Power: Gore Mansion Uses 20X Average Household Consumption

Originally posted by grover
very well then how many square feet is his place then?

I wasn't talking about his carbon footprint at a per square foot rate. I was talking about his consumption as a 2 person household. No one made him pick a 10,000 sq ft residence ... I'm sure he could survive in a place that was a mere 4,000. He chose such a big house even though he is supposedly concerned with global warming and how much we Americans consume.

No I don't expect him to live in a "normal" house. But as a preacher of an environmental cause and urging people to cut down on their usage he would be able to install some eco-friendly systems and live in a smaller residence to offset his usage. If he truly believed in his own cause.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas

I wasn't talking about his carbon footprint at a per square foot rate. I was talking about his consumption as a 2 person household.

THIS is the reason this whole argument is flawed and absurd. A 2 person household?!? There are more than 2 people that live there. You are spinning the figures to reflect what you want them to believe.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
No one made him pick a 10,000 sq ft residence ... I'm sure he could survive in a place that was a mere 4,000. He chose such a big house even though he is supposedly concerned with global warming and how much we Americans consume.

Considering the simple fact that he is an ex vice president AND is still quite involved in things, I dont think 10000 sf is all that excessive, ESPECIALLY when you factor in all the people who use it. But we wouldn't want to do that now would we, otherwise that would show how much of a piece of crap thread this really is!

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
No I don't expect him to live in a "normal" house. But as a preacher of an environmental cause and urging people to cut down on their usage he would be able to install some eco-friendly systems and live in a smaller residence to offset his usage. If he truly believed in his own cause.

Well, there you go. If you had bothered to even read the article or even the posts in this thread, you would already know that the house is in the process of being renivated to install solar panels and other energy saving equipment. I bet 100 bucks that the renivation is contributing to the energy useage.

Gore purchases his energy from renewable resources, i.e. wind, solar, geothermal, etc. It doesn't matter how much he uses as he pays extra for it. We have a program here in Portland that does the same thing. There are wind farms here that contribute power to the grid. People pay more to "purchase" the power that these farms generate, thereby increasing the funding for more windfarms and such. If people would pull their heads out and actually educate themselves, perhaps this thread would have had more constructive discussion.

Originally posted by LogansRun

Gore purchases his energy from renewable resources, i.e. wind, solar, geothermal, etc. It doesn't matter how much he uses as he pays extra for it. We have a program here in Portland that does the same thing. There are wind farms here that contribute power to the grid. People pay more to "purchase" the power that these farms generate, thereby increasing the funding for more windfarms and such. If people would pull their heads out and actually educate themselves, perhaps this thread would have had more constructive discussion.

Sure would be interesting to see some proof that this is what Gore is actually doing - and not just the words of Gore's mouthpiece attempting to do spin control. The Associated Press didn't mention anything about renewable energy usage after they reviewed Gore's actual bills. Seems like they naturally would have if it was listed on the bills.

Also, you are basing your whole argument on your own assumptions about Gore's staff and their usage of his mansion for business purposes. That's pretty weak. Unless, of course, you have a link for that too.

Originally posted by centurion1211
So, you also have no problems with priests that break the 10 commandments, doctors that break medical ethics rules, and police who break the law?

Apples and oranges. You are comparing the actions of individuals, with the actions of an entire group of people. I will ask you the question again that you keep avoiding: Do you think Gore uses ALL that power himself??

Originally posted by centurion1211
The issue here is the same for all of the above. People that set themselves above us and demand that we follow them must also adhere to a higher standard to deserve our attention and trust.

He HAS set himself to a higher standard.
The way you are spinning facts wont allow you to see that though, sad thing trying to debate with someone with such a narrow view. You mentioned that you dont "agree" with our arguments on this, however the truth is a bitch. Your thread is focusing on about 25% of the truth of this matter. THAT is why it is BS.

Originally posted by centurion1211
I live my life the best way I can. Hopefully, we all live our lives the best way we can. Now, if Gore or anyone else comes along and tells me that I have to change my life, then I expect them to be willing to make the same sacrifices they are demanding of me.

Gore didn't tell you to change. He was simply telling you what is going to happen if you DONT change. He was also telling us to take responsibility for our actions.

Originally posted by centurion1211
This thread is about Gore, who is demanding our sacrifice without making any of his own. That's the hypocrisy we've been talking about.

He didn't demand anything. He HAS made sacrifices, but you cant see that because you are hell bent on comparing him to an average person. That is like comparing the amount of secret service protection I get compared to Bush. Apples and Oranges.

You are just hateful toward Gore because you need something to be hateful towards. Gore is a liberal, and I KNOW how much you hate them - ALL of your posts reflect this. Keep spin, spin, spinning away, and I will keep knocking your points down.

All of this based just on what you personally believe about Gore. One can almost imagine the glow of love and admiration in your eyes when you watch him on TV, talk or write about him. That would all be admirable, if it were only based on something more than your affection for Gore. What do you receive for practically defending Gore to the death, anyway?

You make the man sound infallible - which he certainly is not.

Come on, can't you even admit one teensy, weensy little thing that Gore has ever done wrong in your opinion. Think carefully before responding here, as this is a test of your credibility.

[edit on 2/28/2007 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by LogansRun
Well, there you go. If you had bothered to even read the article or even the posts in this thread, you would already know that the house is in the process of being renivated to install solar panels and other energy saving equipment. I bet 100 bucks that the renivation is contributing to the energy useage.

Gore purchases his energy from renewable resources, i.e. wind, solar, geothermal, etc. It doesn't matter how much he uses as he pays extra for it. We have a program here in Portland that does the same thing. There are wind farms here that contribute power to the grid. People pay more to "purchase" the power that these farms generate, thereby increasing the funding for more windfarms and such. If people would pull their heads out and actually educate themselves, perhaps this thread would have had more constructive discussion.

First off according to the Assessor's Officer for Nashville County the Gore's purchased their primary residence in June of 2002. Seems like they would've had time to convert their house by this point. It could be true it just seems like the timing is a little handy.

Gore residence info via Assesor's Web site

Yes in theory he is purchasing "green energy" but none of that energy is actually going to his house ... he's just encouraging more o the "green energy" being added to the grid and less from traditional sources. Whatever the nearest source of power for Nashville is the power he is actually receiving at his residence.

The point is that in his movie preached reducing as much as possible and certainly he has room for improvement in this category. I could care less if this was Bill Gates or any other person with $$'s and a big house with a bunch of toys; but I would expect him to run his life by the same rules he would like the rest of us to follow.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
So when is Schwarzenegger going to convert his hummer to run on hydrogen?

Sri Oracle's hot water comes from a copper/granite tile, rooftop, home-built passive thermosiphon device.

Sri Oracle's food is most often cooked on a paint can hobo stove, with wood scraps left over from carpentry projects.

Sri Oracle runs B20 biodiesel in his rigs.

Who cares what Schwarzenegger is doing... or what Gore is doing.

What are you doing?

I am,

Sri Oracle.

Originally posted by centurion1211
All of this based just on what you personally believe about Gore. One can almost imagine the glow of love and admiration in your eyes when you watch him on TV, talk or write about him. That would all be admirable, if it were only based on something more than your affection for Gore. What do you receive for practically defending Gore to the death, anyway?

You make the man sound infallible - which he certainly is not.

Come on, can't you even admit one teensy, weensy little thing that Gore has ever done wrong in your opinion. Think carefully before responding here, as this is a test of your credibility.

[edit on 2/28/2007 by centurion1211]

I admire the man yes, I believe he is a true Patriot and a Stateseman - something this country is seriously lacking these days. This thread isn't about talking about what Gore does wrong. I am 100% sure that he has made many mistakes and will continue to do so - he is of course only human. That being said, this thread isn't an analysis of what mistakes he has made. This thread is fraudulently claiming that he used 20x the energy of the average household. Let me point out why this is flawed:

1) Gore isn't an average american. He was a vice pres. He has an enteourage, staff members, dozens of people who come and use his estate - this isn't speculation, this is common sense. I would expect this out of any person of his stature, regardless of their political affilliation.

2) When you break down the numbers per square foot, take into account regional weather & utility costs AND factor in what others use in the area, factor in the number of people that utilized that estate during the time period quoted, he would actually be in line with the average for that area.
The problem with averages, is that it takes everything into account. Appartments, studios, small houses, all the way up. You cannot come up with factual numbers when you compare it on that scale, only skewed numbers which are being used to spin this thing WAY out of control.

Free Press

From source article
Gore purchased 108 blocks of “green power” for each of the past three months, according to a summary of the bills.

That’s a total of $432 a month Gore paid extra for solar or other renewable energy sources.

The green power Gore purchased is equivalent to recycling 2.48 million aluminum cans or 286,092 pounds of newspaper, according to comparison figures on NES’s Web site.

The Green Power Switch program isn’t all that Gore and his wife, Tipper, are doing, said Kalee Krider, a spokeswoman for Gore.

They use compact fluorescent lightbulbs and are in the midst of a renovation project that includes having solar panels installed on their home to reduce fossil fuel consumption, she said.

Their car? A Lexis hybrid SUV.

“They, of course, also do the carbon emissions offset,” she said.

That means figuring out how much carbon is emitted from home power use, and vehicle and plane travel, then paying for projects that will offset that with use of renewable energy, such as solar power.

Gore helped found Generation Investment Management, through which he and others pay for offsets. The firm invests the money in solar, wind and other projects that reduce energy consumption around the globe, she said.

A great response to this whole fiasco:

The Anonymous Liberal

From source article
This is a textbook example of the mindless swarming behavior that is so typical among right-wing partisan flacks. First, everyone on the right--from top to bottom--simply assumed that the content of this press release, which was put out by an organization none of them had ever heard of before, was factually accurate. Actually, that probably gives them too much credit. It's not that they assumed it was accurate, it's that they didn't care. The press release was chock-full of truthiness, and that was good enough.

On the topic of Gores energy use and why your whole thread is flawed:

From source article
As it turns out, the region in which Gore lives--the East South Central--has the highest per household energy usage of any climate region in the country, a good 50% higher than the national average quoted in the press release (I assume this is due to the combination of cold winters and hot, muggy summers). So that's misleading in and of itself.

From source article
The Department of Energy lists the average nationwide energy consumption per household as 10,656 kwh and the average consumption per square foot as 13.7 kwh. But for the East South Central region (Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, and Mississippi), the average is 15,447 kwh per household and 19.83 kwh per square foot. As you state in your post, Gore’s consumption is 19.43 kwh per square foot, which is less than the average.

You can click on

National Energy Consumption Survey

here is the actual pdf - I realise these figures are from 2001, however at the bottom of the page on the above link, it states the info was updated in 2004. I imagine these numbers take time to compile and the "average" use has grown in recent years as well.

PDF to Energy Consumption Survey

Informed Voters

From source article
I put a picture of Al Gore’s home at the top of this post,in order to show that not only is it much larger than the “average” home, but it is also being used for several offices, and employing many people. So, to compare what the energy bill of Al Gore’s home/office is, to an “average” home in America….Well, you might as well be comparing the apple to the tree.

From source article
This afternoon, a group calling itself “The Tennessee Center For Policy Research” sent out a press release denouncing Vice President Gore for the size of his household electrical bills.

Let’s start right there. How did they get the utility bills? They also didn’t have the courtesy to ask Vice President Gore about them (despite their hollow claim of being non-partisan.) And why would a “think tank” possibly care about what Al Gore spends on gas?

Actually, let’s start with a more basic question. Who are these people? Well , a quick check of Alexa reveals their web site gets no traffic. Are they legitimate? Well, again, they claim to be non-partisan but only link to far-right and conservative groups so regardless of what their status is with the IRS, this is a conservative, strongly-leaning Republican organization.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
First off according to the Assessor's Officer for Nashville County the Gore's purchased their primary residence in June of 2002. Seems like they would've had time to convert their house by this point. It could be true it just seems like the timing is a little handy.

Gore residence info via Assesor's Web site

Your point? Your link doesn't work either, it just shows me an expired page. So he has been busy, what is the big deal.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
Yes in theory he is purchasing "green energy" but none of that energy is actually going to his house ... he's just encouraging more o the "green energy" being added to the grid and less from traditional sources. Whatever the nearest source of power for Nashville is the power he is actually receiving at his residence.

No "theory" about it. You dont understand the grid very much do you? I suggest you educate yourself on the power grid and how it works. Power is sold accross state lines all the time. Do some research before you make such an ill informed statement.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
The point is that in his movie preached reducing as much as possible and certainly he has room for improvement in this category. I could care less if this was Bill Gates or any other person with $$'s and a big house with a bunch of toys; but I would expect him to run his life by the same rules he would like the rest of us to follow.

Why dont you go back and read ALL the posts in this thread and check out some of the supporting links. I am tired of repeating myself.

I can't believe you folks are still arguing over this crap.

Give it up. Let it go.

Originally posted by ProfTom
I can't believe you folks are still arguing over this crap.

Give it up. Let it go.

Is this websites motto not "Deny Ignorance"? When I see a thread that is intentionally misleading people, I have a problem with that. I get a lot of info from this site, and on an important topic such as GW, I feel as though people need to have their facts straight.

Originally posted by LogansRun

I admire the man yes, I believe he is a true Patriot and a Stateseman - something this country is seriously lacking these days. This thread isn't about talking about what Gore does wrong. I am 100% sure that he has made many mistakes and will continue to do so - he is of course only human. That being said, this thread isn't an analysis of what mistakes he has made.

You want to talk about Gore like that? Try this:

You know in a sporting event that ends with only a 1 point difference, there are 2 ways the losing team can react. They can act like democrats and scream "we was robbed by the refs!" and never let it go for years or even decades. Or they can take a more positive view and say "if we had played our best game, it wouldn't have even come down to a ref's decision. We've got to do better next time".

This, of course, is simply a metaphor for Gore in the 2000 election. The man perhaps could/should have won, but he was too stupid to win and also ran a campaign that was too stupid to win outright, leaving it in the hands of the Supreme Court (that's the ref's for LogansRun). Gore snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, and looked even more the fool for his pitiful attempts in the end. Remember the line from the movie Patton - America loves winners and will not tolerate a loser.

Now, how anyone can call this pathetic loser a patriot and statesman, plus stand there in awe of him while he lumbers around the country preaching about global warming while continuing to enjoy the good life is just flat out incomprehensible. Is the current crop of demo candidates so bad that people have to look longingly back at Gore? God help us all.

Last, if some feel it is their job to go around debunking incorrect statements based on false information, where were they the last 6 years? Oh, wait. I know. Bashing Bush and anyone on the right they could find.

Gore is a loser and will carry the loser title to his grave. This current business enterprise of his playing fear-monger for global warming is just a further example of his being a loser. You can't personally redeem him. You can't personally save him. Time to let those fat fingers of his slip through that fierce grip of yours and just let him go.

*** sound of huge THUD ***


[edit on 2/28/2007 by centurion1211]

Now centurian don't make me go back on my compliment of you on the holocaust/resurrection thread.

Gore was quite graceful when he finally bowed out. I will agree that the election was his to lose and he perhaps tried to hard but when the numbers were actually counted more people voted for gore, trouble is the electoral college (which should be done away with) and a meddling supreme court. So bush minor got in and the rest is shall we say, hysterics.

Originally posted by centurion1211

You want to talk about Gore like that? Try this:

You know in a sporting event that ends with only a 1 point difference, there are 2 ways the losing team can react. They can act like democrats and scream "we was robbed by the refs!" and never let it go for years or even decades. Or they can take a more positive view and say "if we had played our best game, it wouldn't have even come down to a ref's decision. We've got to do better next time".

Forgive me if I hold the election for the POTUS in a much higher regard than a basketball game, what ever was I thinking? I would expect the true winner of that "game" to win regardless of what any "ref" has to say about it.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Now, how anyone can call this pathetic loser a patriot and statesman, plus stand there in awe of him while he lumbers around the country preaching about global warming while continuing to enjoy the good life is just flat out incomprehensible. Is the current crop of demo candidates so bad that people have to look longingly back at Gore? God help us all.

First off, I dont hold Gore in as high regard as you seem. I think that every man is flawed in one way or another but we arent defined by our flaws, we are defined by what we do despite them. I dont look longingly back at Gore either, I think there are excellent candidates for the democratic party currently.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Last, if some feel it is their job to go around debunking incorrect statements based on false information, where were they the last 6 years? Oh, wait. I know. Bashing Bush and anyone on the right they could find.

I dont remember bashing bush in this thread. I dont remember bashing bush ever really, just point out the truth about him.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Gore is a loser and will carry the loser title to his grave. This current business enterprise of his playing fear-monger for global warming is just a further example of his being a loser. You can't personally redeem him. You can't personally save him. Time to let those fat fingers of his slip through that fierce grip of yours and just let him go.

And here is where you slip from reality. You have your opinion, more power to ya. Fact is, global warming is real. People who say and believe otherwise are dwindling, you are a dying breed. The rest of us who are ready to do something about it, will. Gore is only human but he is a good man, flawed yes, but a good man. You can spit hate however you like, it really doesn't change the facts.

Also funny, you didn't adress one of the points I posted, ya just kept rambling on.......

Originally posted by centurion1211
*** sound of huge THUD ***

Actually, I thought it sounded kid of like a ...tap..., I could be wrong though..

[EX]
The think tank said that Gore used nearly 221,000 kilowatt hours last year and that his average monthly electric bill was $1,359. Johnson said his group got its figures from Nashville Electric Service.

But electric company spokeswoman Laurie Parker said the utility never got a request from the policy center and never provided them with any information.
[/EX]


I guess the "THINK" tank thought up some numbers and just wrote them in.



Source

considering it came from a right wing think tank and media source, a smear is definately possible.

Gore's documentary film "An Inconvenient Truth," which chronicled his campaign against global warming, won an Academy Award on Sunday.

The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research put out a news release saying Gore was not doing enough to reduce his own consumption of electricity. The group disputes whether global warming is a serious problem.

"We wanted to see if he was living by his own recommendations and walking the walk," said Drew Johnson, president of the think tank, which pushes for conservative economic issues.

The Gores used about 191,000 kilowatt hours in 2006, according to bills reviewed by The Associated Press spanning the period from Feb. 3, 2006, to Jan. 5. That is far more than the typical Nashville household, which uses about 15,600 kilowatt-hours per year.

His Nashville home is more than four times larger than the average new American home built last year — about 2,400 square feet, according to the National Association of Home Builders.

The think tank said that Gore used nearly 221,000 kilowatt hours last year and that his average monthly electric bill was $1,359. Johnson said his group got its figures from Nashville Electric Service.

But electric company spokeswoman Laurie Parker said the utility never got a request from the policy center and never provided them with any information.

Parker said Gore has been purchasing the "green power" for $432 a month since November. The Gore home is also under renovation to add solar panels, Kreider said.

Johnson said Gore's home has gas lamps lining the driveway, a heated pool and an electric gate, all of which would be easy to do without.

Kreider confirmed that Gore's home has a heated pool and an electric gate, but noted that the gate is important for security and that the driveway has only one gas lamp.

Right Wing smear? If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then........... !

Well now children do you honestly expect someone who has an electric gate (and certainly a complex security system and all that entials, a 10,000 ft square house and a heated pool to pay what the average person pays for electricity? Come on now.

[edit on 1-3-2007 by grover]

Its killing them in Washington that Al Gore is enjoying success.

The only thing left for Gore to do is live by candlelight from now on. That would make them happy. Honestly, i was embarrased when i heard talk of this on tv. Its like little spiteful children :shk: I can just hear Rove now: " WE WILL DESTROY HIM" Mwahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

Sick and evil.

Look I voted for Gore, I think this world would be better off now if he was President, but all of that being said, yes it was a conservative website who exposed this and went after Gore, I am aware of that, but Gore should have not given them the ammo to use.

He should have already put into place the energy saving measures that he tells the world too. I don't care if he lived in a 500 sq. ft. home or a 10,000 sq. ft. mansion, he should have already made his homes up to the effeciency levels, he claims we all should.

This really is not about democrat or republican, the enviroment is an issue we all should be concerned about and Gore has done more to make us aware of the issue than most and he should be credited with that, but he should have realized it was just as important for him to clean up his own backyard so to speak as the rest of us.

When the air gets to where it is making us sick to breathe, already more respiratory health problems in polluted cities, we are freezing because we have used up all of the earth's resources and the governments of the world have not invested in renewable, less polluting ways of making energy it is not going to matter who is a republican or a democrat.