Obsession: The Movie Exposing Radical Islam

Originally posted by DJMessiah

Originally posted by laiguana
What the Quran says about terrorism:

How about reading my replies in these topics, to see what the Quran really says?

Thats what you as a Muslim find in the Quran on the subject, but the Islamofascists keep turning pages until they find a verse that in there minds suits there evil needs.

What your religion lacks is top down leadership , take the Catholics as an example they have there pope then Cardinals,bishops and preists etc. Which gives them a reasonable sense of order and communication across its 1 billion adherants.

It seems in Islam nearly anyone can whack on a round hat call them selves an Imam and start teaching whatever they interpret from the Quran.

I personally dont think anywhere near enough is being done amoungst your people to fix the problems of Radiclisation and Islamofascism.

But being an optimist i hope and like to think it will improve.

Cheers.

Originally posted by AlteredStates
The indoctronation of the children really upset me. That little girl saying all those things

it's pretty sad that they dont allow the children to grow and decide for themselves.

You ever seen the film" Jesus camp"? Indoctrination comes in all tinges of religion and faith based sects. Let's stop pretending this is a "MUSLIM" problem. Because we can run out all the evangelical christian leaders in the states who are sliding in this direction of "Radical Fundamentalism" But the U.S. is too blind to see.

It's time everyone wakes up and sees that christian evangelical extremists are just as bad for their beliefs as is any radical islamic fundamentalist.

BTW Timothy Mcveigh was a christian evangelical believer. And they also don't paint him as a terrorist but a bomber? It's because he was white and from the midwest.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Originally posted by DJMessiah

Originally posted by laiguana
What the Quran says about terrorism:

How about reading my replies in these topics, to see what the Quran really says?

Thats what you as a Muslim find in the Quran on the subject, but the Islamofascists keep turning pages until they find a verse that in there minds suits there evil needs.

What your religion lacks is top down leadership , take the Catholics as an example they have there pope then Cardinals,bishops and preists etc. Which gives them a reasonable sense of order and communication across its 1 billion adherants.

It seems in Islam nearly anyone can whack on a round hat call them selves an Imam and start teaching whatever they interpret from the Quran.

I personally dont think anywhere near enough is being done amoungst your people to fix the problems of Radiclisation and Islamofascism.

But being an optimist i hope and like to think it will improve.




Cheers.

If anything Christianity is more closer to facism in america than anywhere in the middle east. Look at what James Dobson and Pat Robertson monopolized in america by their propaganda. And both are extremists to the core in their belief. Fascism is the merging of corporate and state. Islamic Faith is so far away from that it's just a hypocritical term as the word is defined. These pundits who lean right do not even study what these terms mean and also it's meant to degrade the muslim faith.

All Religious Sects are corrupted,amigo. It's western arrogance to dictate to others how religious organizations should be run. I mean you just are far off the mark on this one.

Right now numbercruncher, we are becoming the radicals by invading any territory preemptively. Think what you want, eventually you are going to have to look in the mirror and see what the truth is. And guess what? We can't go back. ANY country can invade another if they are felt to be a threat. Do you think we are going to win the hearts and minds of the people of Iran.If we bomb them directly? I don't think so. The U.S. are the biggest failures in this.
The insulated bubble mentality is destructive to my country.

We are such hypocrites. It's astounding to me how many people keep feeding on these myths of the middle east. The West is now the fascist aggressor. Just look at the corporate logos all across the board sponsoring this failure in loss of human life. Just look at how the soldiers are being treated. We privatized everything and now it's failing all across the board. We don't give a crap about these soldiers.

It's all bumper sticker ideology. And it won't work and they will try to spin it as not going hard enough after the enemy. But ask yourself all of the wealthy people in america hardly serve any kind of duty. Why is it the majority of our army is in the poor class bracket? Because Chickenhawks always shout the loudest for violence against foreigners. Xenophobia, you have to love it.

Originally posted by MRGERBIK

BTW Timothy Mcveigh was a christian evangelical believer. And they also don't paint him as a terrorist but a bomber? It's because he was white and from the midwest.

Cut the racist b/# - Everyone is happy for your to refer to this scum as a Terrorist, he wasnt labled terrorist at the time because that was 1995, bomber fitted, if it happened now or any other time after 2001 the media circus would of all been calling him a terrorist.

seems to be the norm for muslim extremists (note i am not refering to all muslims some are really good people) to call for jihads on the west
but if the west called for a new crusade on the east then the west would be in the wrong

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Originally posted by MRGERBIK

BTW Timothy Mcveigh was a christian evangelical believer. And they also don't paint him as a terrorist but a bomber? It's because he was white and from the midwest.

Cut the racist b/# - Everyone is happy for your to refer to this scum as a Terrorist, he wasnt labled terrorist at the time because that was 1995, bomber fitted, if it happened now or any other time after 2001 the media circus would of all been calling him a terrorist.

That's not racist,amigo. It's truth and the sad thing is you don't realize Radical Fundamentalism is building in christianity just as it is in Islam. And it's because of people who fuel hatred for anyone who doesn't believe their propaganda.

If Pat Robertson was Venezulan and said we have to take out Bush, he would be referred to as a terrorist. Im sorry to shatter the mirage. But Pat Robertson
got away with it because he was caucasian and wealthy.

Look at the U.S. Prisons, see who most of the political prisoners are in today. See who is treated as a enemy combatant and who can say whatever they want from they nationally syndicated Television program "700 Club"

Does anyone have that clip of "jesus camp" where they want their children to be martyrs. It's creeping fundamentalism no doubt about it. And we can look the other way as much as we want to, the problem is the heartbeat of fascism is strong in America. We arrested Veteran for godsake for wearing "Veterans against the war" shirt.

Why is it numbercruncher that NONE of these wealthy blowhards have ever served who support this war in it's fullest? Why is that? Why can't anyone put their own blood in the game? Is that too much of a price for their own policy

And here's something to think about. John Mccain was smeared by Rove's cabal against the President by giving a rumor that he adopted a black child. Is that support ing the troops? They freaking smeared a P.O.W. and you seriously want to trust any trite propaganda telling you to fear someone still ? Xenophobia is one of the worst disorders to have. And the West has been infected by it.



Cheney didn't even step in one foot of a recruitment place. He got 5 deferments. Yet most of these kool aid drinkers want to attack service men over and over for voicing against the middle east conflict. All we are doing is bankrupting this country further and breaking the Military's back over Fear and Greed.

All religious extremism is bad when violence is taught as the way to the truth. The "convert or die" way of thinking is dangerous and should not belong in this world. That includes all religions. Currently this Islamic Extremism is the one that is threatening my country with death, that is why it is being discussed here. If a Rabbi or the Pope was threatening my country and the lives in it because of our beliefs, this topic would be about them. There is no debate that the religious extremists are out of control, but they aren't all chanting death to America either.

If anything Christianity is more closer to facism in america than anywhere in the middle east. Look at what James Dobson and Pat Robertson monopolized in america by their propaganda. And both are extremists to the core in their belief. Fascism is the merging of corporate and state.

That is one aspect thereof---in radical islam it is the literal merging of religion and state.

In the relationship to conventional corporations and power structures fascism and radical Islam are quite distinct, obviously, and these radicals are typically opposed by the traditional family and corporate powers in Islamic-majority countries.

There are major similarities as well. To start with, the explicit denigration of rational intellectualism, democracy, and of course women's rights. Nazism carried a huge theme of paranoid external blame of outsiders---and Jews in general---for all the nation's problems. Radical Islamists tend to have quite a similar discourse. And of course an unmitigated religious superiority motivating cruelty and war, akin to the Nazis' delusions of intrinsic racial superiority.

The closest parallel to radical Islam is not to European fascism, but the extreme emperor-worship of Imperial Japan.

But it is its own thing as well, in significant ways, specifically in relation to the theology of a specific religious text.

Unfortunately Osama bin Laden is closer to original textual fidelity---like Martin Luther---than many wish to admit. Some of the supposedly moderate Islamic scholars who dispute him cannot say that his 'holy war' is wrong or fundamentally unjustified theologicaly, but that he wasn't in a sufficiently recognized authority to declare such war.

By the way, when James Dobson (nobody I admire at all) heads his own professional army with modern equipment, supplied by Russia, and which is more powerful than the U.S. Army---as is the equivalent in Lebanon---then radical Christianity is as dangerous as radical Islam.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by mbkennel]

[edit on 24-11-2006 by mbkennel]

[edit on 24-11-2006 by mbkennel]

Great, how about a movie going in in depth into all American white supremacy groups, their huge training compounds, drug trafficking, etc, and then call for destruction of entire USA?

How does that sound?

Again, anyone believing the "global terrorism" hype, give your selves a break and look into the real top man of Al Quaida, the man that TRAINED Osama Bin Laden, the man name Ali Mohamed.

Then feel free to read about how at least since 1989 (the official end of Soviet/Afghanistan war), that very man, Ali Mohamed, became a payed FBI informant, all while he was allowed to travel around the world.

Incedentally, the places that he traveled to became world famous shortly after, do to terrorist attacks against USA interests.

Further more, Ali Mohamed also worked with CIA and US Army intelligence.

When up to speed, come back and talk about little fluff propaganda like the half-baked "obsession".

[edit on 25-11-2006 by iskander]

2 words...

Wartime Propaganda

Hate is spreading but it's not on such a large scale the media wants you to think it is. Who's fault is it that we are hated? Don't blame muslims for your own actions, President Bush called for the invasion of a stable sovereign nation, IRAQ. Yes it is an invasion, not a liberation, IRAQ today is in far worst shape than it was under Saddam's rule. Think for yourselves make your own conclusion. Your worst enemy is right now is your leadership, The leadership of the Bush administration and the power that holds them. Stay out of the middleast's business and they wont touch you, you can't go around policing the world, noone will ever respect you. America is at a stalemate at the moment and the media is pulling out everything they can to spread nationalism and hatred for the muslims of the middleeast.

[edit on 29-11-2006 by unconscious_war]

Originally posted by unconscious_war
2 words...

Wartime Propaganda

Hate is spreading but it's not on such a large scale the media wants you to think it is. Who's fault is it that we are hated? Don't blame muslims for your own actions, President Bush called for the invasion of a stable sovereign nation, IRAQ. Yes it is an invasion, not a liberation, IRAQ today is in far worst shape than it was under Saddam's rule. Think for yourselves make your own conclusion. Your worst enemy is right now is your leadership, The leadership of the Bush administration and the power that holds them. Stay out of the middleast's business and they wont touch you, you can't go around policing the world, noone will ever respect you. America is at a stalemate at the moment and the media is pulling out everything they can to spread nationalism and hatred for the muslims of the middleeast.

[edit on 29-11-2006 by unconscious_war]

Oh yes, right....Islamic hatred of the western world started after we invaded Iraq. I forgot...It really is that simple.

Originally posted by iskander
Great, how about a movie going in in depth into all American white supremacy groups, their huge training compounds, drug trafficking, etc, and then call for destruction of entire USA?

How does that sound?
[edit on 25-11-2006 by iskander]

Doesn't sound like anything this thread was talking about. At least not what I started it to express. No one called for the destruction of any country or any nation. In fact, if anything it has pointed out that these Islamic extremists are groups of people that transend borders and countries. You cannot isolate religious belief or extremism to an entire country. On the contrary, there are many within these countries who are afraid to speak out against this behavior for fear of death. This isn't solved by destroying a country. Having said that, there are countries that harbour and hold a large amount of these extremists, but in now way would I ever recommend destroying all for the misguidance of many.

Oh yes, right....Islamic hatred of the western world started after we invaded Iraq. I forgot...It really is that simple.

How far do you want to go back? How about Lawrence of Arabia?

There's a good movie about that one, not to mention the book, and his personal memoirs describing in detail how the British government lied to and sold the Arabs out.

Keep trying, the whole just keeps deeper and deeper.

Doesn't sound like anything this thread was talking about.

On the contrary, we're talking about terrorism and extremism. For that we don't have to look farther then our own back yard. Remember Timothy McVeigh?

That's called "domestic terrorism", and instead of once again terrifying people with the whole Muslim terrorist cliche, why don't they show our own, home grown domestic terrorist groups, living right in our own back yards?

Simple, because Muslim extremism is a useful propaganda tool, and domestic terrorism is not.

Classic, transparent, wartime propaganda, and I'm surprised that at this point there are people out there that actually still buy it, even after Bush him self clearly stated that the very reason for his invasion was non existent.

What such people are hanging on to I have no idea.

I could be wrong Iskander, as I often am, but I don't recall the white supremacists calling for death to all Americans. I don't recall seeing their bigotry and hatred displayed on our public tv channels. I do not agree with any religious extremism that uses violence as a way of spreading their message, including white supremacists, but they do not compare with what we are facing abroad. I cannot argue with you on the importance of preventing home grown terrorism like that of Timothy McVeigh and all others involved.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
This video fails to show the other side of the argument, such as what is the cause of this fundamentalism

No kidding...

WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF THIS FUNDAMENTALISM?

What could possibly be the cause of fundamentalism?

What is so blasphemous about western culture that would lead a would-be Holy Warrior to strike out violently against it? To raise an underground army in the spirit of Jihad...

Hrmmm...

Lets just pick a place to start...
Dupont (that one elicits all kinds of warm an fuzzy Holy Warrior feelings),
Monsanto, Conagra, Microsoft, or could it be Haliburton?
Well maybe it was the depleted uranium, white phosphorus, or cluster bombs...
Or the swirling plastic in the pacific and the oil spills that support western consumer culture... 'externalities' they say.

Maybe they just don't like their magazines, television, books, and radio coming from the same company...
Or maybe they don't like relationships starting in bars and tripping over sex before learning last names.

Maybe it was the UN creating the racist State of "wannabe-but-not-really-so-Jewish" Israel a place where Jew and Muslim once lived for centuries in harmony as Palestine. We all did note the Orthodox Jews at Ahmadinejad's party calling for a peaceful dismantling fo the state last week right?

Maybe they're just trying out the weapons that western society created.

Maybe its Walmart or Family Dollar that has their panties in a wod... maybe they get some fuzzy Holy Warrior vibe wandering through the plastic managerie.
Maybe its the huge asphalt parking lot full of SUV's around every Christian Church; a place where trees once stood and squirrels ran through The Garden.
Oops... wasn't supposed to go there... Maybe they don't want our Meth problem or maybe they don't want our divorce rate becoming global pop culture.
Maybe they think something freaky might happen if we keep exploring nanotech... or maybe they didn't want the oil under their land brought to the surface in the first place.
Maybe they don't want theirs, ours, yours, mine, or any of THE HOLY WATER flouridated and chlorinated.

Maybe they see us as a virus; a bad apple spoiling the bunch.

MAYBE THEY DECIDED TO GET FUNDEMANTAL ON US

because we've got it coming...

Maybe... its not islamofacists at all...

Maybe its angels... And all that the west has come to stand for is the demon.

Maybe its God.

Maybe I deserve it,

Sri Oracle

Its pretty simple what the cause is.

We bought there Oil, Sold them our Technology, Provided Aid and Charity ,Kindly ushered them out of the Dark ages but alas they bit the Hand that Feeds them because of Greed and religous Fascism!

The Crusades basically came to a halt when the West entered the Renaissance, The ME became no longer worth the effort .....

Each day that passes brings the Oil age closer to an end, will this again make the ME no longer worth the effort ?

Originally posted by MRGERBIK
That's not racist,amigo. It's truth and the sad thing is you don't realize Radical Fundamentalism is building in christianity just as it is in Islam. And it's because of people who fuel hatred for anyone who doesn't believe their propaganda.

If Pat Robertson was Venezulan and said we have to take out Bush, he would be referred to as a terrorist. Im sorry to shatter the mirage. But Pat Robertson
got away with it because he was caucasian and wealthy.

Look at the U.S. Prisons, see who most of the political prisoners are in today. See who is treated as a enemy combatant and who can say whatever they want from they nationally syndicated Television program "700 Club"

Does anyone have that clip of "jesus camp" where they want their children to be martyrs. It's creeping fundamentalism no doubt about it. And we can look the other way as much as we want to, the problem is the heartbeat of fascism is strong in America. We arrested Veteran for godsake for wearing "Veterans against the war" shirt.

Ok, I'll weigh in on several thoughts over this thread, living in OKC I can tell you as much as you want to know about the OKC bombing.

1st, as far as I remember, NEVER was there any tie to Tim McVeigh and radical Christianity. He WAS tied into the milita, anti NWO, and several other type groups. If I remember I don't think his family had much history of religion either, but I could be wrong. Either way, he there was little, if any claim that he was a "Christian Terrorist".

2nd, There has been a lot of comparing on this thread of radical Islam to Evangelical Christianity. That's grasping at straws at best, as away to spew your own dislike of Christianity. Even the more fundamentalist Christian denomination and sects don't come close.

While there has been the occasional abortion clinic bombing or shooting, those are individuals or extremley small groups, not large organized groups (like Hamas, Al-Queida, etc.). Not to mentioned they are prosecuted and imprisoned, and normally the whole of the mainstreme (and even more fundamentalist) denominations and their leaders stand up and condemn these actions and not Christian.

Even "Jesus Camp" (which even as a Evangelical Christian I think is a bit out there) is nowhere near the stuff going on in the Islamic Madrasa schools all over Central Asia and other Islamic states. Sometimes some Christians my use terminology like, "dying for Christ" or "martyered for Christ". These are used in a spiratual, not literal sense that someone outside of Christianity COULD confuse with Islamic teachings. HOWEVER, no where are Christians being trained to strap on suicide belts and blow people up, hate different religions, "convert or die" tactics, etc.. They just like to get fired up to "go tell people about Jeeeezuuussss!!!!"

Pat Robinson and the like get alot of press because they pull in just enough money to have their TV shows on the "religous" tv channels, but are marginalized and dismissed by MOST American Christians, other then their own followers. In addition, I have seen most of their quotes taken as far out of contest as can be to make them seem more "extreme" and then are usually compared directly with muslims.

However; as pointed out, there is very little outcry against extremism, terror etc. Where are the moderate muslims???????

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 17/12/2006 by Mirthful Me]

A couple of other things just popped in my head.

You don't see Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and others of the like out trying to obtain nuclear weapons on their own so they can "wipe out the infidels". This is pretty unique to our Islamic Extremist types.

Nor has there ever been any sort of reformation in Islam as there has been in Christianity. While the basic tennants of Christianity haven't changed, the Church, the way it operates, the way it views certain (usually non critical or lesser interpretation on certain, less critical scriptures) has evolved and changed over time, Islam has not done this. They are still living in the 6th century by and large.

In this thread I've often seen the typical catch phrase of "it's all about the Americans taking the oil!!!".

On this I have two things to say. First, that oil was PURCHASED, not stolen. Why do you think the mid east countries are so darn rich!! It's not our fault (well ok, we have had some BAD policy) that the rulers haven't "spread the wealth", or spent it all own private toys and lots of weapons (to kill Jews with by the way in their 3 invasion attempts).

More importantly, many of the oil policy problems in the middle east are due to BRITISH, NOT American bumbling. Most of the borders in the mideast came out of the British Empire. Much of the oil dealings in the middle east come out of BRITISH petroleum countries. American oil companies didn't get involved heavily till the late 60's and into the 70's. British oil interests go back to at least pre WWII.

Oh, Iseral was placed where it was because that's were it has always been, prior to the Romans throwing the Isrealites out in 70 AD. It changed hands many times over the past 2000 years, but was generally left as an abandon area by most of the Arabs, until it became Isreal again in 1948. THEN it suddenly became their "3rd holiest site".