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Jesus and Mary

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posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:03 PM
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If Jesus and Mary were alive today, what would they look like, and what would they do?

Remember being in a traffic jam on the M25 in London a few years back and saying to my friend "I wonder what Jesus would make of this? What would he do?"

Would they be gentle souls, just trying to persuade people that there is a better way?

As Joni Mitchell said..."We have to get ourselves back to the garden"






posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:08 PM
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As to what they would look like, I have no idea. All of the images we have of Jesus and Mary came out of europe durring the dark and middle ages, and the rennasance(SP?), so I'm sure they're biased to depict an anglo-saxon looking individual.

How would they act in a traffic jam? I can tell you, road rage would not be an issue for Jesus, that's for sure. As for Mary, very little is written about her. She wasn't perfect, but nothing says she had or didn't have a temper.

And yes, Jesus would maintain the same attitude now as he did then. He is Alpha and Omega, the begining and end. He is unchanging, because at the begining he knew what it ment to be holy, and secular things wouldn't convince him he's wrong.

If Jesus was here in physical form, there would be many signs and wonders happening around him. That would be the biggest difference, because there are already many signs and wonders done in the world in His name, which was another change that happened in the Gospels.

Good question, though!



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:14 PM
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well. I think they would look a bit Palestinian, cos that's what they were.

And I think they'd be horrified by the traffic jams, and act to reverse such madness. Maybe be eco-heros?

Kind, gentle environmentalists..totally against war..the ultimate couple! Maybe express their opinions through modern day rock music? Just a clue.

Bring it on!



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:19 PM
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bear in mind Junglejake

wonders and miracles ARE happening! Music is a mirale in itself.

you just got to know where to look





posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by mystra
well. I think they would look a bit Palestinian, cos that's what they were.

And I think they'd be horrified by the traffic jams, and act to reverse such madness. Maybe be eco-heros?

Kind, gentle environmentalists..totally against war..the ultimate couple! Maybe express their opinions through modern day rock music? Just a clue.

Bring it on!





I'd just like to point out, Jesus didn't say he came to earth to bring peace. Matthew 10:34-36:


Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn

"A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter - in- law against her mother - in - law -- a man's enemies will be the members of his own household"


The quoted part comes from a prophacy by Micah, 7:6.

And of course, Luke 12:49-53


I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! [This, I believe, refers to not being luke warm] But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed am I until it is completed! Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided againste each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother - in - law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:33 PM
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heh


sounds like a man wrote that!


why didnt they listen to Mary? Listen to her gospel?

I know women can be trouble, but Mary was different. Taught peace, love, empathy and understanding.

Jesus' soul mate.

Why he loved her most...



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:34 PM
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the truth of the matter is, jesus and mary would NOT be the typical white english portrayal that we have come to know. a couple of modest middle-eastern people is closer to fact here.



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:38 PM
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i agree

thats why there is "so much trouble in the world"

you have to listen to the two of them, cos theyre here amongst you, now.



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by mystra
heh


sounds like a man wrote that!


why didnt they listen to Mary? Listen to her gospel?

I know women can be trouble, but Mary was different. Taught peace, love, empathy and understanding.

Jesus' soul mate.

Why he loved her most...



...hmmm.... John 13:23:



One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him


And Jesus's soul mate? Isn't the Father Jesus's only soul mate, or if not, aren't we all?

Just F.Y.I., I don't buy into that Jesus married Mary stuff. Jesus was pure, and good, , and holy, and needed no other then the Father. He was the Father made flesh, and no where does it mention the Father has a bride. Why would Jesus take a bride? And why would this totally be neglected in the gospel?



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by mystra
i agree

thats why there is "so much trouble in the world"

you have to listen to the two of them, cos theyre here amongst you, now.


Why would you believe Mary stands with Jesus? What scriptual evidence is there to support this? Mary saves? Well, if Mary does it all, what was the point of Jesus?



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:46 PM
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the scriptual evidence of Mary's input into the story of Jesus has been suppressed. Over centuries.

The point of it was, they were a couple...lovers...they were the ultimate model couple, but the church chose to suppress this. Mary supported Jesus in his work, and he supported her, cos they were both enlightened, charismatic beings.

Ok?



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by mystra
the scriptual evidence of Mary's input into the story of Jesus has been suppressed. Over centuries.

The point of it was, they were a couple...lovers...they were the ultimate model couple, but the church chose to suppress this. Mary supported Jesus in his work, and he supported her, cos they were both enlightened, charismatic beings.

Ok?


This may upset you, and I'm sorry, that's not what I'm aiming for, but no, not ok. You said the church surpressed it. Yet obviously you believe in an all powerful God. Do you not think an all powerful God would have been able to influence events so as to prevent the church from perverting or changing that which He wanted known?

And why would you be willing to simply dismiss an entire gospel because it was written by a man?



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 09:14 PM
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it wasnt written by a man

thats my whole point



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by mystra
If Jesus and Mary were alive today, what would they look like, and what would they do?

Remember being in a traffic jam on the M25 in London a few years back and saying to my friend "I wonder what Jesus would make of this? What would he do?"

Would they be gentle souls, just trying to persuade people that there is a better way?

As Joni Mitchell said..."We have to get ourselves back to the garden"



nobody has knows how Jesus looks like...

and i will not try and guess...

also if as your example stated that if Jesus got stuck is a traffic...

Jesus would have pacents(spelling)...

he was queit when he was on earth...

and he did NOT complain...



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by mystra
it wasnt written by a man

thats my whole point


I agree, because it was inspired by the Holy Spirit. But why respond with



heh


sounds like a man wrote that!

?


Oh, and women can be trouble, but no more than men can be trouble.



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 10:21 PM
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Junglejake...quote///////As to what they would look like, I have no idea. All of the images we have of Jesus and Mary came out of europe durring the dark and middle ages, and the rennasance(SP?), so I'm sure they're biased to depict an anglo-saxon looking individual.


This is not true!

What is an icon?
Like the early Christians, our religious practices are based on Old Testament sources, fulfilled in Christ. These include: synagogue worship; ceremonial meals (like the Last Supper); and the ritual of the Temple. Early Christian worship, as described in Revelation chapters 4 & 5, includes vestments, incense, bowing down in prayer, etc.

Our Icons (holy pictures) are not idols

Icon and idol are both Greek words - with very different meanings. An idol is literally an image of God that is "dreamed up" by human beings. By contrast, the Bible calls Christ Himself the "icon" or "image" of God seven times (example, Colossians 1:15).

The Orthodox Church calls for the elaborate use of symbolism and iconography in the interior decoration of the church building.
The style of iconography follows typical Byzantine traditions. To the eye of Western Christians accustomed to the religious art of the Renaissance, Byzantine Art sometimes appears austere.
For Orthodox Christians, however, there was a reason for developing this style. Icons are not simply portraits representing people, but graphic presentations of spiritual truths.
They remain unmoved, formal, almost unreal, only a hint of emotion appearing on the face of figures. Icons are not intended to evoke emotional response as much as understanding and wisdom.
Icons are symbols, not idols. Icons are venerated, not worshipped. When we venerate icons the honor is directed to Christ or to the Saint depicted on the icon, not to the wood, paint, or colors of the icon.

In the Orthodox Church the icons bear witness to the reality of Gods presence with us in the mystery of faith. The icons are not meant to be human pictures, but visual aids to contemplation and prayer.
We are to look beyond the external and deep into the spiritual meaning of living the Christian life. Icons are the witnesses of the presence of the Kingdom of God to us, and so our own presence to the Kingdom of God in the Church.
It is in the Orthodox Christian Faith that icons are not only permissible, but are spiritually necessary because

"the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14). Christ is truly man and, as man, truly the "icon of the invisible God" (Col. 1:15, 1 Cor. 11:7, 2 Cor. 4:4).

The power of icons is not mechanical or magical, but spiritual. It is a working of Gods grace in the act of a personal expression of faith and through the intercessory prayers of the Saints who live in Gods glory.
Icons teach us about Christ and His ministry, as well as, about the Saints and their record of faith.
As sacred art, icons are windows into heaven: they seek to symbolize the transfigured cosmos and the victory of redeemed creation by the glory of Christ. In the words of St. John of Damascus: "The icon is a song of triumph, and a revelation, and an enduring witness to the victory of the Saints."

more....
www.goannunciation.org...



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
Junglejake...quote///////As to what they would look like, I have no idea. All of the images we have of Jesus and Mary came out of europe durring the dark and middle ages, and the rennasance(SP?), so I'm sure they're biased to depict an anglo-saxon looking individual.


This is not true!

What is an icon?
Like the early Christians, our religious practices are based on Old Testament sources, fulfilled in Christ. These include: synagogue worship; ceremonial meals (like the Last Supper); and the ritual of the Temple. Early Christian worship, as described in Revelation chapters 4 & 5, includes vestments, incense, bowing down in prayer, etc.

Our Icons (holy pictures) are not idols

Icon and idol are both Greek words - with very different meanings. An idol is literally an image of God that is "dreamed up" by human beings. By contrast, the Bible calls Christ Himself the "icon" or "image" of God seven times (example, Colossians 1:15).

The Orthodox Church calls for the elaborate use of symbolism and iconography in the interior decoration of the church building.
The style of iconography follows typical Byzantine traditions. To the eye of Western Christians accustomed to the religious art of the Renaissance, Byzantine Art sometimes appears austere.
For Orthodox Christians, however, there was a reason for developing this style. Icons are not simply portraits representing people, but graphic presentations of spiritual truths.
They remain unmoved, formal, almost unreal, only a hint of emotion appearing on the face of figures. Icons are not intended to evoke emotional response as much as understanding and wisdom.
Icons are symbols, not idols. Icons are venerated, not worshipped. When we venerate icons the honor is directed to Christ or to the Saint depicted on the icon, not to the wood, paint, or colors of the icon.

In the Orthodox Church the icons bear witness to the reality of Gods presence with us in the mystery of faith. The icons are not meant to be human pictures, but visual aids to contemplation and prayer.
We are to look beyond the external and deep into the spiritual meaning of living the Christian life. Icons are the witnesses of the presence of the Kingdom of God to us, and so our own presence to the Kingdom of God in the Church.
It is in the Orthodox Christian Faith that icons are not only permissible, but are spiritually necessary because

"the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14). Christ is truly man and, as man, truly the "icon of the invisible God" (Col. 1:15, 1 Cor. 11:7, 2 Cor. 4:4).

The power of icons is not mechanical or magical, but spiritual. It is a working of Gods grace in the act of a personal expression of faith and through the intercessory prayers of the Saints who live in Gods glory.
Icons teach us about Christ and His ministry, as well as, about the Saints and their record of faith.
As sacred art, icons are windows into heaven: they seek to symbolize the transfigured cosmos and the victory of redeemed creation by the glory of Christ. In the words of St. John of Damascus: "The icon is a song of triumph, and a revelation, and an enduring witness to the victory of the Saints."

more....
www.goannunciation.org...


You misunderstood! I wasn't saying it was an icon. I was simply stating that the paintings we have were developed in europe during the middle ages. In those times, people didn't travel, and knew very little of the difference in peoples features and skin tones in different geographic areas. Therefore, they would depict Jesus by what they knew, anglo-saxons. Just decoration, but with a european influence.



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by mystra
heh


sounds like a man wrote that!


why didnt they listen to Mary? Listen to her gospel?

I know women can be trouble, but Mary was different. Taught peace, love, empathy and understanding.

Jesus' soul mate.

Why he loved her most...



...hmmm.... John 13:23:



One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him


And Jesus's soul mate? Isn't the Father Jesus's only soul mate, or if not, aren't we all?

Just F.Y.I., I don't buy into that Jesus married Mary stuff. Jesus was pure, and good, , and holy, and needed no other then the Father. He was the Father made flesh, and no where does it mention the Father has a bride. Why would Jesus take a bride? And why would this totally be neglected in the gospel?


Jake, Jake,....Jake... you are obviously young and have a lot to learn about human nature. Women were written out of the gospels by the early church in order to consolidate power in the hands of men and make them subservient to men. I believe NOTHING that is written in the gospels.



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by groingrinder
Jake, Jake,....Jake... you are obviously young and have a lot to learn about human nature. Women were written out of the gospels by the early church in order to consolidate power in the hands of men and make them subservient to men. I believe NOTHING that is written in the gospels.


My friend, I am truely sorry to hear that. I'm sorry to hear you would have such little faith in God that He would allow complete lies to be spread in his name, in his holy book...



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 01:26 AM
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Junglejake.....Sorry if I misenterpreted your post


Yes, alot of western ideas of what Jesus Christ looked like was paintings done in the renaissance...and therefore many wrongs occured in what the people of that age looked like!

In the East...Icons of Jesus Christ were always consistent in how He looked!
The dark features and beard and long hair of Christ always resembled the Christ of the East...
It is said that the first Icon was painted by St Luke himself!
communityofstnicholas.org...



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