Jerry Falwell found unconscious,:Update Falwell Passed Away

I'd like to give a big thumbs-up to our members on this thread who have responded gracefully to this news. As many of you know (and as my username would certainly insinuate) I've never been a fan of Falwell at all.

I consider his career, his ideologies, and his teachings to have been tragic. Yet instead of cheering his death, I don't feel any great comfort in knowing that his family is in mourning. I believe we should just take him as an example of what we do not want to be or become, and learn from his mistakes. Let any evil he has done be interred with his bones, and let us try to become better people by recognizing both the truths and errors he had taught, and distinguish between the two.

[edit on 16-5-2007 by Masonic Light]

the guy was a dirt bag and as someone said, a closet bigot his entire life....i suppose it would be wrong to say i am rejoicing that he is dead...might be better to say i am rejoicing that he is no longer alive...

IMO, he was the equivalent of rectum cancer or something...he spewed garbage for 70 years...i like to call what he did with his little tv programs extortion...he extorted millions of dollard with his evangelical crapola...

my mom used to have a bumper sticker that said "the moral majority isn't"

i would love to have that very sticker...

the guy was a friggin parasite on the nation...good riddance....

how can one guy get ripped here for dogging out falwell, but another guy can get a thumbs up for comparing a member to nazis and the like?
i don't get that...
it's called opinions...while some mourn his death, some don't. some are happy and some are not...we're all individuals and we all feel differently.

personally, i don't put much stock in the whole death thing...really don't mean much to me. i have had relatives die...i was not at the wake/funeral...that stuff is for th living...so, for those that are calling him mr falwell and are mourning him, what exactly are you morning?
the life of a man you didn't know?
or, are you mourning a man that said things like this?


“Homosexuality is Satan's diabolical attack upon the family that will not only have a corrupting influence upon our next generation, but it will also bring down the wrath of God upon America.”

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals”

“Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan in America”

“Textbooks are Soviet propaganda”

“The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews”

“[homosexuals are] brute beasts...part of a vile and satanic system [that] will be utterly annihilated, and there will be a celebration in heaven.”


“The First Amendment is not without limits.”


“Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions”


^^^^^^^what a wonderful man

i just don't see why people are getting all bent....

[edit on 16-5-2007 by Boondock78]



[edit on 16-5-2007 by Boondock78]

Barry Goldwater warned the party that someone like Falwell would do exactly what Falwell did. Now rather than debate issues or even be taken seriously conservatives in America waste all their time defending themselves against stereotypes Falwell made popular and tying to get logic and reasoning through the thick veil of Christian fundamentalism thats choking us. That is, unless you happen to be a popular conservative running for president. Then you display how little you know about the American people by trying to perpetuate his rhetoric. We want a Tancredo or a Paul. Not a Romney or Guiliani. Even Duncan Hunter is better than these doublespeaking freaks who dont seem to understand what 'conservative' means.

Its because of him I get called a facist, a bigot, a homophobe, a xenophobe and whatever other lovely, yet groundless, insults.

Thanks for permanently skewing the conservative message and creating an ignorant divide Jerry. At the very least I can look at all of the ignorant attacks Ive recieved because of him and people like him as a sign that liberal politics doesnt really have anything to go on except name-calling and promises to spend into bankruptcy in order to purchase votes. As wonderful as that is its still frustrating to be shouted down by angry and ignorant mobs everytime I go to the supermarket.

I would have appreciated him fixing this mess before he passed on but oh well.

...minus one for the rapture then
Get in there 1 extra space is going now

Well the religious right could try and make Jerry into some kind of martyr. Jerry will never know that his belief system broke down at the get go or put another way without a higher power or after life his beliefs are just the rantings of dislusional person.

I respect peoples right to subscribe to a differnt belief system then mine but I don't have any time for those who preach morality because they have proven to be the most corrupt.

Who knows what skeletons in Jerry closet will turn up now that he has passed away ?

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Barry Goldwater warned the party that someone like Falwell would do exactly what Falwell did. Now rather than debate issues or even be taken seriously conservatives in America waste all their time defending themselves against stereotypes Falwell made popular and tying to get logic and reasoning through the thick veil of Christian fundamentalism thats choking us. That is, unless you happen to be a popular conservative running for president. Then you display how little you know about the American people by trying to perpetuate his rhetoric. We want a Tancredo or a Paul. Not a Romney or Guiliani. Even Duncan Hunter is better than these doublespeaking freaks who dont seem to understand what 'conservative' means.

Its because of him I get called a facist, a bigot, a homophobe, a xenophobe and whatever other lovely, yet groundless, insults.

Thanks for permanently skewing the conservative message and creating an ignorant divide Jerry. At the very least I can look at all of the ignorant attacks Ive recieved because of him and people like him as a sign that liberal politics doesnt really have anything to go on except name-calling and promises to spend into bankruptcy in order to purchase votes. As wonderful as that is its still frustrating to be shouted down by angry and ignorant mobs everytime I go to the supermarket.

I would have appreciated him fixing this mess before he passed on but oh well.

If I had a way above left, You'd have it for that post. You have pretty much summed up why I feel the world just a little bit better without him. He basically spearheaded the movement that ultimately hijacked the Republican and Conservative side of American politics. I used to have more respect for Republicans than I did Democrats. Now I respect neither. It is because the religous right and Moral Majority basically took over and used the normal right to push their agendas ahead and push America towards theocracy. The Rational Republican as a result went the way of the dinosaur in the 80's and 90's, and like you said, the few decent conservatives left have been pigeon holed into the same rotting cranny that the religous nuts dwell.

Unfortunately, I don't see this mess cleared up, because Falwell's partner in crime, Robertson, still blights the earth, and he is even more extreme and more active in politics now, and unfortunately, seems to be in pretty good health.

Of course, people are right. I shouldn't be celebrating the death of Falwell. It was him and his cohorts in televangelism that helped to cement my rejection of Christianity and the Bible. They ultimately were on of the major factors that confirmed I was at total odds with Christian doctrine.

But I am an Evil Elf, and as is my nature, I shall still toast to the passing of a man who turned Conservative politics into a Crusade against America, and who helped to deeply scar America in ways that the 9/11 terrorists and Al-Qaeda could only dream of.

When Robertson kicks the bucket, maybe then can the Conservatives lick their wounds and regain their party.

When I heard of Falwell's death, I wasn't sad, I was relieved. It's just one reaction in the spectrum of possible reactions people might have, depending on their opinion of the man.

I'd like to say that if it was Osama or Ahmadinejad, or someone else that most people agree is "evil", everyone would be cheering and few would be offended and I doubt anyone would be warned for expressing their opinion and feelings of happiness. But in my opinion, Falwell was as evil as anyone, but it's not politically correct to "cheer" about the death of someone and some find it offensive.

Unless of course, most people think he's evil. Then, my guess is it would be ok. After all, we've cheered when Al Qaeda leaders were bombed or captured. We cheered when Saddam was hung... I'm confused.

Being warned for expressing a feeling of joy at an event just doesn't seem to me to fit the idea of "we don't take a stand" that ATS works so hard to promote.

I know I don't usually express my disapproval of ATS staff actions, and I'm hesitant to do so now, but I'm making an exception because I feel it's important to look at what this action means. It seems to me that if it's ever ok to express happiness at anyone's death, it should be ok to express happiness at Falwell's.

Just my meaningless 2 cents.

For some reason I always going to remember this person by one of his famous cases in the supreme court. Hustler Magazine, Inc. et al. v. Jerry Falwell

Originally posted by intrepid
Jesus Christ. What is wrong with you people, I`m appaulled at some of the responses here. Celebating DEATH. :shk: I thought our members were better than that.

Is He a member of ATS?

Seriously, though I was surprised with the emotional range of some ATS members. There is a feeling of being able to speak freely and work through their "issues" here.

Finally, I was impressed with the way opinions were swayed and people gained understanding of how they were being judgemental.

Condolences to his family.

BTW, some societies celebrate the death of a member of their tribe, especially one who has lived well. So, to focus on 'Death' as bad might be a personal or cultural bias.

I realize you meant it in the sense of it being graceless to celebrate misfortune of another human being.


[edit on 16-5-2007 by Badge01]

Of course, as technically, if any of us believed what he believed, we could celebrate his passing and ascension to heaven. Of course, no one here seems to believe the same as him. But if you believe that there is no afterlife, then it is cruel. Same goes if you believe he goes to hell (namely the one which apparently one can never be forgiven after however long they have been in hell, whether it be a million years or not, no forgiveness ever).

I don't hate him(I've never met him, so I refuse to judge him) I just hate people with the same opinions as him; they're narrow-minded and idiotic.

Anyway, I'll be a human and say "RIP".

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
When I heard of Falwell's death, I wasn't sad, I was relieved. It's just one reaction in the spectrum of possible reactions people might have, depending on their opinion of the man.

I'd like to say that if it was Osama or Ahmadinejad, or someone else that most people agree is "evil", everyone would be cheering and few would be offended and I doubt anyone would be warned for expressing their opinion and feelings of happiness. But in my opinion, Falwell was as evil as anyone, but it's not politically correct to "cheer" about the death of someone and some find it offensive.

Unless of course, most people think he's evil. Then, my guess is it would be ok. After all, we've cheered when Al Qaeda leaders were bombed or captured. We cheered when Saddam was hung... I'm confused.

Being warned for expressing a feeling of joy at an event just doesn't seem to me to fit the idea of "we don't take a stand" that ATS works so hard to promote.

I know I don't usually express my disapproval of ATS staff actions, and I'm hesitant to do so now, but I'm making an exception because I feel it's important to look at what this action means. It seems to me that if it's ever ok to express happiness at anyone's death, it should be ok to express happiness at Falwell's.

Just my meaningless 2 cents.

Not meaningless at all. I think your post was spot on.

Originally posted by Kacen

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by Kacen
I CHEERED! WHOOO! Now all we need is for this to happen to Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps!

What is this crap? Someone is having major medical problems or perhaps is even dead and you celebrate?

And you think you're any better than him?

Sheesh..

The guy is wacko insane. He supported segregation, plus he said 9/11 was caused by the pagans, the feminists, the homosexuals, among other things, when it was quite obviously done by Islamic extremists.

Plus, the guy wants to de-secularize our country and force everyone to be Christian.

Seriously this is one guy we could do without. Looks like all that "bad karma" caught up with him.

He might of been pointing out that those Islamic extremists revile and absolutely hate pagans, feminists, gays, etc. Even in moderate Islamic nations like Egypt thats a one way ticket to death. They dont kill people in Islamic nations for being Jews, but they do kill the above so that should give you an idea of how much an extremist would hate the same groups.

If, later, it turns out that Falwell was a wife beater, or a torturer..
Or someone that could murder his own people at the drop of a hat.
THEN, maybe then, I may express some happiness at his death.
Until then..Expressing joy, because someone with a different belief system dies, is supremely poor taste.
And wishing death upon even more people, of similar ilk, shows that the "tolerant" can be extremely intolerant.

There is a good chance that a lot of people owe their lives to the fact that Jerry Falwell walked this earth..Love him, or hate him.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
We cheered when Saddam was hung... I'm confused.

I didn't cheer when Saddam was hung. I spent my time on a thread with other members who were somewhat saddened at a loss of a human life, no matter how horrible he was.

Personally, I find it in poor taste to cheer at a person's death and, to me, it says something not very nice about the person who is cheering. It's got nothing to do with being PC, it's just good manners and respect for human life. It's the way I was raised - I don't take joy in other people's sorrow.

Even if the person who died had no respect for human life doesn't mean I should act that way too.



[edit on 16-5-2007 by Duzey]

I heard about this thread, and have taken a quick perusal of some of the posts.

And it looks to me like the line is a bit blurry sometimes between respecting someone and their opinions, as opposed to respecting someone's right to have and express their opinion.

I do not know Jerry Falwell personally. For those that do, and miss him now that he is dead, I offer my condolences.

My personal opinion of him is very low, based on admittedly limited information. I do not respect him or his opinions or beliefs.

I do, however, highly respect his right to hold and express his opinions. These are two very different subjects, and it seems to me that sometimes the distinction is lost.

Originally posted by Duzey
I didn't cheer when Saddam was hung.

Just to be clear, I didn't either. When I said "we", I meant some ATS members. I actually thought it was sad and wrong, but that's beside the point. Some people were thrilled and expressed it and were not chastised for doing so. When Anna Nichole Smith died, there were some horrific things said, but no one was told how they should express themselves and their opinions about her and her death.

Personally, I find it in poor taste to cheer at a person's death and, to me, it says something not very nice about the person who is cheering.

But since when is it not OK to say something in poor taste on ATS? Since when is it not OK to be a person who's sometimes "not very nice"? Since when is it mandatory that we all respect human life in the same way everyone else does?

I don't take joy in other people's sorrow.

I don't think anyone here has taken joy in anyone's sorrow. They're glad Falwell is gone. Not glad that his family and friends are suffering.

Even if the person who died had no respect for human life doesn't mean I should act that way too.

You're right. But if some of us do act that way, is it grounds for punishment?

Jerry Falwell was a horrible person in my opinion, but I support and defend his right to say what he believes 100%. And by that same token, I support and defend people's right to say what they feel about his death, even though it may be "in bad taste" or "not very nice" as long as it doesn't break the T&C. I support and defend people's right to express themselves even if I disagree with it and I'm just a little taken aback at the staff's position on this matter.

But it's not the first time I've disagreed with ATS staff and committed to following the rules anyway. I'm here as a guest, as we all are, and I will follow the rules. I'm just a little confused is all. There are many things said here that are in bad taste and not very nice, but this is the first time I've seen a warning go out because of it.

I know I've said many things that were harsh, in bad taste and not very nice and I've never gotten warned. Perhaps I will in the future, I'm not sure, but that's just my point. I'm confused. Perhaps the line is clear to all the mods and staff, but it's not clear to me. I thought we could pretty much say anything about non-members.

I'm not at all interested in arguing my point, just expressing it. I don't expect to convince anyone of anything. This is just my opinion. I accept the ruling though I don't understand it, and will do my very best to stay within the bounds of taste.

This secondary discussion of whether it's acceptable or not or right or wrong to cheer at a person's death is off topic, though, and I honestly think it's disrespectful to continue along that vein. If someone is interested, maybe another thread is called for...

My condolences go out to those who are suffering as a result of Mr. Falwell's death.

I agree with you BH and I support your views, the man was a very horrible person and he found a way to cash out on his superiority as a religious figure

I have not shame to say that the world will be better without people like him.

And this is my opinion, now lets keep on the more important things in life.

like the oldest daughter of martin luther kind just passed away also.



[edit on 16-5-2007 by marg6043]

Hi,

I’m a new member here and I appreciate the site and those that provide it as a resource at no charge to others. I have posted a few times and I’ve visited the site once in a while over the past few years.

I hate to criticize others on a forum like this, but I feel compelled to say that I am severely disappointed by the rhetoric displayed in this thread. Not only do I find it morally reprehensible to find glee in Falwell’s death, but it’s not even Fallwell. It’s a caricature of him.

I really don’t have a strong opinion about the man one way or another. His passing has engendered apathy. But when I see the amount of vitriol on this thread that mostly takes him to task for things that he apologized for or quotes that were taken out of context (or possibly fabricated, there were a number of quotes on this thread that were attributed to him that had no source quotation) I get concerned about the level of discourse.

If some of the people who were slamming him also mentioned the food kitchens that he provided, scholarships he offered and other works that offered some context it would have helped their argument. I noticed that he was lumped together with a number of ‘holy rollers’ who live high on the hog, like Benny Hin or the Bakers. In reality, Falwell led a fairly modest life, living in a reasonable home and didn’t seem to indulge in the trappings of extreme affluence.

Keep in mind that I wasn’t a fan. It’s just that seeing such one-sided arguments disappointed me when I consider the level of discourse on ATS. I would have been fine with any posting that presented an image of the complete man and took him to task for his failings.


Eric

IMO at a time like this if you don't have anything nice to say about the guy you shouldn't say anything. Remember that people have had plenty of time when Jerry was alive to point out the awful truth about what he preached. After the respectful time of mourning has passed you can then debate his legacy.