Universal Genetics

Lets assume for a minute that the accounts of the Greys are entirely true. They are smaller than us but share certain physical traits like bipedalism and symmetry. On Earth people argue for evolution based on the fact that many life forms on earth share similar characteristics. My dog has two eyes, a nose, a mouth, four limbs, etc. So if an alien species also shares these same Earthly characteristics is seems like only a few conclusions can be drawn. In no particular order...

(1) Aliens created us and this is why we share the genetic/physical traits
(2) Aliens did not create us, but we share a common universal ancestor which is unknown to us, possibly them
(3) An intelligent designer created life to follow similar patterns
(4) Traits like bipedalism, which were positively selected here, are prevelant throughout the universe regardless of genetic association because they free up limbs, etc.
(5) The aliens are actually us in the future or past

These were the first five thoughts that jumped out at me. Trait selection could be a huge factor in this. It seems like for any life to advance itself enough to leave it's planet or contact others it needs some form of conscious reasoning and the ability to store memories (among many others.) There is obviously a lot of life that doesn't have these abilities but I'm only concerned with intelligence levels equal to or greater than ours. I think it would be incredibly interesting to see a map or layout of a universal genetic tree. Obviously not something we can do anytime soon but the way life forms on Earth is incredibly fascinating. I can't even imagine what different environments have produced. If anyone has any thoughts on this I would love to hear it.

If greys as described exist, its actually pretty amazing if they are Extreterrestrials as opposed to humans from the future. Becuase, there's really no reason why life shoudl take up an essentially human form. The human form is the result of a long long evolutionary history.

Vertebrae, segmented bodies, 'cephalization', even just the pressence of bones, none of it is 'necessary' in evolution, it 'just happened'. So Greys imply a very very similar overall history of evolution on their planet, which is just plain odd.

It was thought that if the dinosaurs were still around the raptor would have became a dominent species on the planet, effectivley makeing them like us. Given enough time of course. So If this is correct there are tons of diffrent intelligent species out there in space. I think that "intelligence" is not specific to the human form. It just happened that this is what it looks like now. But there is nothing to say that raptors couldnt operate vehicles and develop a government, again given enough time.

I also do think that there was a hand at creating all life, especially us, we became intelligent way to fast. The hand was probably an alien species. I also beleive that we are an experiment to see how fast we could become intelligent. Its obviously failed, i think if our creators would have let nature take its course over millions of years, the bad traits we still obtain from being wild would have disipated (hate, war, greed...). But "they" interfered, tis the reason the world sucks as it does.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by imbalanced]

It's the jump in evolution from being highly developed to sentinent which puzzles me.

When does one know they exist?

Good question,
That is a matter of perspective.
Some monkeys can recognize themselves in a mirror.
Others look at the mirror and see another monkey.
I think there are levels of self conciosness. We are
higher then monkeys but it probably goes way beyond
this. Being more concious obviously makes a race more
advanced.

Yeah, this is one of those interesting topics where it is tough to lay the ground work, but it would be profoundly important.

Assuming greys exist as described by encounters, there is another possibility:

Convergent Evolution

It is possible that symmetry, limbs, vision, smell, taste, bipedalism, and brain are somehow a natural point of evolutionary advantage. A sort of long, slow slope on the topological map of biological advantage.

This could take place even if we share nothing in common with the genetic processes of another lifeform, so long as basic units of genetics follow similar evolutionary processes through their functional relationships with the resulting biological patterns. In other words, aliens might not even have DNA. They might have to have a similar genetic vocabulary. Then again, they might not.

Originally posted by imbalanced
i think if our creators would have let nature take its course over millions of years, the bad traits we still obtain from being wild would have disipated (hate, war, greed...). But "they" interfered, tis the reason the world sucks as it does.

Cedargrove I think you need to add a few more options to your theory although they are good thoughts. I don't think that aliens planted dogs, cats, FISH, ect...
but I do think we may have been "tweaked" so to say as Imbalanced mentioned.

I do think we were planted here. A main reason being is why, if we evolved over all these years are the chimps so behind? And why were the chimps spared from war raging neighbors?

Of course it could' be that maybe aliens or a universal divine god did in fact create EVERYTHING on the planet, even all the fish in the sea.. or maybe a few and they evolved from that perhaps.

Earlier today I asked eudaimonia WHY would aliens create all these things on Earth and replied, "Perhaps Earth is a zoo to them." I think this could be possible. Who knows how far advanced into genetics they are.

Don't forget too, "God created man in his image." according to the bible. Maybe the aliens have two eyes and their world is similar to ours with everything having two eyes (except those dirty bugs, let evolution take care of them).

Originally posted by cedargrove
Lets assume for a minute that the accounts of the Greys are entirely true. They are smaller than us but share certain physical traits like bipedalism and symmetry. On Earth people argue for evolution based on the fact that many life forms on earth share similar characteristics. My dog has two eyes, a nose, a mouth, four limbs, etc. So if an alien species also shares these same Earthly characteristics is seems like only a few conclusions can be drawn. In no particular order...

(1) Aliens created us and this is why we share the genetic/physical traits
(2) Aliens did not create us, but we share a common universal ancestor which is unknown to us, possibly them
(3) An intelligent designer created life to follow similar patterns
(4) Traits like bipedalism, which were positively selected here, are prevelant throughout the universe regardless of genetic association because they free up limbs, etc.
(5) The aliens are actually us in the future or past

These were the first five thoughts that jumped out at me...If anyone has any thoughts on this I would love to hear it.

My research has pointed to the Annunaki were not Greys but probably Zetan-Reptilian. (The Greys appear to be a genetically engineered race that came about later). Technically, the Annunaki did not create humans; what they did was mix their DNA with the already evolving hominids here in order to come up with a slave race to work the mines. That race, which they genetically altered dozens of times, came to be known as Homo sapiens.

To genetically breed something is not quite the same thing as creating it with projected thought (that is amplified by The Light). The Annunaki/Zetans were not and are not gods, only humanoids who are highly intelligent and advanced in physically based technology.

The evidence also appears to be lacking that the Zetan-aliens are time travelers or that they represent our "future selves." Some would like to think so because they find that notion appealing - while others do not.

I for one have no intention of donning a four foot (or six foot) tall Grey body - or that of a Preying Mantis, Reptilian or Hybrid - in any future incarnation.

It guess it all depends on what you want.

"Perhaps Earth is a zoo to them."

I believe this too. But I think that we are the only experiments, it seems.....
from what i have learned that we are the only odd thing on this planet that
sorta dosnt fit.

For us to have become what we are so quickly makes it
impossible in a mathematical sense to be here. Its like winning the
lottery 5 times in a row while getting struck by lighting at the same time.



[edit on 16-6-2006 by imbalanced]

"Perhaps Earth is a zoo to them."

I agree also that this is their perspective.

Which goes along with the idea of "harvesting."

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
what they did was mix their DNA with the already evolving hominids here in order to come up with a slave race to work the mines.

I don't know about a lot of what you posted honestly but I do agree that a race may have mixed our DNA with already evolving hominids here...

and then you go on ...in order to come up with a slave race to work the mines.
That IDK about either, dont you think if they're so advanced they would use machines to mine?

Originally posted by Techsnow
I don't know about a lot of what you posted honestly but I do agree that a race may have mixed our DNA with already evolving hominids here...
and then you go on ...in order to come up with a slave race to work the mines.

That IDK about either, dont you think if they're so advanced they would use machines to mine?

I would assume the same had I not researched it.

The point about the Annunaki using slaves as opposed to robots comes from the archeological findings of Zecharia Sitchin. Purportedly, the Annunaki simply found it more economical to use Homo sapiens as slaves.

Let's do some logical analysis and extrapolation...

If the Annunaki (probably Zetan-Reptilians) found it better to use living organisms as slaves instead of robots, it makes sense that their Zetan descendents would genetically breed their own worker race - the Greys - to act as a go-between from them to us.

The Greys are the most commonly reported alien by abductees.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by imbalanced
It was thought that if the dinosaurs were still around the raptor would have became a dominent species on the planet, effectivley makeing them like us. Given enough time of course.

I think it is a function of not only intelligence, but physical attributes. The reason man has survived and evolved to be the dominant species is party due to the simple thumb. It allows us to grasp and manipulate tools, etc.

No doubt the fierce raptor would have been dangerous, but as man created weapons and learned how to use them, it spelled doom for the raptors.

Originally posted by Nygdan
If greys as described exist, its actually pretty amazing if they are Extreterrestrials as opposed to humans from the future. Becuase, there's really no reason why life shoudl take up an essentially human form. The human form is the result of a long long evolutionary history.

Nygdan, correct me if im wrong but ,some charastics such as flight have evolved in mammals, lizards and birds seperatly? What about the eye? hasnt that evolved 4 different times in four different evolutionary pathways(eg human eyes vs octopus eyes)from scratch ?

If this is so I dont see the problem with traits such as bipedalism or large brains arising elsewhere, enlighten me if I'm missing something.

Just to throw out another item on the table for this discussion.

According to physicist and engineer, Bob Lazar, from governmental briefing documents he saw while working at S4: the Zetan-aliens have genetically altered humans - or rather Homo sapiens - OVER SIXTY TIMES. He says either 63 or 65 times in this enlightening DVD.

Originally posted by imbalanced
It was thought that if the dinosaurs were still around the raptor would have became a dominent species on the planet,

This was called the 'dinosauroid', but it was more of a faniciful idea than anything else. Birds, for example, tend to have larger brains than other dinosaurs, but didn't evolve into any such thing.

I think that "intelligence" is not specific to the human form. [/quiote]
I agree. Intelligence, of a variety of types, need not necessarily be specific to a humanoid form, BUT, the existence of a humanoid form, which is a bizzare accident of history, would be strange, I think.

Convergent Evolution

Convergent evolution arises in different organisms from having a roughly similar genetic background and having to respond to the same conditions, so we have sharks, dolphins, and icthyosaurs all assuming the same general shape.

BUT, consider that vertebrates don't even need to exist. On another planet, some other set of phyla could've risen to domminance.

merkeva
some charastics such as flight have evolved in mammals, lizards and birds seperatly?

Indeed, and all have modified their forelimbs and hands in order to do this, this is because they are working off the same 'base'.

hasnt that evolved 4 different times in four different evolutionary pathways

Indeed.

If this is so I dont see the problem with traits such as bipedalism or large brains arising elsewhere,

Its not so much that there'd be a problem with them occuring, but rather, what woudl enable them to occur?

On earth, the vertebrates came to dominate the oceans, and of them, the tetrapods/amniotes came to dominate the land.

But on another planet, there might not be anything even like a vertebrate. There might not even by encephalization previous to that, (where the sense organs cluster around a single body segement, forewith called the 'head'). Or everything might have Radial symmetry, like starfish and echinoderms. Large organisms might not even have 'segemented' bodies like us either, or their segements might be radically different.

Consider that, in the Cambrian Explosion, there were many radically different phyla from today, and perhaps a small number of representatives of the remote ancestor of the vertebrates. The others died, and not necessarily because they were inferior. What if something like this had come to dominance instead:
hoopermuseum.earthsci.carleton.ca...
Or these things
www.nature.com...
or these guys
tolweb.org...

Imagine the weird and utterly alien things that could've come to dominance, just from taking the phyla in the cambrian explosion and picking alternate ones.
And those are just complex metazoans! There's even more weirdness before that! Crawling fungi, or animals with weird 'alternation of generations' like in plants, plants that act like animals, and a whole host of other bizzare things.

The chances of having even a roughly similar process on another planet seem so small that it'd require explanation, imo.

If this is so I dont see the problem with traits such as bipedalism or large brains arising elsewhere

Just imagine organisms that don't have any bounded organs, let along segments of their body dedicated to 'walking' on land, or cell types that conduct electro-chemical signals, let alone having those cells form a complex knot in a particular segment.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

According to physicist and engineer, Bob Lazar, from governmental briefing documents he saw while working at S4: the Zetan-aliens have genetically altered humans - or rather Homo sapiens - OVER SIXTY TIMES. He says either 63 or 65 times in this enlightening DVD.

In what ways were we changed? I was thinking about something like this the other day. At what point do we no longer call ourselves homo sapiens? What shift in our evolution will prompt a new homo superior or something? It seems like it would have to be something mental. I don't see a need for any further physical advancement, then again I'm not running the show.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

According to physicist and engineer, Bob Lazar, from governmental briefing documents he saw while working at S4: the Zetan-aliens have genetically altered humans - or rather Homo sapiens - OVER SIXTY TIMES. He says either 63 or 65 times in this enlightening DVD.

Originally posted by cedargrove
In what ways were we changed? I was thinking about something like this the other day. At what point do we no longer call ourselves homo sapiens?

I am not aware of all the changes that were made. The archeological findings of Zecharia Sitchin point to the Annunaki having had problems with their genetic manipulation of the already evolving hominids here. When the first Homo sapiens emerged, they could not reproduce. Further genetic experimentation eventually amended this defect in Terran DNA.

An additional logical and possible DNA tweaking may have been made in the area of the immune system. If the first Homo sapiens could not reproduce, they probably also had a weak immune system.

Originally posted by cedargrove
What shift in our evolution will prompt a new homo superior or something? It seems like it would have to be something mental. I don't see a need for any further physical advancement, then again I'm not running the show.

There are many physical upgradings that could be made. Just eradicating major congenital defects would be a major improvement to the basic human condition.

Originally posted by cedargrove
What shift in our evolution will prompt a new homo superior or something?

Current science is already exploring the possibility of genetic engineering, just as the Annunaki did hundreds of thousands of years ago.

But there is also the spiritual component which will play a major role in this. Many of you know exactly what I am referring to.