New Turmoil in Israeli Government - Thoughts?

Over the past couple of days there have been increasing calls for the resignation of Ehud Olmert; primarily due to his mishandling of the Lebanon War last summer.

Apparently, what started this increasing round of criticism was the recent release of a report (Winegood Report, maybe?) that was highly critical of the PM and the military leaders. The latest big name to desert Olmert has been Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister.

I have been reading several news sources about this situation, and they all seem to note that Olmert leaving his post would cause a lot of chaos with regards to potential successors and a potential new general election so soon after the previous one.

The next few weeks could be very critical for Israeli planning and decision-making.

Any thoughts????

It seems to me that if a country or a group had plans to attack Israel now would be a good time to do it.

Israel is finished. They've been losing territory since 1979 and the best weapons in the world only managed to effectuate a stalemate against Hezbollah last year. The crack-up of their leadership is only further proof of their imminent collapse.

A serious "reformat" of Israel wherein Zionism is abandoned and the Palestinians are given the same rights as the Jews is the only hope that the Jews may be allowed to stay. The alternative is a Second Diaspora and an utter destruction of the Jewish State.

Heres a link to some news about it


I really do think the guy should go after all the turmoil he caused in Lebanon and the peace talks.

Maybe with someone new in charge things might get better there.

Originally posted by itguysrule
It seems to me that if a country or a group had plans to attack Israel now would be a good time to do it.

I really dont think the Middle East right now is in any position to jump on Israel.

If any group or country does something that stupid right now, it just further fuels Bush's reasons to go to war with Iran. And if involved or not Iran will get blamed.

That pretty much gives Bush a reason to go to war with anyone in the Middle East. I dont know what other targets they would have, since they control pretty much every country in the region of any significance.

Olmert's Minister of Defence was a prize idiot by all accounts. Now if Mr Olmert surrounded himself with idiots and took bad advice then that was a failure of his leadership.

Either way it is clear that Olmert no longer has the confidence of the vast bulk of his people. For the good of his nation he needs to step aside and let someone else rebuild. It is not about Olmert, but I doubt he sees it that way.

The same goes for every nation where a leader has failed. The country needs a new mandate.

There are tough decision ahead for Isreal in particular how to respond to Iran's threat. Isreal can't allow that decision to be made by someone the nation no longer sees as competent.

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
Heres a link to some news about it


I really do think the guy should go after all the turmoil he caused in Lebanon and the peace talks.

Maybe with someone new in charge things might get better there.

Hi Fett
The thing is, this Winograd report isn't really concerned about the turmoil that was caused, but more about the failure they suffered and whose responsibility it was for the failure. Which in my opinion is pretty pitiful.
They really could care less about the damage done in Lebanon or the loss of civilian life as long as they aren't Israeli.

Either way Olmert refuses to step down. Just have a look at their government and one can see the corruption from the PM and the President all the way down to building inspectors.

Thanks for replying on the thread. I've always found Israeli politics to be very interesting; albeit very very confusing. And I have also noticed through my readings that their system appears to be every bit as corrupt, or maybe more, than US politics.

I have seen several names floated as potential new PMs; but nobody new. Just a lot of the same old retreads.

In the meantime; Syria is moving some more brigades and missile batteries into the Golan area. Maybe just muscle-flexing by Assad; but you never know.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Either way Olmert refuses to step down. Just have a look at their government and one can see the corruption from the PM and the President all the way down to building inspectors.

Hi, yes the corruption is quite bad, have you read the book "By_Way_of_Deception" by Victor Ostrovsky?

Even back then in the early 80s, corruption in Mossad by Victors account was very bad so i wouldnt imagine that it has gotten any better by today. He talks about wild sex partys involving all sorts of officials and how the men used secret missions as excuses to their wives to have affairs. These were then covered up by their colleges.

But at the very least with the botchup done in account to the lebanon invasion, one would think that at least for that Olmert would have to be held accountable and be forced to go. Now he wants to clean things up, but if he botched it up how will he be able to make things better

[edit on 3-5-2007 by Fett Pinkus]

Originally posted by Praafit

Originally posted by itguysrule
It seems to me that if a country or a group had plans to attack Israel now would be a good time to do it.

I really dont think the Middle East right now is in any position to jump on Israel.

If any group or country does something that stupid right now, it just further fuels Bush's reasons to go to war with Iran. And if involved or not Iran will get blamed.

That pretty much gives Bush a reason to go to war with anyone in the Middle East. I dont know what other targets they would have, since they control pretty much every country in the region of any significance.

You are right that any attack on Israel will probably lead to a major conflict. However, saying someone would be stupid to do that reflects a Western point of view. Many people in the Middle East see the world very differently than we do. A major conflict with the West may fit in perfectly with their vision of the world. I don't know. I'm just saying that if your enemy is in disarray you might see an advantage in attacking them while they are more vulnerable.

Originally posted by itguysrule

Originally posted by Praafit

Originally posted by itguysrule
It seems to me that if a country or a group had plans to attack Israel now would be a good time to do it.

I really dont think the Middle East right now is in any position to jump on Israel.

If any group or country does something that stupid right now, it just further fuels Bush's reasons to go to war with Iran. And if involved or not Iran will get blamed.

That pretty much gives Bush a reason to go to war with anyone in the Middle East. I dont know what other targets they would have, since they control pretty much every country in the region of any significance.

You are right that any attack on Israel will probably lead to a major conflict. However, saying someone would be stupid to do that reflects a Western point of view. Many people in the Middle East see the world very differently than we do. A major conflict with the West may fit in perfectly with their vision of the world. I don't know. I'm just saying that if your enemy is in disarray you might see an advantage in attacking them while they are more vulnerable.

Now if I were in charge of the military of one of Israel's enemies, here's what I'd be thinking: our enemies can be defeated, but only if we provoke them so that they attack us at the worst possible time. Israel has shown that they are weak. The only possibility they have for survival is groveling. True, America may launch a counterassault against Iran, but it's a virtual certainty that they'll lose given the geopolitical situation, so why put off a conflict any longer?

I just can't help but wonder that since Israeli politics are in such disarray right now, their surrounding enemies will take the opportunity to pounce while Israel is distracted. Plus, I have read stories where their military is in the middle of a fairly large reorganization, so that would add to the overall possible window of opportunity.

Syria has been flexing some muscles lately, and most of the Hizbollah fighters in southern Lebanon have rearmed and repaired their fortifications. In fact, they have supposedly received much more weaponry from Iran through Syria.

If they wait too long, their window might close.

Originally posted by Txhunter67
I just can't help but wonder that since Israeli politics are in such disarray right now, their surrounding enemies will take the opportunity to pounce while Israel is distracted. Plus, I have read stories where their military is in the middle of a fairly large reorganization, so that would add to the overall possible window of opportunity.

When it doesn't happen, hopefully thats when people will realize who the agressors really are. Many politicians in Israel because of this Winograd are discussing a 3rd Lebanon war. So we will see.


Pie

I've always found Israeli politics to be very interesting; albeit very very confusing. And I have also noticed through my readings that their system appears to be every bit as corrupt, or maybe more, than US politics.

You wouldn't be alone in that Tx_hunter. In my country New Zealand we have a fairly similar political system of proportional representation and I can tell you the drawbacks are that minor parties with only 5% of the vote can manipulate the larger parties with their support and push through bizarre and unpopular agendas.

Isreal seems to be afflicted the same way by the presence of small ultra extremist religious parties. Neither the mainstream conservative nor the mainstream left wing parties can have a free hand to do as they wish. It is a very confused situation.

Possibly the only thing which unites Isreal are it's enemies.

There are people in Isreal who want peace with the arabs, but they are drowned out. It does not help that there are equally arabs and Iranians who have avowed to destroy Isreal who will not allow peace either.

All the Huff & Strutting & Slamming of the current PM is par or the course,

the ongoing free-for-all that goes on is the political equivelent of the
kid's game "King-Of-The-Mountain"....
they're all trying to pull down the guy on the top of the heap
and get all the spoils for themselves and the cronies that helped them
get to the top-of-the-heap...
nothing new or remarkable in this observation of Olmert' under attack

a discerning mind will see it all as; controlled chaos

Rice is going there to meet with Abbas and Olmert. The US has issued some directives. So far only the Palestinians have agreed while Olmert is claiming it needs changes. I wonder how he will handle this on top of his own problems.



Pie

Originally posted by itguysrule

Originally posted by Profit

Originally posted by itguysrule
It seems to me that if a country or a group had plans to attack Israel now would be a good time to do it.

I really dont think the Middle East right now is in any position to jump on Israel.

If any group or country does something that stupid right now, it just further fuels Bush's reasons to go to war with Iran. And if involved or not Iran will get blamed.

That pretty much gives Bush a reason to go to war with anyone in the Middle East. I dont know what other targets they would have, since they control pretty much every country in the region of any significance.

You are right that any attack on Israel will probably lead to a major conflict. However, saying someone would be stupid to do that reflects a Western point of view. Many people in the Middle East see the world very differently than we do. A major conflict with the West may fit in perfectly with their vision of the world. I don't know. I'm just saying that if your enemy is in disarray you might see an advantage in attacking them while they are more vulnerable.

Okay, let me rephrase it, What "terrorists" want isn't the same as what the everyday Muslim wants.

Cries for war and revolution have long been attempted by a lot of radical Muslims. Egypt kicked them out of their country or threw them in jail. Saudi Arabia doesn't look like they want to get involved with anything if it doesn't mean a profit for them. Its obvious Turkey is reluctantly helping the U.S. And I dont think the freedom fighters (Civilians) from Afghanistan or Iraq are in any position to join in on the war. I think they'd be just content with having America leave their respective countries.

So not as a "Western" point of view, but from a strategic point of view it would be stupid to attack Israel now. It would be a perfect scenario for the U.S to jump in and do as they please in the Middle East. Im sure no radical Muslim wants that.

To me, it would be a better idea waiting for the U.S. to make their move. Let them attack Iran. There's been rumbling of Muslims gathering together, but for the most part, its Muslims fighting Muslims. A war in Iran could go a long ways in changing that, Muslims around the world could unite around the fear of more possible attacks on the Muslim religion. This is where the REAL JIHAD comes into play. Not the bullshyt Jihad you see Bin Laden talking about, that allows the killing of other Muslims. But the Jihad that is practised to protect their rights, their beliefs, their struggle in the way of God which allows them to participate in the fighting of injustice and oppression. That Jihad will only come when a unrighteous war is brought against the Muslim religion. Which is why you are seeing what your are seeing now in Iraq. You are seeing Muslim civilians fighting against the injustice and oppression of the American army controlled by the American government, who's goal in Iraq is NOT to save the Iraqi people, but to better their investments in the Middle East.


That however, is not enough to unite the Muslim religion, a war in Iran, just might be the thing. Especially since Iran is looking so innocent, with the British sailors and in other political stand offs. Its making it real difficult for the Americans to find a reason. But they will, and when they do it'll probably look real bad on the American people and even worse in the Worlds eyes.

So imagine if this being the scenario, you wouldn't just see one or two car bombings a day, but rather 10-20 car bombings a day. You would see foreign governments getting involved, and Wallah you have the real deal Jihad coming straight for Israel.

Remember when the first Crusade took place, Christians killed ALL Muslims, when the Muslims reclaimed Jerusalem they ESCORTED the Christians back to the Mediterranean.

I just noticed on several news sources that Secretary Rice has cancelled her upcoming trip to Israel due to the turmoil in the Israeli government. This turmoil being driven by the recent release of the Winograd Report on the second Lebanon War.

In addition, I have also been reading where Israeli Army warnings of the increased military buildup on three borders (Syria, Lebanon, and Gaza) have been falling on deaf political ears due to the recent turmoil. There are increasing fears in the military of major new attacks from these three borders this summer.

Attached is a link to the Jerusalem Post discussing the Rice cancellation.

www.jpost.com...

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Israel is finished. They've been losing territory since 1979 and the best weapons in the world only managed to effectuate a stalemate against Hezbollah last year. The crack-up of their leadership is only further proof of their imminent collapse.

A serious "reformat" of Israel wherein Zionism is abandoned and the Palestinians are given the same rights as the Jews is the only hope that the Jews may be allowed to stay. The alternative is a Second Diaspora and an utter destruction of the Jewish State.

Israel is little and they may have some troubles but don't count them out yet. The Palestinians never had claim to Israel. The maps that state this are fake anyway. Its been a Jewish State for 3,000 years. Israel is Holy why do you think so many want to get a hold of it?