If US or anyone fights Iran, the Russian new weapons will become battle tested

Russia has so far the deadliest missile, the Topol M... but that's for another thread


Iran's military is interesting, due to the fact that it is composed of BOTH Russian and US weapons. This is very interesting.

I don't know if Putin wants to wipe out Israel, but I certainly hope he doesn't want to, I got relatives in Israel! Plus, I never hated Israel nor any Middle Eastern country and hope that someday they could all work peacefully to solve bigger problems such as poverty, terrorism, etc.

Only time will tell...........................


Oh yeah, if Iran DOES get the S300, any attackers will be in trouble, because air strikes, attacks, and reconaissance are very important to a good attack. Ground forces and air forces must work together to be successful, and such a good system could be a huge threat for all aircraft, plus a defense against cruise missiles, etc.

Oh yeah, if Iran DOES get the S300, any attackers will be in trouble...

Not if those attackers are armed with DEW's. Don't think the US Airforce wouldn't have thought about the S300 or the much vaunted S400. I'm afraid your little bit of Russian ingenuity has been left a long way behind. They've already test fired a 25KW solid state laser cannon from an F35 just recently and they're looking to have 100KW lasers deployed in the fighters by 2010 or a little later. A 25KW laser will stuff up any missile caught in the beam. A 100KW or greater beam would fry the missile and then the launcher. It's all the more reasonable to think that if they can fit one to an F35, they'll be able to retrofit one to an F15/F22 or an F18 in a fuselage pod. Then you have to think of HPM systems as well.

I'm afraid Russia has neither the financial resources nor the capacity at present to keep up with the US or some of its allies in this line of research. You also don't have the lead time in the development of these weapons because of the crises you've been through. You could catch up, for sure. Russian scientist are some of the best around, but with the "black projects" side of things, you're quite a few decades behind. Quite a few, if the comments of Ben Rich (former Lockheed Vice President) are anything to go by. God help you if the MIC (military-industrial complex) in the US decide to let out a few of their "little surprises", and I don't mean the UCAV's or Aurora.

Originally posted by GhostITM

Not if those attackers are armed with DEW's. Don't think the US Airforce wouldn't have thought about the S300 or the much vaunted S400. I'm afraid your little bit of Russian ingenuity has been left a long way behind. They've already test fired a 25KW solid state laser cannon from an F35 just recently and they're looking to have 100KW lasers deployed in the fighters by 2010 or a little later. A 25KW laser will stuff up any missile caught in the beam. A 100KW or greater beam would fry the missile and then the launcher. It's all the more reasonable to think that if they can fit one to an F35, they'll be able to retrofit one to an F15/F22 or an F18 in a fuselage pod. Then you have to think of HPM systems as well.

The same way that you are going to stop with your laser shield the new Topol-M
? ? ? ?


[edit on 24-9-2006 by Russian Boy]

[edit on 24-9-2006 by Russian Boy]

HAHAHA Sunburn = the best missile in world. Hardly. Maybe it's good in same scenarios (such as in Straits of Hormuz fired from ground) but otherwise it's pretty unimpressive, especially concerning payload and range. C'mon with 120km range the launching platform would never get close enough to Carrier Battle Group. Also they need to find it first. And it's use against ground targets would be totall stupidity, not to mention that it won't work (it's very different to attack naval target and ground one - for example radar won't be much help in later case, you'll need some kind of TERCOM or satellite datalink - something Iran and Syria certaionly don't have.IMHO long range ballistic missiles are much better and cheaper way how to do this) Not to mention that the introdution of Sea Ram and RAM pretty much negated all advantages of supersonic cruise missiles, now they are just obsolete behemonts (too big, not stealthy and short ranged).

And of course russian have no nukes in Syria and Iran at all, they are not idiots. They didn't start nuclear war during all crisis of Cold War and now you expect them to do it, because of Iran and Syria? Stop smoking it.

AD Iranian air defense - they need much more of them than Iraq had, because of their large territory, just look at the map, their current air defenses are spread too thinly and there are a lot of holes through which could US planes and Tomahawks easily sneak.

[edit on 24-9-2006 by longbow]

Russia is hardly behind on anything, alot of stuff you would call extrememly modern-that is, unless all you do is watch Rambo all day and watch Sylvester Stalone destroy a 1960's Hind helicopter with a pistol.

You should check the "Russia's military strength and compared to other countries" thread" and you will see that Russia's military is excellent. It is comparable to USA's.

As for lasers, Russia would probably keep quiet about them, and then surprise the world. And yeah, Topol M is unstoppable by lasers. In addition, you said they would field those in 2k10. So much for war in Iran.

Maybe Russia will field a laser earlier? Who knows.

Russia is hardly behind on anything,

My boy, you'd be surprised just far behind you really are. There are things being developed in black projects in the US (and with co-operation in other countries) that would make your armed forces conventional capacity look like something akin to using stone axes to fight off ak47 armed soldiers.

These present stealth technologies and all the other known stuff, is nothing. Old hat.
The stealth technology that you see now, on the F22 especially, is more than 20 years old. The F22 first flew in 1990. Research and development had already been in train for 5-10 years previously. Essentially, it's technology is way outdated.

Ben Rich, ex Vice President and head of Lockheeds "Skunkworks", stated in his retirement speech in 1993, that what was already in the arsenal of the US, including the F22 and such, was something like 6 to 7 decades behind the technology that they, themselves had been working on, as "black projects". Let alone other places working on projects.....people like Los Alamos, Sandia Labs, TWR etc. That would put your country so far behind it wouldn't be funny.

We know all about your country's research into scalar field weapons, EMF weaponry and the like. We know about all your tests and such. We also know that you can't afford these systems, either to buy or develop. You've got these excessively rose coloured glasses on and I'm afraid you're going to get a huge surprise when you join the army. I actually hope that you enjoy your time there, but I'm afraid the reality of things and what you may believe is the case are two different things.

Well the Russia seems to want the Iran to be equiped. Bush want be happy about that



Russia Selling missiles to iran in order to protect Irans nuclear reactors



[edit on 25-9-2006 by Russian Boy]

Originally posted by Russian soldier


You should check the "Russia's military strength and compared to other countries" thread" and you will see that Russia's military is excellent. It is comparable to USA's.

How is that when Russia must be like 10 years behind the US and does not have enough money to maintain things?

The next thing I am going to hear is Iran and China's military is comparable to the US.

Originally posted by Russian Boy
Well the Russia seems to want the Iran to be equiped. Bush want be happy about that

Russia Selling missiles to iran in order to protect Irans nuclear reactors

They are doing it just to make money, nothing else. If they really wanted Iran to be equiped they would sell them much more. Currently despite your claims about Russian- Iranian relationship, ayatollahs seem to prefer their old western and domestically manufactured weapons. Certainly they have less russian made equipment than Iraq had for example.

Also I think Russia definitely doesn't want Iran to become regional nuclear power, at least until ayatollahs are gone. That was the reason why they sugested to enrich the uranium in Russia.

US GDP = $13 Trillion
Russian GDP = $1.6 Trillion (2005)

Sorry peeps, a $1.6 trillion economy cannot compete militarily with a $13 trillion economy.

There no doubt that Russia has smart people, but all things being equal, money=power.

dunkindonuts thats a funnie analogy by comparing war to games. I agree with you. Iran can try to defend, but their offense will not match the States their are just a sitting duck. There are too many targets to handle. It's like getting jumped u can't do anything but defend and run.

I think the future of wars will be like video games with a press of an button and we all know the best gaming geeks comes from Europe, America, and Japan. It's all over boys and girls.

"Fight like you train and train like you fight." That says it all for any of these tinhorn wanna-be countries with lots of toys they don't know how to play with. It's not the equipment and weapons, it's the soldier. And these guys ain't got it. All you have to do is look at Iraq and note that not one Allied aircraft was defeated when engaged by enemy pilots. Every time Israel has been attacked it's been by superior arab forces in number and even equipment they have defeated them. The obvious conclusion is that arabs can't fight so they turn to blowing themselves up.

To Cruizer.

Iranians are not Arabs.

They also have a different military structere and trainning system to the arab forces.

I think most of their weapons were reverse-engineered from a crate of small arms that fell off the back of a US jeep back in the early 70's.

If US or anyone fights Iran, the Russian new weapons will become battle tested

And promptly turned into scrap metal. Lets hope Iran recycles.

Sorry to be so blunt(oh that sounds good)but in GW1 and Kosovo everyone said America was going to get its ass kicked by incredibly sophisticated and wonderously cheap Russian weaponry. And it all turned out to be crap.

The Iranians are Persians in name by choice but they don't have a better system of training that USA by any stretch of the imagination. Remember they were in a deadlock war for 8 years with Iraq and couldn't beat them and we went through Iraq like poop through a goose

Originally posted by Russian soldier
Russia is hardly behind on anything, alot of stuff you would call extrememly modern-that is, unless all you do is watch Rambo all day and watch Sylvester Stalone destroy a 1960's Hind helicopter with a

pistol.

You should check the "Russia's military strength and compared to other countries" thread" and you will see that Russia's military is excellent. It is comparable to USA's.

As for lasers, Russia would probably keep quiet about them, and then surprise the world. And yeah, Topol M is unstoppable by lasers. In addition, you said they would field those in 2k10. So much for war in Iran.

Maybe Russia will field a laser earlier? Who knows.

Russia is far behind. Nationalism is a good thing, but stop exaggerating. Ever heard of how many Russian scientists leave Russia (including their military concepts and technologies) since the Russian government cannot pay them properly. Ever heard of the Kursk and similar incidents caused by a lack of capital and decent maintenance? Ever heard of the sales of existing Russian military equipment (no common orders)?

While Russia has the capacities (and the nuclear warheads) to become a strong power, they still have a very long way to go. Not to speak of the growing demographic decline due to a lack of first necessities of life and medical equipment.

What Russia does have is the most beautiful girls on earth

Originally posted by GhostITM
Not if those attackers are armed with DEW's. Don't think the US Airforce wouldn't have thought about the S300 or the much vaunted S400.

Explain Kosovo where the US air force failed so badly in interdicting the Serbian ground forces which were protected by far older systems than Iran currently deploys.

I'm afraid your little bit of Russian ingenuity has been left a long way behind. They've already test fired a 25KW solid state laser cannon from an F35 just recently and they're looking to have 100KW lasers deployed in the fighters by 2010 or a little later. A 25KW laser will stuff up any missile caught in the beam. A 100KW or greater beam would fry the missile and then the launcher. It's all the more reasonable to think that if they can fit one to an F35, they'll be able to retrofit one to an F15/F22 or an F18 in a fuselage pod. Then you have to think of HPM systems as well.

All this talk of 'retrofitting' is almost completely ludicrous considering how infrequently the American air force manages to incorporate modern weapons effectively into their force structure. The F-16CJ was strangely the only plane that could effectively ( i remember at all but anyways) employ HARMS against Serbian forces and that proved to be quite ineffective in ending the threat the Sam's posed to them. I have posted extensively on topic so feel free to go search or continue making it up as you go.

If you think the USA deploys DEW's the following list should convince you that they are not the only one.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm afraid Russia has neither the financial resources nor the capacity at present to keep up with the US or some of its allies in this line of research.

Nonsense.I normally try employ more words but sometimes you get claims so ludicrous that you can dismiss them with one word....

You also don't have the lead time in the development of these weapons because of the crises you've been through.

Well they were far ahead of the US in terms of DEW's so maybe the US actually caught up to the two decade lead the former USSR had?

You could catch up, for sure. Russian scientist are some of the best around, but with the "black projects" side of things, you're quite a few decades behind.

I would say they are not particular great in any sense but that their scientific output and input is well focused in state sponsored institutions that are far more effective than research institutions in the west that hide both their successes and failure while such does not happen in Russian state facilities.

Quite a few, if the comments of Ben Rich (former Lockheed Vice President) are anything to go by. God help you if the MIC (military-industrial complex) in the US decide to let out a few of their "little surprises", and I don't mean the UCAV's or Aurora.

I believe that the USA has weapons decades in advance of what they currently deploy in the field but i also believe that what Russia deploys ( in the same kind of secrecy) is more effective and deadly.

Originally posted by Mdv2
Russia is far behind. Nationalism is a good thing, but stop exaggerating.

There is no evidence i have stumbled upon that credible proves that Russia is far behind in what types of forces they field currently. Please refer to the next links for some reading material where i prove that assertion.

ttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread192362/pg2

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Ever heard of how many Russian scientists leave Russia (including their military concepts and technologies) since the Russian government cannot pay them properly.

Well that may very well be true and all but how long will it take for enough Russian scientist to leave before Russia losses their strategic advantages? I have no idea but if you want to suggest a days/months scenario per scientist....

Ever heard of the Kursk and similar incidents caused by a lack of capital and decent maintenance? Ever heard of the sales of existing Russian military equipment (no common orders)?

They do not need as much equipment as they currently employ and converting such material into cash seems like a good idea to me... Accidents happen and there has been at least a few incidents over the last decade where American subs made it back to port with plenty of damage at least one of which had to be written off.... Do you have actual evidence that the Kursk sinking had anything to do with maintenance and not a weapons test or actions by other nations?

While Russia has the capacities (and the nuclear warheads) to become a strong power, they still have a very long way to go.

They are currently the the best armed power on the world and they hold a clear strategic edge.

Not to speak of the growing demographic decline due to a lack of first necessities of life and medical equipment.

What Russia does have is the most beautiful girls on earth

Even Putin admits that Russia faces severe ( he said during a Christmas address of all times) problems that has the country facing the social problems normally seen in third world countries.... Russia is not the best place to live during a peace but when a strategic war breaks out between the USA and Russia you would be a few dozen time safer in Russia. Russia has been preparing for survival at any cost while American has prepared to exploit the peace while it lasts.

Stellar

Originally posted by GhostITM
My boy, you'd be surprised just far behind you really are.

Good you reserved this comment for someone else.

There are things being developed in black projects in the US (and with co-operation in other countries) that would make your armed forces conventional capacity look like something akin to using stone axes to fight off ak47 armed soldiers.

I would say the same is true for Russian black projects but since Russians are so stupid and had/have no way to hide such projects ( they had such a open society after all) it just can not be.

These present stealth technologies and all the other known stuff, is nothing. Old hat.
The stealth technology that you see now, on the F22 especially, is more than 20 years old. The F22 first flew in 1990. Research and development had already been in train for 5-10 years previously. Essentially, it's technology is way outdated.

It's why the Russians never invested much effort in stealth; who turned out to be the fools?

Ben Rich, ex Vice President and head of Lockheeds "Skunkworks", stated in his retirement speech in 1993, that what was already in the arsenal of the US, including the F22 and such, was something like 6 to 7 decades behind the technology that they, themselves had been working on, as "black projects". Let alone other places working on projects.....people like Los Alamos, Sandia Labs, TWR etc. That would put your country so far behind it wouldn't be funny.

Why would it put the formed USSR now Russia so far behind? Why assume that they have somehow fell behind by seven decades? Why assume that they are not still a few decades ahead on at least a few subjects such a lasers weapons where they had a multi decade lead according to Teller and other?

We know all about your country's research into scalar field weapons, EMF weaponry and the like. We know about all your tests and such. We also know that you can't afford these systems, either to buy or develop.

Scalar weapons have been deployed by the USSR since 1963 and in wide scale and active use since the early 80's. Check Bearden's work if you really think they did all the research but failed to implement the technology.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Russian operate facilities ( well stuff we know about for sure) with far higher power capacities than those HAARP is even aiming to reach.

Then there was the 'woodpecker grid' ....

en.wikipedia.org...

You've got these excessively rose coloured glasses on and I'm afraid you're going to get a huge surprise when you join the army. I actually hope that you enjoy your time there, but I'm afraid the reality of things and what you may believe is the case are two different things.

I suspect you will be surprised to learn that Russia has a clear strategic advantage with just their conventional ( nuclear) intercontinental weapons and that there are far deadlier weapons in wide usage to this day. Had any strange weather lately?

Stellar

Originally posted by Number23
US GDP = $13 Trillion
Russian GDP = $1.6 Trillion (2005)

Sorry peeps, a $1.6 trillion economy cannot compete militarily with a $13 trillion economy.

Explain to me in the most simple terms you can ( your doing very well so far) how you think the GDP numbers is somehow relevent in this discussion....

There no doubt that Russia has smart people, but all things being equal, money=power.

All things being equal smartness + money does not eqaul strategic power as our current world situations proves so effectively. Just add up the 'conventional' nuclear weapons being deployed by both nations to see who's got the clear advantage. Some hints....

ttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread192362/pg2

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Stellar