Why the fascination with the Freemasons and what is their place in the NWO?

edit: First of all guys, im really sorry for the length of this post. I just started typing and meant for this to be fairly short but I guess I got a little bit carried way..

Ive been seeing quite a few posts the past few weeks where people are constantly wanting some kind of information about the Masons.
Most of the posts seem to be the same thing more or less, which is someone asking who decides who gets in the Masons and then asking if they could get in the Masons.
Dont misunderstand me here though, I'm not knocking anyone or trying to make fun of anyone, I always try and respect other peoples opinions.
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is this. In my opinion there is nothing mythical or NWO like about the the Free Masons and I don't consider them a society that wields very much power at all, of course I could be completely wrong about that.
Ive just always had my eye on some other organizations that I do consider to wield a LOT of power and I'll tell you why.
First of all you have Bush's old group The Skull and Bones. I consider them to be VERY powerful for a lot of reasons but especially this one here.
The Bones are not a very large group comparatively speaking, I mean they only have what 15 people or so each year but their former members have taken, been hired or elected for some VERY powerful positions on down the line. That alone speaks volumes.
Then you have the Illuminati, which if i recall, was began some time ago in the Germany area over 100 or so years ago.
I dont know a lot about them at this time though, its been a little why since I did any research at all on them.
Finally we have a group who, in my opinion, are even more powerful than the bones. This group is the Bilderbergs and the reason why I consider them the most powerful is because I believe that their members actually have the ability and power to affect world policies.

The Bilderbergs
More
Wikipedia information

According to most sources, they are a group of about 100 members or more that are made up of some of the most important people in the world, politicians, powerful business leaders and some royalty to.
They get together once a year but thats really the most that anybody knows about them. The topics of their meetings are Secret but I believe the topics cover everything from politics to wars but the most important topic that I feel is discussed is the topic of The New World Order.
I believe that they are the architects behind this "VISION" for the World and that brings me to anther question.
I wonder if these societies, The Masons, Illuminati, Skull and Bones and the Bilderbergs work together on NWO's agenda or if the other groups are only asked to present ideas for consideration?
Maybe they each have different functions in the NWO plans. For example, the Skull -N- Bones responsibility is to place men into certain places of power, like George Bush and John Kerry. What are the odds that a group so small have two of its former members running for President at the same time? If that isnt suspicious, I dont know what is.
Ok so here we have the Bilderbergs calling the shots, the Bones prepping people for leadership positions and the Masons, what role could the Masons be playing in the "Grand Scheme of Things?"

These are all just ideas that I've been working on. It isn't necessary to try and prove me wrong because im not stating any of this as fact, its all conjecture on my part.
Having said that, any and all ideas or recommendations are welcome and encouraged, especially from members of any of these orginizations that I've discussed here tonight.
























[edit on 19-4-2007 by Kr0n0s]

[edit on 19-4-2007 by Kr0n0s]

As a Mason, I completely agree with you that Freemasonry is fairly powerless on the world stage when compared to uber-frats like Skull & Bones.

Our independent Grand Lodge system kinda precludes a concerted effort toward "puppeteering" the world, unlike the pyramidic power structure of, say, a major corporation or government.

Even so, I would suggest that the power of groups like Skull & Bones derives almost purely from the "sum of its parts", ie: its elite, individual members, and the power that they respectively hold, rather than its power as a single-minded organisation with a common mission and values etc.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Ok so here we have the Bilderbergs calling the shots, the Bones prepping people for leadership positions and the Masons, what role could the Masons be playing in the "Grand Scheme of Things?"

Some of us have been around for quite a while and still haven't worked that one out

I think the Freemasons were once instrumental (or at least beneficial) in spreading British imperialism throughout the world. That is, ushering a New World Order from the ashes of the Old World Order. However, as pointed by the OP, I don’t think they have much power today. As a matter of fact, I believe those who follow the Masonic conspiracies are probably falling for a red herring.

Interesting replies so far, mainly because i expected some Mason to come on here on the defense for me "attacking" his group.
Bilderbergs really interest me. You have some of the worlds most powerful people, all meeting at one place and the press is NOT allowed anywhere near it so theres not much reported on it. I dont believe i have EVER even heard a Bilderberg meeting being mentioned on the news.

Could you imagine a fanatical "martyr" infiltrating this meeting somehow and BOOM.. set off a bomb and take out the worlds most important people in one swipe.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Interesting replies so far, mainly because i expected some Mason to come on here on the defense for me "attacking" his group.

Sorry to disappoint, but I thought it was quite a well thought out and constructed posting.

Lol im not disappointed and I didnt mean to imply that Masons are jerks or
troublemakers. I was really kinda kidding. I guess what I meant is that I figured a Mason would take offense that I think that their organization isnt really very powerful, compared to the other ones i mentioned.
Anyway, thank you. Im glad you liked my post.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Interesting replies so far, mainly because i expected some Mason to come on here on the defense for me "attacking" his group.

Sorry to disappoint, but I thought it was quite a well thought out and constructed posting.

Er, no, and infact we've been trying to say this for some time.

Freemasonry works on the inner man, not the outer world. It may have had the most tremendous impact over the years, but one would never know for sure (and never be able to prove anything) about the degree of influence that freemasonry has had on any given individual.

It's influenced me quite a bit but I know others that it has barely touched.

... double post ...

[edit on 4/20/07 by Trinityman]

Interesting information, thanks for helping me understand a little bit better.
Prior to signing up on this site I knew very little about the Masons. I had read tons of information about a few of the other societies, that I mentioned earlier but most of the sites really never included the Masons in their discussions about potentially powerful secret societies.
Can you give me any information about what goes on inside of a meeting and possibly its initiation rituals?
I recall hearing a story sometime back regarding an initiation of a new recruit, Im not absolutely sure that it was a Free Masons ritual or not.
During the final session of the ritual, the recruit was sitting in a chair blindfolded while they pretended to do certain things to him that he couldnt see.
One of the leaders pulled out a pistol that was supposed to have blanks in it. To scare him into thinking he was being shot at, the leader pointed the gun at him and pulled the trigger.
Apparently he didn't realize that the gun was loaded with live rounds and they guy blew his head off. Some initiation ritual huh?

Originally posted by Trinityman
Er, no, and infact we've been trying to say this for some time.

Freemasonry works on the inner man, not the outer world. It may have had the most tremendous impact over the years, but one would never know for sure (and never be able to prove anything) about the degree of influence that freemasonry has had on any given individual.

It's influenced me quite a bit but I know others that it has barely touched.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Lol im not disappointed and I didnt mean to imply that Masons are jerks or
troublemakers. I was really kinda kidding. I guess what I meant is that I figured a Mason would take offense that I think that their organization isnt really very powerful, compared to the other ones i mentioned.
Anyway, thank you. Im glad you liked my post.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Interesting replies so far, mainly because i expected some Mason to come on here on the defense for me "attacking" his group.

Sorry to disappoint, but I thought it was quite a well thought out and constructed posting.

Hmmmm I liked it except 2 problems.

1. Bilderburg. Eh, fat cats getting together, getting drunk and messing around essentially.. the worlds greatest country club. One problem though. POWER cannot be SHARED. Group of 300 going to share power? No, constant struggle. There can only ever be ONE true leader in the grand scheme of things, if there is a group council eventually someone will betray their way to the top. Just one reason why the "NWO" is impossible.

2. People fear a college frat. How sad. They are the sons of the wealthy, they have no power them selves. Look at Bush, frat boy.. dumb ass for sure.. without daddy hes a nobody, and without people controlling him I doubt he could get outa bed in the morning. Hes controlled by people trying to surpass him and get above him - if you don't have the political clout to win the election, play through your puppet. BUT -- it cannot be within a group - because someone will get greedy and F up big time and the thing falls apart..

While people that end up in Skull n Bones tend to end in higher places among us, I have a feeling most would be as great as they end up either way and regardless of what fraternity they belong to -- because they do look for the best of the best.. but I cannot imagine, nor have I ever heard of nor seen a dogma in which the S&B follow to guide decisions.. they are on the left, on the right, corporate and political. There is no pattern.

Also, you ask the role of Masonry in the NWO conspiracy --

Masons are a mix of religions.. Pagans, Christians, Muslims, Jews, ect and so on. So Masonry cannot be dictating a religious order in the making, because it is a philosophy..

Masons are a complete mix of political views.. I know some extremely liberal and even socialist Masons.. I know some fascist conservatives and many in betweens. The heads of Masonry in the Grand Lodges have no open political view. No political agenda passed down. No political ideology pressed upon a single person.

Masons are affected differently by the craft.. my beliefs and personal findings will not be the same as any other Masons.. there is no unity in how Masonry affects us specifically, except that it changed us all for the better. That, my friend, is simply not enough to go on the take over the world..



Another thing-- Consider this.. The NWO is a hypothesis in which "someone" or "some group" of some "agenda" takes over the world.. enslaves us all under one tyranny....

Look to history friends.. Nations rise, and they fall.. nations that rise on the deaths of millions, the suffering of a population and the demise of all social identity.. fall within 100 years. Or at least change order. America is not the same America it was before WW2.. which was NOT the same America before the Civil War, which was not the same as right after the constitution was signed.. these are ages.. time periods of an empire.. they come quicker now that humanity seems to have picked up, but when historians look back on our history, they will see it in segments. Rome had its orders, different times under different rules and different societies, as did Greece.. as did Egypt.. as did England.. All true empires do. Empires that as I said rise on the suffering of her people rise in glory, and fall in shame.. typically wasted and forgotten except their demise that was brought on by a tyrant..

The NWO has no ideology to feed its people, the will of the people has to be rallied on a world wide scale to bring about a one world government.. which is impossible.. people in different regions will NEVER agree on everything to be a unified nation.. every one will feel that they are not being treated as the same as everyone else..

Take all of that on top of the entire world being held down by a suppressive regime, which will HAVE TO BE run by one man.. that much power, you expect some corporate fat cats to share? NO WAY> Goes against mans basic principle, self preservation and self progression.

Add that to the fact that in order to actually suppress the worlds peoples, or any people for that matter.. to suppress the ability to rebel, though you will never prevent free thought and expression, you need an army. To have an army, you need to have loyalty.. in order to have TRUE loyalty, you CANNOT BE A TYRANT. Simple as that. Buy service all you want, when the time comes and the conditions are right.. someone will turn, and every one will turn.. and the empire falls..

Its in the history books.. if you take time to see the patterns..

America may change, hopefully, change is good.. even if its bad.. stagnation is bad for man kind.. if America where to fall it would be good, as would it rising above its current state.. someone will always benefit.. just as someone in all situations will suffer = someone will always be at the bottom rung of society.

A new order or age in America WILL come about.. and it WILL come about by the power and direction of the rich and powerful.. because the mediocre man cannot direct society on a whole, it is impossible.. people need direction, with out direction, guidance, unity and to an extent control, people fall apart, unity dies, empires fall.

Back to the NWO, rich people meeting and playing with their new toys, telling their stories of mistresses while getting trashed and hitting on waitresses is nothing new, it has been apart of human governing since time began. I would advise not fearing it, because the wealthy will always make the biggest desicions in society and government, they themselves are actually the worthy, able to get to the top above the rest they are the "top pick" - which is why they control, and the poor obey.

Its not a bad thing.. its a Human thing.. it exist, people with power.. groups with power, political organizations and centers of wealth.. but complete dominance will NEVER occur...

Because when free thought, free expression, free will is suppressed, the Human spirit of rebellion will overcome all obsticals.

It always has.

It always will.

In the end, the will of the people prevail. History tells us so.

Hey man, thanks for the reply, you stated some very interesting information and it was just an overall good post.
What you said about the Bilderbergs really made a lot of sense to me. It indeed would be very hard for over 300 very powerful people to all agree on the same thing, you would have a HUGE clash of egos and personalities
I guess the main thing I was trying to find out is what are the Free Masons political affiliations and what is their political agenda. If I understand you correctly though, the Masons dont really work that way. The dont support any one person or party as a group, each member is basically allowed to support anyone they want to. Thats pretty cool, I figured something like this.
The leaders would have private meetings to decide which party or candidate would be more likely to support some type of politcal or business type agenda that they had an interest in.
Then, once the leaders decided as a group, they would then have some kind of meeting with some regional or state leaders across the country to make sure all were on the same page. Then they would publicly announce their decisions to the rest of the members to tell them who to vote for.

I do appreciate the time youve taken to educate me about the Masons.
Hope you have a good weekend.

Hey Rockpuk. That was an eloquent, intlligent post and I voted you Way Above on that one. Well Done.

Keepin It Simple
Dredz

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
As a matter of fact, I believe those who follow the Masonic conspiracies are probably falling for a red herring.

Very good point. Why take responsibility for your evil when you can blame the Masons I have alway been interested in the power structure of the world. It fascinates me that people can feel that there are few secrets kept from them because governments keep secrets poorly. The only problem with that analogy is we have no idea how many secrets are being kept successfully. It was through the study of all things conspiratorial that I found the Masons and came to feel like many, that they were behind it all. I figured that if I joined the Masons I would be a pawn of some uber elite cabal. But as I began tracking down specific people and specific Masons, I began to see a different picture. Though I found a few people may have joined the Masons to get ahead politically or in business, they were few and far between.

So one day I find out a coworker I have known for years is a Mason. He was a very stand-up guy who appeared to have no hand in the NWO at all
So after 6 months of grilling him on everything I had read on the internet, I finally joined. What did I find? No political directives, no back-room deals, no suspicious activity at all.
As Rockpuk so eloquently stated, lodges just are not political. As I think of all the guys in my lodge, I don't know who among them are democrats or republicans (or conspiracy theorists ). We just don't talk about it.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Interesting replies so far, mainly because i expected some Mason to come on here on the defense for me "attacking" his group.

I found your post to be insightful and polite. The points your raised were valid. I wish more people could be as coherent and logical.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Can you give me any information about what goes on inside of a meeting and possibly its initiation rituals?
I recall hearing a story sometime back regarding an initiation of a new recruit, Im not absolutely sure that it was a Free Masons ritual or not.
During the final session of the ritual, the recruit was sitting in a chair blindfolded while they pretended to do certain things to him that he couldnt see.
One of the leaders pulled out a pistol that was supposed to have blanks in it. To scare him into thinking he was being shot at, the leader pointed the gun at him and pulled the trigger.
Apparently he didn't realize that the gun was loaded with live rounds and they guy blew his head off.

I have no idea what organization uses guns or pranks of that nature, sounds like a collage frat.
As for the initiation rituals, our traditions dictate that we don't talk about the details so there is not much we can say about it. Even though the details are published fare and wide in books, websites, Discovery Channel etc. we still hold to the ancient traditions.
As for what goes on in a given meeting; the lodge is shut with the tyler outside, the meeting starts. If confuring a degree has been planned we usually start that right away. Various points of business are addressed, for example my lodge owns and manages an adjacent cometary and memorial service building. Every bill the lodge has is announced and accounted for, utilities, food costs for the monthly dinners we do etc. Various committees give reports, for example we have a committee for investigating scholarship applicants and deciding who can receive the scholarships the lodge supports. Various charity projects are planned and managed, for example some rural public schools are poorly funded and we contribute to buy student supplies for the students. Any sickness or distress among brothers or their families are reported and addressed if need be. Then when all that business is taken care of, we close the meeting as quickly as possible and run to the kitchen for sandwiches and beer

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
I recall hearing a story sometime back regarding an initiation of a new recruit, Im not absolutely sure that it was a Free Masons ritual or not.

read for yourself...

William James was accidentally shot in the head when a lodge member used a real gun instead of a blank pistol by mistake.

The alleged gunman, a freemason aged 74, has been charged with manslaughter.

news.bbc.co.uk...

However, Fitzpatrick said members told police the rite involving a gun goes back at least 70 years.

www.foxnews.com...

and here's one mason's POV regarding the situation.

[edit on 21/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]
EDIT: I should point out that Fitzpatrick was not a freemason, rather he was the detective Lt. investigating the incident.

[edit on 21/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Let it be stressed again that the tragic shooting in question was not part of a Masonic ritual. That ritual was invented by those guy for their own club. There are no guns used in Freemasonry.

BTW, Conspiracy Nut, check your U2U.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
and here's one mason's POV regarding the situation.

That is a pretty good, and in my experience accurate, analysis of the situation. Just think about guns used in masonic meetings for a minute. There's no evidence or exposure of such a thing, and how would that work in countries like the UK, where handguns are severely restricted and for the most part unavailable legally to citizens?

There were several threads on this at the time - unfortunately I haven't worked out the changes to the way searches work so I can't give you any ATS links, but have a snuffle around and see what you can find.

Dredz:

Rockpuck

Hey Rockpuk. That was an eloquent, intlligent post and I voted you Way Above on that one. Well Done.

Thanks man, very much appreciated.

KrOnOs:

What you said about the Bilderbergs really made a lot of sense to me. It indeed would be very hard for over 300 very powerful people to all agree on the same thing, you would have a HUGE clash of egos and personalities

Indeed, you see my point.. BUT, again, that is not to say that they do not meet and conspire.. everyone conspires.. some at lower levels some at higher levels. Businesses conspire on how exactly to get more customers, take some away from other businesses and so on.. the Group of 300 have only one thing in common..

They need us.

Other then that, they are actually enemies. Because the way the economy works, many of these rich individuals that meet have their companies toe to toe.. you can bet Wal-Mart founders are at these meetings.. they are multi billionaires, 3 of the richest people in the world. But, you can also bet that many other of America's top retailers are there as well, because they to bring in BILLIONS into the economy, and are of importance.. but they are not as rich as Wal-Mart founders because Wal-Mart found a way to screw the rest over.. sure, they get drunk together and party it up at the grove, and many other parties where the big shots get together, but they are not friends, they would agree on little and back at work continue fighting against the monopolies that are now ingrained into our society..

My point is.. people within the "group" have enemies within the "group" which would solidify my point in that no group could ever share the power and wealth of something so grand as the NWO.

I guess the main thing I was trying to find out is what are the Free Masons political affiliations and what is their political agenda. If I understand you correctly though, the Masons dont really work that way. The dont support any one person or party as a group, each member is basically allowed to support anyone they want to. Thats pretty cool, I figured something like this.

I am glad you see this.. so many other do not.

Only in something as grand as Masonry will you see people literally from all faiths, creeds, ethnicities and backgrounds come together and act as one. Sure, Masonry and the lodge act as all political organizations do, man is a political animal to quote my favorite philosopher, any group that consist of more then one person is a political organization, someone on top someone on the bottom.

Look at your own friendships, there is always that one guy that people are more inclined to listen to, that one guy that makes more choices, decides what to do, has the bigger voice and is the first to speak up.

This is the way Humans are, and not just Humans.. nearly every species on Earth.

So it is completely normal for there to be a sense of politics in the lodge, who supports who ect..

BUT.. when it comes down to, do you support Bush.. do you support the new Governor, do you agree with the war. That has no place in the lodge.. maybe over coffee or beer.. its what men do.. drink and talk about world events, we are not barred from our rightful privilege of that.. but like any political discussion typically not every one agrees..

As I said, I know socialist, I know fascist, hell I am a Monarchist so throw me in the mix.. there is NO political ideology implaced by the Grand Lodge, or any other member of the lodge, any outside organization or any influence. Members are free to believe as they wish, as it has absolutely nothing to do with the craft, as it is its own identity.

The leaders would have private meetings to decide which party or candidate would be more likely to support some type of politcal or business type agenda that they had an interest in.
Then, once the leaders decided as a group, they would then have some kind of meeting with some regional or state leaders across the country to make sure all were on the same page. Then they would publicly announce their decisions to the rest of the members to tell them who to vote for.

Many people believe this is how Masonry works.. but it doesn't, and NO organization of free will can exist and endure under such barbaric restrictions.

No one likes being told what to believe, and no one can be told what to think. One can be influenced, but in order to do that first, you must capture the attention of the people and give them something in exchange for the willing cooperation you desire.. the exchange most often has to be something bigger, better and more grand then what they current have to believe in..

All of this relates to any nation state.. 50 people and 300,000,000 people operate under the same mindset.. while more people may require more strain, the basic principle into how to actually capture their loyalty is the same in all situations in any group consisting of more then one person.

No one willingly follows a tyrant in any sized group, be it one to three hundred million. Unless they themselves are actually seeking political, economic monetary gain from the tyrants own actions.. piggy backing on someone more powerful is nothing new, it goes on every day in every corporation, political party and every government in the world.

It relates to Free Masonry in that the entire lodge is unified under the single philosophical ideology the craft is based upon.. for one man way up top to decide our own political feelings and how we should act out side and inside the lodge would go completely, 100% against the philosophy taught.. no one would stand for it and Free Masonry would literally be destroyed from the inside out.

Free Masonry orders us to act as good men. A good man can be a communist.. he can be a democratic man, he can be a socialist and a fascist.. differing political ideology does not effect your actions.. it does not inhibit a man from giving what extra money he has to a charity, to some form of foundation.. from assisting another brother in need.. it does not inhibit a man from doing pure goodness and helping a fellow Human in need, even without recognition nor knowing who they help.. that is what makes good men just that, good men. To set aside your own beliefs, your own ideology, your own moral values and simply help your race..

While in private conversation you may go toe to toe with someone because you believe in abortion, or gun control, or you believe in the war on terror, what ever.. Masonic philosophy tells us to put that aside when someone is in need, the thought of what religion is this person, what race, where they come from, who they are.. should be entirely irrelevant.

I believe this is so hard to believe or fathom by so many because our society is the complete opposite..

In our society we are taught to look out for your self.. to help those like your self, to stick to your own kind.. Christians with Christians, Jews with Jews, Whites with Whites, Blacks with Blacks.. to think that men willingly sacrifice in an organization to purposefully be completely anonymous on your political, religious or ethnic beliefs, is hard to imagine.

One would have to imagine that they GAIN from this bond, this organization.. society conditions us to do nothing unless we gain, not sacrifice, not do and expect no return..

That is, imo, the major reason for the mistrust, the suspicion..

Because doing good, simply to do good.. to honor tradition simply because it is tradition, and to set aside all personal beliefs simply because your all brothers........ is sadly to hard to comprehend in our egotistical, self righteous, self absorbed arrogant bigoted society we live in.

Masonry is not taking over the world..

But by God, if it could, this world would be a much better place to live in.

Rockpuck

I haven't always agreed with everything you have posted but my goodness that was good.

From the heart, as it should be. I am proud to be associated with you.

You have voted Rockpuck for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Yes he has done an excellent job explaining things on this thread, breaking things down and making it easier for people to understand what the Masons are all about.
I dont have time to read it all right now, I do most of my reading and posting at night and early in the morning, 2-3 am. Ill have more time late tonight to read everything that he and everyone else has written.


[edit on 21-4-2007 by Kr0n0s]