws ' become.
Elavatedone and many others will line up and do exactly what they are told to do, unquestioning and meek. their trust is in the system and not in self reliance and group solidarity with like minded individuals so when it gets to the hard part, taking a stand and saying " HELL NO , I won't take it any more !! " they will be unable to summon the courage, never used. They will be unable to speak out, their voices frozen from a lifetime of fear that their words might provoke. They will not be able to refuse the vilest order ( see Abu Ghraib photos) because to refuse is unthinakable.
It should be EXPECTED that the police act like true professionals, as they always claim to be, and follow the law as strictly as they demand we do, and observe and respect ALL of our precious Constitutional Rights automatically, without us having to demand them or fight for them at every encounter. The police should NOT use subterfuge and lies and bullying and aggressive pressure to try and get citizens to give up their Rights. The police should NOT be legally allowed to lie to the public in regard to material truth concerning our rights or the law. police should NEVER perjure themselves under oath as is so common today.
In closing, one can respect the police ONLY if they deserve respect, and that comes from adherence to the highest standards of conduct by them and the most stringent observance of our individual Rights under all circumstances. Only then can they truly be said to be protectors and servants; right now, for most, they are the Masters and Tyrants. you choose which one by they way you defend the law and your Rights when it comes down to it, I guess. Which side will YOU be on?
YOU ARE MISTAKEN. There is NO LAW that says that Americans MUST carry identification on their persons. It does not exist.
There is NO LAW that says that an American citizen has to identify themselves to anyone, ioncluding a cop, UNLESS THE COP HAS " reasonable grounds to believe " that the person in question has either committed or is committing a crime, or for some other ARTICULABLE reason is worthy of suspicion. OK?
Merely walking down a street is NOT supposed to expose a free person to the close scrutiny of the government. Why should it be? With no evidence of crime and no reason to suspect an individual, they should be free to go about their business unmolested by cops. That is an INHERENT right under the Constitution.
We have a Right to be " secure in our persons, papers and...("4th Amendment ) and secure means left alone. We have a Right to be left alone unless there is GOOD reason, a real cause, before the cops can disturb our personal space and take our time. Why do so many citizens assume that we owe the cops our time and attention for petty and unnessary and unfounded fishing expedtiions. 90% of all searches by cops result in nothing, zero, nada. That means that 9 out of 10 people stopped and hassled and probably searched were inconvenienced and delayed and bothered and perhaps humiliated and all for nothing.
Cops like to cast a big net in a small pond and drag out every living thing and throw away what they cannot use; whether it makes it back to the water by wiggling enough or whether it dies is of no matter to them. Get the picture? They do not care who is late for dinner or if you hate sitting on the side of the road or if your neighbors will wonder why they are there...unless there is a specific reason for bothering you, a cop has no right and no need to ask you anything.
Of course the system wants attitudes of subservience, it suits their goals of total control. If the population is bowed and broken in spirit and unwilling to ever speak out, even when their most fundamental rights are being exploited in the name of ' protecting us ' , then the social controllers will have no problems keeping a nation cowed and compliant no matter HOW draconian and repressive the ' laws ' become.
Elavatedone and many others will line up and do exactly what they are told to do, unquestioning and meek. their trust is in the system and not in self reliance and group solidarity with like minded individuals so when it gets to the hard part, taking a stand and saying " HELL NO , I won't take it any more !! " they will be unable to summon the courage, never used. They will be unable to speak out, their voices frozen from a lifetime of fear that their words might provoke. They will not be able to refuse the vilest order ( see Abu Ghraib photos) because to refuse is unthinakable.
It should be EXPECTED that the police act like true professionals, as they always claim to be, and follow the law as strictly as they demand we do, and observe and respect ALL of our precious Constitutional Rights automatically, without us having to demand them or fight for them at every encounter. The police should NOT use subterfuge and lies and bullying and aggressive pressure to try and get citizens to give up their Rights. The police should NOT be legally allowed to lie to the public in regard to material truth concerning our rights or the law. police should NEVER perjure themselves under oath as is so common today.
In closing, one can respect the police ONLY if they deserve respect, and that comes from adherence to the highest standards of conduct by them and the most stringent observance of our individual Rights under all circumstances. Only then can they truly be said to be protectors and servants; right now, for most, they are the Masters and Tyrants. you choose which one by they way you defend the law and your Rights when it comes down to it, I guess. Which side will YOU be on?
NGC2736 : I believe every word you said and it is a common occurence. I can tell you did NOT have an attorney, nor did you know or exercise your
Rights. If you had any decent attorney, the ' disorderly conduct ' charge would have been dismissed; it is NOT illegal to curse at a cop, no
way.
You should NEVER have signed a consent form or allowed the cops to start the humiliating and degrading procedure they put you thrrough. I feel for you, believe me. I hate the injustice, but that points out PERFECTLY what I have been shouting all along : If you know your Rights and use your Rights your rights will protect you. You gave up your protection when you let yourself be bullied.
If you had simply stood firm and refused consent, they would have no doubt written a warning for some bogus crap and sent you on your way. If they had violated your rights by just searching anyway, you would have then had a clear cut case for a lawsuit. they know this, THAT is why they spend so much effort to get consent.( Please see my thread here called : Constitutional Rights for Citizens: Police Contacts)
I have a lot of info there about exactly what should be done to avoid going through what you did. Cops get the hair on the back of their neck up when a citizen firmly, calmly and insistently insists on having his Constitutional rights observed. They think " Oh, God, this guy probably has some lawyer just waiting to sue me ". Trust me folks, that is EXACTLY what the savvy citizen wants every cop to think!! If they think you are smart enough to ignore all their talk and crap and stick to your guns with total refusal to give consent, no statements other than identity, they will face a choice: Either leave this guy alone before some lawyer files a lawsuit on me. OR " The heck with his rights and the law, I don't care if I get in trouble later, I am going to have my way NOW !!"
There ARE, sad to say, a few cops that WILL make that choice; and your attorney will have your best case ready if you do what I have said. But the vast majority know that trouble can come to them too and so they will most likley back off; it is a game after all. They are playing a game they play all the time, and if you decide to play, you will lose, They can lie about the rules, change the rules mid-game, and will win no matter what.
So NEVER play the game!! There are really only TWO things that need be said, legally, to a cop. Here they are : I do NOT give consent to any searches.2. Am I free to leave? If you say that, and only that, the cop is left with a hard choice: Clearly violate the rights of the person and proceed, or give them a ticket, at the worst, and let them go. If they want to arrest or anything else just say OK and get an ATTORNEY.
If your rights were clearly violated, you may very well be eligible for money, sometimes big money, for your suffering,etc. Federal law provides a great law to sue cops, and insurance companies will settle a clear cut case often and give you a settlement just for filing. If the cop is not given immunity, and the insurance company is not required to cover his illegal acts, then you can take his car, and home, and savings, and ruin him.
THAT has always been the most effective way of reigning in gung ho cops who violate rights; word gets around quick amongst cops when one of them gets a taste of what it is like to be on the receiving end of things for a change. More than anything, cops fear personal damage awards for their misconduct, so many will bluff like they did with you.
You fell for the bluff, most people do, don't feel too badly. Had you held firm, you would have been on your way without all that bother, or you would have had a solid case for a lawsuit. That is what it really always boils down to, that choice. And the cops know it too. Call their bluff.
You should NEVER have signed a consent form or allowed the cops to start the humiliating and degrading procedure they put you thrrough. I feel for you, believe me. I hate the injustice, but that points out PERFECTLY what I have been shouting all along : If you know your Rights and use your Rights your rights will protect you. You gave up your protection when you let yourself be bullied.
If you had simply stood firm and refused consent, they would have no doubt written a warning for some bogus crap and sent you on your way. If they had violated your rights by just searching anyway, you would have then had a clear cut case for a lawsuit. they know this, THAT is why they spend so much effort to get consent.( Please see my thread here called : Constitutional Rights for Citizens: Police Contacts)
I have a lot of info there about exactly what should be done to avoid going through what you did. Cops get the hair on the back of their neck up when a citizen firmly, calmly and insistently insists on having his Constitutional rights observed. They think " Oh, God, this guy probably has some lawyer just waiting to sue me ". Trust me folks, that is EXACTLY what the savvy citizen wants every cop to think!! If they think you are smart enough to ignore all their talk and crap and stick to your guns with total refusal to give consent, no statements other than identity, they will face a choice: Either leave this guy alone before some lawyer files a lawsuit on me. OR " The heck with his rights and the law, I don't care if I get in trouble later, I am going to have my way NOW !!"
There ARE, sad to say, a few cops that WILL make that choice; and your attorney will have your best case ready if you do what I have said. But the vast majority know that trouble can come to them too and so they will most likley back off; it is a game after all. They are playing a game they play all the time, and if you decide to play, you will lose, They can lie about the rules, change the rules mid-game, and will win no matter what.
So NEVER play the game!! There are really only TWO things that need be said, legally, to a cop. Here they are : I do NOT give consent to any searches.2. Am I free to leave? If you say that, and only that, the cop is left with a hard choice: Clearly violate the rights of the person and proceed, or give them a ticket, at the worst, and let them go. If they want to arrest or anything else just say OK and get an ATTORNEY.
If your rights were clearly violated, you may very well be eligible for money, sometimes big money, for your suffering,etc. Federal law provides a great law to sue cops, and insurance companies will settle a clear cut case often and give you a settlement just for filing. If the cop is not given immunity, and the insurance company is not required to cover his illegal acts, then you can take his car, and home, and savings, and ruin him.
THAT has always been the most effective way of reigning in gung ho cops who violate rights; word gets around quick amongst cops when one of them gets a taste of what it is like to be on the receiving end of things for a change. More than anything, cops fear personal damage awards for their misconduct, so many will bluff like they did with you.
You fell for the bluff, most people do, don't feel too badly. Had you held firm, you would have been on your way without all that bother, or you would have had a solid case for a lawsuit. That is what it really always boils down to, that choice. And the cops know it too. Call their bluff.
eyewitness, you do know that there are two Americas, don't you? There is that part of America where at least a passing respect is paid to the rights
of citizens, and another where it is not.
Now these two nations coexist superimposed over each other. If you are driving a one year old Lexus, have on some gold jewelry, and sporting a $60.00 haircut, you live in Upper America.
And if you are driving a six year old Chevy, wearing blue jeans and and runover cowboy boots, you live in Lower America.
Now I grant you that there is some spillover between these two states, but our men in blue make an art form out of judging who has the time and money to fight them.
And they use two sets of rules with these two groups. They'll still bust the rich, but the rich view it as the cost of doing business, and the Scooter Libbys and Paris Hiltons of this world always come out on top, because they have the money to win, even when they lose.
And then you have rural America. The heartland. Small town America with all their dirty little secrets. Places from Ga. to MN. to WV to NM. Places that National Geographic prints pictures of. Places often called "close knit", which is a codeword for keeping their secret ways a secret.
Here the sheriff and the judge are second cousins, the town cop is married to the mayors daughter, and the whole town council have known each other since grade school. The only two lawyers that the judge will even listen to are good drinking buddies of the prosecuting attorney.
Now if you are from out of town, too bad. You can have the best lawyer that Oklahoma City has to offer, and it will not do you one ounce of good. These people will lie till Hell freezes over before they will let one of their own get charged with anything. They will pile up false charges faster than you can count them, if that's what it takes.
Not only that, they don't put much stock in the concept of rights, being 90% brainwashed since birth to the good conservative Christian values. And anyway, you must be guilty of something, or the cop wouldn't have stopped you. ( An attitude that you can find right here on ATS from the apologizers corner.)
Now when you add to that the fact that these towns are struggling for money, and they are not about to let the least amount of revenue slip past. I know of counties here that charge you for your stay in jail if they can convict you, and they will convict you of something.
Their favorite trick is to pile up ten or twelve charges, some carrying up to ten years or so, knowing the person they arrest has no money to put up $100,000.00 bail for a charge of assault and resisting arrest and endangering a child and whatever else they can add. ( All over some incident that should have been a simple assault at most for having a loud argument with a spouse.)
After a about three months on commodity free food in the roach infested things that pass for jails, they'll plead it down to the simple assault, give them time served, and let them out. The catch is that they now owe the county $20.00 per day for room and board, $10.00 if a nurse had to come back and see them for anything, and upwards of $75.00 if they really got sick and had to go see a doctor or a dentist. (Plus whatever fees the doctor or dentist charges.)
Now here is Joe Blow, a local carpenter making $11.00 an hour, provided he still has a job when he gets out, with a bill of $2000.00 plus court costs of $350.00, plus public defenders fee (Oh yes, they do.) of $150.00 and a fine of $750.00 and a mandatory anger management class in some podunk Doctors office for another $450.00. When it's all said and done this poor working stiff owes in the neighborhood of $4000.00 payable in monthly installments.
It's a racket, and they all abide by the unspoken rules, or maybe they are spoken, I don't know. But it damn sure goes down like that over and over. But it keeps the taxes low, and that will get you re-elected every time with the poor economies here. ( And once you have a felony, you can't vote ever again, so you may know they're crooks, but you can't vote them out once you've been in deep enough to see how it works. And when you tell people about it, they flat don't believe you, because that just can't happen in America.)
Now how do I know all this? I had a good friend spend ten years on death row before he was freed for a crime he didn't commit. I saw a lot, and I saw the system working in ways most Americans never think could be. I watched witnesses being bought with reduced sentences for testimony. I saw enough to puke a buzzard.
While a lot of you on these boards worry about what it would be like in a police state, I live in one. If you want to visit a place like that, it's not too far away, just dress down so you'll fit in. Go to the Rosebud Reservation in S.D. and watch Native Americans being legally rolled by the justice system. Go to rural Mississippi and watch the poor being harvested for their cash. Go to southeast Oklahoma and see the law west of the Pecos in action. (Note: you'll have to infiltrate these kinds of places, you won't see anything worse than the city slicker and the speed trap otherwise, because outsiders are treated nice, but they aren't allowed to see how things really work.)
Am I mad? Hell yes. But I'm old, and I've learned a few secrets of surviving in the Fatherland. And if times get too much worse, I've got a place to go. There's no illusion to the police state that is taking over America, it already has a good toehold now. Soon enough they'll come for those with more cash, better jobs, a brighter future.
Your turn is coming.
Now these two nations coexist superimposed over each other. If you are driving a one year old Lexus, have on some gold jewelry, and sporting a $60.00 haircut, you live in Upper America.
And if you are driving a six year old Chevy, wearing blue jeans and and runover cowboy boots, you live in Lower America.
Now I grant you that there is some spillover between these two states, but our men in blue make an art form out of judging who has the time and money to fight them.
And they use two sets of rules with these two groups. They'll still bust the rich, but the rich view it as the cost of doing business, and the Scooter Libbys and Paris Hiltons of this world always come out on top, because they have the money to win, even when they lose.
And then you have rural America. The heartland. Small town America with all their dirty little secrets. Places from Ga. to MN. to WV to NM. Places that National Geographic prints pictures of. Places often called "close knit", which is a codeword for keeping their secret ways a secret.
Here the sheriff and the judge are second cousins, the town cop is married to the mayors daughter, and the whole town council have known each other since grade school. The only two lawyers that the judge will even listen to are good drinking buddies of the prosecuting attorney.
Now if you are from out of town, too bad. You can have the best lawyer that Oklahoma City has to offer, and it will not do you one ounce of good. These people will lie till Hell freezes over before they will let one of their own get charged with anything. They will pile up false charges faster than you can count them, if that's what it takes.
Not only that, they don't put much stock in the concept of rights, being 90% brainwashed since birth to the good conservative Christian values. And anyway, you must be guilty of something, or the cop wouldn't have stopped you. ( An attitude that you can find right here on ATS from the apologizers corner.)
Now when you add to that the fact that these towns are struggling for money, and they are not about to let the least amount of revenue slip past. I know of counties here that charge you for your stay in jail if they can convict you, and they will convict you of something.
Their favorite trick is to pile up ten or twelve charges, some carrying up to ten years or so, knowing the person they arrest has no money to put up $100,000.00 bail for a charge of assault and resisting arrest and endangering a child and whatever else they can add. ( All over some incident that should have been a simple assault at most for having a loud argument with a spouse.)
After a about three months on commodity free food in the roach infested things that pass for jails, they'll plead it down to the simple assault, give them time served, and let them out. The catch is that they now owe the county $20.00 per day for room and board, $10.00 if a nurse had to come back and see them for anything, and upwards of $75.00 if they really got sick and had to go see a doctor or a dentist. (Plus whatever fees the doctor or dentist charges.)
Now here is Joe Blow, a local carpenter making $11.00 an hour, provided he still has a job when he gets out, with a bill of $2000.00 plus court costs of $350.00, plus public defenders fee (Oh yes, they do.) of $150.00 and a fine of $750.00 and a mandatory anger management class in some podunk Doctors office for another $450.00. When it's all said and done this poor working stiff owes in the neighborhood of $4000.00 payable in monthly installments.
It's a racket, and they all abide by the unspoken rules, or maybe they are spoken, I don't know. But it damn sure goes down like that over and over. But it keeps the taxes low, and that will get you re-elected every time with the poor economies here. ( And once you have a felony, you can't vote ever again, so you may know they're crooks, but you can't vote them out once you've been in deep enough to see how it works. And when you tell people about it, they flat don't believe you, because that just can't happen in America.)
Now how do I know all this? I had a good friend spend ten years on death row before he was freed for a crime he didn't commit. I saw a lot, and I saw the system working in ways most Americans never think could be. I watched witnesses being bought with reduced sentences for testimony. I saw enough to puke a buzzard.
While a lot of you on these boards worry about what it would be like in a police state, I live in one. If you want to visit a place like that, it's not too far away, just dress down so you'll fit in. Go to the Rosebud Reservation in S.D. and watch Native Americans being legally rolled by the justice system. Go to rural Mississippi and watch the poor being harvested for their cash. Go to southeast Oklahoma and see the law west of the Pecos in action. (Note: you'll have to infiltrate these kinds of places, you won't see anything worse than the city slicker and the speed trap otherwise, because outsiders are treated nice, but they aren't allowed to see how things really work.)
Am I mad? Hell yes. But I'm old, and I've learned a few secrets of surviving in the Fatherland. And if times get too much worse, I've got a place to go. There's no illusion to the police state that is taking over America, it already has a good toehold now. Soon enough they'll come for those with more cash, better jobs, a brighter future.
Your turn is coming.
Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
Originally posted by annestacey
Who's to say the average cop isn't experiencing increasing amounts of "suggestion" from the higher ups? As our society gets more increasingly violent, the cops are forced to increase their own behaviors in order to control situations.
We are all being brainwashed in the same way. Have you seen the increasing number of violent shows that are on TV and called "entertainment"? Try Court TV. In addition to shows like "Forensic Files" and "Body of Evidence" and "North Mission Road", you've got back-to-back episodes of "Cops", "Most Shocking", "World's Wildest Police Videos". And if you flip the channel over to MSNBC, you've got back-to-back episodes of "Lockup" and "To Catch a Predator".
You also have the fictional crime dramas such as "CSI", "CSI Miami", "CSI New York", "Prison Break", "Without a Trace", "Law and Order", "Law and Order SVU", "Law and Order Criminal Intent"... the list goes on and on.
You make great points regarding our viewing material in the United States, however where are you going with this? I feel like you are on the cusp of something great. Are you suggesting that the powers that be want to sedate us all with violent viewing to influence our behavior on the streets?
Look at the programs that air on the A&E network as well. From 48 hours to Dog the Bounty hunter. Why are these kinds of programs being aired? Are the powers that be de-sensitizing us to a police state via violent and perverse programming? If not a police state, then what?
[edit on 7-7-2007 by LooseLipsSinkShips]
Yes that is where I was going with my statements. My entry got posted before I was finished with what I was going to say and I went to bed instead of editing it.
I do think that the TV programs we watch are desensitizing us to the idea of being arrested and locked up for any reason. The more you see things being repeated, the more comfortable you become with them.
There was another thread that discussed the whole Paris Hilton saga and someone stated that the more often you see a celebrity getting special treatment, the more you get used to it and the next time it's not a surprise.
People get used to seeing repeated incidents and become accustomed to it and know that there is nothing they can do about it. I think it's an effective method of desensitization.
Originally posted by eyewitness86
I have an idea, Elavatedone: Why don't we just get down and worship the cops as long as we are saying " Yes Sir " and all that other sickening nonsense. WHY should they be in an elevated position over us? That is NOT what the Constitution is there for.
You sound like the typical victim of the system; people who kowtow and say " Yassuh Master Officer, Yassuh, whatever you say Sir, just please don't beat me and abuse my rights, please..pretty please.." How disgusting! The reason the cops are getting more and more brutal and violating more and more rights is this:
Huh, and here I thought that being polite was just common courtesy. I don't know about you, but that's just how a lot of people are towards strangers. Using words like "please", "thank you", "sir" or "ma'am" aren't signs of bowing down or elevating them, it's just being polite.
And when you think about it, there's no legal mandate for putting the cops on an elevated position, but the least you can do is respect them enough to show some courtesy. For one thing, they're people too. And those men and women are risking their lives just by putting on the uniform. There's a lot of nasty stuff in this world, and the police are the one's that usually deal with it. So you don't have to give up your rights or anything, but at the very least treat them like any other person.
Originally posted by andy1033
Have you ever seen a good cop. Bet all of them have deliberately murdered people(i.e by destroying there lives).
Just my two cents
If you 2 cents is about spewing hate, KEEP IT!
I know pleanty of good police officers who do a lot to help people. In fact, a good long-time Friend of mine named Mike Doracy is a police officer at the local Wilkens station. You know what his Primary job is?
He teaches SAFETY the children. He visits schools, scout units, and youth organizations teching young people about the dangers of stranges, How to get help in an emergency, and how to avoid being abused.
You post shows an insaulting level of Ignorance about the vital service these men and women provide to our communities in their mission to Protect and Serve! You should really be ashamed!
Tim
Sigh...ONCE again, I will say it.Ther are good cops and bad cops, of course. But the FACT is that MOST, the vast majority, of cops WILL violate the
law to make a charge stick. That means that most cops are perjurers and liars and felons. That means that most cops cannot be trusted at all.
Sure, if you want to say SIR and MA'AM that is fine. No problem. I choose not to as it seems to put me in a lesser category; anyone who has been in the military knows that you call the Officer SIR but he does not call you that as you are NOT an officer, get it? We are all enlisted men to the cops, and they are all the officers. So they regard us from the get-go as lesser than they are, at least in a way.
But the whole point is that we are far past having cops that care about the Rights of the People; that is a fact. On my thread : Constitutional Rights for Citizens: Police Contact, I will be sharing very soon some actual cases that point out quite well just how the system works and how to use it to your best advantage.
And my friend above who went thru hell with some very bad cops, you are right aboiut much of what you say, for sure. BUT, if you get an attorney, and that attorney does not represent you fully and professionally, you can make his life a misery by filing Bar complaints ,etc.
It does not matter if you are in Chicago or Podunk Vermont; the Federal laws are the same everywhere and CAN be used. Since you did not have an attorney, you blew it; But if you had, cases can be moved due to prejudicial factors, appeals can be filed that can move the matter to Federal court, there are MANY alternatives to just getting screwed by the cops, no matter HOW ignorant and corrupt and devious and scheming they are. They are NOT above the law, even though they act that way, and if you pursue a case, you can win.
Pro se cases get won often; not even an attorney is needed to file but it is the best way for sure. but you CAN do it yourself with info and work. Yes, the people with money will have the better deal, they always do. But that doesn't mean it is hopeless. But get a lawyer next time and see how different it can be.
Sure, if you want to say SIR and MA'AM that is fine. No problem. I choose not to as it seems to put me in a lesser category; anyone who has been in the military knows that you call the Officer SIR but he does not call you that as you are NOT an officer, get it? We are all enlisted men to the cops, and they are all the officers. So they regard us from the get-go as lesser than they are, at least in a way.
But the whole point is that we are far past having cops that care about the Rights of the People; that is a fact. On my thread : Constitutional Rights for Citizens: Police Contact, I will be sharing very soon some actual cases that point out quite well just how the system works and how to use it to your best advantage.
And my friend above who went thru hell with some very bad cops, you are right aboiut much of what you say, for sure. BUT, if you get an attorney, and that attorney does not represent you fully and professionally, you can make his life a misery by filing Bar complaints ,etc.
It does not matter if you are in Chicago or Podunk Vermont; the Federal laws are the same everywhere and CAN be used. Since you did not have an attorney, you blew it; But if you had, cases can be moved due to prejudicial factors, appeals can be filed that can move the matter to Federal court, there are MANY alternatives to just getting screwed by the cops, no matter HOW ignorant and corrupt and devious and scheming they are. They are NOT above the law, even though they act that way, and if you pursue a case, you can win.
Pro se cases get won often; not even an attorney is needed to file but it is the best way for sure. but you CAN do it yourself with info and work. Yes, the people with money will have the better deal, they always do. But that doesn't mean it is hopeless. But get a lawyer next time and see how different it can be.
Hey Ghost01: Ask your cop pal to swear to you on a Bible or whatever he deems sacred ( if there IS anything he holds sacred except his power over us
), and ask him to swear to you on his soul that he has never : testified untruthfully in court , arrested a person for less than proper probable
cause, lied to the public about their rights or his rights, filed a false affadavit to get a warrant or used excessive force on a person.
If says that he has never done these things, than he is either the rarest cop on earth, a liar , or has not had much time on the streets or in court. That cop buddy of yours will look the other way when one of his fellow cops abuses a person, he will cover up and hide evidence of police wrongdoing, as they all will, and he will deny civil rights to the public if he feels like it. So your " saint ' of a cop is just doing school duty right now lying to the kids about drugs, like the DARE liars do, he is intimidating kids with his gun and handcuffs and other accoutrements of his job, etc.
Sure, maybe he is a nice guy personally, but he is a cop, and that means that when the chips are down , he will side with them no matter what the truth is. If one of his buddies blew your brains out for no reason he would cover it up and not think a thing about it, so great friend he is!!
Take sides and pick which you are on, either you are on the side of those who routinely break the law without compunction and see it as " OK for them " ( the cops ) or else be on the side of the PEOPLE, the ones that the cops violate regularly. But be careful, if you choose up wrong you may find out just how loyal and true cops are; not to you but to each other. The cops will stab you in the back and laugh, you are a CIVILIAN, a nobody..prison fodder, useless to them except as a taxpayer that pays the cops salaries and then is expected to shut up and obey. NOT ME!!
Until a cop shows me that he is willing to strictly follow the law and observe my rights, he is an enemy, a foe, a traitor to the Constitution and to be held in the lowest esteem possible. Let THEM prove it first!! Let THEM call ME SIR and show me that they are doing the job right; THEN and only then would I give them the slightest consideration.
They are there getting paid to SERVE US, not to rule over us and abuse us and intimidate us; the hell with cops who break the law, and that is the vast majority, no doubt close to the 99% that the Chief of Police in Seattle said he thought was accurate for perjury. I believe the Chief, 99% of all cops are scum and lawbreakers and fascists; I respect the 1 % that is not, and they are hard to find.
If says that he has never done these things, than he is either the rarest cop on earth, a liar , or has not had much time on the streets or in court. That cop buddy of yours will look the other way when one of his fellow cops abuses a person, he will cover up and hide evidence of police wrongdoing, as they all will, and he will deny civil rights to the public if he feels like it. So your " saint ' of a cop is just doing school duty right now lying to the kids about drugs, like the DARE liars do, he is intimidating kids with his gun and handcuffs and other accoutrements of his job, etc.
Sure, maybe he is a nice guy personally, but he is a cop, and that means that when the chips are down , he will side with them no matter what the truth is. If one of his buddies blew your brains out for no reason he would cover it up and not think a thing about it, so great friend he is!!
Take sides and pick which you are on, either you are on the side of those who routinely break the law without compunction and see it as " OK for them " ( the cops ) or else be on the side of the PEOPLE, the ones that the cops violate regularly. But be careful, if you choose up wrong you may find out just how loyal and true cops are; not to you but to each other. The cops will stab you in the back and laugh, you are a CIVILIAN, a nobody..prison fodder, useless to them except as a taxpayer that pays the cops salaries and then is expected to shut up and obey. NOT ME!!
Until a cop shows me that he is willing to strictly follow the law and observe my rights, he is an enemy, a foe, a traitor to the Constitution and to be held in the lowest esteem possible. Let THEM prove it first!! Let THEM call ME SIR and show me that they are doing the job right; THEN and only then would I give them the slightest consideration.
They are there getting paid to SERVE US, not to rule over us and abuse us and intimidate us; the hell with cops who break the law, and that is the vast majority, no doubt close to the 99% that the Chief of Police in Seattle said he thought was accurate for perjury. I believe the Chief, 99% of all cops are scum and lawbreakers and fascists; I respect the 1 % that is not, and they are hard to find.
A poster named "magic mushroom" distrusts the police???? How . . . pyschedelic. Even when the police are corrupt and evil, there is still
strategies the individual can employ
instructional video from Chris Rock (profanity, violent images)
[edit on 12-7-2007 by dr_strangecraft]
instructional video from Chris Rock (profanity, violent images)
[edit on 12-7-2007 by dr_strangecraft]
Originally posted by eyewitness86
Until a cop shows me that he is willing to strictly follow the law and observe my rights, he is an enemy, a foe, a traitor to the Constitution and to be held in the lowest esteem possible. Let THEM prove it first!! Let THEM call ME SIR and show me that they are doing the job right; THEN and only then would I give them the slightest consideration.
I'm sorry but I just have to say this; that down right disgusts me. To think that you can honestly say that you would show a man or woman absolutely no respect because of a stereotype that you have in your mind. I mean really, if we're going to assume that every cop out there is going to violate your rights before he has a chance to prove otherwise, why don't we assume that all Mexicans are illegal while we're at it?
And to think that you're here spewing on about how all police don't think anything of respecting their rights, your logic is completely against one of the most sacred principles of law. You know that one that says "innocent until proven guilty"? Yeah, your statements are basically saying that all cops are "guilty until proven innocent".
Maybe it's just me, but maybe, just maybe you wouldn't have these problems with police if you would just show common courtesy.
Cyber, although I do not agree with all the comments on this thread I think the time for being polite to the Police is well past. Look upon them as a
whole and what they are doing at the behest of the Goverment, they are accounntable in law and to the people yet all that seems to be changing.
The corruption at the top is percolating down to the bottom and the sad fact is that the few good cops will get squeezed out or will leave the force which will leave behind those who will happily do the Goverments bidding be it lawful or not.
Look at it this way you have had your own president say the constitution is just a piece of god dam paper, well no its not, yes it needs reforming but reforming for the better of all American citizens.
You have had 2 rigged elections, a large % of the ppl believe 9/11 was an inside job, foreign invasions/wars based on lies and deceptions and those are just a few things that we know about. How much more is there, again all these actions smack more of Dictatorship than Democracy.
The corruption at the top is percolating down to the bottom and the sad fact is that the few good cops will get squeezed out or will leave the force which will leave behind those who will happily do the Goverments bidding be it lawful or not.
Look at it this way you have had your own president say the constitution is just a piece of god dam paper, well no its not, yes it needs reforming but reforming for the better of all American citizens.
You have had 2 rigged elections, a large % of the ppl believe 9/11 was an inside job, foreign invasions/wars based on lies and deceptions and those are just a few things that we know about. How much more is there, again all these actions smack more of Dictatorship than Democracy.
eyewitness86,
You are entitled to your oppinion, and I will respect that. However, I must ask one thing:
Why are do you seem so Eager to prove this world has no good people left in it who are not Corrupt? I will admit that this world has a lot of really bad people in it who use power to do horrible things.
Do you really believe there is no good anywhere in our world today?
Tim
You are entitled to your oppinion, and I will respect that. However, I must ask one thing:
Why are do you seem so Eager to prove this world has no good people left in it who are not Corrupt? I will admit that this world has a lot of really bad people in it who use power to do horrible things.
Do you really believe there is no good anywhere in our world today?
Tim
I never said or implied in ANY way that' people were corrupt ' or anything like that. I said that COPS are 99% corrupt, and that is quite
believeable.
Norm Stamper, Chief of Police in Seattle, said that he was sure that " 99% of all street cops have commited perjury, mostly for drug cases". I believe the Chief. MOST cops are rotten, MOST cops are perjurers, MOST cops will violate a persons rights to get a case, MOST cops will lie and bully..etc.
It is RARE to find a cop that respects the Constitution, it is rare to find a cop that follows the laws and rules about civilian contacts and it is almost unheard of to find a cop that has not lied to get a warrant. Since the cops cannot be trusted to obey the laws strictly and to respect our rights, why is it so hard to comprehend being cautious and suspicious when dealing with them? It is NOT like cops have the best reputations, is it?
They are REKNOWNED for brutality, not respecting Constitutional rights, lying under oath and many more offenses of law and morality. So WHY should we all fall down trying to show them ' respect '? THEY do not respect us, so why us them? If a cop is professional I have no problem with them, but they are as rare as hen's teeth. MOST cops will coerce people into giving up their rights. WHY? Because it makes their job easier, thats why. What I hate is that it destroys the entire system and degrades us all and devalues the precious Rights we are on the verge of losing alotgether.
I was raised in a police station, my Dad was a cop for thirty years, I am a cop's son. My whole family , just about, were cops. I KNOW the system , I KNOW the attitudes they have, I KNOW the ways they use to skirt the law so they can win. I am not some cherry making guesses!! My Dad;s era was TOTALLY different than the times we are in now, and cops are different too. It is coming down to " US " or " THEM ' , and if you are on the wrong side when things get really bad on the streets you will pay the price, for sure.
Cops have no loyalty to the Constitution, only to each other. Cops have no mercy or compassion for the public, only for each other. Cops break the law all the time, but THAT is OK, RIGHT? Not to me, it is'nt!! WE need to protect ourselves from the cop's because the cop's will use any trick in the book to get an arrest and boost their image with their peers and bosses and your Rights be damned. THAT is the average cop.
So do NOT tell me that we can trust them , or that tyhey deserve respect; WHY should we respect people who : Routinely break the law, commonly perjure themselves, often violate Rights of citizens , use violent force without cause because they are ' mad ' or ' offended ' , and cover up the crimes of their fellow cops. those type people are NOT worthy of respect. Do you respect anyone who spits on the Constitution? Well, cops spit on it and crap on it and tear it in half every time they disregard it to make an arrest or hassle some person.
Cops who violate the Constitution are no better than any other traitor or criminal who shoes no regard for the law and us, and should be seen as scum and loathed by decent people. The MAJORITY of cops are vile, lying lawbreaking perjuring criminals who care nothing about anything except their own sick power trips , so to hell with them. It makes ME sick to think about decent Americans cringing at the thought of standing up to some lying cop and assuming that KOST of them are OK. They are NOT OK!! They are bad and rotten and corrupt and cannot be trusted whatsoever.
I have a tee shirt I wear sometimes when I really have my dander up about cops, it says on the front : " I DARE YOU PIGS TO SEARCH ME WITHOUT A WARRANT!! I was in a Wal Mart shopping when a cop, in uniform, walked toward me and read the shirt. He stopped and came back and said to me " Excuse me, buddy. You seem to have a real attitude about the police ". I said " If you do not allow me to leave this instant, I will go to the Federal court tomorrow and file a Federal civil rights lawsuit and take your job and home and car and savings. If you want to dance with me, you had better be Fred f------ Astair, Mr. "
He turned and walked away shaking his head. Who is HE to bother me in public? Who is HE to stop me on my way and comment to me ? I let all cops know right off the bat that they have a choice, and the choice is this: Follow the law to the letter or face the conse quences. that is what they expect from US, right? Who says they are above us and above the law?
Sure, I am more challenging and obtuse than most, but if it wasn't for guys like me, the cops would be emboldened to the point where we would be victims of their illegal and immoral actions even more often.
Cops ALWAYS tend to the lowest common denominator and will always push the law and the rules to the limits so they can amass more power and control over us. KMost cops would LOVE a law that said that we had to be ' respectful ' to them. they would love it because it would boost their already inflated egos even more. Power, authority , force..these are the things that cops get a woody over, and as long as that is the case, we MUSTY safeguard our rights; we KNOW that the cops will not, so we are all thats left. So while you are smiling and shuffling and kowtowing and grinning and hoping that the cops do not violate your rights, I will be in the trenches trying to secure YOUR rights since you have thrown them away.
Even though they may have no value to you anymore, I think that my kids and their kids may very well need them someday, and I intend to see that they are not swept away by cop worship and people who are too timid to take a stand. Backbone is needed now and sorely lacking; don't worry, I have plenty to make up for your lack until you find your again someday.
Norm Stamper, Chief of Police in Seattle, said that he was sure that " 99% of all street cops have commited perjury, mostly for drug cases". I believe the Chief. MOST cops are rotten, MOST cops are perjurers, MOST cops will violate a persons rights to get a case, MOST cops will lie and bully..etc.
It is RARE to find a cop that respects the Constitution, it is rare to find a cop that follows the laws and rules about civilian contacts and it is almost unheard of to find a cop that has not lied to get a warrant. Since the cops cannot be trusted to obey the laws strictly and to respect our rights, why is it so hard to comprehend being cautious and suspicious when dealing with them? It is NOT like cops have the best reputations, is it?
They are REKNOWNED for brutality, not respecting Constitutional rights, lying under oath and many more offenses of law and morality. So WHY should we all fall down trying to show them ' respect '? THEY do not respect us, so why us them? If a cop is professional I have no problem with them, but they are as rare as hen's teeth. MOST cops will coerce people into giving up their rights. WHY? Because it makes their job easier, thats why. What I hate is that it destroys the entire system and degrades us all and devalues the precious Rights we are on the verge of losing alotgether.
I was raised in a police station, my Dad was a cop for thirty years, I am a cop's son. My whole family , just about, were cops. I KNOW the system , I KNOW the attitudes they have, I KNOW the ways they use to skirt the law so they can win. I am not some cherry making guesses!! My Dad;s era was TOTALLY different than the times we are in now, and cops are different too. It is coming down to " US " or " THEM ' , and if you are on the wrong side when things get really bad on the streets you will pay the price, for sure.
Cops have no loyalty to the Constitution, only to each other. Cops have no mercy or compassion for the public, only for each other. Cops break the law all the time, but THAT is OK, RIGHT? Not to me, it is'nt!! WE need to protect ourselves from the cop's because the cop's will use any trick in the book to get an arrest and boost their image with their peers and bosses and your Rights be damned. THAT is the average cop.
So do NOT tell me that we can trust them , or that tyhey deserve respect; WHY should we respect people who : Routinely break the law, commonly perjure themselves, often violate Rights of citizens , use violent force without cause because they are ' mad ' or ' offended ' , and cover up the crimes of their fellow cops. those type people are NOT worthy of respect. Do you respect anyone who spits on the Constitution? Well, cops spit on it and crap on it and tear it in half every time they disregard it to make an arrest or hassle some person.
Cops who violate the Constitution are no better than any other traitor or criminal who shoes no regard for the law and us, and should be seen as scum and loathed by decent people. The MAJORITY of cops are vile, lying lawbreaking perjuring criminals who care nothing about anything except their own sick power trips , so to hell with them. It makes ME sick to think about decent Americans cringing at the thought of standing up to some lying cop and assuming that KOST of them are OK. They are NOT OK!! They are bad and rotten and corrupt and cannot be trusted whatsoever.
I have a tee shirt I wear sometimes when I really have my dander up about cops, it says on the front : " I DARE YOU PIGS TO SEARCH ME WITHOUT A WARRANT!! I was in a Wal Mart shopping when a cop, in uniform, walked toward me and read the shirt. He stopped and came back and said to me " Excuse me, buddy. You seem to have a real attitude about the police ". I said " If you do not allow me to leave this instant, I will go to the Federal court tomorrow and file a Federal civil rights lawsuit and take your job and home and car and savings. If you want to dance with me, you had better be Fred f------ Astair, Mr. "
He turned and walked away shaking his head. Who is HE to bother me in public? Who is HE to stop me on my way and comment to me ? I let all cops know right off the bat that they have a choice, and the choice is this: Follow the law to the letter or face the conse quences. that is what they expect from US, right? Who says they are above us and above the law?
Sure, I am more challenging and obtuse than most, but if it wasn't for guys like me, the cops would be emboldened to the point where we would be victims of their illegal and immoral actions even more often.
Cops ALWAYS tend to the lowest common denominator and will always push the law and the rules to the limits so they can amass more power and control over us. KMost cops would LOVE a law that said that we had to be ' respectful ' to them. they would love it because it would boost their already inflated egos even more. Power, authority , force..these are the things that cops get a woody over, and as long as that is the case, we MUSTY safeguard our rights; we KNOW that the cops will not, so we are all thats left. So while you are smiling and shuffling and kowtowing and grinning and hoping that the cops do not violate your rights, I will be in the trenches trying to secure YOUR rights since you have thrown them away.
Even though they may have no value to you anymore, I think that my kids and their kids may very well need them someday, and I intend to see that they are not swept away by cop worship and people who are too timid to take a stand. Backbone is needed now and sorely lacking; don't worry, I have plenty to make up for your lack until you find your again someday.
Cyberdude78: Do you REALLy believe that the COPS consider you " innocent until proven guilty " ? Not on THIS planet!! They consider EVERYONE
guilty until proven innocent! It has always been that way. Innocence means NOTHING to a cop or prosecutor, ONLY if they can perjure themselves without
getting exposed so a conviction can be had. Convictions are the name of the game, and arrest quotas also.
And WHY in the world would I assume that a cop will NOT violate my rights? It is COMMON for them to do so, and I can prove it. You say we should wait until they actually violate our Rights before we take steps to protect ourselves, is that correct? Sorry, since MOST cops WILL break the law to get their way, that means that they CANNOT be trusted, and we CANNOT assume that they are really the 1% we are dealing with. What are the odds that YOU are going to get the one cop out of a thousand that will actually respect your rights and not violate the law themselves? Beyond astronomical, ridiculous odds.
No, sadly, the average citizen stopped for a traffic ' offense ' will be asked to GIVE UP THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS by the cop's, so the cop's can conduct a fishing expedition, called a ' search by consent ' so they can find some contraband and arrest the citizens. If the citizen states that they REFUSE a search, then the cop's ROUTINELY, COMMONLY start the game of intimidation and law breaking. Cops' will spend massive time and effort to get a citizen to GIVE UP their rights because Rights are seen as mere nuisances to be gotten around, that is how little cop's respect the Constitution.
So YES, I judge MOST cop's on the basis of FACT. MOST cops WILL violate the law without compunction in order to ' get ' someone. MOST will lie under oath to get a conviction. MOST will use excess force in order to punish and torture people that ' make them mad '.
Cops are like vicious dogs; useful to guard a junkyard, but when in the public domain they MUST be on a leash and muzzled or they will bite and snap at the slightest provocation. They are a danger to society as they are now, and radical change is needed to reign them back in to where they are ' peace officers ' once again, and not bullying, demanding , violent lawbreakers who care nothing about our rights. No one can even claim that I am wrong!! The majority ARE bad, that is well known to anyone who has experience.
I believe that the people here who think the cop's are so sweet and nice and honest simply have never had any real experience with cop's. they are living in the world of ' what if ' and I am in the real world, the world of what is real and normal for them. Until some vicious, bullying cop steps in and deals with YOU, do not assume the best. You just have not seen them at the normal worst yet, that's all.
All one has to do, if one can stomach it, is to watch a few episodes of the COP'S shows on TV and see over and over the cop's violating rights and breaking the law. It sickens me that some people actually approve of such crimes against the Constitution. Looking at cop's as ' heroe's ' is an awful way to show who you admire; if lawbreaking, violent , perjuring cop's are your idea of a role model, then you have some reall issues to deal with, not me. We are almost at the stage of a police state, and yet many just see the violations of Rights as a non-issue. How sad.
Cop's are not like any other people; as civilians we think and act the same in most ways no matter what. But, when a cop puts on the uniform, he becomes a partisan player in a game rigged from the get-go. He does not see you as his neighbor anymore, only as a potential arrest. your Rights are a laughing matter to them; I have heard cop's make big jokes about violating rights, and they are sick and un-American for hating our founding documents so much that they ignore them at will. Respect a cop? Sure I will, when I see one that follows the law, the Constitution and who shows real and genuine respect for the citizen they are bothering and for the Constitution that they have SWORN to uphold and defend.
Since all cops swear to uphold and defend the Constitution, and since the vast majority of cop's will violate the Constitutional rights of citizens, it follows that the vast majorioty of cop's are in violation of their Oath's and should be held in the highest suspicion. If a cop will disregard the Constitution, he will disregard your rights and mine. That being a fact, the public is well advised to take ALL precautions when dealing with the cop's; any other choice leaves us open to abuse, false charges, illegal searches and false arrests with no way to protest later if we should go along with their disgusting requests to GIVE UP our precious Rights.
Is the average cop going to look out for your rights? NO. So YOU had better, don't you think? The cop's are NOT our friends, not our protectors, they are either our servants or our Masters, the choice is yours. I prefer to be the Master of my own destiny, thank you, not some perjuring, lying, Constitution violating cop who has the morals of an alley cat and the temperament of a deranged and rabid junkyard dog.
There is an old Arab saying " Trust in God, but tie up your camel "! Trust the cop's if you wish, but make sure that YOU know and use your Rights, because the cop's will leave you stranded and dying alone in the desert as a reward for trusting them. Better keep the leash short and an eye open at all times, lest your journey turn into a fight for survival.
Take your choice: Who do YOU trust? Your attorney and the law and the Constitution or a lying, perjuring vicious cop with an agenda that is far from what is called for or right legally? I made my choice long ago, better make your's while you still can; believe me, if the cop's could get laws passed that totally stripped us of all rights, they would be celebrating like lottery winners, salivating at the thought of ever more intrusive and rights' destroying power over us. That would be their perfect world, with them Lords over us all. Their dream is OUR nightmare; better wake up before your false vision of cop's and how they think is shattered by reality.
Just read the sickening and massive number of police misconduct reports nationwide, think it is the minority of cops? No way! MOST are bad, MOST will lie and perjure, MOST will abuse; if that is the sort of people YOU want enforcing the laws, God help us.
And WHY in the world would I assume that a cop will NOT violate my rights? It is COMMON for them to do so, and I can prove it. You say we should wait until they actually violate our Rights before we take steps to protect ourselves, is that correct? Sorry, since MOST cops WILL break the law to get their way, that means that they CANNOT be trusted, and we CANNOT assume that they are really the 1% we are dealing with. What are the odds that YOU are going to get the one cop out of a thousand that will actually respect your rights and not violate the law themselves? Beyond astronomical, ridiculous odds.
No, sadly, the average citizen stopped for a traffic ' offense ' will be asked to GIVE UP THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS by the cop's, so the cop's can conduct a fishing expedition, called a ' search by consent ' so they can find some contraband and arrest the citizens. If the citizen states that they REFUSE a search, then the cop's ROUTINELY, COMMONLY start the game of intimidation and law breaking. Cops' will spend massive time and effort to get a citizen to GIVE UP their rights because Rights are seen as mere nuisances to be gotten around, that is how little cop's respect the Constitution.
So YES, I judge MOST cop's on the basis of FACT. MOST cops WILL violate the law without compunction in order to ' get ' someone. MOST will lie under oath to get a conviction. MOST will use excess force in order to punish and torture people that ' make them mad '.
Cops are like vicious dogs; useful to guard a junkyard, but when in the public domain they MUST be on a leash and muzzled or they will bite and snap at the slightest provocation. They are a danger to society as they are now, and radical change is needed to reign them back in to where they are ' peace officers ' once again, and not bullying, demanding , violent lawbreakers who care nothing about our rights. No one can even claim that I am wrong!! The majority ARE bad, that is well known to anyone who has experience.
I believe that the people here who think the cop's are so sweet and nice and honest simply have never had any real experience with cop's. they are living in the world of ' what if ' and I am in the real world, the world of what is real and normal for them. Until some vicious, bullying cop steps in and deals with YOU, do not assume the best. You just have not seen them at the normal worst yet, that's all.
All one has to do, if one can stomach it, is to watch a few episodes of the COP'S shows on TV and see over and over the cop's violating rights and breaking the law. It sickens me that some people actually approve of such crimes against the Constitution. Looking at cop's as ' heroe's ' is an awful way to show who you admire; if lawbreaking, violent , perjuring cop's are your idea of a role model, then you have some reall issues to deal with, not me. We are almost at the stage of a police state, and yet many just see the violations of Rights as a non-issue. How sad.
Cop's are not like any other people; as civilians we think and act the same in most ways no matter what. But, when a cop puts on the uniform, he becomes a partisan player in a game rigged from the get-go. He does not see you as his neighbor anymore, only as a potential arrest. your Rights are a laughing matter to them; I have heard cop's make big jokes about violating rights, and they are sick and un-American for hating our founding documents so much that they ignore them at will. Respect a cop? Sure I will, when I see one that follows the law, the Constitution and who shows real and genuine respect for the citizen they are bothering and for the Constitution that they have SWORN to uphold and defend.
Since all cops swear to uphold and defend the Constitution, and since the vast majority of cop's will violate the Constitutional rights of citizens, it follows that the vast majorioty of cop's are in violation of their Oath's and should be held in the highest suspicion. If a cop will disregard the Constitution, he will disregard your rights and mine. That being a fact, the public is well advised to take ALL precautions when dealing with the cop's; any other choice leaves us open to abuse, false charges, illegal searches and false arrests with no way to protest later if we should go along with their disgusting requests to GIVE UP our precious Rights.
Is the average cop going to look out for your rights? NO. So YOU had better, don't you think? The cop's are NOT our friends, not our protectors, they are either our servants or our Masters, the choice is yours. I prefer to be the Master of my own destiny, thank you, not some perjuring, lying, Constitution violating cop who has the morals of an alley cat and the temperament of a deranged and rabid junkyard dog.
There is an old Arab saying " Trust in God, but tie up your camel "! Trust the cop's if you wish, but make sure that YOU know and use your Rights, because the cop's will leave you stranded and dying alone in the desert as a reward for trusting them. Better keep the leash short and an eye open at all times, lest your journey turn into a fight for survival.
Take your choice: Who do YOU trust? Your attorney and the law and the Constitution or a lying, perjuring vicious cop with an agenda that is far from what is called for or right legally? I made my choice long ago, better make your's while you still can; believe me, if the cop's could get laws passed that totally stripped us of all rights, they would be celebrating like lottery winners, salivating at the thought of ever more intrusive and rights' destroying power over us. That would be their perfect world, with them Lords over us all. Their dream is OUR nightmare; better wake up before your false vision of cop's and how they think is shattered by reality.
Just read the sickening and massive number of police misconduct reports nationwide, think it is the minority of cops? No way! MOST are bad, MOST will lie and perjure, MOST will abuse; if that is the sort of people YOU want enforcing the laws, God help us.
Originally posted by eyewitness86
Cyberdude78: Do you REALLy believe that the COPS consider you " innocent until proven guilty " ? Not on THIS planet!! They consider EVERYONE guilty until proven innocent! It has always been that way. Innocence means NOTHING to a cop or prosecutor, ONLY if they can perjure themselves without getting exposed so a conviction can be had. Convictions are the name of the game, and arrest quotas also.
That is just such pure d crap. I've never perjured myself, I've never administered a beating. I knew bad cops, but their careers were short, and all of them are barred for life from ever getting a peace officer's comission ever again; and it shows up in a background check through the FBI database.
There are SO many criminals, the cops and prosecutors don't have time to waste trying to pin stuff on people they know are innocent.
Innocence and guilt are the whole point of law enforcement, and you talking out your back passage is typical of people who have NO life experience other than video games and yet consider themselves wise. The propaganda you spew shows just how little you know about anything other than your own hatred for people you don't know personally.
If you'd ever travelled in the developing world, you'd know that most countries don't even have police per se, just soldiers who occupy their own territory. Hell, go spend a weekend in Juarez, and come back and then lecture us all about police brutality. Or maybe you'd rather try Singapore, or Cairo . . . cities where I've seen up close the kind of brutality you only dream of in your feti#ic bondage-fantasies of American law enforcement.
P.S. "Arrest quotas" aren't "the name of the game" either.
I've never heard of a department with "arrest quotas." Since jails are usually overcrowded anyway, and it costs several hundred dollars a day off a thin budget just to hold a cooperative prisoner for 3 meals. And you definitely hear about it if you wasted department funds on an arrest that wouldn't stick. And probably from the defendant's lawyers, costing millions potentially.
Yet upon further consideration, there's probably a bit of truth to this thread. I think I was excellent at my job, and did a more than a little to make my jurisdiction a safe and fair place to live. I also left law enforcement, nearly a decade ago now, because of the intolerable working conditions: low pay, and perps that were allowed to run amok, abusing the system, while all scrutiny was on the police. That, and the crappy attitude of people (similar to the trollish posts on this thread) led me to find a more reward occupation.
So, you sleep in the bed you make. When the job becomes unbearable, only thugs will be willing to do it.
That said, the Chris Rock video goes straight to the heart of the matter. Cops, like everyone else, tend to match emotions. If you pull an attitude on a man with a club or gun, don't be surprised by the attitude you receive.
Finally, as over the top as some US cops can be, you still have FAR more rights in the US than you do elsewhere, including England.
In the US, police don't search your home without a warrant, just to find out whether you are stealing cable TV . . . .
[edit on 13-7-2007 by dr_strangecraft]
I've never heard of a department with "arrest quotas." Since jails are usually overcrowded anyway, and it costs several hundred dollars a day off a thin budget just to hold a cooperative prisoner for 3 meals. And you definitely hear about it if you wasted department funds on an arrest that wouldn't stick. And probably from the defendant's lawyers, costing millions potentially.
Yet upon further consideration, there's probably a bit of truth to this thread. I think I was excellent at my job, and did a more than a little to make my jurisdiction a safe and fair place to live. I also left law enforcement, nearly a decade ago now, because of the intolerable working conditions: low pay, and perps that were allowed to run amok, abusing the system, while all scrutiny was on the police. That, and the crappy attitude of people (similar to the trollish posts on this thread) led me to find a more reward occupation.
So, you sleep in the bed you make. When the job becomes unbearable, only thugs will be willing to do it.
That said, the Chris Rock video goes straight to the heart of the matter. Cops, like everyone else, tend to match emotions. If you pull an attitude on a man with a club or gun, don't be surprised by the attitude you receive.
Finally, as over the top as some US cops can be, you still have FAR more rights in the US than you do elsewhere, including England.
In the US, police don't search your home without a warrant, just to find out whether you are stealing cable TV . . . .
[edit on 13-7-2007 by dr_strangecraft]
eyewitness86, I think we've got some slight misunderstading.
I agree that citizens shouldn't allow unwarranted searches and such. Constitutional rights are by far more important than conveinence. All I'm saying is to be polite when speaking. Not nessesarily because they're better than us, but because they're human being like the rest of us so they deserve to at least be treated as such. Having a few manners tends to go a long way.
I agree that citizens shouldn't allow unwarranted searches and such. Constitutional rights are by far more important than conveinence. All I'm saying is to be polite when speaking. Not nessesarily because they're better than us, but because they're human being like the rest of us so they deserve to at least be treated as such. Having a few manners tends to go a long way.
Dr s, I think the point you are missing is that the people have a right to challenge the Police and their actions this is clearly not happening. Also
to draw a comparison with despot states is wrong, we are not debating despot states but what is happening inside a Democracy.
As you said you left the force 10 years ago, well alot has happened since then, did people get arrested or locked up for wearing anti Goverment slogans during you time on the force probaly not as you have already stated you were dealing with real and serious criminal activities.
And you make a valid point America has more than its share of murders, rapes, muggings, kidnapping, robberies and illegal drugs so why are the Police dealing with none issue's, the only reason can be is that they have been told to do so.
So you have to ask yourself why with so much more serious crime to deal with why are the Police arresting people for speaking out against the Govemnent.
As you said you left the force 10 years ago, well alot has happened since then, did people get arrested or locked up for wearing anti Goverment slogans during you time on the force probaly not as you have already stated you were dealing with real and serious criminal activities.
And you make a valid point America has more than its share of murders, rapes, muggings, kidnapping, robberies and illegal drugs so why are the Police dealing with none issue's, the only reason can be is that they have been told to do so.
So you have to ask yourself why with so much more serious crime to deal with why are the Police arresting people for speaking out against the Govemnent.
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