(Video)Iraqi Insurgents Run Checkpoint

Anyone who knows me on here knows that I do not support the war in Iraq. But I do support our troops. And when a video arises that shows soldiers clearly acting in defense, I have to post it. Although I did cringe a little at the end.

Here is the video.

[edit on 30-4-2007 by kleverone]

I saw NOTHING and I mean N-O-T-H-I-N-G there that shows those were "insurgants." What I did see what them opening fire on a slow moving vehicle, if they were honestly running a checkpoint they would be going a WHOLE LOT faster than that. If you try and say the bullets slowed them down: wrong, it was moving slow even BEFORE the "168 meters" call was made and they opened fire. I hear at LEAST 3 guns firing on the vehicle, saw tracers from 2 different areas. Then I saw the anti-tank missile (maybe a DRAGON) fired at the vehicle, which was ABSOLUTELY uncalled for. If ANYONE claimes they were defending themselves: there was 0 incomming fire on them, I only heard fire when the un-named "marines" opened fire guessing of course they are marines.
What I also took note of was a bunch of whoops and hollers by a bunch of dimwitted kids who just greased a car of people and blew it sky high even after it was comming to a halt.

Summary: 0 self defence seen, just a bunch of young punks shooting at someone, I will stand by that till I see a full 20 minute footage showing the vehicle run a checkpoint, then keep going towards their position. What I saw was a tiny clip that could be anything from murder to an assault on someone who did run a checkpoint. I am leaning more towards the first though since they were so thoroughly enjoying the wholesale slaughter of people inside of a white, slow moving car.

That footage was sickening. Also if they were acting in defence, as a final note: those kids need their guns taken away and discharged. Why? Mantality. There is a thing called going too far, and that missile was it. I say they were trying to CTA (cover their (bleep)es)) by wiping out evidence.

Well you must understand that it ran a checkpoint in the middle of nowhere

Why do that unless you have a car full of weapons? Trust me, I see your point, and empathise, but the fact of the matter is, is we are not there and do not understand the facts other than what is presented in this short clip.

I have had many debates with others on these types of threads for the argument you present now, here take a look. Thread

but the fact of that matter is , we are not there, so lets not assume we know more than we do.

All I can do is support the people who believe they are doing good, regardless of their ignorance or lack thereof.

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.





[edit on 2/5/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Sounds like vekar had his/her mind up before he/she watched the video. First off, the car is too far away to accurately judge how fast they are going, especially when they are driving some piece of junk in a dirt field. I bet that would do a good job in slowing them down. Second, who would be driving in the middle of no where not even on a road?

Did it actually bother you when they cheered? If so, why?

[edit on 5/1/07 by pugachev]

Actually,there is a better quality version on www.liveleak.com


www.liveleak.com...




[edit on 5/1/07 by spanishcaravan]

I take it NONE of you have ever lived near a road, especially a rough one. I can tell you a car like that would make NOISE if it was a rough road, secondly, if there was no road then they could not have run a checkpoint. You do not put checkpoints in the middle of a dirt field, you put them on the side of roads. Also, want speed proof use your eyes: this is what the russians did in WW2 to check distances for their snipers.
#1: look at how large or small the object is
#2: check your brain for how large that object would then be at 100yrds.
#3: distance adjustmant to rifle and snipe them.

That car kept a CONSTANT size in the distance and speed, about 4 seconds or so AFTER the fire started they did turn the car slightly and go off in the distance but at the same speed. Now if the car was laden with weapons, and cars being non-bullet proof one would grab the nearest sniper rifle out of the back, jump out and roll then smoke the first guy who has the largets weapon. Being the one with the DRAGON launcher. Also, as I said, blowing up the vehicle wipes out a whole lot of evidence, I would like to see the contents of that vehicle. If those guys showed another movie clip with them holding a nice shiney AK-47 I would say they need executed on the spot. An AK-47 being made of wood (stock, butt, forward grip) would be a pile of ASH and a few metal bots at this point. That missile would have BLOWN UP AND CHARRED anything in that vehicle.
Also, in the middle of Iraq, or wherever that person was driving, you can drive on the road and risk being shot to death by a punk who has a happy trigger finger. OR! You can drive in the open desert and try and go around them. Remember the TV reports a while back about ambulences being shot up by marines? How about them greasing an Italian reporter? I cannot blame an Iraqi for going off the road to get around this beaurocracy.
We may not be there, but we have videos, and videos are used every day in court cases that get people sent away for life. If a movie like this can no longer be trusted as being proof, then there is no such thing as proof anymore unless your the one holding someone at gun point like the KKK did after the civil war. KKK guy holds a gun to black mans head, makes him confess, court ajourned.
Assuming is not something I do unless it is most dire, like someones injured or about to be. That or I am given sketchy info and have to do something on assumption of what is being asked which is rare. From that video though, I saw no incomming fire, just a white car moving slowly in the distance, which when shot at, tried to get away. No (SS bleep) sherlock, when shot at you try and get away or mount a counter attack.
Side note to pugachev: I had not made up my mind about this before it happened, I watched it carefully and thought about it. Do not twist things and spin lies and propaganda. I am a HE by the way, MALE. I drive in the middle of nowhere... so thats illegal? wow, we need to kill every single forest ranger in the nation!!! not to mention hunters, trappers (yes they still exist), hickers, campers, joy riders in the countryside and so on. Dang, by your estimate we need to kill most of the US's population to be safe! People drive in the middle of nowhere ALL THE TIME! My state is one HECK of an example: New Mexico. People drive off road all the time, nothing new, is that a crime? If not here, why so in Iraq? Do not give that BS responce of: "oh they have weapons! Smuggling!" Because in the USA people do that to smuggle weapons too, and drugs, and people, and slaves, etc. Again, my state is an example of this sick cycle, but there is a HUGE population that likes to drive around in the middle of nowhere to get away from the towns and villages for a while without being on an interstate and bugged by state cops.
klevertone: last thing: I saw no checkpoint, I asked for a larger video of this occurance so I could listen to earlier discussions as they settup into place to listen to their radios. Most of them have their radios turned up enough I can hear it clearly, so I wanted to hear earlier talks about a car running a checkpoint or if there was NOT one and they just murdered someone then there would be no announcement of this over the radio. Thus I asked for a 20 minute long video clip of this event. Mostly dealing with the beforehand (before they blew the car up) and maybe another video of them searching the wreckage to see what they had shot at.

Did it bother me when they cheared: heck yes. After the sicko things they have done and continue to do to people while hooting and hollering it bugs me A LOT when they do that. Just go look around ATS at the pictures people put up of Iraqis who were murdered, raped, tortured, humiliated, etc. All the while these people hoot and holler or are smiling ear to ear in the photos. If that is not justication for being bugged by someones actions, NOTHING IS!

Puga: did YOU make up your mind before you watched this? BEFORE YOU READ ALL OF MY STATEMENTS!?! You need to listen more carefully and pay more attention, I am citing the reasons of suspicion and if that is illegal then ATS is just as illegal along with EVERYONES statements on any subject at all dealing with Iraq.

The only thing I can tell from this video is some car is driving out in the middle of no where and the soldiers opened fire. What makes me think you already had your mide up is the fact you assume these people are innocent and our soldiers are cold blooded murderers. We weren't there, and we don't know what happened. IF the video was shot sooner, we would know what happened. That video shows nothing except US soldiers firing on a vehicle speeding in the middle of no where. They should have stopped at the checkpoint. They are fully aware of the consequences of running one. It is unfortunate that they have to pass through a checkpoint run by foriegn military troops, but we have no choice until we can stablize Iraq. Best conclusion I can come up with is they had something to hide from the soldiers so they thought they could outrun them. Guess they forgot about anti-tank weapons.

By the way, don't compare US states to Iraq. Its a whole different situation when a park ranger is driving through the forest as opposed to some guy in the middle of a desert avoiding a checkpoint. Especially when we consider that one of these countries has a civil war going on.


[edit on 5/1/07 by pugachev]

Pugachev: I shall compare and compare and compare. Why? Because if you treat them like they are prisoners they shall act like it. THEY DO NOT WANT YOU THERE! SO GET OUT! The Vietnamese never wanted you there, yet you invaded to support a dictator, look what happened: YOU FAILED 500%! IT WENT DOWNHILL TO THE POINT PEOPLE ARE STILL DYING TODAY FROM YOUR ACTIONS! So your going to do the same to the Iraqis eh? Oh wait! You already did... DU... Making a puppet government... yup, checked off the Vietnam Chapter 2 Part 2 already.
Stabilize? Like you said you would in Vietnam? Enough said there. Stabilize? Like you tried to do in Yugoslavia? Enough said there. So your running a perfect 100% failure rate, way to go! Just run them tanks all over the bloody desert till everyones dead or maimed!
I dont CARE if I was not there, I have footage and I am calling shots based on that footage, if you do not like it: TOUGH LUCK! Get me that 20 minute video footage of the whole event! Not just someone claiming that the video is about someone running a checkpoint in the middle of the desert. YOU pugachev already made up your mind before watching it, you took the "running a checkpoint" at point blank without asking for further proof. I AM ASKING FOR MORE PROOF! So far there is 0 proof they ran a checkpoint, so far they are only guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If they ran a checkpoint, show me the footage! That was a TINY clip of things and cannot prove YOUR point anymore than my own!

You fell over your own words pugachev. One thing you need to learn about online videos like this is to take it with a grain of salt, it could go either way, you did not and spat back, while I on the other hand asked for more proof and showed the logical conlussion for the amount of video shown.
As for the USA and Iraq again: no difference, we have drug runners, people smugglers, gun runners and so on along with moonshiners. What happens to these guns in the USA? Gangs. Murders. Rapes.
Civil war in Iraq, IRAQ HAS BEEN AT WAR SINCE THE BRITISH MADE IRAQ! Good GODS! When you slap two groups who HATE each other to begin with into ONE nation what do you expect? Peace and prosperity? Only if your a fool!
I would like to quote what woman said in the movie "Red State Road Trip"
"They have been fighting since before Jesus was born, and they will keep fighting till he comes back!"

Trying to alter over 3000 years of history now are we? All in less than 100 years... Wow, you set yourself up for one heck of a fall, the Romans learned that the hard way when they invaded. Ottomans WIPED OUT the Eastern Roman Empire remember? Crusaders tried... 100% failure... British, Nazis, Israel, RUSSIA, Ghandi (Pakistan split and is still at war with Hindu India) and now the USA and Britian again.

Puga you just fell into the "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." If they want to fight THAT BAD then let them, it is NOT worth your life nor anyone elses. It makes a statement when they think so little of your army that they continue their fighting and just throw stones at you while they get serious with each other and go for broke.
You failed the second you attacked, Sadam was the ONLY glue in that whole country, now he is DEAD! How did he keep control? He shot ANYONE who got in his way, the Sunni and Shiite learned FAST they had a common enemy and put their fighting aside for the time being. Now your going in and you have two choices: confirm to the world over that you are murderes by acting like Sadam to keep control, which you already are, or give them the chance then get out. If you wonder how your acting like Sadam: go look at the threads of what your flyboys do to the Iraqis and the torture, rape, murder, random shootings, etc. There are plenty of topics on here from about 2-3 months ago.
The largest powers in the world all failed to stabilize the middle east, and now you waltz in and expect a miracle to happen. That is true irony, because it shall end with you being in a grave 6ft under.

Again, you with your assumptions. You assume I support this war. Besides Vietnam, this is the worst disaster our nation has been at fault for. I do, however, "support the troops". They do not get to choose which conflicts they get to fight. We, the American people, are 100% repsonsible for Iraq. Most don't want to hear that, but its the truth. We are suppose to overwatch our government so they represent the American people. Obviously, that's not being done. But enough of that.

I can understand where you are coming from. We have two different takes on the situation here. You seem to act like this video is suppose to be some type of "evidence" to prove that they were insurgents running a checkpoint. I don't think that's why this video was created. It seems to be created to simply show an insurgent get blown to bits by a missile. A little gruesome, I'll admit, but please don't assume that our soldiers are murdering people for fun. They work too god damn hard out there risking their lives to be labled "murders" and "baby killers" all over again.(not quoting you on those)

Another thing, please don't take a handful of events and act like it represents the entire 2.5 million man military of the US. You need to understand something. Over a million DIFFERENT people in the US military have served in Iraq. Something ugly is bound to show up.

One final thing.

Just because there has been violence and bloodshed in Iraq for the past 3000 years doesn't mean they can't live in peace. There has been war in Europe for just as long and look at them now. The vast majority of Europeans are peaceful people and are uniting. There has to be a way to bring unity to the Middle East. There's a billion people living there, and I believe there is still something worth saving there. Maybe you don't give a damn but some of us do.

[edit on 5/2/07 by pugachev]

First off puga: I do NOT support the military, at all. Seconly, I do NOT support "the troops" or the waffen SS as I would call them or "storm troopers" as others like to call them, both good names. Anyone who wants to partake in an illegal war should be shot, or just left there to be picked off. The only person(s) I support are the ones who want OUT of there and never to return, those I shall support, the ones who are willing to go AWOL or desert to avoid an illegal war and committing of warcrimes, those I shall support. Yes and illegal war is a warcrime and to partake in it is to be part of the problem and to be guilty. There is no such thing as just following orders or just doing your job, that is the biggest boat load of crock ever concieved. The nazis tried to pull that one at Nuremburg and they all got SHOT OR HUNG!
2.5 million? prove it, I saw pentagon papers showing 950,000 about a year ago, not sure where it went or which computer it is on. Then I want you to remember that they and all governments lie about how many they have, they will claim to have 20 million, but have only 10 million. Its called trying to flood your enemy with propaganda so they do not know how many enemies to expect should they invade.
As for mantality, those and other videos I saw are more than enough to show a bunch of crazed, wild eyed 18 year olds wielding guns and missiles who love to kill. Proof? Shoot, I used to work at a high school on a Native American reservation and they had a marine sniper come in and do a promo for joining the marines. He was telling them how fun it is to kill people and how many people his unit was able to kill in one of his battles in Iraq. He did it with utter GLEE in his eyes, I wanted to jump over the counter and snap his neck. Truth. What he did was a 100% reflection of the Nazi mantality.
Next your forgetting that Europeans like to forget things, they still want to bulldoze under the concentration camps, forget what they did to each other in the dark ages and so on. That means they will commit the same crimes again and again. Europe also does NOT have as long a history of warfare as the middle east, the middle east puts everyone else to shame. If they truely wanted peace they would have tried to make advances towards it in todays world, they never did. You forget that mantality is something that drives people to do great evil or great good. Their mentality is to FIGHT TILL YOUR DEAD or untill your enemy is dead and 6ft under. Once again you are making the same mistake: they do not want you there! They want you GONE! Your PROVED without the SHADOW OF A DOUBT you were there to rape their nation not help it when you set your boots down in Iraq. They do not trust you. I cannot blame them. Trust is not something you gain back by blowing giant holes in the middle of a desert or taking out whole city blocks with artillery and missiles. You do not gain trust by putting your occupational gestapo on every street corner and asking them where their papers are. You do not gain peoples trust by blowing up their homes in the night looking for "weapons" with 10 pound blocks of C4 and then promptly beating up the inhabitants and dragging them off to one of your death camps. You are doing nothing but breeding MORE conflict and hate, just like you did in Vietnam.
As for proving something, 100% correct. This topic was about "insurgents running a checkpoint" and no viable proof was offered, just a short film real and someones take on the video. Thats it. I want EVIDENCE to show they are "insurgents running a checkpoint" not just a car getting turned into a smoldering crater.
So I guess by your last statement you think I dont give a rats (self sencored) about the Iraqis huh? I do care, thats why I want you and your ilk OUT! Your munitions such as Depleted Uranium are making the nation of Iraq unfit to live in, actually it already is now that you have used over 2000 tons of it this time around and who knows how many tons the last time around in Gulf War I. You have murdered over 650,000 people and violence is going UP not DOWN and there are MORE attacks not LESS attacks. Do the Iraqis a favor and roll your tanks out, Iraq is a train that is headed head on towards another and you can sit on board and blow Iraq up as it slams into the other or jump ship and save a few lives. Want to know WHY? THE IRAQIS ARE FLEEING IRAQ! How many refugee camps are around Iraq now? How many fled Iraq? How many did you murder when they tried to flee Iraq? Want a grand example? There was an incident in the first gulf war where you murdered an entire convoy of civilians and claimed they were military. They were not as it turned out, they were whole families trying to escape. You can do NOTHING for Iraq other than get out. Sticking around only makes this whole mess a 4 way war:
#1: Your pathetic coalition
#2: The Iraqis who are whooping up on you and trying to get your occupation OUT
#3: Sunni
#4: Shiite
Keep the four way war going, but your only going to loose, actually you already have. You lost the second you launched your brilliant idea of "shock and awe" which murdered who knows how many.
Do the Iraqis a favor and take your DU junk and get out, if you do not know what that is then go look it up and look up the side effects which are becoming ever more apparent in Iraq and now the USA.
Baby killers and murders, yup, plenty of people like that in Vietnam, then there were the ones drafted who never wanted to be there. Watch the film: "Sir no sir!" and you will get a dose of things during Vietnam and in Vietnam. There are two sides in all militaries: murderers and decent people. This war is 100% voluntary, so there is no excuses to be had, NO ONE was forced to be there. Yes they do work hard, they work hard at helping corporations rape a nation, great job kids! You already wiped out their infastructure! Now you just have to make sure they have no dignity left in them! Then you can call them sub-human! Good job!
I have 0 sympathy or mercy for your army, only for those who are willing to go AWOL, desert or jump ship the very second they are given the chance. No one else. To me the rest are my enemies, they serve my enemy, they do not question what they are doing or do not care. That or they are so blind they are already in their grave with one foot on a banana peel and there is nothing I can do about those types, nor you. They will just as readily take up a gun and help a modern version of Adolf Hitler and not question it one bit as they would to help a decent leader, they have no mental capacity for reasoning. Those are the kind that are dangerous to everyone. Yes I have seen people that blind and ignorant, they just bleet out whatever the government says and scream at you at the top of their lungs if you challange them on the governments words. Those are the kind that are even enemies to the decent ones in the military.
Take your pick:
#1: repetition of history
#2: life
That is what it boils down too.

Here is some additional video of those "Nazi-Stormtroopers."
This one is shot much closer, so you can see what is going on.


More video

Clearly, there's no point in arguing with you any further. Like I said earlier, you clearly already have your mind made up. But, here are the numbers that prove that we have a 2.5 million person military.

Approximately 1,426,713 personnel are currently on active duty in the military with an additional 1,259,000 personnel in the seven reserve components (53,000 of whom are in the Army and Air National Guard).

en.wikipedia.org...

Not only that, but let's look at the rotation of tours in Iraq.

As of January of 2007, more than 1.6 million U.S. Servicemen and women had serviced in Afghanistan and Iraq.

www.nvf.org...

Now find the number of crimes committed by US troops to get the "crime rate". I bet is far less than the national average. Certainly far less than IRAQ's national average. If anybody is the good guys there, its the coalition forces.

[edit on 5/2/07 by pugachev]

In every group of people there are good people, then there are the bad. Let me ask this question.Say for example you have two videos, one that shows some soldiers shooting up a car full of Iraqis and a video of a soldier playing games and teaching Iraqi children to sing and dance.
Which video do you think would be shown? Of course the violent one would be shown because that is what gets AND holds our attention.
Which one would you think would make the news?
It goes without saying that there are some sad and awful things happening over there and thanks to the world being nearly completely wired, we see more of it than ever before and there is no excuse for some of the things that some soldiers do.
At the same time though, there are positive things that are being done over there, not just a soldier dancing in the street with some children but very important things too. For example, trying to keep the water lines and treatment plants operating despite the constant sabotage.
And all the work on the power grids that goes on so that the Iraqis may get more than 4 hours of power per day, also a victim of sabotage. There are more examples to support the point that im trying to make but you get the picture. My point is that these things will never make the news because it isnt exciting enough. Who wants to see a clip of our soldiers helping to repair waterlines or power cables? nobody thats who, it isnt exciting enough but it happens.
Dont get me wrong though, there are some terrible things that happen there, theres no shortage of videos proving that but you cant judge the entire Military or for that matter, the entire country of the United States based on the negative actions of some members of our Military.
At this time, there are more instances of Iraqi on Iraqi murders than there are of American on Iraqi. Thats right, they kill far more of each other because of sectarian violence. People are to busy pointing fingers and placing blame so all I can say is, regardless of who's responsible, for the sake of the Iraqi citizens, especially the children, the killing needs to stop. very sad situation

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Here is some additional video of those "Nazi-Stormtroopers."
This one is shot much closer, so you can see what is going on.


More video

[edit on 2-5-2007 by Kr0n0s]

Oh and I want you to go back and look up the video of US troops torturing people, and then the one with the guy taunting the children with a bottle of water and laughing at him as he chases the humvee. Mmmhmm. Then these stormtroopers were used to sieze guns in New Orleans... mmmhmmm, fits the profile. As you were saying? Mmmhmm.

I shall and will stand by ALLLLLL of my statements. Now then, as for videos, the pictures and videos of attrocities outweighs all else. Kids tend to kiss rear to someone who is going to give them a candybar or a bottle of water when you have no food or sanitary water. So it goes like this in Iraq: Die of dehydration since the USAF blew up water treatment and put sanctions on you, OR! Kiss and lick boot to the nearest guy with a flag of the USA on his sleeve and maybe blow him and get a bottle of water. When you make people especialy children DESPERATE they are willing to do ANYTHING to get what they need, because they have yet to develop a system of ethics and morals. Goes along with a video clip I saw today in a movie called "the fourth world war" where it showed kids in Iraq stoning US forces. Then you folk show a movie of the same kids kissing up to them so they get food. Welcome to how gurilla warfare works in the eyes of a 6-9 year old.
As stated: I stand by my statements. Oh and here is a quote for you:
"One bad apple spoils the bunch."
Remember that the next time you bust some private and not go and bust his CO who let it happen or wanted it too.

I decided to add this part to the fray:
Which looks better to the folks back home, you raping a 9 year old to death, then her mom, sisters and some other woman you dragged in off the street or you dancing and singing with some kids? Would YOU film yourself commiting a crime? THEN POST IT ONLINE!?! Thus I have VERY high suspicions of SHORT films from Iraq unless it is blatant like a guy murdering a child outright on the screen. Criminals are not stupid, some are, but not all, just a few.
Lastly: Illegal war, you fight for the war, you become a criminal. Easy no? That is how this world works folks. It would be like you saying you murdered a family because you were ordered too, even though they had done NOTHING to you or ANYONE else. Other than breathing air and living. War is on a MUCH larger scale though, THOUSANDS of families are wiped out, you claim to be just doing your job and just following orders. That is NOT and is NEVER an excuse. Just like Lt. Ehren Watada said during one of his speeches.

So Iraqi insurgents and foreign fighters can catch a video of them shooting down a civilian contractor helicopter or blowing a civilian suburban all to hell before they desecrate the bodies that they pulled from the fire BUT they cant seem
to catch an American Soldier doing something that is breaking the law.
Im really trying to listen to you guys but it is hard to take someone serious when they continually go on these fanatical rants.
So according to this logic, the video in question right now must be justified right? I mean there couldnt possibly have been a check point a half a mile down the road that these guys blew through right?and these soldiers could not have already been in position to catch people running the checkpoints because you said so yourself "why would they film themselves committing a crime and then post it on the internet"? answer: they wouldnt
Ive seen Local and State Police using this tactic to catch speeders.



[edit on 3-5-2007 by Kr0n0s]

That seems to have been a good shot of soldiers doing what they were sent to do.

I don't like killing, i don't like violence. I am a 6'3", 400lb ex All State lineman and champion powerlifter. I could cause serious, serious damage to someone should i have the notion. but i never have, never will unless it were an accident. I abhor violence to the point that i don't kill insects. I am not a pacifist, but i believe in the sanctity of life.

Having said that, I will restate: i am not a pacifist. While I abhor violence, i understand that many of the people I am unfortunate enough to share this planet with do not share my sentiments. In order to protect myself from such dangerous people i have to comprimise my stance and understand that sometimes force must be met with force. I will restate that i am not violent, and generally have defended myself using passive restraint techniques learned in martial arts and PMAB training for the state mental hospital.

Now, should we be in Iraq? That isn't what I wish to discuss. But i will say that if we are there, we should execute to the best of our ability. That appears to be what happened here.

I would also point out that this car could very well have been laden with explosives or weapons/cash, so it (by virtue of it running) becomes a high value target.

I know the rules of my locality. I obey these rules. If i don't, i suffer the consequences. If i am pulled over, i know to keep my hands in plain sight or i could risk being shot by the officer.

I think that the protesting in here is done by someone who just is so anti war they will never admit anything other than the negative. I know people over there who have not raped, murdered, or stolen from Iraqi's. I really object to the ad hominem labeling of our soldiers by my fellow board members. Just like not all Jews are cheap, not all black people can run, not all women drive poorly, not all people from Asia know kung-fu...don't label our soldiers or lump them into one category anointed on the actions of a few criminals who happened to make it through the entrance into the Armed Forces.

[edit on 2-5-2007 by bigfatfurrytexan]

As said before, and AGAIN: I stand by my statements, which are NOT a "fanatical rant" by the way. Your just trying to twist it around to sound that way. I am asking for PROOF. That video as stated earlier, AND AGAIN I MIND YOU is not enough to justify ANYTHING. I am offering a counter solution to what is offered on the website, that being that these people were not insurgents but random civilians who were murdered. There was NO I repeat NO evidence on the film to prove they ran a checkpoint, just a title stating that, that is not proof, just someones assumption. With a video like this a crime is easy to commit, it is too darn short to justify their actions but not long enough to prove anyone guilty of anything. That is what is in question, SO DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SLANT OR SLANDER MY STATEMENTS!
Kronos: civilian contractor helicopter: blackwater mercenaries. I hope plenty more of them get shot down. I love how the government slants and distorts that word, they make it sound like they are innocent civilians when they are MERCENARIES PLAIN AND SIMPLE! Which should be ILLEGAL AS (self censored)!! These people LIVE for death, THRIVE off of death and LOVE death then you want them to "keep the peace" in villages, towns and cities. That is like asking jack the riper to protect women in the night.
So as stated before you go on your little tyrade about "fanatical rants" again, re-read all of my statements carefully and think it through. My statements are more than justified about this film considering what it does and does NOT show. ATS is for discussion, if people DO NOT LIKE the fact I am discussing what this film does and does not show AND THEN OFFERING OTHER IDEAS THAT WOULD INDICATE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY of the people shooting the film, thus being why they kept it so short: I suggest you NEVER post anything on ATS again. We are here to discuss things, not sit around and pat people on the back saying: "Oh good footage! Good picture! GO GET EM!" without thinking about what is going on in reality. I have VERY high suspicions of short films like this AS I STATED EARLIER! WHICH YOU DID NOT READ! Thus I am offering solutions based on that.

Now why on earth did I just spell out the whole thing to you again? Because you DID NOT READ A WORD I SAID! You made up your mind about my statements without thinking about it. So if your going to keep going on and on about how great the US military is, and how much this film proves them running a checkpoint, get off it! You can no more prove your opinion than I can in a film that short. Why? Because if you wanted to murder someone and then make some film to try and prove your innocent, you WOULD set yourself into proper positions, film the last 2-3 or 5 minutes of the thing and nothing else. Then label it something else other than murder on the highway, post it online as you stopping criminals, and hope no one asks questions. But guess what? Even if they DO ask: you only shot 5 minutes of film, nothing else, you never filmed the wrechage and "stockpiles" or anything. Just someone getting killed. That film could just as easily be that. Why? The government (if you remember the topic on ATS about it about a year ago) ordered the military to post rosy pictures of Iraq when they returned by trying to make Iraq sound like good vs. evil when soldiers returned home. This film could also be in accordance with that.
Anyway, if you folks want to keep on trying to do the "ringaround" with me I am not interested. I offered my opinions on the film, of the military as a side note and the government to a degree. Then threw in my reasons for which along with other side notes. I gave logical reasoning to a tiny film clip which cannot prove anything, other than propaganda for one of two sides. However it is poorly made at that.
Anyway, keep on trying to twist it around all you want, I will no longer respond to statements that will cause repition in what has been said. You can keep repeating your: "dont label, dont call them this or that, they are doing..." and so on all you want. I know what I saw, I know what I heard. I know what it did and did not prove, and since it was on ATS and was so short I offered up counter ideas. Dont like that? Why are you on ATS to begin with then?
Are we not supposed to be here to "deny ignorance?" Then open your mind a bit and accept other possibilities instead of following the flock, and taking things at face value.

Remember: Deny ignorance! That includes ASSUMING what is or is NOT going on, which is what I am doing by the way: offering the "now wait a minute, it could be..." instead of slapping people on the back and shaking hands... Which I do not do by the way with the military or government for any reason. Its all political jargon and serves to enslave us anyway.

Edit: added 3 sentences

[edit on 3-5-2007 by Vekar]

Hey where is "kleverone" anyway? He made this topic and only talked ONCE on the whole thing. He needs to get back here and keep working on his topic, not just let it sit and rot while people argue.

Sorry but there is no point in continuing to argue about the same video loop over and over. When people are having an argument or debate over something like this, especially a short video clip where neither one of us have have the ability to prove the point we are trying to make, eventually the same points and counterpoints are being repeated over and over and its a huge waste of time.
There is no proof in this clip to back up either one of our arguments. So unless there is a longer version of this same video out there, something that can prove or disprove either one of us, then Im done
Ive got nothing against you or your beliefs, I may not agree with them all but it is our right to disagree with one another.
good day and good luck


[edit on 3-5-2007 by Kr0n0s]