Powers of the Holy Ghost

Is there really a way to achieve powers in healing and phrophecy through meditation, prayer, fasting, or in depth bible study?

I have seen so many different things in many different churches and worship services. Speaking in tounges always scared me as a kid, still it makes no sense to me, in reality i just reason that all connections with GOD are in our minds.

I know all things can be done through Jesus, and so if using the name of Jesus power can be obtained. I dont know if that is like superman power or spiritual power. Alot of this can be deep but so much i want to find out.

Here is one site of healings and prayer >www.execonn.com...<

I just wonder to sometimes do you ahve to be a Billy Graham or anyone to be able to use the power of Christ and it work.

Originally posted by promytheus
Is there really a way to achieve powers in healing and phrophecy through meditation, prayer, fasting, or in depth bible study?

I have seen so many different things in many different churches and worship services. Speaking in tounges always scared me as a kid, still it makes no sense to me, in reality i just reason that all connections with GOD are in our minds.

I know all things can be done through Jesus, and so if using the name of Jesus power can be obtained. I dont know if that is like superman power or spiritual power.

I am LDS more commonly known as a mormon but I know that you can be healed through the preisthoood, holy ghost, faith and stuff but I don't think it is a power to be harnessed and used like superpowers. I believe that God will heal you if you ask in faith, providing it is his will you heal. Sometimes we fall ill to be humbled and believe in order to be healed.

Originally posted by promytheus
I know all things can be done through Jesus, and so if using the name of Jesus power can be obtained. I dont know if that is like superman power or spiritual power. Alot of this can be deep but so much i want to find out.

Of course, if you've read Luke, you know that Jesus derived a lot of his more powerful healing and exorcism powers by conjuring the demon, Be'elzebub, which got him into a whole lot of trouble later on. Not so much from the demon, itself, but from the local authorities. If you want to mess with that stuff, that's fine, although the Bible makes a pretty strong point of telling you to avoid it. But, hey, you can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs, right?

What I would do is start small, using a simple spirit board - even a OUIJA board will work - to learn how to deal with common spirits and minor demons first. Then once you get a handle on those puppies, then you can work yourself up to manipulating stronger spirits and other demons.

One of the first things you want to work on is gathering protective spells, talismans and incantations. Kind of like making sure you have a life jacket ready when boating. Demons are tricky and patient, and will wait until you've made a rookie mistake to mess you up. Then you'll have to find an even more experienced conjurer to help you out.

Anyway, the kind of thing you're talking about doesn't happen overnight, and can take years of practice. So it's a good idea to weigh the value you might get from it against the work you have to put into it, as well as the potential risk.



[edit on 6-7-2006 by Enkidu]

Wow, Enkidu Blashpemy of the Holy Spirt is an unforgiveable sin. However it seems you already know that, and our in close alliance with these things already. Hope your ready to suffer the consciquence... (honestly makes me sad)


The Pharisees and sadducees claimed that Jesus Christ's Miracles were from Be'elzebub or that he was in league with this spirit. Which is more of a point about society as a whole, it wasnt an completley unbearable news to hear of a resurection in those days. (this is what they said when Jesus rose Lazarus from the dead) Today this would completley be written off as a hoax...(by most)

Just from the fact that you stated Jesus used demonic powers to perform miracels means youve already stated your belief in the existince of such things. So who do you believe created these beings????



PROMYTHEUS: I think you might be thinking about the idea of miracles/healing a little differently then described in the bible. It isnt us "achieving powers " it is the Holy Spirit acting in us. Holy Spirit is doing God's (being triune) work through us only. He hasnt always picked what we would call the most faithful to do his work. (Saul/Paul, Moses (a murderer), Jacob (a liar)) all to do his will.

However the name of Jesus is above all even the demons give respect to the name and will flee from those who acknowledge him as KING. (not always, depends on what GOd wants to do i guess LOL)


I hope that was what you were looking for Promytheus if not just resatate the question and I'll try my best to give what i believe to be the Bible's answer to the subject/what my lifes taught me. Which by the way has never contridcited....

Originally posted by promytheus
Is there really a way to achieve powers in healing and phrophecy through meditation, prayer, fasting, or in depth bible study?

Actually, yes.

Love God
Love your brother/neighbor
Love Truth
SERVICE toward those ends

Hint: the 'self' isn't left out--but the ego is. Loving those things is the same as loving your soul. But your ego is not to be fed.

I just wonder to sometimes do you have to be a Billy Graham or anyone to be able to use the power of Christ and it work.

That's the longest, most convoluted route--as far as being a 'Billy Graham.' That's ego work, not agape work.

But in the long run, no man can lay hold on something that isn't his. God has distributed things in precisely the fashion He wishes them to play out. What does any of us have that hasn't been given to us?

If we steal a treasure, it won't endure--and it leaves more poverty than it removes.
If we are given a gift, it will never be taken away.

'Blasphemy' of the 'Holy Spirit'

IS

'scorn for' or 'the act of despising' the 'pure truth'

Nothing more, nothing less...

The tragic thing is--so many do this very thing all the time--and many do it in the 'name of God' or using the title of Christ as their own title (christian).

Enkidu speaks a lot of pure truth on ATS--I've read many posts, this one included.

King Solomon--the wisest man in the world--knew how to harness the demons.

'Beelzebub' is translated as the 'Lord of Babel.' Who built the tower of Babel? Nimrod. Nebuchadnezzar followed later on--same family.

Who was told their hands would finish God's temple--because their hands had started it? Zerubabbel.

Zerubabbel--a name combined from 'zerah' (star) and 'babel' (confusion).

Christ knew exactly who all of these were--the Lord of Babel, Nimrod, and Zerubabbel. He was greater than all these, no doubt--but that only means that all power on earth and heaven were truly His, as He said. That power means over both 'good' and 'evil.'

A house divided cannot stand.
If all things come into one, and the ONE is God--then were does the devil go? If the devil was a star that fell---just like Eve fell from grace, too---then why can't both be restored?

Inheritances, estates lost and then found....the prodigal son....the owner of the vineyard is the Father of all the heirs...and the rest are workers or tenants.

Matthew 12:22-32 reads:

"Then there was brought to Him a demon-possessed man who was blind and dumb, and He healed him, so that the dumb man spoke and saw. 23And all the multitudes were amazed, and began to say, "This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?" 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebub the ruler of the demons." 25And knowing their thoughts He said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself shall not stand. 26"And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? 27"And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? Consequently they shall be your judges. 28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29"Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come,"

Now when you first read through this it looks as if blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is saying that Jesus did His miracles by the power of the devil. And simply that thats unforgiveable, to understand this you need to look back at what Jesus was doing at that time. Jesus was to be the sacrafice of the world, the one who would bridge the gap for us from sure death to eternal damnation. When Jesus was baptized he was baptized in the holy spirit, it was after he was baptizied that he began the ministry and signs and wonders. This was to fulfill the OT prophecies that Jesus was indeed a Prophet a Priest and a King.

Now when the Pharasees saw what Jesus was doing and gave credit to demonic forces they were questioning his MESSIAHSHIP. They new that his works were crediting his words and that is found in John11:45. So when they accused Jesus of using the power of Satan in his ministry instead of the HOLY SPIRIT it becomes aparant why thats blasphemy.

As far as many blaspheming the spirit..."My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand." A christian does not commit this offense, no longer slaves to the old nature and they have been regenerated. Blasphemy- Exactly what Enkidu says mirrors that of the Pharasees. I have also been reading here for 4+ years and know that much of what you say and enkidu says is truthfull. So dont get me wrong but Enkidu by saying Christ used demons in his testimony to this earth is BLASPHEMY. period.

Blasphemy (from the Hebrew, where it originated, biblically speaking):

H5007
נאצה נאצה
ne'âtsâh ne'âtsâh
neh-aw-tsaw', neh-aw-tsaw'
From H5006; scorn: - blasphemy.

H5006
נאץ
nâ'ats
naw-ats'
A primitive root; to scorn; or (Ecc_12:5) by interchange for H5132, to bloom: - abhor, (give occasion to) blaspheme, contemn, despise, flourish, X great, provoke.

H5132
נוּץ
nûts
noots
A primitive root; properly to flash; hence, to blossom (from the brilliancy of color); also, to fly away (from the quickness of motion): - flee away, bud (forth).

This from Strong's.

I don't understand blasphemy only from the point of that passage in Matthew--I have studied the word, itself, in both the OT and NT. Context is crucial--but not as far as understanding one word and what it means in the bible. That requires a 'word study.'

The passage in Matthew isn't saying what you think it says--mainly, perhaps, because you are assigning a definition to blasphemy that is yours, but not necessarily the same as what the writers meant when they used it.

If one scorns the truth--that seems to be the doom. How can one unite with the Spirit--which is both truth and love--when one scorns or abhors the truth?

Many scorn the truth in favor of their own ideas--those ideas are more comforting than the truth, oftentimes.

But 'evil' as something outside and apart of God is not 'truth,' according to Isaiah:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(Isaiah 45:7)

'Demons' may be 'evil' but they do not lie...unless God puts a lying spirit in them. Men, however, having free will and ego, lie all the time--to themselves and to each other. Even when we are geniunely trusting ourselves and think we are being honest with others, if we are lying to ourselves then we are, by extension, lying to others.

On the journey---if the path is always smooth--then it is just a dream--if it is always rocky, it is a nightmare. BUT if it is, by turns, sometimes smooth and sometimes rocky, and sometimes somewhere in between; and if there is an occasional pit to fall into, and a friendly soul coming along at some point to lend a hand to life you out--well, then you know you are truly traveling.

As far as me assigning my own defenition to Blasphemy, no mine fits right in with the Hebrew defeniton. I too have studied both the OT and NT in their respective languages, and even done an extensive sudy on what exactly Christ meant by UNFORGIVEABLE sins. Its clearly evendent here how naw-ats' is used in the passage I gave they were scorning, despising that which was pure and calling it evil.

this is from the Christina Apologetics Research Ministry.... Pretty much i spent last 10 mins typing out almost the exact same thing...just poorly written. Read what the defenition of the word evil (rah) in the KJV is translated too...

Is God really the one who created evil? To answer the question we must first look at how the word for evil "rah" is used in the Bible, examine the context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same subject.
First of all, the Hebrew word for evil "rah" is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible, it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked", "bad", "hurt", "harm", "ill", "sorrow", "mischief", "displeased", "adversity", "affliction", "trouble", "calamity", "grievous", "misery", and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV;
Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.

"I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." (Isaiah 45:5-7).

Notice that the context of the verse is dealing with who God is, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,

"And the Lord said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11).
"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6).
From the above two verses we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.
Of course, this raises other questions of why God would do such a thing, which I won't cover here. But, we can trust that whatever God does is just and is used for teaching, guiding, and disciplining His people.
Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil.

“The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He," (Deut. 32:4).
"Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor," (Hab. 1:13).
We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually, the verse is speaking calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster, of calamity.

It seems to me that we are interperting this passage of scripture differently then one another no problem. :how

Originally posted by Scyman
As far as me assigning my own defenition to Blasphemy, no mine fits right in with the Hebrew defeniton.
(..)
It seems to me that we are interperting this passage of scripture differently then one another no problem. :how

I know you took a lot of time on that post--which is good, because many people will read it--it's good and useful information.

But I'm aware of all that--as you apparently are. I don't think it is the root of our difference--not that it is a problem, like you say.

I think it is just a matter of unity vs. division--inner, that is--not the worldly sort.

Unity starts at 'home.'