UK Muslims: 'Ban' Un-Islamic Schools

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by malganis

Schools must not schedule sex and relationship lessons or swimming during Ramadam.

What if my kid is a keen swimmer? They're going to have to miss out on swimming lessons because someone who's not even from this country says so? BS.

That "excerpt" IS NOT in the document! Ramadan is even misspelled!!!

ok well whoever posted the excerpt must have changed the original text before posting it, it's not my fault, I didn't expect them do that.

The point was still there though, that they want the school to change their ways. If the muslim kids are so worried about their religion then why can't they just miss out on swimming lessons? Why do they have to make everyone miss out on them?


P.S. oh and try not to use that stupid emoticon towards me too much -->
It's overused, patronising and tbh it just reminds me of some American teen high school chick-flick and it doesn't help the discussion.

[edit on 24/2/2007 by malganis]

Originally posted by shots
I do think that is a blatant lie or perhaps you are just trying to make people think that is the case when it is not.

I don't lie. You used Saudi Arabia as a "Muslim" country, because it based it laws on Islamic laws, so would you say the same thing about Britain and US for basing it on Christian laws? Are citizens from these countries forced to follow Christian laws?

Saudi Arabia comes to mind as one prime example . You can not even bring a christian bible into the country it is against the law at least that was a claim made by British Airways

There are laws forbidding teaching religion out in the public. The same law applied to the air flights, when they wanted to place Bibles on its flights not only for passengers going to S.A, but those coming from. Why would a transportation service place its business in religion, might I ask?

ALL women entering the country must change into Muslim attire before getting off a plane[...]

Hijab has been in use much longer than Islam. It pertains to decency laws, so if the government has set a law claiming the level of decency in public wear, then it must be followed by all. Same reason why you can't go nude in public beaches here, but in Spain, women don't have to cover their top.

and no one is allowed to openly practice any other religion then the Muslim faith in public.

Exactly which parts are you talking about, because my visit to there would say otherwise. Everyone is allowed to practice their faith in public, the only exception is that they can't teach their faith in public. Objects such as crosses and Christmas trees are considered against those laws meant to keep religion being taught in the public, so this may be what you mean.

Now allow me to deny your Ignorance.

Ignorance comes from not knowing. Experiencing how S.A's policies effect other faiths first hand, is hardly ignorance for me. Maybe you should have a visit there rather than read about it. It would change your mind greatly about your perception, and you can even speak to other Christians about their treatment there as well.

Imagine that the law requires all their citizens to be Muslims.

Can you show me where S.A made such a law? If not, then it holds no relevance to this discussion.

Now what was that you were saying about no country being a Muslim country???

It's still not a Muslim country, because not everyone there is a Muslim. The laws may be based on Islam and pre-Islamic era cultural beliefs, but some are only to be followed by Muslims. People of other faiths are exempt from following laws that are meant for Muslims (ex. Fasting during Ramadan, prayer 5 times a day, etc.).

Now if you do want to look at one state that is a full religious state, look at Vatican city. It's the only sovereign city state in the world where other religions are forbidden, as well as having an entire population of only one faith. Thanks to them, others faiths can't be practiced or preached near the area, and Italy won't even recognize Islam as an official religion, unlike Judaism and Christianity/Catholicism.

As for your earlier comment on the title of the thread. [...]

Would it have been so hard for yourself to rid confusion by stating the article's title was misleading? I added the "Church: we will make gay rights martyrs" thread, and corrected any confusion for anyone who thought the title implied the Church wanted to make gay right advocates as martyrs. A little responsibility for my own thread, to diminish ignorance wasn't that difficult.

Originally posted by malganis
[...]after a while schools are going to end up focused on muslim activities and the Christian and Atheist kids are going to feel like the outsiders.

And it's perfectly acceptable for schools to force Christmas, Easter, Valentines day on children, why?

If you let lots of little things like this through the end result will be one large change where the original Brits will complain and wish that there weren't so many muslim interferences in their lives.

Little things never defeat big things. If you think Muslims keeping their children from swimming during Ramadan will effect all of Britain in the long run, then I wouldn't blame you for being scared.

I didn't say they were a race, I was talking about culture. Muslim activities are far different from anything that British Christians/catholic or Atheists do.

And so are Hindu, Jewish, and Buddhist faiths. What's your point? Should these faiths also have to do what pleases the British Christian's faith?

If muslim people want to stick to their religion that's ok but it shouldn't interfere with our way of life or change a British institution.

Many try to practice their faith, but with laws trying to control how Muslims dress, pray, and so on, it's not coming easy for them to be Muslim in an intolerant society.

The school system isn't trying to take anything out because the schools weren't muslim in the first place.

Public schools are not of any faith, but they do assist those of certain faiths. Just as in the US, schools there will drown all the rooms with Christmas decorations, and yet very few, if any, will recognize Hanukkah, Ramadan, or Vijayadashami.

What if my kid is a keen swimmer? They're going to have to miss out on swimming lessons because someone who's not even from this country says so? BS.

Did you read the article? Once again, the rules made are only for Muslims. The Muslim parents will not force any other non-Muslim children from following their rules, so how is it that your kid would miss out on swimming lessons?

Originally posted by DJMessiah
You used Saudi Arabia as a "Muslim" country, because it based it laws on Islamic laws,

No I used Saudi Arbia as an example because you stated there were no Muslim countries.

Here refresh your memory these were your words not mine

[ b]No country in the world is "Muslim," only the people are.

Originally posted by DJMessiah


Can you show me where S.A made such a law? If not, then it holds no relevance to this discussion.

Sorry missed this part but have to tell you go back and reread my post I gave you the source for the law.

As for visiting there, I already have back in the 60s and thanks but no thanks never again.

Here just for you I did a search and found where Arabic news quotes the law just in case you did or do not like my original source.

www.arabicnews.com...

if that does not suit you do a google searcxh and you will find over 100 sites that quote the law


Oh wait here is Aljazeeras just for extra measure.

english.aljazeera.net...

[edit on 2/24/2007 by shots]

As long as children of other religons are given special treatment and consideration, and catered to, then its fair.

Otherwise, it is prejudice.

DJ, It wouldnt be so bad if the "radical" muslims didnt have such a piss poor track record of trying to convert the whole god damned world to their relgion and beliefs or die! They want a one world religion. And that religion is Islam. They dont care about other beliefs or religions. They take it upon themselves as competition that should be exterminated. And they will stop at nothing to achieve that. If that means by force, so-be-it.

I see the hypocrisy that you speak of with western nations and their holidays. However you dont see westerners going to the Middle East trying to provoke their religious values upon muslims now do you? (that would be certain death) So what right do they have to do it to us? They use our democratic systems against us to force their agendas.

Heres a thought, why dont they go back where they came from?! Surely their religious beliefs are shared and better embraced back where they came from?



[edit on 022828p://3802pm by semperfoo]

DJ messiah is very wrong.

Saudi Arabia IS a Muslim country. Being ruled by Islamic loaw and Islamic faith, and banning the public display of all other faiths, makes it VERY muslim.

I know because I was there. They have two sets of police, Civil and religous, the Mutawah. The Muts run around beating anyone who breaks religous observances. They have the full backing of the state.

It is very illegal in Saudi Arabia to wear any other symbol of faith, such as a cross or star of david or a pentacle. It is also illegal to distribute any non-Islamic religous material.

The country also views non-Muslims as lesser beings. Christians, Hindus, and Buddists from the far east who come to work in Saudi Arabia have little legal protection.

A Muslim country does not mean everyone in the country is Muslim. A muslim country means that Islam is the absolute authority and law, and is the ruling force. Instead of a constitution or ruling body.

Well that's the point I wanted to make Semperfoo, but you get flamed for saying things like that. Ah well;

Originally posted by DJMessiah

If muslim people want to stick to their religion that's ok but it shouldn't interfere with our way of life or change a British institution.

Many try to practice their faith, but with laws trying to control how Muslims dress, pray, and so on, it's not coming easy for them to be Muslim in an intolerant society.

A lot of them have a different homeland where their religions would be embraced. If they don't like our society and laws then why don't they go somewhere else instead of trying to change ours?

Originally posted by DJMessiah

Originally posted by malganis
...after a while schools are going to end up focused on muslim activities and the Christian and Atheist kids are going to feel like the outsiders.

And it's perfectly acceptable for schools to force Christmas, Easter, Valentines day on children, why?

Well those are traditional holidays in this country, that's why they are celebrated here. As I stated before, we don't go to their countries and try to change their schools to accommodate different religions. They wouldn't take it very lightly so why should we?

If you let lots of little things like this through the end result will be one large change where the original Brits will complain and wish that there weren't so many muslim interferences in their lives.

Little things never defeat big things. If you think Muslims keeping their children from swimming during Ramadan will effect all of Britain in the long run, then I wouldn't blame you for being scared.

That's why I said 'lots of little things'. It's not just the thing about swimming, what I mean is that if we keep on letting muslims change our systems in small ways to accommodate them, they will keep asking for more and more. And tbh I think most people are just scared to say 'no' because they will be flamed for it.

I didn't say they were a race, I was talking about culture. Muslim activities are far different from anything that British Christians/catholic or Atheists do.

And so are Hindu, Jewish, and Buddhist faiths. What's your point? Should these faiths also have to do what pleases the British Christian's faith?

They aren't the faiths we are talking about. Why? Because they're not the ones that are trying to change our systems and laws, they practice their religions in a way that doesn't interfere with everyone else's life.

Stand up for your RIGHTS [/B] now our you have nobody to blame but yourselves in the future..

True Islam only understands one thing force. Its how they convert, and try to spread their ways. Its the only thing that can stop them.

Great points.

They want islam to replace ALL world religions. They want Islam law and nothing else (as seen by muslims forcing islam on western societies).

I see this as the single most problem to our freedoms to date. Now this is not to say that their are not muslims who are open to other religious beliefs. Its just that the loudest voice usually is the one that goes noticed. Americans do not hate muslims, Im guessing same goes for other western nations. But once you try and force your religious values on us, (religious persecution) because ours dont suit your needs, and you take it upon yourself to change it because like has been said, its not your religion, then we will have a problem on our hands.

The moral of the story is, (stop forcing islam on us!)dont try and change another nations shared beliefs because you find it to be offensive. Go back to your home country then.

[edit on 032828p://1602pm by semperfoo]

Originally posted by shots
I am not having a Cow as you put it and I do believe they have nicknames for some posters it rhymes will roll. Might I suggest you follow t/c or you may find yourself on the outside looking in Moderators are not to fond of them.

Wow... seems I hit a nerve. You really shouldn't take yourself so seriously shots. Tis unhealthy.

Just come on out and say you are an Islamophobe. Get it off your chest. I have seen your posts long enough to know you are desperately trying to push an agenda, so why don't you just be honest? Come on, it will be liberating.

Originally posted by semperfoo
Kinda like if we wanted to, we could eradicate the muslim world 1000X over?

That was a rather juvenile comment now wasn't it?

By the way, funny how you bring up something that is 'atleast' 500 years old. I believe both sides had a hand in that one.

Yes, positively hilarious. My sides are splitting. Seriously.

So the fact that they happened in the past makes them irrelevant? And what makes you believe that the Zionists aren't working on what I said right now?

That is why I used the word "radical" as NOT to generalize.. What does it matter though? I didnt know ppl held my opinion in such high regards..Stop being paranoid.

So you would rather I or others didn't pay any attention to what you said?

Originally posted by Terran Blue
That was a rather juvenile comment now wasn't it?

Perhaps it was the juvenile mind from a certain individual who misinterpreted the post from the "alleged" juvenile?

Yes, positively hilarious. My sides are splitting. Seriously.

Your easily amused I can see....

So the fact that they happened in the past makes them irrelevant?

If you live in the past your bound to repeat it..

And what makes you believe that the Zionists aren't working on what I said right now?

Alright I am by no means a fan of isreal. They recieve billions of dollars annually in aid from the US only to stab us in the back by selling state secrets from the US to the likes of china, and they always seem to get us into a mess because they are totally powerless.. But both sides are acting premature. Israel is a tiny tiny landmass. Why cant everybody over their just live at peace with one another? Why do I feel compelled to say "It takes two sides to tango"?...

Also, I think a big part of it (the Mid East problem with Israel) is because Israel is a nation that doesnt share the same beliefs of Islam. Thus reassuring my view that Islam is an unpeaceful religion that cant handle different views and opinions from others who dont share their same creed.. I really cant blame Israel for retaliating.

So you would rather I or others didn't pay any attention to what you said?

The point being I couldnt care anymore or less...






[edit on 032828p://5302pm by semperfoo]

Originally posted by semperfoo
Perhaps it was the juvenile mind from a certain individual who misinterpreted the post from the "alleged" juvenile?

Er... no not really. Perhaps if you don't want to be mistaken for someone compensating for something by saying "Yeah....well... we can nuke you...!" in a display of religiously based penis-measuring, then perhaps don't make it seem that way?

Your easily amused I can see....

You cannot appreciate sarcasm I see. I can though, and as such, regarding your comment, enjoy this:

lol

If you live in the past your bound to repeat it.

Me-oooooowwwwwww lol

Alright I am by no means a fan of isreal. They recieve billions of dollars annually in aid from the US only to stab us in the back by selling state secrets from the US to the likes of china, and they always seem to get us into a mess because they are totally powerless.. But both sides are acting premature. Israel is a tiny tiny landmass. Why cant everybody over their just live at peace with one another? Why do I feel compelled to say "It takes two sides to tango"?...

See, here I have to agree. Extremists on all sides are creating a situation that is costing thousands of lives.

My point though Semper, and this is more aimed at shots than yourself, is that we should not just focus on one side. Religious extremists on all sides are a threat to us, and by us I mean humans as a species, melodramatic as that may sound. But also, we should take the bloody time to distinguish between extremists and the 'normals'. For shots to imply all muslims are psychos is just a downright lie.

The point being I couldnt care anymore or less...

LOL... very good, I like that... kudos.


[edit on 24-2-2007 by Terran Blue]

Originally posted by Terran Blue
For shots to imply all muslims are psychos is just a downright lie.

I know what you are trying to do TB and I am not biting. I do not play with Trolls nor do I argue with them.

Originally posted by shots
I know what you are trying to do TB and I am not biting. I do not play with Trolls nor do I argue with them.

Come now shots, just because you have been sussed, don't need to go calling people names.

Or is anyone who gets in your face for whipping up hatred a troll now?

Oh, and by the way, you have already bitten.

Originally posted by Terran Blue

Originally posted by semperfoo
Perhaps it was the juvenile mind from a certain individual who misinterpreted the post from the "alleged" juvenile?

Er... no not really. Perhaps if you don't want to be mistaken for someone compensating for something by saying "Yeah....well... we can nuke you...!" in a display of religiously based penis-measuring, then perhaps don't make it seem that way?

haha.. Atleast you have a sense of humor

I didnt say that to start a pissing contest, the reason why I said that was to show you that we are not in some crusade against islam, if we were we would have already destroyed it. ex. Us having the means necessary to do so.

You cannot appreciate sarcasm I see. I can though, and as such, regarding your comment, enjoy this:

lol

Well its pretty hard to read sarcasm on a board like this..

See, here I have to agree. Extremists on all sides are creating a situation that is costing thousands of lives.
My point though Semper, and this is more aimed at shots than yourself, is that we should not just focus on one side. Religious extremists on all sides are a threat to us, and by us I mean humans as a species, melodramatic as that may sound. But also, we should take the bloody time to distinguish between extremists and the 'normals'. For shots to imply all muslims are psychos is just a downright lie.

first off good points man
I agree terran. All sides need to grow up and work for the better for both sides. But muslims (not all) need to be able to take sarcasm (danish cartoons) and to embrace the world in a much different light. Americans dont hate muslims. Generally we are pretty cool with any forms of race and different nationalities, as long as they can pull their own weight and be productive, good, law abiding citizens, and that who can embrace many different cultures.



[edit on 042828p://5902pm by semperfoo]

[edit on 052828p://0002pm by semperfoo]

Originally posted by malganis
ok well whoever posted the excerpt must have changed the original text before posting it, it's not my fault, I didn't expect them do that.

Yes it is your "fault". Where did you get your text? From this post? Because right after that, in this post, I blew that post out of the water. It's an OPINION PIECE. That has very little to do with the reality of the situation. It is not in the document that the Muslims wrote at all. I quoted the Muslim piece for you.

The point was still there though, that they want the school to change their ways. If the muslim kids are so worried about their religion then why can't they just miss out on swimming lessons? Why do they have to make everyone miss out on them?

What's wrong with ASKING schools with mostly Muslim students to accomodate another religion besides Christianity. So what if they WANT something? There's nothing against the law for wanting something, is there?

P.S. oh and try not to use that stupid emoticon towards me too much -->

Try not to deserve it so much and I won't.

If you had read 1/100th of the actual document that I've linked 5 times now, you'd see that NOTHING LIKE the text you quoted was in there. If you'd paid attention to the other posts in this thread rather than ONLY trying to prove your point, I wouldn't use it. If you did your own research instead of counting on someone who shares your agenda to post the truth, I would have no need to at you.

I DO use that sparingly. You deserved it. If you see it a lot, maybe you should wonder why.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There's nothing against the law for wanting something, is there?

Well if it is done in the US; yes there is our constitution says the government cannot endorse any religion. Now I do not know about the UK but in the US yes what they are asking for is against the law well that is of course if you consider the constitution the law of the land and I do believe that is the basis for all our laws and rights.

what I am saying here is they are asking for special privileges i.e., give us special private use of government owned pool etc., I want to make that clear thus if they would give it to Muslims lets say or any religion that would be against our a violation of our constitution.


[edit on 2/24/2007 by shots]

[edit on 2/24/2007 by shots]