Bush given retroactive immunity for warcrimes.

This makes me SICK.

www.infowars.com...

I'm curious as to how everyone feels about this. I'm still looking into what exactly 'defines' an "enemy combatant". Perhaps I'm one and don't even know it.




[edit on 29-9-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

@#$%^&*!!! and furthermore *&^%$#@!!! besides that &^%*$#!!! If you catch my drift.

Well, this almost left me speechless.
"Land of the free.", not anymore. Now I am sitting here wondering, so the President must actually be guilty of warcrimes, to have to have this retroactive protection clause provided.


Promote democracy, yadda, yadda. Wonder if the average American will ever be the same they were, before Bush took office. Come on you guys, you gotta fix your own problems before you can "save" the world from tyranny.

Very sickening. The worst part is nothing will be done about it and there will even be some people who condone the action as necessary. Furthermore, the granting of immunity going back to 9/11 is, in my eyes, an acknowledgment of guilt.

Well it is obvious then that if Americans want to change anything they are going to have to take back their government, which sadly will not happen. Either people are too tired/fat/lazt/apathetic, or they are too busy with work, family, kids, etc, or, worried about losing what they have like houses, cars, freedom(as in to walk around free, not to be put in jail) to even think about taking actually action towards their representitives - and lets not forget that some 1/3 of your Country still supports him which means no concensus and a good chance it could destroy the country. No one is willing to do that. So really the only way is to hope that the 33% wake up soon(Although if they haven't yet, I am not sure what else could be done that would convience them?) so that there is a unified country to go after them.

I still cant beleive that we have been dragged down to this level...
This is America for crissakes...

If i were in the military, I would be one pissed puppy...
"uh, guys... the president just authorized torture on POW's, new orders are, if you get caught, tell them everything you know, and hope they dont do to you, what we are doing to them..."


he just hung all our military out to dry... we can no longer expect civil treatment for any soldiers captured...

I guess in this case, we can only hope that the enemy is much more humane than our leaders...

Also... has torture ever done anything besides support the action that followed...
in other words...
If you are a leader, and you want to do something controversial, then make a prisoner say what will support you (testicles- hammer usually works), and then go do what you want (Iraq comes to mind)

Nothing to see here...move along..nothing to see.

I want to find that in writing where it allows for the Admin to be exempt for any possible prosocutions... I just have to see that. I am not saying I dont believe it.. but, well, I just cant believe they would be so blatant. And if it dates back to 911 then I think this is another admittion of guilt on the part of our leadership.

With the decision by the SC to not allow these tribunals .. you would have thought this would have been the end of this...
But apparently the SC holds little power anymore.. other than to be taken as "advisory".Wtih this; We have seen the erosion of the checks and balances. Executive power has swallowed up the Judicial and has made the legislative little more than a "yes man" for anything this insane Administration wants. Some champion of Anti Torture John McCain is.... Jerk off.. probably planned to suck the dems in and do this from the start... And the stupid Dems fell for it hook line and sinker. If theres one thing I have learned about politricksters over the years; regardless of party affiliation is this: They are all self serving crooks who care as much about the common man as they do the planet Uranus.

Good job American Leadership... way to listen to the public.. After all we are YOUR BOSSES.... not the other way around... JERKS!!!!! Stop raping our country!

Where does this bill leave a Pacifist who is critical of our govt.(both sides)? In potential hot water... What if one of us was victim of this new law...noone would ever know!

I was mad enough when I thought this would be designated to foreigners... but to US citizens as well?

Just as we saw with Hitler and the Nazis'; we are seeing most of this usurpation being done through legal manipulation.

And even more disgusting is how many people actually support this bill.

There is no road too low for these leaders who claim the "higher morale ground"... After all; the ends justify the means right.?.....WRONG! Damn Federal felons!

But hey now we cant even prosocute them when it all does come out..... great way to go.. another slam dunk for the govt. of no accountability....

In regards to Bush doing this...
Well, he can still be brought up on charges, but will at least now have a leg to stand on...

I really doubt the Hague will care if he pardons himself... it wont affect the charges.

But while nazi war criminals were tried, and convicted...
Stalin never was... so the size and power of the country, do seem to affect the ability to prosecute.

Check this out then.

www.youtube.com...

or go to www.alternet.org.

The time will come when even these new bogus laws will not save them.

White House Behind Bars

The basis for any criminal case against the architects of the Guantánamo tribunals and other illegal acts related to the “war on terror” rests on the Geneva Conventions and laws of war—which were incorporated into domestic federal law by the 1996 and 1997 War Crimes Act (18 U.S.C. 2441). These laws provide that any member of the U.S. armed forces or any U.S. national who commits a war crime may be fined or imprisoned for a term as long as life and may even be subject to the death penalty if death resulted from the violation. War crimes are broadly defined as “grave breaches” of Geneva or violations of Geneva Common Article 3, as well as violations of various parts of the Hague Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land....

Under Geneva, there is no form of immunity for such violations either. Geneva states that no party “shall be allowed to absolve itself . . . of any liability incurred.” And if that were not enough, the Nuremberg Charter, which grew out of the Holocaust and remains in full force as a treaty, exhorts: “The official position of defendants, whether as Heads of State or responsible officials in Government Departments, shall not be considered as freeing them from responsibility.” This means that neither the White House nor Congress may simply grant themselves—or others—immunity to get out of this problem. Withdrawing from such long-standing and widely accepted treaty law would be a major and unwise undertaking, but, in any case, officials may not write themselves an exemption into an already signed and ratified treaty. Again, treaties are the law.

This goes way beyond risking the safety of soldiers.

This administration has now been forced to admit that U.S. intelligence agencies
have been abusing and torturing detainees.
AND that to circumvent criminal prosecution, they have employed non-U.S. third parties
outsourcing the worst offenses.

This allows any foreign country or political faction to abuse ANY American citizen,

be they a soldier, journalist, health worker or tourist.

All they have to do is claim that any such poor individual is suspected of spying and this gives them
unlimited power to do as they please.

Now thanks to these madmen, no American citizen is safe.

But this is EXACTLY what they want.

They thrive on chaos and fear.
They thrive on the military indutrial contracts funded to protect us from what they have done.
It's the perfect storm and they will all profit handsomely for years to come.

Ehhhh, someone will stop his horsie one day.

Just a matter of time.

This is total Barbara Streisand.

The only outrage I see, was Democrats and the Supreme Court trying to give terrorists Geneva Convention rights. Terrorists are terrorists, they don't need and shouldn't have the Bill of Rights afforded to them.

does anyone have a link to the actual bill? i want to read it in its own words.

Yeah does anyone has a link to the I won't believe it until I read it.

But if this is true. #%@#$@$#%^#@$@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How that #$% does this happen I THOUGHT THIS IS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm really piss and refuse to BELIEVE it UNTIL I READ IT!!!

Maybe he can pardon himself and his admin in America and have immunity, but if they decide to do something at the Hague that would be a different story. He would be just like those IDF commanders that are unable to leave Israel for fear of being prosecuted the minute they stepped off the plane.

Bushmeister would have to be king of the world to give himself total immunity worldwide.



Pie

Originally posted by bokinsmowl
does anyone have a link to the actual bill? i want to read it in its own words.

thomas.loc.gov...:H.R.6166:
It's only 80 pages below is a snippet from Alex Jones who says he has read the Bill.

Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism

Subsection 4(b) (26) of section 950v. of HR 6166 - Crimes triable by military commissions - includes the following definition.

"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."

For an individual to hold an allegiance or duty to the United States they need to be a citizen of the United States. Why would a foreign terrorist have any allegiance to the United States to breach in the first place?

ok, so this means that any american citizen can be delt with as an enemy or terrorist. i assume that means tourture, being held without trial, and eventual trial by a military court without seeing the "classified" evidence against you.

however, doesn't the below clause also include the president and his administration?

Subsection 4(b) (26) of section 950v. of HR 6166

Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy

they do indeed have an allegiance or duty to the united states... this i feel would leave them open to prosecution as well?? i cant find the section about pardoning themselves, although people have been talking about it. im going to read the entire bill tonight.

Did everyone see where the original link took you?

What a LOAD of propaganda.

No one has apparently read the Bill, only going off of some dems. obviously well timed comments.
(It is election time, this is expected)

Come on people, you are all smarter than this obvious load of BULL.

It is entertaining though..

Semper

This quote is key, imo:

Ask yourself why they would be so careful to protect themselves from accusations of war crimes.

Could that possibly be because they are knowingly committing war crimes?

Yeah. That could be why.


Also, LtL's comment is important:

he just hung all our military out to dry... we can no longer expect civil treatment for any soldiers captured...

Yep. That's exactly how it will play.





[edit on 1-10-2006 by soficrow]