Bush responsible For the North Korean Mess!! Read on!

You know, I heard that Bush and Cheney started the Civil War, assassinated Archduke Ferdinand, bombed Pearl Harbor and paid the Chinese to storm the Chosin Reservoir, installed missiles in Cuba, built the Berlin Wall and assassinated South Vietnamese President Ngo Dinh Diem.

Here's a time line of North Korea's nuclear weapons development:

1992: In May, for the first time, North Korea allows a team from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), then headed by Hans Blix, to visit the facility at Yongbyon. Blix and the U.S. suspect that North Korea is secretly using its five-megawatt reactor and reprocessing facility at Yongbyon to turn spent fuel into weapons-grade plutonium. Before leaving, Blix arranges for fully equipped inspection teams to follow.

The inspections do not go well. Over the next several months, the North Koreans repeatedly block inspectors from visiting two of Yongbyon's suspected nuclear waste sites and IAEA inspectors find evidence that the country is not revealing the full extent of its plutonium production.

1993: In March, North Korea threatens to withdraw from the NPT. Facing heavy domestic pressure from Republicans who oppose negotiations with North Korea, President Bill Clinton appoints Robert Gallucci to start a new round of negotiations. After 89 days, North Korea announces it has suspended its withdrawal. (The NPT requires a 90-day notice before a country can withdraw.)

In December, IAEA Director-General Blix announces that the agency can no longer provide "any meaningful assurances" that North Korea is not producing nuclear weapons.

12 October, 1994: the United States and North Korea signed the "Agreed Framework": North Korea agreed to freeze its plutonium production program in exchange for fuel oil, economic cooperation, and the construction of two modern light-water nuclear power plants. Eventually, North Korea's existing nuclear facilities were to be dismantled, and the spent reactor fuel taken out of the country.

October 1997: the spent fuel rods were encased in steel containers, under IAEA inspection. [6]

With the abandonment of its plutonium program, North Korea began an enriched uranium program. Pakistan, through Abdul Qadeer Khan, supplied key technology and information to North Korea in exchange for missile technology around 1997, according to U.S. intelligence officials.

31 August, 1998: North Korea launched a modified Taepodong-1 missile in a launch attempt of its Kwangmyŏngsŏng satellite. US Military analysts suspect satellite launch is a ruse for the testing of an ICBM. [7] This missile flew over Japan causing the Japanese government to retract 1 billion in aid for two civilian light-water reactors. [8] [9]


en.wikipedia.org...

www.cnn.com...

www.heritage.org...

www.frontpagemag.com...


[edit on 2006/10/10 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by stealthyone

I don't see how Bush and his administration can be held 100% responsible. Will I say that he maybe could have handled the diplomatic process better? I'm sure he could have, but as you can see in the past, any agreements with North Korea are worthless and are only worked to benefit North Korea.

Exactly..
In this case the only thing the Bush admin has done wrong, was to have not taken the NK regime seriously.
The only mistake has been following the 'sanction-em into a corner' policy whcih has majorly backfired. Note that ALL the other states involved in the 6 party talks had requested the US to take up NKs call for bilatereal talks OUTSIDE the framework of the 6 party talks.
Taking NK more seriously would have not led to this IMO.
Now as far as Pakistan having transferred N-Tech to N Korea; well this is a grave mistake(note I'm not even saying oversight;the US KNEW about this) on the part of US foreign policy for the last decade w.r.t. Pakistan.
The US has known since the beginning of the 1990s that Pakistan and NK have been trading missiles for N-Tech(missiles to Pak and N-tech to NK) and has repeatedly overlooked this because of its goals of viewing Pakistan as a 'major regional player/ally'..
'Major regional player/ally' my a**!!!!
Now did/does Bush support this 'ignorance of Pakistan-NK trade' attitude?
Frankly speaking(and I'm not too fond of Bush), one CANNOT really say for sure.
Why?
1)The Bush admin did NOT support/carry forward the Clinton Administration approach of engaging NK. So its possible that the Bush admin may have disapproved of the Pak connections as well. However one can say that the same intel was available to th eBush admin when they came to power and so they had the ability to act then and there(esp after seeing that Pakistani Nuclear power was real: 1999)

2)Note that in his spoken televised response to the NK test, Bush mentioned that the NK regime is a known missiles technology proliferator to Syria and Iran, but he did NOT mention Pakistan, even though its a well known fact that almost ALL of Pakistan's long range ballistic missile fleet consists of re-named/modified Nodong and Taepodong missiles. Now this could mean that Bush is either following the same policy o ignoring Pakistan's role in NK acsension the nucleardom OR it could also mean that he is wart of mentioning Pakistani involvement since so much on the war on terro hinges on Pakistani support.

Very tough to take sides on whether bush failed ONLY in the diplomatic sphere of engaging N Korea or whether he also failed to act on intel available to him on HOW NK was gaining N-Tech.
All in all, a definite failure of US foreign Policy in the last 10 years.
The US loses a lot in its friendship with Pakistan..really a lot.. Big gamble..

Originally posted by DickBinBush

You see where this is going? We're fighting proxy war after proxy war, setting up this country and that country, letting this happen, ignoring that, attack here attack there, invade here, bomb there, threaten them praise the other. It's all a big game. That game is called New World Order.

We're positioning our pieces just right for the big war. The war with China and Russia. Do you honestly think our government welcomes another super power in the world? No.

It's only a matter of time before the big war..then..

Checkmate..

Read my sig.. follow the money. Here's who profits: backers of NWO, international finance, military industrial complex, all world spook agencies, Isreal and her friends, certain people in political capitals.

Who really wins when WWIII hits: world wide finance, because they handle money for both sides in the deal.

If the world goes into ww3, economies will collapse.
I dont think they will win, I think they will be the only ones left with a decent means to surive while the crap goes on else where.

The NWO isnt trying to start world war 3.
Its stupidity at its best.

Why would yu bother, when after the nukes have falled, trade has stopped and billions killed.. what friggen good will it be then.

this NWO Stuff is a load of BS.

We are not pulling the strings to a world war...
We are managing to piss off enough people through our own selfish greed that someone some day is just going to snap and say the hell with it..

if your going to come into my home, bomb my childeren, take my resources.. then whats the use in living. Im going to take one shot with everything I got, and if you wanna battle after that, Bring it on..

But i like that your attempting to sound correct.

Well, we are heading to worldwar anway.. so might as well try to tell them world we MADE it so we'd get there.. cant look stupid during a nuclear war can we.

[edit on 9-10-2006 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by mikesingh
Well, I've been studying this since a number of years culling various intell reports and having some 'insider knowledge' that I cannot divulge.
.................
[edit on 9-10-2006 by mikesingh]

Sorry if I do not believe your claim.....

What is the point of claiming to have some "insider knowledge" if you can't divulge it?....

in actuality Russia and Germany among others were the ones to provide nuclear technology for weapons to NK...not the U.S.

The U.S. made a treaty with NK to provide nuclear technology for peaceful purposes if NK stopped building nukes...

The US-N Korea Geneva Nuclear Accord freezes N Korea's nuke "activities" in return for six billion-plus dollars in aids. N Korea's existing nuclear sites are not immediately affected. The accord does not address the "existing" nuclear devices. Its primary interest appears to be curtailing further expansion of nuke production in N Korea.

www.kimsoft.com...

You fools, it was Carl Rove and Haliburton that set off those explosions in NK to get the Foley story off of page 1.

(never mind the Clinton administration paid Nk and China with vital nuclear technology to get election money. What did he care? he was cheating on his wife with a fat intern and raping other women he had to try to keep quiet)

Originally posted by Muaddib

Sorry if I do not believe your claim.....

What is the point of claiming to have some "insider knowledge" if you can't divulge it?....

I never asked you to believe it! The basic tenet in the field of intel is never to compromise your 'sources'. So, take it or leave it. The choice is yours.

in actuality Russia and Germany among others were the ones to provide nuclear technology for weapons to NK...not the U.S.

So what is the credibility of this Lee Wha Rang who has written this article? Who is he? How come you've been taken in lock, stock, and barrel by what he's written? Have you asked him the same question you've asked me?

And by the way, we aren't talking of nuclear reactors for power generation. We're dealing with designs and fabrication of nuclear weapons with weapon grade uranium/plutonium that needs to be enriched to 95% to make it weapon grade. And that's where the story lies.

And now, you may like to take a peek at this...





[edit on 10-10-2006 by mikesingh]

I leave it... there is no point in you, or anyone else for that matter, to claim to have "insider knowledge" and then claim not being able to say anything about them.... Why claim you have "insider knowledge" to begin with?....

The only possible anwser imo is that you "hope" it will give more credence to your claims.

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Muaddib]

There will be a story in the Washington Times tomorrow detailing the doubt some US military officials have that the explosive events were actually nuclear explosive events.

So, is politics just one big bluff? Are the actions and the moves and the shakes all just mirage? Are we all just imagining this, and the power-brokers planning on keeping us in this state forever, because this is the ideal state? Fear of their mirages...

One has to go a bit abstract and think about the fact that a nuclear explosion may have occurred on this planet within the last 36 hrs. This isn't the Cold War anymore. Mankind has made numerous pledges to disarmament in the last few decades, and these pledges too are mirages.

We're pretty damn start little monkeys, smart enough to end this whole affair with a few ICBMs sailing across the stratosphere. Even if NK and Kimmy-Jong Il botched this test and don't quite have what we think they have, the idea and reality of a new post-modern, asymmetrical nuclear arms age has become viral.

[edit on 10-10-2006 by bbrain]

Well…Khan’s (as well as Pakistan’s) previous involvement with North Korean nuclear weapons ambition and the Paki missile technology barter is not exactly new news.

There are also examples which may indicate North Korea was in possession of nuclear weapons prior to the Bush administration…one instance admitted by Khan himself concerning a visit in 1999.

Originally posted by mikesingh
General Musharraf was and is the blue-eyed boy of the US. The biggest ally in the so-called war against terror! So, they said, ‘Bash on Mush. We’re with you! Because if you’re not with us then we’re sunk, super power or no super power'!

I recall Musharraf stating that the US threatened to “bomb them into the stone age” if they did not comply with US demands, yes?…which is not exactly congruent with the attempted point above.

Also, pinning 50 years of history and the current state of affairs in North Korea on one single US administration is more than a stretch….

Here’s an idea….

Why not hold North Korea responsible for its’ own actions!



mg

Here’s an idea….

Why not hold North Korea responsible for its’ own actions!
mg

Absolutely. I am in agreement here. Doubtless, North Korea is responsible for its actions. But the point here is that Pakistan bartered nuclear secrets for missiles.

And Bush did nothing to stop it, knowing full well that this illegal clandestine trade was taking place between North Korea and Pakistan. So the question is, why did he not stop it? Did he not know the consequences for his inaction?

Double-U didn't stop it because it was good for business. It was a sensitive issue that the general public would not understand and that even his mega-Dolt brain doesn't even really understand. Pakistan is very much no different from Iran, yet they are the ally of the White House. Why?

Who benefits from a new nuclear arms race? The cabal of defense contractors who suck in billions and billions of various international currency through the elephant trunk of a giant perverted Ganesh.

Maybe Bono really wants peace, but any major political figure knows that it's just a pipe dream, and that missiles and tension and soft wars always threatening into conflagrations and daddy's friends pay the big bills. And if the sheeples get rowdy, hiking it up to Defcon 1 will make it nice and cozy for once for that 1% who grease their hands over the oily machinery.

I think everyone now realises that the only true threat to mankind on a global scale is the slap dash ill thought out attempts by the states to play 'king of the planet'.

Personally I'm looking forward to the day that China says - we outnumber you 4 to 1 - stitch this.

Originally posted by mikesingh
Well, I've been studying this since a number of years culling various intell reports and having some 'insider knowledge' that I cannot divulge.

Yes, of course, the triple above top super secret, Crackerjack box decoder ring turning, code blanko el' zulu tango, quadruple biological retina recognition scanning verifier "insider knowledge" that undoubtedly "cannot" be revealed....oh my gosh, will you please give us a break with this invisible, behind the computer screen, I-can-claim-makeup-and-say-anything idiocy? Like you have been working on an NYTs investigative report and cannot "divulge" your "insider" sources garbage, even if threatened with jail time crap.

Want more? But the links would run into pages!!

Umm, yeah, right.

Bush responsible For the North Korean Mess...

Liberal myth.
Historical News Flash, chief investigator mikesingh:
There are a number of presidential administrations "responsible" for this particular North Korean "mess." I am quite sure that in all your time "studying this since a number of years culling various intell reports," you failed--let me repeat that again: implicitly failed--to comprehend or discover this factoid, eh? Apprently, objectiveness is not a strong suit for you, is it? As such, do please carrying on with this particular liberal "I never asked you to believe it" myth...

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Seekerof]

Seekerof

Gosh! Didn’t know that you were a sophistical rhetorician inebriated with the exuberance of your own verbosity. Your unmitigated rambling should get you another WATS award!

You act as if YOU are a know all and an authority on subjects that you haven’t the faintest clue of. Your ignorance is pathetic.

Well, I do not intend getting into a verbal dual with you. It’s a sheer waste of time and effort.

But I would like to mention in passing that apart from your ranting, you haven’t brought out any intelligent arguments to substantiate your line of attack? Did I say intelligent? Hmm….

And this from a seasoned member of ATS! I think your posts call for a little more maturity on your part. But I think I'm asking for a trifle too much.




[edit on 10-10-2006 by mikesingh]

It wasn't bush. I'm a republican, registered. That may make me seem biased. But trust me, I'm not so much.

Lets go back to the source, not the immediate reason.

As much as I would think it was Bush's fault because he is so damned short-sighted and incompetent. It's not him. It was Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld practically brokered the deal with the light-water reactors with NK many years ago. He even said that it was no problem at the time because there was no way to get nuclear matieral for use in weapons from light-water reactors. However, everyone else at the time who was credible, particularly the DOE and the IAEA were saying otherwise. Didn't matter, still went through. Now we have this gem of a problem today. The veritable "Bricktop" (from the movie snatch) of the world has nuclear capability.

So no, it wasn't Bush. It was Rumsfeld. The same guy who sold the WMDs (chemical) and american weapons to Saddam. Who later used them on the Kurds and Iranians. Interesting coincidence now that I think about it.

Edit: By the way, it's not an administration who is directly at fault, now or in the past. It is because unscrupulous individuals do underhanded things without any checks or accountability, hence the Rumsfeld situation.

As a republican, I've been very embarrassed these last 6 years. Theres nothing republican about this administration, but thats another thread.

Where are you when we need you, Ike?

Sorry for all the edits. 1 for punctuation, 1 for above, one by accident, and one to post this.

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Galvatron]

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Galvatron]

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Galvatron]

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Galvatron]

Originally posted by mikesingh
And Bush did nothing to stop it, knowing full well that this illegal clandestine trade was taking place between North Korea and Pakistan. So the question is, why did he not stop it? Did he not know the consequences for his inaction?

You can't bash Bush for following American policy vis-a-vis Pakistan which has been in practice for the better part of the last 50 years!!
You can bash american foreign policy if you'd like(and thats a very in thing to do considering that american foregin policy is somewhat in tatters today), and the bush admin's diplomatic capabilities but not much beyond that..

If you have intel sources maybe you can tell me where Rabinder Singh is..

And more important than divulging one's sources of intel, is divulging intel w/o sure means of gaining more than you know..
If you have credible intel, then keep it to yourself and the peolpe who work hard to get it. Barter it for more if you like..But don't divulge it in open fora w/o any assured returns. Then its no longer intel..

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by Muaddib

The U.S. made a treaty with NK to provide nuclear technology for peaceful purposes if NK stopped building nukes...

www.kimsoft.com...

I think I posted a reply to this on some other thread!! doesn't pay to have multi-tabbed browsing all the time now does it!

Anyways..
I don't see how your link implicates Russia or anyone else including China..
Plausible but no proof..