Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Originally posted by johnlear
Dulcimer I think it would be safe to assume that no matter how highly advanced a particular society there is always a need for offensive/defensive weapons.

That would be a flawed assumption based on our cultural and societal views. It may be just as likely that those very concepts (offensive/defensive) have no meaning to highly advanced societies. What about a society with sufficient advancement that simply showing up is overwhelming?

Its probable that entities from lights years away and thousands or hundreds of thousands of years advanced from us might need protection to distances of over 30 kilometers (19 miles) away because of their advancement in technology.

Not the least bit probable....and why would one follow the other?

But I think your questions are legitimate for people that are having trouble grasping the concept of beings more advanced than us.

Must it always come back to some failure of intellect?

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by SuicideVirus

I'm not sure if there is an exact quote anywhere. I never said there was.

Suicide Virus this is your exact quote:

Then I'm afraid you haven't been reading closely. The defenders of the photos have frequently been asked to provide good, positive proof of their claims, and have consistently either refused, referred the questioners to dubious websites or prejudiced documentation of limited value, or accused the questioners of being ignorant and not having enough faith.

You say here "....or accused the questioners of of not having enough faith".

Now I respectfully request that you own up to posting something that was not true or in lieu of that stating that what you posted was not what you meant.

Trying to put words into the mouths of Billy Meiers supporters is not going to cut it.

We all make mistakes and when we do its best to cut our losses, make the apology, and get it over with. Thanks.

Aw, now I've gone and stepped on your toes as someone who has made plenty of unverified statements of fact , and you don't like it. I admit I forgot for a minute that this thread is about the Ray Gun, and you have an entire forum where your claims are discussed. I apologize.

But without going too far afield, and in response to your request, Mr. Lear, I'm not going to get into an argument over semantics with you. The implication is every bit as clear as a direct accusation. And that implication is that at the end of evidence one must abandon reason and go with one's gut feeling about the truthfulness or falsity of the story. As I said, there is no specific sentence I can quote you, but the implication is clear. For instance, in an earlier post, Michael12 says:

The fact that there are plenty of things in the case that don't fit our preconceptions and ideas about just how an ET case is "supposed" to be, look, etc. shouldn't stop us from either questioning it or allowing positive evidence to change our own preconceptions and beliefs.

I interpret that as essentially saying that those who don't allow supposedly "positive evidence" to "change [their] own preconceptions and beliefs," are not allowing themselves to have faith in the truthfulness of the story. Ignore the dubious stuff and have faith in the unquestioned stuff and you'll accept the truth of the story.

Later, he says:

Obviously, the intent isn't to prove their existence but to let us draw our own conclusions in the course of study.

Don't you agree in the old axiom that "proof denies faith?" So in this case, the claim is that the aliens purposely limit the amount of proof available so that we are required to put our faith in them (or at least in Meier's story). The rationalization is that it's best for us and the aliens so we don't fight them when the time comes. The implication is that we need to have faith in this supposed process to understand why after so many decades there's still no decent, incontrovertible evidence to be had.

This comment has already been responded to:

As far as the problematic photos that draw the attention of skeptics, one has to state that not only is there nothing in life that is "perfect" but the clear intentions of those who only focus on a handful of photos (when Meier took over 1,200 of them) and don't openly acknowledge the presence of so much stellar evidence, simply belies their partiality and non-objectivity.

Does this not essentially say, "Concentrating on the 'problematic' (i.e., bogus) photos and not on the photos not proven to be bogus is indicative of preconceptions and a general lack of faith?"

Or how about this pretty clear (to me, anyway) plea for people to forget about the shaky evidence and just have faith in the "message," instead:

The UFO/ET part is quite flashy, so much so that unless there are some wake up calls and bumps in the road we may stay dazzled too long with it and dwell in escapist fantasies - as is the case with much of the UFO/ET phenomenon - rather than get nudged on, either to want to wash our hands of the whole thing (which may be better than fanticizing anyway) OR start to get to where the "treasure map" is really trying to lead us; the "treasure" here being the rather non-sexy idea of self-responsibility and complete taking back of the power that we (humans collectively, individually) have blithely given away to outside earthly forces in the forms of religion, politics, governments, "leaders", cults, sects, gurus, masters, etc., as well as imaginary things like "angels", etc.

I will admit that perhaps my interpretation of these statements is wrong. If I am, perhaps you can enlighten me as to what they really mean.

Until then, I submit that have also stated many times that in spite of my lack of faith, I am still completely open to any simple, strong positive evidence anyone might care to reveal. And to clarify, for me, this doesn't include poor photos of a tin-foil covered "whatever," or a perfectly round hole that it supposedly shot in a tree (All that energy and no burn marks? From a laser?), or a load of documents and testimony about artifacts that have no reliable chain of evidence.

If Meier has been a victim of some shady Cabal trying to damage his true-blue story (as opposed to those who just think he's a con man and would like to see him put out of business), he sure has done supremely lousy job protecting his and his space man friend's credibility. And the rationalizations for the continued negative reports and reviews are really quite pathetic. How much homework can the dog eat?

I almost bought a copy of the big Beamships book in 1984. It sure did look good, all big and nice and shiny with those saucers over the green fields. But since then, the story has continued to look worse and worse.

I like a good story as much as the next guy. But, hey, I'm ready. I've done the work, even reading the Gospel of Jmmanuel. So, let's go. Let's see the real stuff. I've been waiting patiently (albiet critically) for over 20 years.

[edit on 21-4-2007 by SuicideVirus]

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
I will admit that perhaps my interpretation of these statements is wrong.

WOW! I had to go through 106 lines of text to find it. BUT I FOUND IT!.

Thanks SuicideVirus.

Originally posted by MrPenny

That would be a flawed assumption based on our cultural and societal views. It may be just as likely that those very concepts (offensive/defensive) have no meaning to highly advanced societies. What about a society with sufficient advancement that simply showing up is overwhelming?

I think you are absolutely correct.

Not the least bit probable....and why would one follow the other?

It probably woudn't. I was wrong.

Must it always come back to some failure of intellect?

Yes, and *sigh*, always mine.

Contact 115:

Billy: On the other hand, I wonder if the Voyager I, sent on its journey by the U.S.A., will bring in good results.e

Semjase:

53. According to our calculations and the flight path of the probe, it has to pass very closely by Jupiter and several of its moons, which means that good results would have to be achieved, if the apparati of the exploration unit work flawlessly.

Billy: Does this mean that the time will come, when the scientists in truth will discover that the so-called red spot of Jupiter is a rotating and crater shaped hole on the wildly heaving surface of this incomplete sun, and that this funnel-hole is the center of a gigantic and many millenia-old storm? And does this also mean that now well be discovered, that not only Saturn and Uranus possess a ring, but Jupiter as well, only that this one is much thinner and smaller than the other two around Saturn and Uranus?

Semjase:

54. Sure, even that has to be noticed, because the probe will be steered so closely to the heavenly body, that it has to record these matters.

Billy: Aha, and will then perhaps also be discovered, that the ring around Jupiter, for the most part, consists of particles catapulted outward by large volcanoes of the moon, Io, which partially are captured by Jupiter while, however, the largest portion of all the outward catapulted material again falls back on Io, and practically closes all volcano openings again, but also the gigantic plateaus and mountains, which this moon, in contrast to the other moons of Jupiter, proves to have no carter landscape, but a fantastic evenness, despite the many craters?

Semjase:

55. You have listened very closely to my explanations on your journeys with me and admirably retained them in memory.

56. Are you able to remember still other things?
57. Besides, these facts will with certainty be discovered by this exploration device.

Billy: Fine, naturally, I still know a few more things, because I did not forget everything that you and Ptaah explained to me. I am able to remember rather well, that the various large Jupiter moons were of various colors, as for instance red, yellow, brown and white as also orange. I also still know, that you said to me, Jupiter actually should have become a sun, but its measurements were too small, so that this star really could have developed into a sun. Nevertheless the entire structure principally consists of liquid helium and hydrogen. Also I know still that you or Ptaah explained to me that chiefly potassium salts and sulfur combinations would constitute the surface and deep into it, and that everything has settled as a very thick crust, after the masses of water on this satellite had receded. Particularly, I think to remember, you said that especially the moon, Io, once was totally covered with water. If I remember correctly, you said to me, I do not know anymore whether you or Ptaah, that the moon Europa is exactly the stark opposite of Io, that there the masses of water not evaporated and changed, but that they are frozen to a gigantic armour of ice. In addition, you told me many other things and gave me explanations, of which I still remember a lot. Thus you also told me, that a particular moon would only measure approximately 200 km in length, which I defined as a gigantic hen’s egg. I believe it was the moon closest to Jupiter, the name of which I do not remember any more.

Continued.

Contact 115 (cont.):

Semjase:

In all things you have an admirable memory.

The moon, which you have just mentioned, is call by you, Amalthea.

The moon, Io itself, of which you said several things, moreover is the most volcano-active planetary body in the SOL-system.

That was explained to you at that time, if you are still able to remember?


Billy: Naturally, such things I do not forget so fast. You said at that time, that this moon was much more active volcanically than the Earth. Besides, I still remember exactly, you explained that the mile-size cloud formations in the storm funnel of Jupiter would move at extremely high velocity and in a counter-clockwise direction.


Semjase:

Sure, that I explained to you.


Billy: Now I am still wondering, if regarding the volcanic action on the moon Io, I remember correctly. If I am right, then you explained that he volcanic eruptions there would occur with primordial power and resemble monstrous explosions, which would thrust up their ejected material like atomic mushrooms, whereby sometimes heights would be reached up to 180 kilometer. Principally, it involves dust particles, gasses, ashes and some magma, but which would reach ejection velocities up to 2,300 kilometer per hour and beyond, as due to the lack of atmosphere of the moon, only minute resistance power is present. But you also said that the largest portion of all ejected material again falls back on the moon, as I already mentioned before. The rest, you explained, would be pushed out into space, while a part of it is drawn by Jupiter and very slowly densifies in its ring to a heavy sulphur-ion-combination. Is that correct?


Semjase:

Your memories are quite correct.


Billy: Okay, that shall be it. What also interests me and what I do not exactly remember: In Iran a civil war of short duration is supposed to break out shortly before the Shah’s ousting. Do you still know, when this shall be?


Semjase:

Sure; on February 9, 10, and 11, 1979.


Billy: The entire absurdity will cost many human lives, if I guess right. Also up to about one thousand death sentences shall thereafter Billy: The entire absurdity will cost many human lives, if I guess right. Also up to about one thousand death sentences shall thereafter
be carried out under the protectorate of the murderer Khomeini. In truth the entire matter on account of Khomeini and the Shah is not purely political, but it will refer to this, because Khomeini wants to avenge himself on the Shah, because the father of the Shah, long time ago, had Khomeini’s father murdered. Is that true?


Semjase:

Sure, that is correct.


NOTE: Of course there were burn marks around the OVAL hole in the tree...as the photos clearly show inth book.

Any thoughts as to why the hole produced by the weapon would be somewhat oval?

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
I will admit that perhaps my interpretation of these statements is wrong.

WOW! I had to go through 106 lines of text to find it. BUT I FOUND IT!.

Thanks SuicideVirus.

Gee, you're easy. No wonder you believe that Meier crap.

Zing!

Believe?

www.figu.org...

HOW DO WE DlFFER FROM A RELIGION OR A SECT?

Without exception, all religions, sects and ideologies, among others, are based on assumptions and beliefs that are diametrically opposed to the truthful spiritual teachings presented to terrestrial human beings by FIGU via 'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier, extraterrestrial human races, and by entities from higher and, indeed, the highest spiritual planes. These teachings are based on actual facts, truth, logic and wisdom. FIGU offers an opportunity for anyone to finally stride toward cognition of reality. After centuries, indeed millennia, of spiritual stagnation, a person can attain inner and outer freedom and assume the obligation of achieving personal spiritual evolution.

And:

www.theyfly.com...

I must say this if something comes at a price in this case money for Figu's pamphlets and books.

Then we must once again ask ourselves if such documents were or are of that much importance. Then simply and i mean very simply why must we be forced to pay a charge to read them ?

Anything relating to something of such great importance should hold no price tag.

So i personaly say this in short if something is real it hold's no value it is there for all to see for nothing in return.

I also finally add if something is sold for a price then the intentions are for some other persons benefit and not for the person who is buying the said items.









[edit on 21-4-2007 by h3akalee]

Who's supposed to pay for the publishing, rent, etc.? Is your internet service free, your computer, your food, car, gas, etc.? What a nonsensical belief to have in the real world.

Have you read all of the FREE info at my site and FIGU's?

I didn't thnk so.

OMG this is the proof I have been waiting for. Thank you so much, now I know that there is life out there. This is a revelation. Im so excited, i think ill quit my job. Wow i never knew they had ray guns, I cant hardly contain my excitement.

Originally posted by Michael12
Who's supposed to pay for the publishing, rent, etc.? Is your internet service free, your computer, your food, car, gas, etc.?

I know.....if I had earth-shattering and life changing information to share, the first thing I would think of is fillin' up the tank.

If you're in it for the money....its only natural that you would work really hard to support your position, and ultimately, your income.

Originally posted by Michael12
Who's supposed to pay for the publishing, rent, etc.? Is your internet service free, your computer, your food, car, gas, etc.? What a nonsensical belief to have in the real world.

Have you read all of the FREE info at my site and FIGU's?

I didn't thnk so.

The internet is a great place for free info maybe its the place to start hmm ? No you say ? well all i can say is the internet does not come in hardback. There is no limit to the internet its all you need in this day and age.

I know you have information on the internet and this serves you well for spreading your information at the moment. I mean we are having this conversation now no ?

That is unless you are trying to reach those that dont use the internet this is maybe a minority these days.

And also who would actually know about billy's claims if they did not have internet ? Very few maybe.

My internet service is not free and neither is my pc why should it be ? Are you saying i should pay for your's also by buying either your's or figu's reading material ? Are you saying i should buy your food and gas ? You make little sense.

I have no problem paying for my own things why should i pay for yours lol.

P.s
I would pay for a book by Tom Clancy the reason is i know what i am getting i would not pay for something however that states or simply claims it is the key to religion or spiritual enlightenment.

There might be somebody out there that needs something far fetched like that for comfort or emotional security however thats not me.

Maybe just in my opinion you might take advantage of such persons.

You also assume i have not read all your FREE information this is pretty small minded and also desperate i feel.



[edit on 21-4-2007 by h3akalee]

I wonder if I have both my arms cut off, and manage to take some pictures of a few super soakers and some of those cool 2 dollar helium UFO frisbees if I can get more famous than Billy boy.

I'm gonna have to give this some serious thought.

On the other hand I absolutley want to believe this guys stuff because I believe in the content he brings to the table, I just don't know if Its real or fabricated material.

The pictures of those "ray guns", I chuckle even typing that, doesn't help his cause as far as Im concerned. Im not closing the book on this one yet as I am always open minded. I wonder if the government really did put som fake pictures in his collection to make him look like a sham a while back as Billy claimed. Ill have to find a link to that statement.

What's your take on these "ray guns" John? You have to admit they don't really look the part, and Im not claiming to know what the part should look, but I would think at least they shouldn't look like something bought from the dollar store.

Confused,
Anathema

Originally posted by anathema777
What's your take on these "ray guns" John? You have to admit they don't really look the part, and Im not claiming to know what the part should look, but I would think at least they shouldn't look like something bought from the dollar store. Confused, Anathema

My 'take' on the Billy Meier raygun is that it is the real thing. I have no reason to think that Billy Meier is lying nor do I have any reason to believe that Wendelle Stevens is lying.

Of course you have to temper my comment with the fact that I believe there is a breathable atmosphere on the moon, there are cities on the moon and the US government has a base on Mars.

Now you could make the case that I will believe almost anything weird.

Well, I don't believe a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon.

I think Mr Lear we all have our own opinions about certain things. If you beleive the ray gun is real we must respect that fact due to it being your belief.

If you beleive you can skip on the moon's surface naked we must respect that also but only because it is your beleif.

If you were a Christian, Jew or an athiest its not our place to say anything and we must show respect as its your beleif.

We might not agree on some things but we must respect each other.

Just like when i say the raygun pictures are bad and i dont beleive they are real.

If someone gave me abuse for saying that i would have to call them a hypocrit.

If i ever seem to be making a farse of someone on this website let it be known i am not being a hypocrit.

I am simply being sarcastic for argument's sake and a little fun aslo.

P.s
Belief is the psychological state in which an individual is convinced of the truth of a proposition. Like the related concepts truth, knowledge, and wisdom, there is no precise definition of belief on which scholars agree, but rather numerous theories and continued debate about the nature of belief.

HAHAHAHAHA






[edit on 21-4-2007 by h3akalee]

Introduction to the Spiritual Teachings

Introduction to the Spiritual Teachings by Semjase at the 10th contact of Wednesday, March 26, 1975, 3:20 pm

1. The human bears a spirit that does not die nor sleep during the deepest sleep; it records all thoughts and motions; it informs the human whether his thoughts are correct or false-if he has learned to pay attention.
2. The spirit within the human is the bearer of the creative realm, and every human has his own (spirit).
3. It is incomprehensible that the human speaks of a heaven and of a kingdom of heaven within himself, rather than to merely say: Creation, truth, knowledge, wisdom, spirit, consciousness and existence.
4. A human’s yearning lies in the joy that remains, for the imperishable life, the permanent peace, the spiritual and consciousness-related wealth that never fades and lasts forever.
5. Heaven and Earth will perish, but truth, knowledge, wisdom and spirit will never be changing [change?] or perish.
6. The spirit and the consciousness are on the look-out for what is perfect, for harmony, for peace, cognition and realization, for knowledge, wisdom, truth and beauty, for love and for the true BEING, all of which are of absolute duration.
7. All of these lead to what forms the spiritual kingdom of wisdom; all are existing within what is creative.
8. All of these are here in existence, as a genius of all ingenuity, as a melody of all melodies, as ability of all abilities, as the highest creative principle, as wonder of all wonders.
9. The human may create wondrous worlds in a dream, just as Creation consciously creates the worlds.
10. To the human, this capability arises from his consciousness, which is obtainable in existence within himself, in the same way that all wonders are available within himself.
11. He himself is the realm of heaven, the realm of what is creative.
12. That’s why the terrestrial philosophers of old spoke about the human as a microcosm within a macrocosm because everything that is included within the universe is included within the human.
13. The inner dimensions of the human are endless.
14. The image of Creation, the spirit within him-the existence that is without dimension-it bears all dimensions within itself and, at the same time, transcends all dimensions.
15. The spirit is the wonder of all wonders, and all power emerges from it.
16. A wonder means using the spirit force in perfection.
17. The human, however, places a wonder into something for which he lacks all possibilities of a logical explanation.
18. If a human is happy, his happiness comes from within, because happiness is a self-created state; never is happiness a location.
19. Joy comes forth from the human’s inner part, created by spiritual poise.
20. Therefore, everything comes from within.
21. The things that, or humans who, seemingly form the cause of happiness, are only the external occasion to bring the happiness within the human expressing itself, if he has spiritually worked towards this.
22. But happiness is something that belongs to the inner being, and it is an unseparable characteristic of the spirit’s existence.
23. Endless happiness and endless power are included in this existence.
24. Outwardly, the human may be old, but this is only a passing matter.
25. Fifty years ago he wasn’t, and in fifty years-when his body is dead-he will not be, because only the body may become old and infirm.
26. The spirit, however, remains forever young and suffers no symptoms of old age.
27. The old age, and also youth and infancy, and also sorrows, grief or problems, is something that passes, like it is the case with all external conditions and experiences of the world.
28. What is lasting is the existence of the spirit, truth, knowledge, wisdom, reality.
29. What matters is to recognize and build them, because they only make the human free.

Continued FREE at: www.theyfly.com...

Next excuse...?

This thread needs to stay on the topic of the ray gun.


Just a note.

What are you trying to prove by making such posting's my friend ? Yes the majority of us know this information is there to read.

However why throw it in our faces ? My post in no way relates to any of this information it clearly relates to the information you sell to make money.

Yet again i am confused by your actions.

P.S
I will not make any more off-topic posts if other member's do the same i do apologise.



[edit on 21-4-2007 by h3akalee]