Cut the chord: Anti-Semitism and the destruction of the Truth Movement.

Originally posted by PartChimp
Griff, they back up everything in the pdf with evidence. Sometimes circumstantial evidence; the kind you use to link Israel to 9/11.

[edit on 6-6-2007 by PartChimp]

Having Mossad agents there to "document" the event is circumstantial? No wonder we can't see eye to eye.

Originally posted by Crakeur
Griff, even if you skim thru the pdf, you will see a bunch of different conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 that implicate jews in some manner or other. Again, some of these are based on "zionist" this or that but the end result is to drag all jews into this and that is what partchimp is trying to get at. (I think)

Correct; one easy tool on finding out the true intentions of an "Anti-Zionist" is looking for implications that the holocaust is yet another "Zionist conspiracy". I'm sorry, but if you believe that the holocaust was contrived (while it is your complete right to believe such) it is my right to call you a bigot. This is the connection I made with Jeff Rense. I see his website linked to on a daily basis on this web-site, and I feel like if people knew what he was advocating, they would cut him out, and it would be doing them a service.

Originally posted by Griff
Having Mossad agents there to "document" the event is circumstantial? No wonder we can't see eye to eye.

Israel is a nation, no matter if you believe that it is sovereign or not. There are people of all religions that live there, and all sorts of players from the political spectrum that comprise their political infrastructure. Blaming the whole Israel for 9/11 is like blaming the whole of America for invading Iraq. One department of the government does not represent the sentiment of a nation and it's people.

What exactly are you trying to get at?

Originally posted by Crakeur
Now, there are some sites out there that give you all of the theories. these sites don't help to garner attention to the real issues. by linking the anti-semitic theories to the movement, they drag the worst element of society into the mix. in come the neo nazis, the white supremacists, the kkk types. down goes your message.

Thanks for the explaination. I see where you are comming from. And if that was the intent of PartChimp, then I appologize. But, the way it was presented, at least to me, seamed like it was an attempt to actually equate the truth movement to these racist sites.

Racists have used Christianity to spew their hate. Do you see me starting a thread saying "Cut the chord: Anti-Semitism and the destruction of Christianity". Then post some nazi sites that include Christianity. Wouldn't a Christian come in and start saying, "hey, you can't call all Christians anti-semitic". Do you see where I'm comming from at least? Or have I lost my rocker?

Originally posted by PartChimp
Correct; one easy tool on finding out the true intentions of an "Anti-Zionist" is looking for implications that the holocaust is yet another "Zionist conspiracy". I'm sorry, but if you believe that the holocaust was contrived (while it is your complete right to believe such) it is my right to call you a bigot. This is the connection I made with Jeff Rense. I see his website linked to on a daily basis on this web-site, and I feel like if people knew what he was advocating, they would cut him out, and it would be doing them a service.

I agree. I don't go to rense myself. My jewish friend that I mentioned earlier just came back from Europe. He went to Auscwitz (sp?). He was telling me about the rooms of human hair that are still there etc. Very sad. If someone believes the holocaust didn't happen, then I feel sorry for them.

On a side note. He was telling me about a family he met while there and they were telling him about how they escaped from there. Even pointing out things they remembered. Very sad.

Originally posted by Griff
First of all, let's stop using the word jews or jewish when talking about: Israel, Mossad, zionism. Yes, they are jewish people involved in all those but it is not them being jewish that gets me. It's the way they do things.

Yes, five Israelli Mossad dancers are caught filming 9/11 from the beginning and we let them go back to Israel? Only to have them admit on TV that they were to "document" the affair. That right there should send your the hairs on the back of your neck straight up. Let's reiterate. They were there to 'document" the affair. Why didn't they clue the US in on what was going to happen? Because for them to know to document, they had to have had forknowledge. Plain and simple. And we still bend over backwards for Israel our so-called friends.

Just wanted to insert quickly that you are questioning three things;
1)Israel-You are questioning a nation; the logic here I find a bit perverse.
2)Mossad-Your only ample argument.
3)Zionism-You admitted to being completely wrong about your self-admitted uneducated thoughts on the matter, thus making your argument on the subject completely invalid.

So your only valid argument is with the 2 mossad agents. You have no proof for any of the other broad subjects you chose. So why did you choose them?

Originally posted by PartChimp
Blaming the whole Israel for 9/11 is like blaming the whole of America for invading Iraq. One department of the government does not represent the sentiment of a nation and it's people.

OK. I may be wrong but why can't I blame the whole of America for Iraq? I mean if any part of the government didn't want to go, we wouldn't be there correct?

But, I see your point. Can I blame Mossad then? Since it was their agents that were dancing while 3000 of my countrymen were being crushed to death?

Griff, it was never presented that way, bro. That's how you chose to see it. My points are actually very "choose your own adventure-ish". I was never attacking anyone except the ignorant.

Originally posted by PartChimp
So your only valid argument is with the 2 mossad agents. You have no proof for any of the other broad subjects you chose. So why did you choose them?

I choose them because as a nation Israel is to be held accountable for what it as a nation does. Would it be better if I just bashed Sharon instead of Israel? Probably.

As far as zionism. I was wrong about that and I have appologized. But, go ahead and keep bringing it out as a strawman to counter my other points.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by PartChimp
Blaming the whole Israel for 9/11 is like blaming the whole of America for invading Iraq. One department of the government does not represent the sentiment of a nation and it's people.

OK. I may be wrong but why can't I blame the whole of America for Iraq? I mean if any part of the government didn't want to go, we wouldn't be there correct?

But, I see your point. Can I blame Mossad then? Since it was their agents that were dancing while 3000 of my countrymen were being crushed to death?

Absolutely you can blame/question Mossad. It is a valid and mysterious anomaly in a day crammed full of anomalies. Just try to look at it from my position. "Zionism" was a movement started by Jews because they were sick of getting the piss kicked out of them all over the whole of Europe. Once you look deeply in to the "Anti-Zionist", a stunning portion of the the time they are using it as a cover for more sinister philosophy.

Originally posted by PartChimp
Once you look deeply in to the "Anti-Zionist", a stunning portion of the the time they are using it as a cover for more sinister philosophy.

Agreed. And I see your point. More now than yesterday. It's a very touchy subject (for both sides). Take care and my intention was not to derail your thread but to have us come to a conclusion of what anti-semitism really is and what it means. Thanks for the thread because I have learned alot.

My answer to the absolute original intent of the thread? If i was a dedicated activist in the truth movement? Create a secular truth movement. Demonstrate and protest under the banner of a religious-implication free inquisition. Hell you could call it something snazzy like "T.A.S.T.E."; Truth Advocates for the Secular Treatment of Evidence; how do i copyright that?

To add to that thought; this secular research banner could fly over the helm of a wide range of conspiracy theories; eliminating the anti-any religion conspiracies in one fell swoop from the class of the ones that are digging for the real evidence.

Just something I noticed (Incidentally I am a deaf, dumb and blind and therefore cannot be racist. Just call me Jiminy Crackhead.) , but even among the members of a certain ethnic group who will not be named by me, accusations of self-hatred are hurled back and forth in anger. In the long troubled history of humanity a lot of people have been very damaged.

I saw a TV documentary once about this person who had a home for mistreated animals who had been taken from their owners. One of the animals was a beautiful parrot who couldn't stop tearing at himself and pulling out his own feathers. This parrot, and parrots are among the most intelligent of birds, had been mistreated for years by it's owner. Tears of sadness and tears of love flowed simultaneously as I watched how much love the new owner lavished on that unhappy bird.

The ordinary conditions of life itself are enough torment for everyone.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by PartChimp
Griff, they back up everything in the pdf with evidence. Sometimes circumstantial evidence; the kind you use to link Israel to 9/11.

[edit on 6-6-2007 by PartChimp]

Having Mossad agents there to "document" the event is circumstantial? No wonder we can't see eye to eye.

Rubbish. Do you really think Mossad would send young agents to document this? Obviously they never said "document" in a way you think.

Mistranslation.

The whole thing is hogwash. You can't believe a thing said about these so called agents. It's blown up out of proportion by antiemites who don't give a jew the benefit of the doubt.

www.youtube.com...

I would love to get a true translation of this clip.

This is probably where you get your bizarre ideas from.

You know anyone can make a clip, put a voice over on it and post it on youtube.

In fact you are taking the term "we were just there to document it" out of context. They were saying they just happend to be there to document it.

The clip is deliberalty short so you don't get the full context. You don't get the interviewers question either.

Seriously. If Mossad wanted to document this event they would have used more experienced agents and not driven around a white van hollering and shooting out in the open makeing themselves seen.

And I've yet to see any proof of them admitting to being Mossad. because the above clip does not do that.

Might I suggest you are a bit racist* and therefore biased against the Israelis? Hence you didn't have a clear open mind at any point in viewing the evidence?

*the type of subtly indoctrinated racism that is slipped in through boards such as this and the books of people like Icke and that discredited hack Sitchin.

It is shabbily produced, but that doesn't negate the fact that the event is curious, does it albie? We need more answers, less semantics. I will agree with you though; i am not truly convinced by any video clips i have seen on the matter, in regards to them being there to document the event.

I dont think the jews in total are being blamed, just the several dancing and the subversive intelligence agencies involved, who aren't all jewish. I love jews, and i care about islamic people and christians. Im far from anti-semetic, but i believe that the mossad people did have a hand in the towers collapse to give Bush who supports isreal, a way to get over to iraq, bush and friends benefit, Opec benefits, isreal benefits, though im not sad to see saddam gone or bib laden on the run so to speak. just wish it had been done without high treason and tyranny. Thanks prez for screwing the country.

Separete the Zionist from the Semite Jews and you will find the guilty ones plus there will no longer be any need to use the word anti Semitic.