Autopsy: -No Arabs on Flight 77: Part II -

www.sierratimes.com...


HOWEVER, 3 extra passengers are among the dead who were not supposed to be onboard. This is news to me and i wanted to share it with all of you.

Somebody dropped the ball in the rush to the perfect crime, imo.

Read all about it.

[edit on 2-10-2006 by dgtempe]

No Arabs wound up on the morgue slab; however, three ADDITIONAL people not listed by American Airline sneaked in. I have seen no explanation for these extras.

[edit on 2-10-2006 by dgtempe]

Is this old news??? I never heard of the extras on the airplane !!!! Please let me know if this is old news

If it isnt, this is a major discovery!!!

Lets talk about this. Who could they have been? Brainwashed zombies created by this government?

What???

Already been talked about. Even I looked it up years ago. What do we do with the remains that have not been identified. The families of the terrorists have yet to provide DNA nor did they come to the U.S. to reclaim the bodies.

www.cbsnews.com...

(CBS) Among the human remains painstakingly sorted from the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crash sites of Sept. 11 are those of nine of the hijackers.

The FBI has held them for months, and no one seems to know what should be done with them. It's a politically and emotionally charged question for the government, which eventually must decide how to dispose of some of the most despised men in American history.

“I think in Islam, you're supposed to be buried whole, so I would take them and scatter them all over the place,” said Donn Marshall, whose wife, Shelley, died at the Pentagon. “They don't deserve any kind of religious courtesies.”

Little attention has been paid to the terrorists' remains found mingled with those of the Pennsylvania and Pentagon victims.

“It's a unique situation,” said Dr. Jerry Spencer, a former chief medical examiner for the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, who worked 30 years as a Navy forensic pathologist. “The terrorists are usually not in our possession in the United States like this. The other issue is, will the families want them back?"

Four sets of remains in Pennsylvania and five at the Pentagon were grouped together as the hijackers - but not identified by name - through a process of elimination.

Families of the airplanes' passengers and crews and those who died within the Pentagon provided DNA samples, typically on toothbrushes or hairbrushes, to aid with identification. The remains that didn't match any of the samples were ruled to be the terrorists, said Chris Kelly, spokesman for the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, which did the DNA work. The nine sets of remains matched the number of hijackers believed to be on the two planes.

Without reference samples from the hijackers' personal effects or from their immediate families to compare with the recovered DNA, the remains could not be matched to individuals.

With the one-year anniversary approaching, State Department officials say they have received no requests for the remains. The department would be responsible for handling such a request from any government seeking the return of a citizen's body.

how could one even tell if the remains are arab???

i was under the impression that most of the remains couldn't be found...

Thank you, Deltaboy.

This appears to be some kind of obscure project- :shk:

IMO, it lends more credence to the 9/11 conspiracies. Just goes to show you that not one crime is 100% perfect.

Its good to look at it now and re-visit this, since people seem to forget what makes some to this day, still doubt the credibility of that whole nightmare scene.

Originally posted by they see ALL
how could one even tell if the remains are arab???

i was under the impression that most of the remains couldn't be found...

Well, experts in this field can tell the nationality of the dead- be it their bones or whatever they have available. That's what makes them experts.

Excellent piece of disinformation. Have some Navy guy start talking about discrepencies in the autopsy list as if there was an actual autopsy list as if there had actually been a passenger plane crash into the Pentagon. Nice try....but no cigar.

Well, John, perhaps you'd care to post your links claiming the truth?

I'm open to all information.

Are yours directly from the government?

By all means, let us know the real story.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Well, experts in this field can tell the nationality of the dead- be it their bones or whatever they have available. That's what makes them experts.

very true indeed...

i like this thread but it is hard for me to believe in the stuff being discussed...

ok I have a list here of all the passangers..

cnn.com

some of the names that stuck out on my list(though I am not sure why are as follows:

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

source: cnn.com

Like I said I cant explain why these names stuck out at me... but I am going to find out....

I agree, no people.

I have always found it odd, that only a couple of families from people of the planes have come forward, only the downed flight.

Thanks for that info, Tone.

I know having worked for Delta Airlines does not make me an expert on all things having to do with airlines- but- i do know that each flight has a list of all passengers aboard, including all the crew and that is on a database which the airlines keeps on file long after the flight has landed at its destination. It is secret and no one can find out who is on what flight- this is information solely for the airlines.

It is impossible to have three extra people onboard without "someone's knowledge"
It just doesnt happen. So the question remains, who were those people and why were they there?

That list Tone gave is suspicious, imo. We may not have suicide bombers in the Western world, but its possible these people were made to blow up airplanes, by way of government brainwashing programs...etc.

Its very interesting and sad, but we have the technology to make people do others bidding. Lets just say, its not an impossibility.

Originally posted by TONE23


some of the names that stuck out on my list(though I am not sure why are as follows:

Like I said I cant explain why these names stuck out at me... but I am going to find out....

If you look at the link DG gave it will explain why those names stuck out. There are also a few more there too.

Dong Lee, Ruben Ornedo, and Chad Keller all worked for Boeing. Lee also worked for the NSA. Stanley Hall, “the dean of electronic warfare,” (along with Peter Gay, David Kolvacin, and Kenneth Waldie on other flights), worked for Raytheon.

William Caswell was a particle physicist who worked for the Navy. His job was so classified that his family had no clue as to what he did and did not know why he was flying to California.

Charles Droz, LCDR USN Ret, was a software developer for EM solutions (manufacturer of Wide Area Networks).

Robert Penniger worked for BAE Systems, (“an industry leader in flight control systems”), whose Board is comprised of many from the intelligence community. BAE has apparently removed their Board of Directors page, but it list a "who's who" of high level connections to the CIA, DARPA, and NSA.

Robert Ploger and his wife were added “late” to the original CNN passenger list. He is the son of Major General Robert R Ploger USA, Ret, another “flag” link. The other “late” addition was Sandra Teague, a physical therapist at Georgetown University Hospital.

John Sammartino and Leonard Taylor worked at Xontech (missile defense), another company connected to the intelligence community, also with ties to Boeing.

Vicki Yancey worked for Vreedenberg Corp, yet another company connected to the intelligence community. Her father describes her death as a “planned murder.” Her widower works for Northrup-Grumman.

Mary Jane Booth was in a position to know what was going on at Dulles Airport as secretary for American Airlines general manager.

John Yamnicky, 71, Capt USN Ret, was a defense contractor for Veridian who had done a number of “black ops,” according to his son.

Source

Originally posted by dgtempe

Well, John, perhaps you'd care to post your links claiming the truth?

I'm open to all information.

Are yours directly from the government?

By all means, let us know the real story.

Assuming we are talking about Flight 77 that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon I don't have to have a link or links for the truth on THAT one. With 40 years of airline background with everything from pilot to mechanic to crash investigator I can tell you that, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is not only my opinion, but it is a fact that no airliner the size of a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon. Those who still believe so a laboring under a disinformation scheme that is riddled with falsehoods. Those falsehoods would be that a 300,000 pound Boeing 757 could crash into the face of the Pentagon and only leave one piece of aluminum about 3 feet long on the grass; that a private pilot could have flown a Boeing 757 precisely, at ground level into the face of the Pentagon; that the face of the Pentagon through which the Boeing 757 allegedly passed had a number of unbroken wndows on the third floor; that the face of the Pentagon through which the Boeing 757 allegedly passed had little damage at the top floor where the vertical stabilizer would have impacted; that the impact of the Boeing 757 occurred at 0939 when a number of Pentagon clocks show the initial explosion occured at 0931, about 8 minutes prior to the alleged Boeing 757 crash. For starters.

If you have any questions or would like to debate the issue I am at your service.. My only requests are that my opposite be licensed in the same or similar disciplices of the debate that would include, Airline Transport Rating, Flight Instructor, Flight Engineer, Aircraft Mechanic, Aircraft Dispatcher, Control Tower Operator and include on site investigative experience with the NTSB. Thanks.

ok I am doing some digging on these names that stuck out at me... so that I can try to figure out why they stuck out.

1.)Bryan C. Jack- The Senior Executive of the Defense Department-more specifically--budget analyst/director of the programming and fiscal economics division, Defense Department.... Office of the Secretary of Defense...
did he know anything about the missing 2.3 trillion?... if he did it sure would be a hell of a convenience to ersae him.

2.)Wilson "bud" Flagg-He became a rear admiral in 1987, posted at the Pentagon as one of the top officers for the Naval Reserve. he continued to to work as a consultant to the Pentagon after his retirement as admiral from the Navy in 1995.
source: newsday.com
But what was he working on leading up to 911? What kind of information was he privy to?

3.)Charles S. Falkenberg -research director, ECOlogic Corp.-and may have had something to do with the Global Hawk

Oddities around Global Hawk regarding Sep11th attack: At least two passengers of the Sep11th planes had indirect connections to "Global Hawk" and two more worked for Raytheon, one of the developers of Global Hawk

1) Herbert Homer was on United Airlines Flight 175, from Boston, Massachusetts, to Los Angeles, California. Herbert Homer, as described "..worked for Raytheon Co." was the DCE CACO under DCMC Commander - Col. Bryon Young of the RSC Corporate Management (Raytheon) Source: www.acq-ref.navy.mil...

Raytheon developed Global Hawk, which is a "..high altitude, long endurance unmanned aerial reconnaissance system.." and includes "..Raytheon Systems (sensors)" Source: www.airforce-technology.com...

/

2) Charles S. Falkenberg Falkenberg was on AA 77 American Airlines Flight 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, which crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard Falkenberg was a "..director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA.." In 1997, Renu Chaudhry (Ecologic Corp) gave a workshop about EOS Data for the NASA. "..The first phase of DataBlade development will ingest HDF-EOS Grid data. Metadata will be in the file and Grid info in data objects in the database. The image will also be a binary object in the database..." ivanova.gsfc.nasa.gov... "...EOS-WEBSTER (a WEB based System for Terrestrial Ecosystem Research) is a digital library of Earth Science data serving the needs of both the Earth System Science community and the general public..." "EOS Webster" is a mapping system which provides Landsat Images, which are part of the mapping system for the Global Hawk technology (Global Hawk Integrated Sensor Suite Thematic Mapper Simulator (TMS) The Thematic Mapper Simulator (TMS),a Daedalus AADS-1268 scanner, an airborne Modis Simulator) Charles Falkenberg worked on this program. He is mentioned in the team of EOS Webster: "..The Federation GIS Services Cluster:.. We are very saddened to learn of the passing of Charles Falkenberg, an active member of this Cluster since its inception..."

source: 911review.org

4.)Chandler Keller-Boeing propulsion engineer
AND Ruben Ornedo-Boeing propulsion engineer
I cannot find anything on what they were working on at the time...But I am always suspicious of Boeing

5.)Paul Ambrose,

32, of Washington, worked with the secretary of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general, addressing racial and ethnic disparities in health. He had gotten engaged to Bianca Angelino a week ago. They planned to marry next fall in Spain, a country where he spent a year studying. A doctor who graduated from Marshall University School of Medicine in his hometown of Huntington, W.Va. Ambrose had completed a masters degree in public health at Harvard University 2 years ago. He was more than halfway through a fellow with the Association of Teachers of Preventive Medicine and was working directly with the Surgeon General on a number of health issues. "This guy was spectacular," says longtime friend Erin Fuller. "He could've been surgeon general of this country." Ambrose's brother, Kenneth, also was 32 when he died 2 years ago of a congenital health problem. Last year, the 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.
Source: USAtoday.com

Not really sure about this one... other than he was working with preventative medicine.. and we all know how much Big Pharma loves cures..

6.)

Stanley Hall, 68, of Clifton, Va., was "our dean of electronic warfare," said a colleague at Raytheon, a defense contractor. Hall, director of program management for Raytheon Electronics Warfare, helped develop and build anti-radar technology. He was quiet, competent and something of a father figure. "We have a lot of young engineers who looked up to him as a mentor," Raytheon spokesman Ron Colman said. He leaves a wife, a son and two daughters.

source: USAtoday.com

Another important defense contractor employee.

7.)Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president of government relations for Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. and she worked on other health care legislation(which I cannot find yet)

8.)

Robert R. Ploger III, 59 and his wife, Zandra Cooper were from Annandale, Va. Ploger worker for 20 years at Lockheed Martin, where he was a manager in the systems and software architecture department.
Source: usatoday.com

Lockheed martin....hmmmm another defense contractor that has profited handsomely since this horrible day.

9.)

Robert Penninger, 63, of Poway, Calif., was an electrical engineer who had worked for defense contractor BAE Systems in San Diego since 1990.
Source: usatoday.com

yet another defense contractor worker

10.)

Terry Lynch, was a consultant for the New York consulting firm Booz-Allen & Hamilton and a former longtime staffer for Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala. He was attending a meeting at the Pentagon when American Flight 77 smashed into the building. Lynch served as a Shelby aide for 15 years, starting in 1982 when Shelby was a Democrat in the House. He also worked for former Rep. John Buchanan, R-Ala.
Source: usatoday.com

he wasnt aboard the flight but was in the Pentagon when the plane hit.

Like I said I am not sure why these names stuck out at me... but after a further look into what they did; at least a couple of them couldve had valueble information regarding certain things concerning the Pentagon(or those in it).

The reason I cant shake this feeling is because of what happened to John Oneill... Am I grasping at straws?... almost certainly.. but its good to know who these people were and who they were affiliated with.

EDIT*--Addition---I still think this is relevent info even if a plane didnt hit the Pentagon.. because these people are all dead either way.


[edit on 10/2/2006 by TONE23]

Originally posted by TONE23

EDIT*--Addition---I still think this is relevent info even if a plane didnt hit the Pentagon.. because these people are all dead either way.

Or are they in very deep black projects now ?

What an opportunity to let people vanish ...

Originally posted by cycles

Originally posted by TONE23

EDIT*--Addition---I still think this is relevent info even if a plane didnt hit the Pentagon.. because these people are all dead either way.

Or are they in very deep black projects now ?

What an opportunity to let people vanish ...

Why is it that so many people on that flight worked in government-related jobs? Isn't that bizarre??

Originally posted by annestacey
Why is it that so many people on that flight worked in government-related jobs? Isn't that bizarre??

It would be bizarre if it were a flight taking off from Green Bay.. but this flight took off from DC... so no nothing wierd about that part at all.

Originally posted by TONE23

Originally posted by annestacey
Why is it that so many people on that flight worked in government-related jobs? Isn't that bizarre??

It would be bizarre if it were a flight taking off from Green Bay.. but this flight took off from DC... so no nothing wierd about that part at all.

Thanks for clarifying that. I was beginning to think that all these people were taken underground for a reason... although they still could have been!

If you have any questions or would like to debate the issue I am at your service.. My only requests are that my opposite be licensed in the same or similar disciplices of the debate that would include, Airline Transport Rating, Flight Instructor, Flight Engineer, Aircraft Mechanic, Aircraft Dispatcher, Control Tower Operator and include on site investigative experience with the NTSB. Thanks.

Sorry, I didn't realise we needed to be qualified to have an opinion on this website. While your apparent qualifications make you a good person to provide insights, it does not exclude myself, or anyone else, from discussing and debating any topic on this website. There are no ranks here, you are a member just like everyone else.

300,000 pound Boeing 757

Actually, from what I understand, the max takeoff weight of a 200 series 757 is around 255, 000 lbs. Is this incorrect? If it is correct, then I find it difficult to believe that a highly qualified, rated pilot would make such a huge error in scale, especially one with investigative experience where details such as this are critical. To the casual observer, this may not seem like a big deal, but I'm sure with your experience you can see where I'm coming from, and why it puzzles me. And considering that in another post on this site (here)
you stated with certainty that the video in question involved an F-117 crashing, when in fact it was quite obviously not an F-117, or even real. So, please forgive me if I question your credentials at this time, as there are a pattern of errors and misjudgements that give me little confidence in comments such as this:

I don't have to have a link or links for the truth on THAT one. With 40 years of airline background with everything from pilot to mechanic to crash investigator I can tell you that, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is not only my opinion, but it is a fact that no airliner the size of a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon.

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Willard856]