If US or anyone fights Iran, the Russian new weapons will become battle tested

Not that I want Russia to sell weapons to Iran. I don't not like Iran, but I don't like their president, particularley because of the comment "I will wipe all of Israel off the face of the earth". Though, I am angry at Israel, too for saying a similar statement back. Anyway, Russia IS selling arms to Iran, most of them new, or not yet battle tested ones

> link removed<


So, if there is a conflict, sanction, whatever, it probably means that the Russian weapons involved will become combat tested/proven/unproven, right?

Oh, by the way, why can't I find anything about newer weapons in use in Chechnya, their effectivness in Chechnya, etc?


EDIT: Link removed because it didn't work AND was too long for the page.

I googled imaged the TOR M-1 and found an article about sales of it to Iran. Of course, I'm sure ya'll all are aware that Russia is selling weapons to Iran.

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Russian soldier]

Originally posted by Russian soldier
So, if there is a conflict, sanction, whatever, it probably means that the Russian weapons involved will become combat tested/proven/unproven, right?

Yes and no. It still will not be a very good test of Russian weapons as they will not be used to the level of effectiveness that the Russian armed forces would use them. Iranian tactics and strategy from recent history (Iran/Iraq war) leaves much to be desired. Good weapon systems with poor tactical choices made equals destroyed good weapon systems.

The weapons that Russia has sold to Iran will not be used to their full potential. Still they would get some real combat exposure, hopefully that won't have to happen.

That sounds dumb on Russia's part

My personal opinion of course.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by Russian soldier
So, if there is a conflict, sanction, whatever, it probably means that the Russian weapons involved will become combat tested/proven/unproven, right?

Yes and no. It still will not be a very good test of Russian weapons as they will not be used to the level of effectiveness that the Russian armed forces would use them. Iranian tactics and strategy from recent history (Iran/Iraq war) leaves much to be desired. Good weapon systems with poor tactical choices made equals destroyed good weapon systems.

The weapons that Russia has sold to Iran will not be used to their full potential. Still they would get some real combat exposure, hopefully that won't have to happen.

I can't tell you how much I agree with you. You are absolutely right, and I agree with every single word you said

Russian soldier..can you build a list of weapons 'reportedly' sold to Iran by Russia that are of 1990+ vintage?
Then we could sift through that and examine what Iran HAS actually ened up getting and operationalizing. The renaming and re modelling of weapons makes its rather cumbersome to trace back the weapons' origins..

The only "new" Russian weapons that Iran would have that aren't already combat tested is the SA-15 Gauntlet (Tor) SAM system. Other than that, it's all stuff that has seen action before.

I know that Russia sells weapons to Iran. The problem is, I don't know which ones. Does anyone know? I know only of the SA-15 Goutlet. At least, when looking at the weapon on the internet, I found a website mentioning them to Iran.

But there is so much talk on Russia selling/having sold 1990+ weapons to Iran, but where are the links? I'll google this and see what I can find. If someone else finds info on what weapons Russia sold/sells to Iran that are 1990+ or maybe some that were made in the 80s that havn't been combat tested yet.

Most of the weapons in combat today in 3rd world countries are usually of Russian origin anyway ..... (This speaks wonders about durability of their systems)

Dont get me wrong, I love some the weapon designs out of Russia. (Kalashnikov, Simonov, etc). It just seems to be Russia's main export.

I know a number of Americans who have added the old Russian and Soviet weapons to their personal arsenals, myself included.

And the above statement is true as well.....we will never know the Russian weapons systems full potential until we fight the ones who are trained to maximum efficiency with these weapons. (russians, which will hopefully never happen).

BTW... gotta love wolf ammo...

Well most "3rd world countries" will get just that-"weapons affordable to 3rd world countires" which are AK-47s, RPG-7s, T-72s, Mig-21s, Makarovs, etc.

I don't see countries like Afghanistan or Somalia having soldiers runnin around with AK-101s with underbarrel grenade launchers, scopes, and lasers. Neither do I see them equiped with T-90s or Black Eagles, Smerches, SA-11s, SA-15s, Mig-33s, Su-37s, etc.


What you see around the world is old Russian equipment, alot made only shortly after WW2, and some even made during WW2! Of course, you'll also find them with US M-16s, Brittish Cheiftians, etc etc

Originally posted by Russian soldier
I know that Russia sells weapons to Iran. The problem is, I don't know which ones.

SA-15
T-72
RPGs
MiG-29A Fulcrum with AA-10s, AA-11s
Su-25
Su-24 (main weapon is Chinese supplied C-802 anti-ship missile)



So not a lot that isn't pretty much combat tested anyway.


[edit on 21-9-2006 by planeman]

Heres is link that might help you a little bit Russian : Putin pushes greater arms export

Some good points there Russian Soldier and I think that the US would have invaded Iran a long time ago if it was'nt for these ties. I'm sure there 'needs' to be a manufactured event on the US/Israeli front to push forward there agenda IMO. However this

Originally posted by Russian soldier
I don't like their president, particularley because of the comment "I will wipe all of Israel off the face of the earth".

is commonly misquoted an taken out of context as an attempt (imo) by the media to add fuel to the fire. It makes me a bit annoyed. Please read this to get the "quote" in it's full context.

I don't think you will be able to find much information on what weapons where transfered apart from the obvious like AT-5 Konkurs,SA-16 , MiG-29, Kilo Subs with upgrades, Tor-M1, BUK-M1 etc...

The Iranians have just been shoving most newer tech that they got from China/Russia into existing platforms.

Like for example they put Russian engines into the F-14 and so on.

So it will be very difficult to know exactly what they have and to know what is in what they have already.


This is what i have been able to get :

-They upgraded there S-200 system to allow it to fire upto max range of 315km.

-They added passive Infrared and Electro optic scanning/detection to most of there other surafce to air defence systems.

- They used Russian engines, canopy and electronics upgrades etc... in there F-14.

- They where going to get there kilo class subs modded out to allow them to fire Klub-S cruise missiles.
www.sptimesrussia.com...

- They purchased the At-5 Konkurs-M SACLOS wire guided tandem warhead antitank missiles system for a very low cost during the early 90's and have been mass producing it becuase it's cheep to make. It has an armor piercing capability of 800mm:
www.defense-update.com...
www.aeronautics.ru...

- They upgraded there Cobra gunships with Russians parts. I saw somwthing on a website that has a article about it but i cant find it.

- Chinese C-802 anti-ship cruise missiles.

- Chinese 701/702 cruise missiles with elctro optic and they have the one's with radar guided warheads.

- They have Chinese FL-7 Feilong-7 and the Chinese C-101 supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles.
www.fas.org...
www.fas.org...

- They wanted Russian Buk-M1 surface to air missiles. I don't know what happened here :
www.nci.org...
www.janes.com...

- They purchased Russian SA-16 shoulder launched SAM's in November 1992 from Russia :
November 1992 Russia SA-16
www.nti.org...

- They upgraded the Sagger missiles to SACLOS guidence with Tandem warheads. It is based around from what i understand on the chinese version of the Russian Malyutka-2M upgrade :
Raad-t Picture


- They have Misagh 1 and 2 SAM systems which are supposed to be based on chinese QW-1 and QW-2 which are supposed to be based on Russian designs. The QW-2/Misgh-2 are supposed to be SA-16 based/styled or similar to the SA-16 in certain aspects :
Picture 1 of Misgah 1 sam system
Picture 2 of Missagh 2 sam system

- Tor-M1

etc....

Those are just some of the stuff i can think off the top of my head. Iran was supposed to have also recived advanced radars from Russia as well.

[edit on 22-9-2006 by iqonx]

New advanced russian weapons? Hardly. While Iran imported some russian products they are definitely not the most advanced ones. For example they have no Sukhois-30, no modern tanks and lack quality AA defense. Sadams army was certainly technologically more powerfull in first Gulf War - and it was 15 years ago! And we all know how it ended.
They may have advantage over Iraq in troop morale and geagraphy of country, but definitely not in technology.

Originally posted by longbow
For example they have no Sukhois-30, no modern tanks and lack quality AA defense.

There air defence is actually pretty good.

The only think they lack on is good modern long range system like the S-300. When they get that there air defence system will be very decent.

Originally posted by longbow
Sadams army was certainly technologically more powerfull in first Gulf War - and it was 15 years ago! And we all know how it ended.
They may have advantage over Iraq in troop morale and geagraphy of country, but definitely not in technology.

No the Iraqi's are not even close to Iran in weapon tech even in gulf war 1 they where not even close to what Iran has.

During GF1 Iraq had :

System - Quantity

SA-2 = 15
SA-3 = 28
SA-6 = 22
SA-8 = 16
Roland = 24

Total SAM system = 104 air defence systems.

Iran has more hawk missile systems then that alone.

Iran's SAM systems :

SA-2 (superior version with Chinese upgrades and latest radars)
SA-3 (I)
Buk-m1 (latest modernised version from Russia)
SA-5 / S-200 from Russia latest upgrade with 315km range
Improved Hawk
British Rapier
HQ-7/FM-80/Crotale French missile systems
RBS 70 Laser guided air defence system (Sweeden)
Tor-m1 (29 systems/vehicles)

and then you have shoulder launched SAM :

Stinger Systems
Misagh 1
Misagh 2
SA-16(igla-1) imported from Russia in 1992


You can see there is a big difference between the two countries. Obviously i didn't give the quantity of the systems becuase i don't have them but they do have much more systems then Iraq did. They have more rapiers then iraq has combined of every other air defence system.

Then we have anti tank missile systems. What did Iraq have? RPG's and a TOW's?

Iran uses/has :

- Tow + SACLOS wire guided
Imported :
1975 USA 3,400 TOW missiles
Late 1979-1980 USA 19,064 TOWs
www.nti.org...

- Toophan1 (similar to tow + SACLOS wire guided)

- Toophan2 (similar to tow-2a tandem warhead + SACLOS wire guided)
Picture and specs

- AT-5 Konkurs tandem warhead SACLOS wire guided (800mm+ armor piercing)
www.aeronautics.ru...

- Dragon SACLOS wire guided
Imported :
Late 1979-1980 USA 9,717 Dragons

- Super Dragon SACLOS wire guided Tandem warhead (750mm+ AP behind ERA)
Picutre and specs

- Raad-T SACLOS wire guided Tandem warhead
Picture and specs

Those are just some of the wire guided anti tank systems that Iran has they even have tandem warheads and night vision/thermal vision systems.

Please read about the stuff they imported :
www.nti.org...

Also the Iranian tanks are the last of he line Cheiftan tanks which went on to form the British Challenger 1 tanks obviously minus some stuff like Chobom armor etc..

And here is a list of all the stuff Iran manufactures/exports to other countries and for it's own use :

www.network54.com...


as you can tell the Iranians are much more technologically advanced then Iraq has ever been. It is a myth that Iraq is more powerfull then Iran.

During the 1990's the Iranians funded and ran programs to increase the domestic production and research into weapons and self defence technology for there armed forces.

Above i have just listed a few weapons but Iran has much much more. There missiles program is generations beyond anything that Iraq had.


[edit on 22-9-2006 by iqonx]

I think you missed his point, he said in 1991 Iraq was more advanced than Iran, which is true, and the US back then still whooped Iraq. Before GW1 Iran fought Iraq to a stalemate over years, the US beat Iraq in weeks. And if you want other historical match ups look at Operation Praying Mantis.

NOTE: Before you say anything, US military power has not stayed the same since 1991 either.


[edit on 22-9-2006 by WestPoint23]

I don't care what kinda of weapons Iran has or how tacticle they are. I play Starcraft on Battle.net and let me give you a glimpse from the eyes of a army commander playing computer games. Iran has one base... Iran. America aka The NWO has multiple bases. They can attack from all over the world and hit Iran. But Iran can never win because it must destroy US bases alover the world. US has already won!

the only way to win a battle is to expand and gather resources and become more powerful and dominate the battle ground. America has done an amazing job. They are not only all over the world. They are next door at IRAQ! can you believe it i just realized that they are indeed become a WORLD superpower

G'day all,

Just a few things I'd like to bring up with some pretty good links to back them up. I think that the US would be looking into conspiracy theories regarding Russian arms trade to Iran and mid-east in an attempt to verify or discredit all reports before they launch any sort of action, because they do not want to be caught out so to speak when action is authorized.

Anyway, here a article/document proving Russian Sales to both Iran and Syria of Russian S-300 missiles.

www.joevialls.co.uk...

3rd title down on the list

"During a visit to Ramallah in Palestine on April 29, 2005, President Putin commented: "Expecting Mahmoud Abbas to fight terrorism effectively, we have to realize that a slingshot and a handful of stones won't do the job." Then Putin paused, before adding, "Which Israel clearly understands."

Also on this list of titles is one titled "Russia ready to vaporize Jewish State

" About one month ago, Russia discreetly invoked MAD again, but this time in the Middle East in direct response to hysterical Israeli threats to nuke Iran with submarine-launched American Harpoon missiles. Quietly and with the minimum of fuss, Russia deployed its most advanced tactical nuclear missiles and crews to both Syria and Iran, thereby sending an unmistakable diplomatic signal that if Israel attacked Tehran or Damascus with nuclear weapons, Russia would in return instantly and anonymously vaporize the Jewish State.
This is not an idle or exaggerated threat. The Russian missile type deployed in Syria and Iran is the P270 Moskit [Mosquito], known in NATO circles as the SS-N-22 "Sunburn", once described by Rep. Dana Rohrabacher as "the most dangerous anti-ship missile in the Russian, and now the Chinese, fleet.” The ship borne version of this missile is launched from deck mounted quad tubes, but since Rohrabacher made his comments, Russia has adapted the Sunburn for submerged launch from submarines, air launch from Sukhoi 27s, and single surface launch from modified 40’ flatbed trucks. Nowadays, western defense experts unambiguously view all versions of Sunburn as the “most dangerous missiles in the world”.

So you see, Russia also has an agenda in regard to the mid-east and does not want the US in any-way to own or control the majority there or have the influence of power, for that threatens the oil fields in the Caspian Sea area aswell.

Also, short of engaging directly in conflict with the US, Russia is still fighting a proxy war with them by supplying and arming "third person" countries to fight this war for them.

Wow thats great news. But I'm sure America has stated that Sunburn missles are the most dangerous in the world just to trick them into not upgrading. America has a secret missile in store for these guys.