India Successfully Tests Missile Capable of Carrying Nuclear Warhead to Beijing

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Oh god

You don't even know me. Silly bee

You know that I like you very much.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

LOL thats a good one. Seriously though, that can't happen. What would Michael Dell, Bill Gates and all the other CEO's do with all the billions of dollars they have invested in outsourcing to that country?!!! LOL Imagine getting tech support with an American thats really named Steve instead of a dude named Rajih that says his name is Steve LOL

Oh the tragedy of it all!!

I would also like to know what Middle Eastern country are they referring to that has nuclear capabilities that they would deem a threat to them?

None really..
Its very china-centric of course. Plain to see..
But with all the recent love going around between India and China, neither would want to screw up things by declaring a strategic capability specifically meant for the other.
Bad diplomacy aye?

So its better to say 'Asia..MiddleEast etc etc..'
Makes it very generic..

Now when India goes ahead and tests a "good ol' around-the-world-in-30 mts" ICBM that can target anyone anywhere, then yea..
That would raise a few eyebrows.
Again the real reason for that would be nuclear survivability. Put all those long-ones onto a nuclear sub and send it off somewhere, so if and when you become the victim of a bad-ass pre-emptive nuclear strike(say from Pakistan and/or China) then you've got this second strike capability lurking away somewhere in the deep oceans ready to give some payback from absolutely anywhere on the planet.

So its really nothing to do with the middle east or northern europe and many may think here. Its really quite China centric.
But hey, nobody's going to believe that








[edit on 12-4-2007 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by marg6043
No, they are smarter they are getting their nukes and can now reach northern Europe.

With nukes like that any country will get the point, words are not needed.

And European nukes can reach India, so what's your point ?
You don't believe India has the right to defend herself ?

Originally posted by marg6043

And European nukes can reach India, so what's your point ?
You don't believe India has the right to defend herself ?

No what she is saying is, because some countries have nukes, any country should have them. Since India can now nuke Northern Europe, Iran should be able to have nuclear weapons and there shouldn't be a problem.

Maybe she thinks Sudan and Somalia should have them too

I'm glad some people aren't making big decisions. We have more than enough bad policy makers already

[edit on 13-4-2007 by RetinoidReceptor]

I don't know the more I see countries join the nuclear weapons club the more I think that the cold war wasn't such a bad thing.

I thought that ending it was supposed to be a step towards world peace, I was terribly wrong, now instead of worrying about the US/USSR mutually assured destruction deterrent, we now have way too many fingers on the nuclear trigger.

The chance of something catastrophic is much more stressful now IMO.

It is depressing.....

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
No what she is saying is, because some countries have nukes, any country should have them. Since India can now nuke Northern Europe, Iran should be able to have nuclear weapons and there shouldn't be a problem.

Yes perhaps that is my point but what it seems to be ignored here is how certain countries acquired their nuclear capabilities. . .

They didn't ask anybody for permission

Originally posted by marg6043
Yes perhaps that is my point but what it seems to be ignored here is how certain countries acquired their nuclear capabilities. . .

They didn't ask anybody for permission

Please stop speaking in riddles ...thank you.
What certain countries ?
Do you mean Iran, they don't have any nuclear capability. And who would you ask for permission, and why would you ask_________ for permission ?

Marg,

There is no absolute authority here..
No right, no wrong..
Whoever gets to do it first has the honor of writing the rules on it.
Simple.
India is decades ahead of Iran in Nuclear tech..
That's the difference..
nothing else..
On a separate note,

Agni Amusement:
content.msn.co.in...

Seems some guys got a front row seat to the test! Free of charge!

From what I hear, India is a mature and pretty peaceful country. I doubt they would use a nuke just because they have one. I think most countries want nukes not for offense, but for the fear of another country's attack.

Counties that are not recognized by the NPT nor they have signed the NPT.

NPT www.un.org...

Countries that has not signed the NPT and their given reason why /2nkquf

Some do not understand that not all countries in the nuclear club has been given the rights to nuclear proliferation, countries like India, Pakistan and NK are producing nuclear weapons at their own discresion.

But alas the UN and the US are only in pursue of one country that until now is no prof of having any nuclear capabilites.

But India has been left alone to pursue nuclear means along with Pakistan and NK.

From the beginning, India has said that the NPT is a discriminatory treaty because it uses an arbitrary cutoff date (1967) to decide who should and who should not be "allowed" to develop nuclear weapons. India has always argued for a true disarmament treaty that treats all countries equally. India has therefore refused to sign the NPT.

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Marg,

There is no absolute authority here..
No right, no wrong..

Yes is a wrong and that is the right that India gives itself for pursuing nuclear weapons.

Let not forget that Pakistan also falls in the same reason as why it also pursue nuclear weapons.

About maturity . . . I will have to take that one and laugh about it,

It seems that Pakistan has a very volatile government with a population that is pro tali-ban and al-qaida, in any given time the government will be taken over and guess what . . . they don't like Israel either.

Trouble Brewing for Pakistan's Musharraf

/3bp8x5


[edit on 13-4-2007 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043

Let not forget that Pakistan also falls in the same reason as why it also pursue nuclear weapons.

Not according to the source you quoted:

Pakistan, like India, has not signed the NPT. However, Pakistan has been one of the worst nuclear proliferators of nuclear weapons technology in history as evidenced by the recent revelation of the A.Q.Khan nuclear network. Pakistani centrifuges have been found in Iranian facilities and Pakistan’s version of Chinese warhead designs were turned over to the US by Libya last year. North Korea has been selling ballistic missiles to Pakistan for years – even during the times Pakistani economy was near-bankrupt – raising deep suspicions in US intelligence community that Pakistan has been paying for these missile by sharing enrichment technology with North Korea. Pakistan continues to shield A.Q.Khan and other accused nuclear proliferators from the international community. Many analysts believe that Pakistan is still dabbling in the nuclear underworld. Pakistan has no case to ask for such a deal.

Seems India has a higher moral ground vis-a-vis nuclear weapons.

It seems that Pakistan has a very volatile government with a population that is pro tali-ban and al-qaida, in any given time the government will be taken over and guess what . . . they don't like Israel either.

Trouble Brewing for Pakistan's Musharraf

/3bp8x5

True.. thats why most parties including arch-enemy India want Mushy to remain in power for now until this releigious tide settles down.
If Pakistan (and its nukes) were to fall into the hands of pyscho fanatics, then all hell would break loose!

[edit on 13-4-2007 by marg6043]

Difference between India and Iran as per your source again:

Iran signed the NPT and made a solemn commitment to not develop nuclear weapons but it may have cheated by secretly buying materials from China and Pakistan and not declaring them to the IAEA. India on the other hand has said what it did and did what it said by not signing the treaty. While Iran may use the India deal to score debating points, the fact that Iran may have cheated stands on its own.

And btw Marg.. this means that you do admit that Iran has made a few mistakes, starting from signing onto the NPT itself!

NK is too powerful too wage war on..Though the US does not approve of its nuclear status and is actively trying to disarm NK.. diplomatically.

So you see, India's not the culprit here.. At least not as much as NK,Iran or Pakistan.
India respects the power of N-weapons and thus has only developed them fro herself.. No monetary benefit.

Originally posted by Daedalus3

And btw Marg.. this means that you do admit that Iran has made a few mistakes, starting from signing onto the NPT itself!

The only reason countries like Pakistan and India are in the safe side for now is due to all the incentives that our own nation has given to them to stay out of the US way, for now.

Also you have to understand that until now Iran has voiced over and over that its nuclear intentions are for peaceful reasons.

So what is the deal here?

You have two countries that had been buy out to be good, but until when?

Pakistan nukes gets into the hands of the wrong people and will may get more than what our own government has bargain for.

Originally posted by marg6043

The only reason countries like Pakistan and India are in the safe side for now is due to all the incentives that our own nation has given to them to stay out of the US way, for now.

What are those incentives, and which nation is 'our own nation'?

Also you have to understand that until now Iran has voiced over and over that its nuclear intentions are for peaceful reasons.

Then why acquire nuclear technology(It didn't build what it has so far all on its own) in extremely devious-nefarious-underhanded manner esp when it had signed on to treaties like the NPT which SPECIFICALLY forbid clandestine nuclear tech transfer??!
Why not go the way of countries like Japan,South Africa,Brazil??!!
They all have nuclear tech and most aren't US stooges either(atleast not SA and Brazil).
Why purposely associate yourself with a nuclear underworld?
Why not accept proposals to receive enriched uranium from apparently non-hostile nations like Russia??!!They can still achieve nuclear energy thatway.
But no.. they want self-sufficiency.. they believe the international community
is knieve enough to believe that all their shady deals in the past are not an issue. Of course they're an issue!

You have two countries that had been buy out to be good, but until when?

Stil don't get this 'buy out to be good' concept..

Pakistan nukes gets into the hands of the wrong people and will may get more than what our own government has bargain for.

I think Pakistan should've been dealt with(in a similar fashion as Iran is being dealt with now) a very long time. But American double-standards prevented that. Pakistan has never been a responsible nuclear power..never..
Anyways, its biting them(the US) back now.

Get this, attacking Iran may seem to be a cool thing to do; but irrespective of the outcome, the US will lose out on a lot of another fronts..
which will eventually boil down to more American commoners losing their jobs..
So war is not good, but then again nuclear weapons in the hands of crazy ayatollahs isn't pretty either.
Tough break!

Originally posted by Daedalus3
So war is not good, but then again nuclear weapons in the hands of crazy ayatollahs isn't pretty either.
Tough break!

I agree. The US has f'ed up big time. I can't even bring myself to saying the Un screwed up because they wouldn't have done anything anyway.

I feel, that, the US shouldn't care about Iran getting nuclear weapons. We are very very far from them, and the won't be able to reach us. The thing people are most scared about is that they can sell nuclear technology to terrorists (Pakistan and NK could too).

What I am more worried about is that our "friend" and trade partner China has most of the nuclear weapons aimed at US cities! Not that I doubt we have them aimed at theirs, but it makes me wonder.

Why is the West (US and EU) bringing more and more business to countries that we will later have a problem with.

:sighs:

Nuke them now before its too late!!!!

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Why is the West (US and EU) bringing more and more business to countries that we will later have a problem with.

:sighs:

Do you Americans have to have problems with China? just out of curiosity

[edit on 14-4-2007 by darkhero]

Originally posted by marg6043
Yes perhaps that is my point but what it seems to be ignored here is how certain countries acquired their nuclear capabilities. . .

They didn't ask anybody for permission

Actually you are wrong in one very fundamental aspect. Iran cannot have nuclear weapons because it has signed the NPT, where it states that it will NOT develop nuclear weapons in exchange for other nations helping them generate nuclear power etc. India has not signed such a treaty. So they can in all legitemacy develop nuclear weapons as they have no complusion to seek any approval. Iran on the other hand cannot produce nuclear weapons and it insists that it is only trying to reprocess spent nuclear fuel but that is seen as a prelude to developing weapons grade material.

As far this test of nuclear missile goes, we have to understand that this missile is crude at best when you compare it in our terms. 1900 miles and 300 Kt payload is well not worthy of production in Western militaries and even amongst the Russians and Chinese. Since the Indians can put satellites into polar orbits and now are on the verge of delivering Geostationary payloads they could infact develop an ICBM with little difficulty. The use of such a weapon is limited to them as they have no reason to employ such a weapon as it would be politically catastrophic for them to do so.

The US tolerates the Indian nuclear program because of the simple fact that it is inherently benign to the West and moreover acts to keep the Chinese off balance. Plus another factor is that India is more ideologically closer to the West than most nations in that region and represents stability in that region. Then there is also the problem in controlling the Indian's as history has proven, they have an agenda of their own. The US would like to manuver India into making its agenda positive to our own rather than having them team up with the Russians and/or the Chinese. Pakistan comes in here to prevent such an alliance between China and India ever happening.

Originally posted by darkhero
Do you Americans have to have problems with China? just out of curiosity

[edit on 14-4-2007 by darkhero]

I don't know how many Americans have a problem with China, but the Americans who are AWARE of China and how they are growing into a threat, do have a problem with China.

Originally posted by IAF101

As far this test of nuclear missile goes, we have to understand that this missile is crude at best when you compare it in our terms. 1900 miles and 300 Kt payload is well not worthy of production in Western militaries and even amongst the Russians and Chinese.

True in terms of range and payload and the lack of a MIRV capability. One must remember that India just only succeeded in the thermonuclear sphere, and has not tested since then. So a 300KT thermnuke is ok. Remember you need to test in order to achieve higher yields at lesser payloads and India(and any other country lacking that ability) does not have that option in today's world.
But there are certain things about this test(and others before) which set it apart from run-of-the-mill IRBMs. With HAMs and a series of other post re-entry guidance systems, the missile CEP becomes extremely accurate and
can compete against ABM systems(non-MIRV counter measures). Also a totally composite RV gives the option of various re-entry angles thus reducing missile failure possibilities and increasing range/payload flexibility.

The only problem here is that these missiles are being made operational afer having undergone only a few tests(though 90% being successful). Its a real danger of having a nuclear arsenal filled with duds.

Since the Indians can put satellites into polar orbits and now are on the verge of delivering Geostationary payloads they could infact develop an ICBM with little difficulty. The use of such a weapon is limited to them as they have no reason to employ such a weapon as it would be politically catastrophic for them to do so.

Indians have already launched two successful Geo-synch missions
(and one failure) in that last 4 years.
But like you said they currently do not perceive the need for land based ICBMs with ranges beyond 5000km.
However the development of SLBMs with a range of 3000-5000km is an ongoing process and infact this test is a part of that program as well(dimensions of missile fit boomer launch tube dimensions).
This is ofcourse for a very strong second strike detterent.

The US tolerates the Indian nuclear program because of the simple fact that it is inherently benign to the West and moreover acts to keep the Chinese off balance. Plus another factor is that India is more ideologically closer to the West than most nations in that region and represents stability in that region. Then there is also the problem in controlling the Indian's as history has proven, they have an agenda of their own. The US would like to manuver India into making its agenda positive to our own rather than having them team up with the Russians and/or the Chinese. Pakistan comes in here to prevent such an alliance between China and India ever happening.

Very interesting insights.
Definitely quite aligned with the actual ground geopolitical situation IMO.