John Lear. Genuine?

John Lear has been nothing less than a courteous person, replying to all that send questions and comments his way in a very civil manner. How many of us would fire back with vengence the way some here have treated him?

People may disagree with each other on facts and beliefs but there is no reason to to go after the man personally. He wades into the shark infested waters here with a bleeding cut and still manages to stay civil. We could all learn a little bit from that.

*steps off soapbox*

Originally posted by Access Denied

Well, regardless of what really happened between you two, you have to admit none of this is good PR for the subject of UFOs.

I'm not sure how you think it applys to the subject but thanks for bringing it to our attention. Its always nice to have another perspective particularly if its derogatory. Makes the thread all the more interesting!

I believe that John believes everything that he is saying is true and is not intentionally trying to hoax anyone. I agree that he always curtious and willing to verify his identity. He gets a from me as an overall nice guy.

www.youtube.com...
Rrrrrrrrowl!!!! Everyone loves a good ole cat-fight!

There are times when I post things that require you, the reader, to trust that what I write is true.

Not all of our beliefs, or experiences can be verified and documented, to satisfy every critic.

If Mr. Lear chooses to come to this board and participate, then I will give him the same respect that I would any other member that is willing to spend their time to inform and entertain the rest of us.

With celebrity comes a larger amount of scrutiny though.

Still such scrutiny should be conducted with common courtesy and a maturity that, while it might question some of his statements, it doesn't attack or insult the man personally.

Sadly in many similar situations people resort to attacking the man instead of the belief. I expect people to question my beliefs , but I do not expect them to attack me in order to prove their point.

Let the man have his say. If anyone can prove or disprove his points then do it.

Otherwise.....

Leave the "third grade attitude" at the door.

For those that question if John was in the military.

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by GlassRunner
Is it possible that the "men in black" wear shades because they are aliens with verticaly slanted, reptile like eyes?

I have temporarily forgotten who those guys are.

From John's questions thread

Its obvious that John cannot talk about "the men in black". From what John wrote in his questions thread, its robably because the military informed him of MIB directly. The top secret infomation John has disclosed was probably given by people retired from the military (if i recall correctly). He's the real deal

Originally posted by Access Denied

Thanks for doing your part to spread disinformation. It's because of people like you this subject will never be taken seriously.

(but of course nobody's going to stop you... after all it's a free country... so press on!)

More I know people more I'm liking to love animals...

Originally posted by Access Denied
Thanks for doing your part to spread disinformation. It's because of people like you this subject will never be taken seriously.

Oh woah, your statement isnt even original! You could have rewritten it to sound more specific to Mr Leah than some generic response to peoples ideas that arnt the norm.

And what proof do you have that he is spreading disinformation? Just the contents of his beliefs is all, and that is weak.

Im glad I have been educated by Lear, whether its truth or not

I'd never heard of John Lear before ATS. However, I can now understand how in some circles, he has a faint whiff of celebrity. Is this what prompts the outbreak of drama? After all, many many people post their own beliefs on ATS, without having another thread started in their wake questioning their right to. I see not one instance of him claiming what he writes to be the absolute truth, rather just what he believes. Whats wrong with a guy sharing his belief system [BS]?

It all comes down to peoples beliefs in the end, what one person thinks is true another doesn't. Saying that, i personaly think that to say that mars has 600 million inhabitants
on it, or saturn is a sprawling metropolis teaming with life, or there is a soul catcher on the moon, im sorry but you can't make outrageous statments like that on a website like
this and not provide any proof. Asking people just to believe what they say is a cop
out in my opinion because you then don't have to provide any evidence.

If a new member came here saying the things that john lear does, they would
immediately be asked for proof/evidence, and when none is forthcoming they would get shown the door.

What john lear says may well be true, and lets be honest we will never find out either way. To me, all that he says is what all ufo/aliens believers want to hear. Myself included, but there is a nagging doubt because he will always have the upper hand on
this subject cos we have only got to take his word for it. Any question you could
ask him you will receive an answer that you have no idea wether its true or not, being
that the question itself is so outthere.

Originally posted by Implosion
I'd never heard of John Lear before ATS. However, I can now understand how in some circles, he has a faint whiff of celebrity. Is this what prompts the outbreak of drama? After all, many many people post their own beliefs on ATS, without having another thread started in their wake questioning their right to. I see not one instance of him claiming what he writes to be the absolute truth, rather just what he believes. Whats wrong with a guy sharing his belief system [BS]?

But theres the rub implosion, he gets accepted without question. No one else gets
that level of free speech here. If i said the things john does would you believe me?
I bet you wouldnt, but if i was a minor celeb there seems to be different rules.

I know he doesn't force his views on us and thats good. But he still deserves
the highest levels of scrutiny like any other member making those claims does.

I hope you dont mind of i spell this out for everyone john...
You already know what i think

The reason for this thread, and all the questions to John is that, LIKE ANYBODY in the UFO and "three lettered government agencies" fields, there are always questions of legitimacy and truthfulness...

Disinformation is always out there...
and I am sure that John agrees... Its hard to know whos word to trust...

Personally, I feel that there are certain things we can learn from John, whether he is "trustworthy or not" so regardless I think we ALL should appreciate his input on the board...

But as for me... I have no reason to think that he isn't trying to be as upfront as he can be...(per security clearance terms of course)

Thanks Again John...

All of you who are implying John Lear gets "special privileges" are absolutely WRONG.

If a Member or as in this case, Members ask you about certain subjects you would have the EXACT SAME freedom to express your beliefs that John Lear has.

John has been answering members queries NOT starting threads. The apparent envy and lack of social grace shown here by some of you is truly sad.

Springer...

[edit on 8-24-2006 by Springer]

If Mr. Lear is on the up and up, he is having the last laugh at everyone's expense, because he is simply putting out the truth as he believes it to be. If, on the other hand, Mr. Lear is a con-man, he is having the last laugh at everyone's expense, because you are buying the truth as you believe that he believes it to be.

Follow the money is a good rule of thumb. What does Mr. Lear receive in return for being here? Honorariums for lectures? More advertising for all his books, videos and t-shirts with pictures of aliens on them? More members of his secret UFO investigative Society?

If Mr. Lear is half as bad as the accusatory link makes him out to be, then I suspect he would not be doing something here unless it were garnering him profit over there.

Rule of thumb the second, always take the truth with a grain of salt. I find it true that tomatoes are poisonous. A littler further investigation might find the limitation of my truth ... I'm allergic to tomatoes.

So, simply because Mr. Lear might, or might not, be telling the truth, it behooves each of us to take what he says and continue investigating on our own.

Someday, we will have the irrefutable smoking gun. Until then, depending on what you want to think Mr. Lear is a good guy, and a bad guy.

Yes, John Leaer is ginuine!

Genuine in his beliefs of what is taking place in space, on other planets and on or beneath this earth.

That is a lot more than most people can say about themselves or even another person....

Question answered...

Thanks for your time and sharing "information" with us JL.


jeez whats next... is elevatedone really elevated....

[edit on 24-8-2006 by elevatedone]

Originally posted by Access Denied

Also, among other things, he says Bob Lazar told him "Lear is actually carving your name on his bullets. What did you do to make him so obsessed?"… nice guy huh?

This is the kind of distortion that is in the affidavit. Had Lars bothered to ask me I would have told him it was only one bullet and it was his just his initials not his whole name. And I didn't 'carve' them I put them on with a black marker pen.

Originally posted by Access Denied
Did you even bother to read the material at the links in my earlier post? Don't take my word for it, take it from one of John Lear's friends...

(John himself said this affidavit was half true, question is which half?)

Yep, I read it.

That makes absolutely no sense to me but whatever. Should I be happy for you?

Sure you can! *feels the love*

I meant that despite whether it is truth, I have been educated. OK, remember school? I was educated then too, Im grateful for that despite half of it being utter nonesense. I hope Ive made sense now.

Yeah right, it's OK to attack the message but the not the messenger... the hypocrisy here never ceases to amaze me.

I hope you havnt seen my post as an attack on you, it wasnt. Ive heard that meme so many times used for so many people, "It's because of people like you this subject will never be taken seriously." I have to say, the UFO subject will not be taken seriously as the world stands, regardless of Leah and what he says.

Originally posted by Springer
All of you who are implying John Lear gets "special privileges" are absolutely WRONG.

If a Member or as in this case, Members ask you about certain subjects you would have the EXACT SAME freedom to express your beliefs that John Lear has.

John has been answering members queries NOT starting threads. The apparent envy and lack of social grace shown here by some of you is truly sad.

Springer...

[edit on 8-24-2006 by Springer]

Im sorry but i really have to disagree. John lear gets treated like a celeb, most people here seem to be in awe of him just because he flew some planes for a living.

Of course he deserves the same respect as any other member that goes without saying and i will (on my part) up hold that view.

He has his own Q&A thread talking about things that may well be untrue, he might just have a great imagination. Im not too bad at making things up myself, but i bet you a dollar i wouldnt be able to have my own one, especially if i couldnt back up my claims.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
...i bet you a dollar i wouldnt be able to have my own one, especially if i couldnt back up my claims.

Welcome to skunkworks where you can put forth your wackiest theories. Speculation is welcome there and I myself use it for that very purpose.

Where's my dollar?

Just to stay on topic, though...I admire John Lear for being as forthcoming with his personal beliefs as he has been in the 'ask John Lear' thread. I doubt many of us would be as willing to answer most questions to us as he does there.

Unquestioning Skepticism

Originally posted by thesneakiod
But theres the rub implosion, he gets accepted without question.

Really? By who? I see a lot of questions -- and accusations -- just in this thread, and that's hardly all of them.

I consider myself something of a fan of John Lear, but there's no way in hell I would take everything he says as undeniable fact.

I mean damn, just look at the nature of the claims themselves -- not to mention the wild times he's had and the circles he's traveled in. Nobody who's rubbed elbows with Bill Cooper could come away from that unscathed.

John has made something of a career of "going where the wild goose goes", and when you do that, it's natural that you're going to have some wild stories to tell.

And like anyone else -- in fact, probably much more than anyone else -- John has been exposed to lie after lie, disinformation gimmick after disinformation gimmick, for decades.

So in a very real sense, when it comes to separating fact from fiction, he's in the same boat as the rest of us.

The Pampered Elite?

Originally posted by thesneakiod
No one else gets that level of free speech here. If i said the things john does would you believe me?
I bet you wouldnt, but if i was a minor celeb there seems to be different rules.

John Lear has no more nor less a level of "free speech" than anyone else does around here.

He's chosen to be a member like you or me, and is subject to the T&C like anyone else. There are no different rules for John.

And again, there's definitely no shortage of skepticism about John's claims on ATS.

Could the perception he's somehow "protected" stem from the fact that we don't tolerate personal attacks on him? If so, let's bear in mind that we don't tolerate personal attacks on any ATS member, including you and me.

Just because that includes John doesn't mean he gets special treatment.

The Highest Levels Of Scrutiny

Originally posted by thesneakiod
I know he doesn't force his views on us and thats good. But he still deserves
the highest levels of scrutiny like any other member making those claims does.

Absolutely! What would ATS be without skepticism? There are much better places for people to hang out on if they want to believe everything they read.

For what it's worth, I think the fact that Mr. Lear chooses to hang out on ATS now and then speaks volumes about him as a person. If he wanted to, there's no doubt in my mind he could hold forth on a "fan site", have admirers gush over him, ban skeptics or naysayers and sign virtual autographs all day in an environment free from troublesome questions.

Instead, he's willing to come here and face the music as a "regular" ATS member, to the tune of over 750 posts to date. I think that says a lot.

Does that mean I believe everything John says? Hell no! :shk:

But I do very much respect him as both a person and an ATSer, and to the extent we can all offer one another a basic degree of mutual respect, we can ask the man himself about pretty much anything we want.

Sounds good to me.

Kindred Spirits

For those who may not be aware, I know quite well what it's like to attract skepticism. I know for a fact that I reported my experiences honestly in this thread, for example.

Yet I also know that it sounds crazy as hell -- and fabricated. But I did report what happened to me the way I experienced it, and as accurately as my literary skills allow. And it's not the only weird thing that's happened in my life by a longshot.

Does that mean it's all true? No, not necessarily in the sense of objective, universal truth. But it did happen to me, and in my mind and life experience, it's definitely true.

Likewise, John can honestly report what he's experienced and what he's been told, but that doesn't mean it's all true. He's fallible like anyone else, and has been bombarded with disinformation like anyone else. And like anyone else, he'll do his best to make sense of it, but that doesn't mean he has god-like powers of discernment and knows all there is to know.

He doesn't use as many "weasel words" as I do, but that doesn't mean he's lying. As I have learned, no amount of disclaimers and disqualifiers will keep people from accusing you of lying even when you're being honest.

What Is Truth?

As for telling the truth, only those who actually know the truth can tell it, and as best I can tell, we're all being deceived at some level or another -- or more likely, all levels.

Weird things do happen to people, and we talk about them here. If we shouted down members just because their experiences don't correlate with our own world views, ATS would cease to exist.

Many of us are here because we realize that there are cracks in the facade of "official truth" and "consensus reality". We realize that maybe things are not always what they seem.

But we can't see if we don't look.

People need a place where they can talk about the bizarre and unknown without facing ridicule and personal attacks, and ATS is that place.

Sorry for the (habitually) long diatribe, but I've been wanting to get this off my chest for a while.

Your Mileage May Vary, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with questioning what any member says, and no one here is required to believe anything.

Remember, even though I've had some wild experiences of my own, I'm a skeptic too.