Cut the chord: Anti-Semitism and the destruction of the Truth Movement.

Originally posted by Dark Crystalline
too many horrificly ignorant comments to pick just one

sounds like the education system is still using books from around the time of the third reich. You might want to go back to school and get yourself an edumacation on the history of your country and the history of the region. for starters, legend has it, jews were originally allowed to settle in Hungary after helping King Decebelus settle the region in a fight with Rome. From this point on the jews were mistreated by Hungarian royalty for reasons unknown.

There was an influx of jews with money thanks to the fall of bohemia and
King Andrew II allowed jews to become chamberlains and hold tax official status. He recognized the importance the jewish community had and the nobles of your fine nation then forced the king to deprive jews of these positions (Golden Bull era).
When King Andrew II needed money in 1226 he turned to the jews. He was excommunicated by the pope for this. To reverse the excommunication he agreed to enforce the Golden Bull and in 1233 jews were wearing arm badges. 2 centuries earlier than the jews in nazi germany.

In the early 1300s, after being unable to convert the jews to christianity, they were expelled, only to be recalled when Hungary was in financial distress.

It continues on, with oppression, expulsion, returns when Hungary needs money etc.

Your country has treated the jews like garbage for centuries, except when it needed money.

Yeah, we want to destroy what we helped to build, even tho we were not welcome and often thrown out.

It's funny. When kids today learn about WWII and the atrocities of the holocaust and the way non-aryan people were treated by the nazis (jews, blacks, gays, gypsies etc), they often ask how could this happen. How could a whole nation allow their leaders to do this. How could they go along with it? How could other nations go along with it?

The answer is simple. Ignorance. They all shared this common thread. I don't blame you for thinking this way. I don't blame your education system or your upbringing. I blame the church. Everyone else is just continuing what their ancestors were taught by the church.


edited to add:
apologies for the sidetrack but sometimes it is impossible to stare this kind of behavor in the face and not say anything.


[edit on 5-6-2007 by Crakeur]

Originally posted by PartChimp
For I don't know... the fourth or fifth time, read what I have written. Nowhere do i lump truthers with anti-semites, absolutley nowhere. The original intent was a question poised to the truth-community; how do you get rid of the anti-semetic among you?

I have already answered your question. Since I don't see questioning Mossad, Israel or Zionism as anti-semitic, your point was lost on me. How do we get rid of the anti-semites? Don't go to their sites? Just like the tv. If you don't like what's on, change the channel.

Here is a link to what Zionism really is and why it came about. You may want to read into it.

As for your post, I'm not sure "turning-off" the racist element inside of the truth-community will fix it. It will fix it for you, because you are already tuned in to alternative theories. However, it will not bode well with a father who hears the theory from his son; who in turn goes home and enters a random "zionism and 9/11" search phrase in to a search engine. Not only does he get links to 9/11 conspiracy web-sites, but he gets links to web-sites that advocate holocaust denial. He gets anti-zionist web-sites splashed with images of octopuses branded with the Star of David on it's forehead sprawled over the world.

To the average American, who the truth-movement needs on their side, how do you figure these things will sit? When this dad goes in to work, and stands around at the water cooler talking to his associates, what does he say?

This is why a definition must be created. If you still can't understand, I'm truly sorry.

Ok. I understand fully well what you are getting at.

Can I ask a question of you? Why do you care? I know you are a proponent of the official story. So, why do you care if something hurts the truth movement? The only thing I can think of is you don't. You just wanted to post stuff to make the truth movement look anti-semitic. I know you keep saying that was not the intent, but that is the first reaction I had. Why else would an OCTer care enough to bring this out in the open? Because you care so much of our image?

Sorry. Call em as I see em. Or should I say something about garden tools?

respect truthers for what they are trying to do

Originally posted by Griff
Ok. I understand fully well what you are getting at.

Can I ask a question of you? Why do you care? I know you are a proponent of the official story. So, why do you care if something hurts the truth movement? The only thing I can think of is you don't. You just wanted to post stuff to make the truth movement look anti-semitic. I know you keep saying that was not the intent, but that is the first reaction I had. Why else would an OCTer care enough to bring this out in the open? Because you care so much of our image?

Sorry. Call em as I see em. Or should I say something about garden tools?

Again; you have completely mis-represented what i initially said, and tried to underhandedly attack me again. I said although i lean more toward the official story, i respect truthers for what they are trying to do, but the underbelly of the truth-movement where anti-semitism hides needs to be cut away. If you would have actually read what i wrote, it would be abundantly clear what my purpose here was, but you have decided to shut your eyes and flail your arms about in a pathetic attempt to baselessly attack me. It is your actions that are transparent, and you have continually attempted to corrupt my original purpose of the thread, and you have constantly tried to assault my character simply for a lack of an attention span on your behalf. I have been called a racist for pointing out racism/fascism; I have been called a racist for using an idiom that existed 2.000 years before European or American slave-racism was invented. I have been attacked for using an "incorrect term by definition" that somehow every single person who has posted in this thread understands; now I am being attacked for what, Griff? Trying to "marr" the truth movement?

I could give a damn if you choose to be ignorant to what my purpose in this thread was; I could give a damn if your incessant paranoia is uncontrollable to the point where anyone who disagrees with you is attacking your fundamentals or character. Just stay out of this thread if you lack the ability to rationally debate or explore the topic at hand.


[edit on 5-6-2007 by PartChimp]

Originally posted by PartChimp
I could give a damn if you choose to be ignorant to what my purpose in this thread was; I could give a damn if your incessant paranoia is uncontrollable to the point where anyone who disagrees with you is attacking your fundamentals or character. Just stay out of this thread if you lack the ability to rationally debate or explore the topic at hand.

You are doing the same as you accuse me of. The part where if anyone disagrees with is attacking your fundamentals and character. I only asked a simple question of why an OCTer would give a damn. But, I will go on the premise that you're here to help.

I just did a google search for zionism + 9/11.

Guess what. I don't see the word jew or jewish anywhere. OK. Number 10. "Prominent Arabs blame 9-11 on Jews". That's the only thing that looks anti-semitic to me. And it's not the site that is promoting this but they are reporting this.

Sorry for my so-called vielled atempts at your character. It is just what I thought your agenda was here. If you are truelly here to help, what do you propose needs done to get rid of the anti-semitism?

Here is a PDF that has compiled all of the anti-semitic conspiracies/web-sites in existence. In regards to 9/11, I should add.

Honestly Griff, I am completely frazzled right now. I will try and post gain later, but I am suprememly frustrated (and justly so, i believe) at the moment and i need to log out. The only thing i asked was for people who were attacking me was to actually read what i had written. This request was continually snubbed.

Hopefully I can return to some constructive discussion.

[edit on 5-6-2007 by PartChimp]

Originally posted by Griff
I just did a google search for zionism + 9/11.

Guess what. I don't see the word jew or jewish anywhere. OK. Number 10. "Prominent Arabs blame 9-11 on Jews".

but each and every one of those links will use the word.


the line between anti-semitism (anti-jew for the nitpickers) and anti-zionism is very fine and, sadly, the majority of the world doesn't know the difference. even worse, and I am no accusing anyone of anything so please don't make assumptions, many people who rail against zionism and israel, when pressed, wind up making very anti-semitic (anti-jewish) remarks. In other words, the problem with is twofold. There's the public not always understanding the difference between the two anti's and then there's the anti-semites (antijews) hiding behind the anti-zionism explanation when, in realty, they too lump us all together as one horned beast.

Originally posted by Crakeur
There's the public not always understanding the difference between the two anti's and then there's the anti-semites (antijews) hiding behind the anti-zionism explanation when, in realty, they too lump us all together as one horned beast.

Thanks for the information. I understand that the two anti's are very closely related.

I am not anti anything. I do question the motives of Israel and Mossad though. That doesn't make me anti-semitic.

Now, when talking about zionism. I have a question (especially for Crakeur). What is the premise of zionism today? If zionism was intended for achieving the state of Israel, hasn't that goal already been won? What is the agenda of the zionists today? Just curious.

Originally posted by Griff

I am not anti anything. I do question the motives of Israel and Mossad though. That doesn't make me anti-semitic.

No it does not. I hope you didn't think I was implying it from my post.

Originally posted by Griff
Now, when talking about zionism. I have a question (especially for Crakeur). What is the premise of zionism today? If zionism was intended for achieving the state of Israel, hasn't that goal already been won? What is the agenda of the zionists today? Just curious.

world domination.

perhaps to get all the world's jews back to one place? to return us all to Israel? I'm sure there are some who would welcome this (hungarians for one) and some who will not (the arabs throughout the middle east).

Originally posted by Crakeur
No it does not. I hope you didn't think I was implying it from my post.

No I didn't think that at all. I was just stating it to be sure no one thought I was.

world domination.

perhaps to get all the world's jews back to one place? to return us all to Israel? I'm sure there are some who would welcome this (hungarians for one) and some who will not (the arabs throughout the middle east).

So, comming from a jewish person themself, zionism is about world domination. If I rally against zionism, I'm rallying against the NWO. Not Judeaism. Thanks for reinforcing my stance Crackeur.

Originally posted by Griff
So, comming from a jewish person themself, zionism is about world domination. If I rally against zionism, I'm rallying against the NWO. Not Judeaism. Thanks for reinforcing my stance Crackeur.

dude, I was kidding about the world domination part (damn you sarcasm and your lack of visibility).

edited to add:
in rereading my post with the world domination joke in it, I realize that it should have been understood. how can world domination equate to all the world's jews cramming themselves into a tiny country like Israel?





[edit on 5-6-2007 by Crakeur]

Let me say this------central to the perpetrators defense against any serious ciriticism from people in establishment is the anti-semitism accusation.

I grew UP seeing what happened to the Jews in the Holocaust on various documentaries and was shocked to the core. BUT, what the Israleis are doing to the Palestinians, and their involvement in 9/11, is AS bad if not worse than what Nazis did.
For the reason that , yes the Nazis were completely evil what they did. But they did not have filmed, and written, record of that evil. We have. Yet the Isralies--SOME ISraelies-- have become what they hate.

In fact it was Zionism that CONSPIRED with Nazism, in order for the State of Israel to be!!!

But back on subject. This video is very relevant for subject of this thread:

Open Complicity: Anatomy of the 9/11 Cover-Up video.google.co.uk...


[edit on 5-6-2007 by zoomein]

Originally posted by Crakeur
[dude, I was kidding about the world domination part (damn you sarcasm and your lack of visibility).

Ha. Sorry for not getting the joke. So, that is what zionism is? Trying to get all the jewish people back to one land? I'm not up on zionism but that just sounds moronish to me.


So, I'm still a little confused. What IS zionism today and what does it mean? Because since the jewish people now have their state, there is no reason for zionism to even exist anymore. Am I right?

Originally posted by Griff
So, I'm still a little confused. What IS zionism today and what does it mean? Because since the jewish people now have their state, there is no reason for zionism to even exist anymore. Am I right?

as I said, and I put question marks there because I'm not really sure if it still exists in the form that it did, it might be a movement to now relocate all jews to Israel, as opposed to the old goal of a homeland. I do think that the issue of zionism, as the world sees it, is like the illuminati, the NWO etc, zionists might be more of a bogey man than an actual threat.

Originally posted by Crakeur
I do think that the issue of zionism, as the world sees it, is like the illuminati, the NWO etc

That's actually the way I was looking at it. I guess I was wrong. And I'm man enough to oppollogize to PartChimp for accussing him of wrong doing as it was my ignorance of the subject of zionism that I was arguing.

Originally posted by Crakeur
sounds like the education system is still using books from around the time of the third reich, etc, etc...

The answer is simple. Ignorance, etc, etc...

Now just to make some facts clear, you've started the timeline of Hungary around the 11th century. Well. My nation is quite older and many already tried to vanish the trace of it. The Hungarians have came to this place and formed Hungary around 896A.D. and found the country itself in 1000A.D. But my nation is already existed before it. You're also mistaken about the Golden Bull era, because it's 22nd point is stating, Jewish person cannot fulfill any sort of official government and other important positions, because they cannot be trusted and they're betraying everyone within a blink. So, again here is someone, who isn trying to faking history, our Hungarian history and telling that Jews were really important in my country, but you're mistaken. Or if you know this mistake, you're simply lieing. In my country, Jews were thieves, nothing more. That's why they were expelled many times from here. And we never recalled them. Unfortunately they came, without our call. The Greatest Hungarians are always prohibited the Jews to fulfill any important positions, because when a Jew got there, the country is started to fall immediately. Oh. And one thing. Have you ever heard about the renegade Kopany? The first Jew who is betrayed and wanted to destroy my country, Hungary before the Golden Bull era? Yes. That traitor was a Jew too. The first one, who turned against us before we did anything against the Jews. He wanted to destroy our country that time too. But he failed and has been executed. So, the Jews started this war against us, not we. But then, sorry, if you betrayed us once, you will betray us always. And we're not let this to happen.

So, do you really know anything about my people, or you just used wikipedia to add some interesting info to it. Or you learned all these in a Jewish History Faking School? If someone is ignorant from two of us, that's you. Jews always searched for trouble in my country, betrayed us without reasons and then they're whining about the consequences. But they cannot mess with my people. You never built anything in my country, just wanted to destroy her, like everything else all around the world. Hungarians are always protected, guided and guarded by Guardian Angels. Jews are guided and controlled by Demons (That's why they expelled Angels from their religion and left the Demons in it. Demon lover warmongering fanatics.). That's the sad fact. You're the bad guys. We're just defending what is rightfully ours.

[edit on 5-6-2007 by Dark Crystalline]

double post. eep.

[edit on 5-6-2007 by PartChimp]

Originally posted by Griff
That's actually the way I was looking at it. I guess I was wrong. And I'm man enough to oppollogize to PartChimp for accussing him of wrong doing as it was my ignorance of the subject of zionism that I was arguing.

Griff; thanks. Seriously.

See what I'm talking about? The evidence is directly above my post.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Once again...

Why are you not outraged that Mossad agents were CHEERING as 3000 of your fellow Americans were killed???

Is Israel THAT great a country? So great that you won't say a WORD against them or their secret service, even when their govt agents CHEER as your fellow countrymen die in a terror attack?

Cut the crap now. I want an answer to this question. And if you don't have the nuts to answer, an admission of this heart-set will satisfy me as well.

Truth , I had to respond sir, we kinda butted heads yesterday in another thread but i kinda misinterpreted your stance. I recently lost a close friend over in the Sand hell of babylon and wasnt thinking straight. SO all apologies to you.....

Now on to this question, I am mad as hell at what Israel is allowed to get away with. (And those of you who are going to post that im a racist don’t waste our time) I have friends who are of various descents. So please don’t!!! If you remember when this incident was first reported the 5 people were said to be Muslims cheering and taking pictures. Come to find out they were Mossad agents. WTF is that? On our soil cheering as 3000 Americans are crushed. A so called friend would warn us of the attack; However, Israel did know about it and didn’t tell us. Which makes them accessories to murder in my book? Anyone who doesn’t believe strings are being pulled is possibly "in ca hoots” Anyway just wanted to acknowledge that I to am pissed about it. Wish I had the power to do something besides talk about it. Also take care buddy and stay watchful!!!!!