Anton LaVey & The Church of Satan

So, you ask what good and evil have to do with Satan?






If you don't find the info to be useful, then why not just skip over it instead of being a smart-ass?

If you don't agree with it, then why not at least offer us a philosophical refutation?


The post was only meant for those who might benefit from the teaching in relation to their view of "Satan"("evil") and dogma("good").

It was obviously not meant for fanatical closed-minded "Christians"(considering that the latter would not care to consider it; that is, unless by reading such a teaching they might open their eyes a little, instead of relying on the all-too-proven to be useless and even harmful blind-"faith")




[edit on 10-10-2006 by Tamahu]

Hi, Tamahu good to see you back.

Biblically Satan was said to wander around like a lion waiting to devour mankind. Not an exact quote but you get the idea.

This makes me think that it isn't a good thing Satan wishes to do. In light of that I can't think why someone wants to hold such a being in high esteem, and it doesn't fit with Crowley's and LaVey's motto of "Do what thy wilt be the whole of the Law" Instead it says to me he wants to eat us up. That is an aggressive move, not simply to live life in the moment as the "Satanist" propose.

Originally posted by interestedalways
Hi, Tamahu good to see you back.

Biblically Satan was said to wander around like a lion waiting to devour mankind. Not an exact quote but you get the idea.

This makes me think that it isn't a good thing Satan wishes to do. In light of that I can't think why someone wants to hold such a being in high esteem, and it doesn't fit with Crowley's and LaVey's motto of "Do what thy wilt be the whole of the Law" Instead it says to me he wants to eat us up.

The Sixth Day of Genesis


...Only by means of the activity of Prometheus-Lucifer and the rigorous psychological discipline can the Man in the image and after the likeness of the Elohim sprout forth out from the initiate.








Now there was a day when the Beni Elohim (Children of God) came to present themselves before Jehovah, and Satan (Lucifer) came also among them. - JOB 1:6


Kristus-Lucifer a part of our Inner Being is the educator or mentor of the Compassionate Buddhas who walk on the middle path. Lucifer –Prometheus (one of the parts of Christ mingled with the Ego of the Initiate) suffers the unspeakable when he becomes chained to the hard rock of Yesod.


And Jehovah said unto Satan (Lucifer), Whence comest thou? Then Satan (Lucifer) answered Jehovah, and said, From going to and fro in the (Ninth Sphere ‘Yesod’ of the) earth (the Physical Body), and from walking up (into heavens) and down in it (Klipoth). - JOB 1:7


Temptation is necessary, because without the martyrdom of the cross the virtues of the soul do not blossom.

The Verb (the Christ) is made flesh in us in order to convert us into Children of God.


And he that overcome, and keep my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

And I will give him the morning star (Venus-Lucifer). - Revelation 2: 26-28


And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus (after having taken the Path of Renunciation) came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan (in order to receive the morning star Venus Lucifer).

And straightway coming up out of the water (of Yesod), he saw the heavens opened, and the (Holy) Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

And immediately the Spirit (Lucifer) drives him into the wilderness.

And he was there in the wilderness forty days (40 is the Kabbalistic value of Mem, that is Kabbalah symbolizes Water), tempted of Satan (Lucifer); and was with the wild beasts (egos); and the angels ministered unto him. - Mark 1: 9-13





So Jesus overcame, and kept his psychological works until the end, thus he received power over the nations and he ruled them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter, their beliefs were broken to shivers because of the Wisdom that he received from his Inner Father.

Venus-Lucifer, one of the parts of Christ incarnated within the Human Being who walks on the Direct Path, is who bears the sword and the scale of Cosmic Justice, because to him is undoubtedly committed the norm of the weight and measure and number. He is Horus, Brahma, the Ahura-Mazda etc., always ineffable, who controls our individual Karma under the command of our own Innermost God.


And Jehovah said unto Satan (Lucifer), Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan (Lucifer) went forth from the presence of Jehovah. - JOB 1:12


Lucifer (luci = light, fer = fire) is the Cherub or Guardian of the Door of Eden, the abode of the Man of the Sixth Day. Kristus-Lucifer alone is entrusted with the keys of the doors of the nine heavens that no one enter therein, save the annointed ones by Peter (willpower) who have the secret of Hermes (the Emerald Tablet)...

That is an aggressive move, not simply to live life in the moment as the "Satanist" propose.

The Gnostic, or Thelemic teaching is to live, or BE in the moment, but according to the Will of the Being.

The Satanist or inverted-Thelemic teaching is to live for the moment, but according to the will of the ego(Satan).





Regards

Originally posted by Tamahu
If you don't find the info to be useful, then why not just skip over it instead of being a smart-ass?

Can we skip the name calling? It does nothing for your case.

Originally posted by Tamahu
If you don't agree with it, then why not at least offer us a philosophical refutation?

It doesn't have anything to do with anything topical, why refute it?

Originally posted by Tamahu
The post was only meant for those who might benefit from the teaching in relation to their view of "Satan"("evil") and dogma("good").

I don't see where you've established any connection between dogma and good. Posting a bunch of questions about something unrelated doesn't make much sense. You need to "fill in the blanks" at the very least. If I wanted to read someone else's book, I can go to a library (or internet reference guides) instead of waiting for your posts. Would you mind if I solely posted Bible verses? I can do that if you'd like.

Originally posted by Tamahu
It was obviously not meant for fanatical closed-minded "Christians"

More name calling eh? When you're through with the deconstructive criticisms perhaps we could have a progressive conversation sometime.

Originally posted by Tamahu
(considering that the latter would not care to consider it; that is, unless by reading such a teaching they might open their eyes a little, instead of relying on the all-too-proven to be useless and even harmful blind-"faith")

Interesting that you this faith is blind without knowing what it is based on. Very judgemental of you.


[edit on 11-10-2006 by saint4God]

Well whatever.

I'm not going to take the time to carry on fruitless arguement.

Originally posted by saint4God
Would you mind if I solely posted Bible verses? I can do that if you'd like.

Go ahead.

If it's relevant to the topic, then by all means.


And If you have any specific questions about my post in question, regarding good and evil and how it relates to dogma and Satan, then I'll be happy to answer if I have time to.


Or we could discuss Bible quotes in relation to the topic at hand(which would be Satan and the doctrine of Satanism, which would include the Bible and good and evil; as no common person would know of the Hebrew "Satan" were it not for the publically availible Hebrew-Biblical doctrine).









[edit on 11-10-2006 by Tamahu]

And about this:

Originally posted by saint4God
Interesting that you this faith is blind without knowing what it is based on. Very judgemental of you.

Judgemental or not, the words you type in these forums consistently make your blind-faith apparently self-evident.

But I don't know you at all, so perhaps for some specific reason, the words you type don't reflect what is really within your mind and/or heart.





Regards









[edit on 11-10-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu
Go ahead.

If it's relevant to the topic, then by all means.

I thank you for this permissioned liberty, however I know through experience here on ATS it is not the most effective form of communication, though more accurate than anything I could ever write.

Originally posted by Tamahu
And If you have any specific questions about my post in question, regarding good and evil and how it relates to dogma and Satan, then I'll be happy to answer if I have time to.

Thanks. How does your book quote have anything to do with the the Church of Satan?

Originally posted by Tamahu
Or we could discuss Bible quotes in relation to the topic at hand(which would be Satan and the doctrine of Satanism, which would include the Bible and good and evil; as no common person would know of the Hebrew "Satan" were it not for the publically availible Hebrew-Biblical doctrine).

Perhaps, perhaps not, it is speculation.

Originally posted by Tamahu
Judgemental or not,

You see nothing wrong with being judgemental/the judge?

Originally posted by Tamahu
the words you type in these forums consistently make your blind-faith apparently self-evident.

That is for neither of us to decide. You're trying to represent people you don't even know.

Originally posted by Tamahu
But I don't know you at all, so perhaps for some specific reason, the words you type don't reflect what is really within your mind and/or heart.

They do, I don't have "filters" nor need them.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
LaVey did most things for "shock" value. It is doubtful that he bought into real "devil" worship. He did most of it, at least from the information I have gathered, as a joke of sorts.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

I tend to agree with you concerning this...from what I have heard growing up from peoplee involved in the occult.

It appears that he took the Christian version of Satan, as the Jewish concept of Satan is a bit different (interesting in that Christianity is a direct root from Judaism, anyway...)
it looks as if he took the Christian Satan and created his own little club of sorts (religion)

Stuff like crowley, etc. is totally different than Anton Lavey...

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by dAlen
It appears that he took the Christian version of Satan,

I'm not sure I see the connection. It makes sense for a Theistic Satanist to conform also with the Christian viewpoint of Satan, but don't see (from what I've read) how LaVey's "satan" which appears only in name form as related to Satan according to Christianity.

Originally posted by dAlen
as the Jewish concept of Satan is a bit different

I can see some parallel between Orthodox Jewish thought and LaVeyan "satan" as both being conceptual from what I've heard from both.

Originally posted by dAlen
(interesting in that Christianity is a direct root from Judaism, anyway...)

Not rooted, but Christianity IS Judaism under a new covenant. This explains what is meant by "Messianic Judaism".

Originally posted by dAlen
it looks as if he took the Christian Satan and created his own little club of sorts (religion)

If he did, he dimished the description of what Satan to a mere idea and to the extent that to a Christian, such as myself, Satan would be nearly unrecognizable had they not had any previous encounters with him.

These statements are made in the search for clarification and understanding.


[edit on 12-10-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
I'm not sure I see the connection.

Im not sure you will see the connetion of anything I say...typically it appears that my communication style does not fit with that of yours making any dialouge futile.

For the time being, I will put you on my ignore list.
Only because the couple of threads I have seen you in recently, seem to go way off topic and are overly pushing your agenda of how you believe the Bible, etc.

The only thing I can say about that is that people make choices, your God gives people a free choice, to even choose hell if they want. Point is say what you have to say in regards to the subject, and leave it.

Again, I wont see your reply to this, so useless to respond, though Im sure you will anyway.
(unless it makes my post invisible to you)

Just to say, it has nothing to do with your last post to me...just got tired of seeing the trend of over pushing your belief system without listening to others.

Peace

Dalen

[edit on 12-10-2006 by dAlen]

Originally posted by dAlen
Im not sure you will see the connetion of anything I say...

A bit of a hopeless approach, don't you think?

Originally posted by dAlen
typically it appears that my communication style does not fit with that of yours making any dialouge futile.

You're not able to reposition to help sync up the differences in our communication style? Hardly seems fair as I'm willing to explain or reposition what I say.

Originally posted by dAlen
For the time being, I will put you on my ignore list.

That is your right to do so.

Originally posted by dAlen
Only because the couple of threads I have seen you in recently, seem to go way off topic and are overly pushing your agenda of how you believe the Bible, etc.

Ever notice how most threads I'm on are discussing the Bible/God/Christ? I'm sure there's reason for that. On the threads that don't, I don't unless asked. For example, the NY apartment building being run into by a plane. No mention of God or the Bible there. Why? Because it is off-topic. If I'm off-topic, point it out and I'll show how it relates.

Originally posted by dAlen
The only thing I can say about that is that people make choices, your God gives people a free choice, to even choose hell if they want. Point is say what you have to say in regards to the subject, and leave it.

You're responding to me, I'm responding to you. That is how dialogue/discussion works.

Originally posted by dAlen
Again, I wont see your reply to this, so useless to respond, though Im sure you will anyway.

It is not useless just because you cannot see it oh hopeless one.

Originally posted by dAlen
(unless it makes my post invisible to you)

Nope, I can see it and have not put anyone on ignore.

Originally posted by dAlen
Just to say, it has nothing to do with your last post to me...just got tired of seeing the trend of over pushing your belief system without listening to others.

Surely an insult to mods for not booting me for "being off-topic" all the time and preaching my beliefs without listening or regard for others.

I had some legitimate questions that are topical if anyone would like to answer them. I'm interested in hearing the responses and have learned a good bit so far.

Originally posted by saint4God
Thanks. How does your book quote have anything to do with the the Church of Satan?

I said a specific question.

What good and evil have to do with Satanism is self-evident.

Originally posted by saint4God
You see nothing wrong with being judgemental/the judge?

I implied that it is irrelevant.

And an observation is not necessarily the same thing as a "judgement".

But if my "judgement" was out of place then I'll reap what I've sown.

That is for neither of us to decide. You're trying to represent people you don't even know.

I'm not representing anybody.

I'm simply observing that your posts are often times dogmatic.

And that's fine.

But just don't expect one to not debate with what you've posted when you put forth certain things(such as certain literal interpretations of Biblical scripture); and then turn around and say that such a one is judging you just because they don't agree.


However, I must admit that, I just realized that I have at times somewhat confused you with another ATS/BTS member, who's name I won't mention, who's posts are generally more fanatical and dogmatic than yours; and I apologize.





[edit on 12-10-2006 by Tamahu]

Just for the record:

Originally posted by Majic
But when I see a picture of the Dalai Lama -- whom I'm pleased to have met and admire tremendously, I should point out -- in a thread about Satanism, I know something's amiss.

So I'm just asking that we focus on Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan in this thread, and don't want anyone to take that the wrong way. :shk:

Someone asked a question in relation to an arguement against the doctrine of Satanism, and I utilized some info from H.H. The Dalai Lama in order to help illustrate said arguement.

With all due respect, I don't see what is amiss.






[edit on 12-10-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu
The post was only meant for those who might benefit from the teaching in relation to their view of "Satan"("evil") and dogma("good").[edit on 10-10-2006 by Tamahu]

This is interesting, and kind of points to an ealier post of mine, when agreeing with another poster that Anton lavey basically took the Satan out of Christianity and used it to create his own little "club" which stands out since its in direct opposition to the opposite. Duality feeds nicely and he accomplised what he needed to.

Going into the Occult or even into Judaism, Satan isnt the dude with a pitchfork that is evil.
Satan is actually the helper of God. NOt only that but many occult text seem to imply satan being us. There are a lot of different helpful views of satan outside of Anton Lavey and Christianity.
Its as if the former hellps the latter by giving some credence to the newer teaching of Satan.

Now that is a conspiracy after all...Anton LaVey helping the Christian doctrine evolve past it Jewish roots.

Peace

Dalen

Seems to me that the "philosophies" that LeVey eapouses doesn't really follow into the "concept" of Satan...I'd forgotten where I'd read it, but wasn't Satan's real sin the fact that he loved Man more than he loved God? LeVey's philosophies don't sound much along that line of thought.

Even though Ann Rice wrote "Memnoch the Devil" as a work of fiction, I could tell (from my own researches on Religion) that she really did her homework well. But what's amazing in my mind is that I have such a hard time telling the difference between where her legitimate research leaves off & her logically-conclusive imagination begins. A real thought-provoking book on the whole subject of God, the Devil & the whole tree of Religions that sprung up from the original "root belief."

Originally posted by Tamahu
But if my "judgement" was out of place then I'll reap what I've sown.

I appreciate that you're willing to take responsibility for your actions, though it doesn't make it justifiable.

Originally posted by Tamahu
I'm not representing anybody.

Then I'll amend that statement to be not "self-evident" but rather "as it appears to you" since we all have our own brains to decide what is and is not evident.

Originally posted by Tamahu
I'm simply observing that your posts are often times dogmatic.

Which would only make sense if I had been born into or raised in a church...which I have not.

Originally posted by Tamahu
And that's fine.

But just don't expect one to not debate with what you've posted when you put forth certain things(such as certain literal interpretations of Biblical scripture); and then turn around and say that such a one is judging you just because they don't agree.

Have I told everyone that I've disagreed that they're judging me? If not, your statement is false. Do the work and see that I have not. It's not even a lot of work, you can take merely this thread as a sample.

Originally posted by Tamahu
However, I must admit that, I just realized that I have at times somewhat confused you with another ATS/BTS member, who's name I won't mention, who's posts are generally more fanatical and dogmatic than yours; and I apologize.

No worries about confusing people, that certainly happens. However, I don't see any "fanaticism" nor "dogmatic" viewpoints, rather is petty namecalling that's irrelevant to the discussion. In fact, nothing you'd made mention of here is topic-related. As a result, neither are my responses.

Originally posted by dAlen
Going into the Occult or even into Judaism, Satan isnt the dude with a pitchfork that is evil.

I can testify that Satan did not have a pitchfork nor was a dude. I can attest though that he is evil, and that some occults will verify such. From what I understand though, probably not the CoS.

Originally posted by dAlen
Satan is actually the helper of God. NOt only that but many occult text seem to imply satan being us. There are a lot of different helpful views of satan outside of Anton Lavey and Christianity.
Its as if the former hellps the latter by giving some credence to the newer teaching of Satan.

Now that is a conspiracy after all...Anton LaVey helping the Christian doctrine evolve past it Jewish roots.

Please illustrate how.

Originally posted by dAlen
Going into the Occult or even into Judaism, Satan isnt the dude with a pitchfork that is evil.

I can testify that Satan did not have a pitchfork nor was a dude. I can attest though that he is evil, and that some occults will verify such. From what I understand though, probably not the CoS.

Originally posted by dAlen
Satan is actually the helper of God. NOt only that but many occult text seem to imply satan being us. There are a lot of different helpful views of satan outside of Anton Lavey and Christianity.
Its as if the former hellps the latter by giving some credence to the newer teaching of Satan.

Now that is a conspiracy after all...Anton LaVey helping the Christian doctrine evolve past it Jewish roots.

Please illustrate how.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Seems to me that the "philosophies" that LeVey eapouses doesn't really follow into the "concept" of Satan...I'd forgotten where I'd read it, but wasn't Satan's real sin the fact that he loved Man more than he loved God? LeVey's philosophies don't sound much along that line of thought.

This is a good question. I know from Theistic Satanism that this is the viewpoint.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Even though Ann Rice wrote "Memnoch the Devil" as a work of fiction, I could tell (from my own researches on Religion) that she really did her homework well. But what's amazing in my mind is that I have such a hard time telling the difference between where her legitimate research leaves off & her logically-conclusive imagination begins. A real thought-provoking book on the whole subject of God, the Devil & the whole tree of Religions that sprung up from the original "root belief."

I haven't read that book but have seemed to find many fiction authors well-researched in the basis for their works. For example, I don't know of one who would discount that the author of "Spawn" did not know quite a bit about Theistic Satanic ideologies. Do you think Ann Rice's book would lean more towards Theistic Satanism or LeVay's version? and how so?