NSA is keeping logs of phones calls in the US

Congress will help.

www.cnn.com...

The government has abruptly ended an inquiry into the warrantless eavesdropping program because the National Security Agency refused to grant Justice Department lawyers security clearance.

Oh, right. (this was from the other thread, there are two to do with this)

Originally posted by signs
Every American wants to be safe from terrorists and yet some don't want their government empowered to keep them safe. Anyone for ping-pong?

Somebody said those who trade liberty for safety deserve neither. I think it was Ben Franklin.

Originally posted by signs
This cracks me up! Yeah, like as if the NSA has nothing better to do than listen to a bunch of phone calls where lips are flapping in breezes like diapers on clothes' lines.

Every American wants to be safe from terrorists and yet some don't want their government empowered to keep them safe. Anyone for ping-pong?

[edit on 11-5-2006 by signs]

Yes we want to be safe but who doesn't..if it wasn't for our government sticking its nose everywhere but America and trying to bully other nations to act the way American government thinks they should act we wouldn't need to worry about being safe..I can think of nowhere on this planet you can go and be safe no matter how hard you try..
But keeping track of who American citizens call is not making us safe it is not bringing any terrorist to justice,atleast I haven't heard of it doing this..This to me is nothing more than tryin to keep tabs on us to see if we are fed up enough to bring hell down on them.

For those who continue to label this activity as a Republican-only proclivity, just remember the name James McDermott. The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

From AT&T's (formerly SBC) Privacy Policy;

Customer Proprietary Network Information (CPNI) is information SBC obtains when it provides services to you through your local SBC telephone company.....
---------------------------------------------------
Examples of CPNI include:

* Number and type of lines
* Class of service
* Current charges
* Long distance billing record (where available)
* Local service - for example, subscriptions to custom calling services (e.g., Caller ID)
* Directory assistance charges
* Bill summary - where, when and who you call
-----------------------------------------------------
Your local SBC telephone company may also be required to disclose CPNI for legal and regulatory reasons such as a court order, to investigate fraud or other unlawful uses of communications services.
------------------------------------------------------
We must disclose information, when requested, to comply with court orders or subpoenas.

Looks pretty specific that they would need a court order, subpoena, or some other court instrument before disclosing this information.

You can read it here. I might have missed the part where it says "we'll cough up your stuff to the first government agency that comes in here and scares the jeebees out of us".

I almost forgot this...can't we all go and buy long-distance service from Qwest?


[edit on 11-5-2006 by MrPenny]

Originally posted by jsobecky
For those who continue to label this activity as a Republican-only proclivity...

So, "Democrats do it, too"! is your position on all this?

Never mind that nowhere in this thread has anyone even mentioned Republicans or Democrats (until you did, of course). Whenever we stoop to making this a Democrat vs Republican issue, we all lose. Thanks for bringing this down to a political party disagreement. :shk:

Thanks, MrPenny for that link. Very interesting.

Calling all lawyers, time for class action suit against Verizon, AT&T and all the others who invaded all their customers privacy without their consent. I will personally donate 5k to the first major law firm who takes the case.

Originally posted by signs

Every American wants to be safe from terrorists and yet some don't want their government empowered to keep them safe. Anyone for ping-pong?

[edit on 11-5-2006 by signs]

Actually no, I don't want to be safe.
I want to be free.

Unfortunately, the past and current administations have stolen that choice from me.

And you.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jsobecky
For those who continue to label this activity as a Republican-only proclivity...

So, "Democrats do it, too"! is your position on all this?

Never mind that nowhere in this thread has anyone even mentioned Republicans or Democrats (until you did, of course). Whenever we stoop to making this a Democrat vs Republican issue, we all lose. Thanks for bringing this down to a political party disagreement. :shk:

Oh, really, BH?

This is not surprising to me. We knew it was happening, just hadn't been reported in major news media. And I wonder how long people can support an administration that does this to its people...

I wonder who said that in this very thread?

Stop tryin' to be so pious and holier-than-thou.

from Nygdan
The NSA has been collecting logs of phone calls in the US. The measure is normally prevented by law.

Telephone companies do this every day as part of their business requirements. So I guess thay must all be breaking the law.

Companies sell all sorts of information about customers to one another, every day. This information is used to solicit business from potential customers.

What's the difference?

Originally posted by valkeryie
Already posted here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is a different illegal mass public surveillance program.

ImplementofWar
Bush just denied on TV that the government mined or trolled for information on Americans.

When? Today? Wow. He's got big brass ones. This programme is a data mining programme, so is the Narus operation.

She said something like

Amazing how much editorializing is done on a supposed news program eh?

Yes I just sat through his entire speech

Waitaminute, he's made a speech on this already? It just got broken today. They must've been expecting people to but up in arms. They knew that they were wrong.
Does that mean that they have plants at USA Today, who informed them that such a story was being worked on? Perhaps that would explain it if he said 'we don't datamine'. Because the speech was prepared before the article was released and perhaps without them knowing just how much of the programme had been exposed.

signs
like as if the NSA has nothing better to do than listen to a bunch of phone calls where lips are flapping in breezes like diapers on clothes' lines.

Are you suggesting that this is not occuring or what? They aren't listening to the conversations, as stated.

jsobecky
Democrats do the same thing

Yes, exactly. Now think, do you want H. Clinton or Gore in the future to be taking the reigns of this programme? TO use it to smash up pro-gun lobbies and spy on them because they are 'networked' with militias? There's a reason why the Founders focused on controlling government power, because the government allways abuses it.

Also, drop the discussion of BH, and BH, drop the discusison of JSobecky, lets all focus on the facts of the topic, not the personalities of the posters.

People we have no constitution any more. . . is just an antiquity and historical piece of paper.

Our constitution now has a new name and is called the Patriot act.

Under the patriot act now Bush has given the government omnipotent powers over the nations citizens.

The Patriot act rule.

Originally posted by jsobecky

from Nygdan
The NSA has been collecting logs of phone calls in the US. The measure is normally prevented by law.

Telephone companies do this every day as part of their business requirements. So I guess thay must all be breaking the law.

Companies sell all sorts of information about customers to one another, every day. This information is used to solicit business from potential customers.

What's the difference?

WRONG. The FCC did some monitoring always- There has always been monitoring of criminal activity, etc. You arent going to tell us you dont know the difference? Qwest dont want to play. I wonder why??? They say what they are asked to do is highly illegal. I hate their service, but GOOD FOR THEM.
Maybe you should ask them why THEY dont want to play this game, huh?

Yes, telephone companies do it constantly because we implicitly agree to let them do it with the stipulation that our information is kept private and secure.

This same technology, data mining 'social networks', can be used to track the communications of casual pot smokers for instance. Do any of you qualify? What if one of your casual acquaintances becomes somehow interesting to an intelligence agency. Guess what, your phone calls may become subject to eavesdropping.

If this is 'no problem', what's the next step? Travel documents needed to cross state lines? Figuring the 'lines of sight' so you can stay out of the camera's view while you walk around the park?

At some point, the "slippery slope" is going to become "hurtling over the precipice". We must become political activists and make changes at the ballot box.

I don't see why people get so worked up about all this. They've been listening in on a certain amount of conversations for years. It's just that with technology today, they can watch more of us.

There is really nothing to worry about here. So long as you are a good Republican and speak well of the current administration, you will have nothing to worry about. We need this to prevent any uprisings, possible rebellions or even a revolution in this country.....that would be considered terrorism wouldn't it? So.....watch what you say or write, be a good drone and all will be well.

"The government does not listen to domestic phone calls without court approval," said Bush, without confirming the program of the National Security Agency. "We're not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans."

Is this a bald face lie or what? Do we have 10 million members of Al Qaeda in our country?

"It's not one party's government. It's America's government. Those entrusted with great power have a duty to answer to Americans what they are doing," said Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont.
...
On Capitol Hill, several lawmakers expressed incredulity about the program, with some Republicans questioning the rationale and several Democrats railing about a lack of congressional oversight.
Forbes

I imagine the members of Congress realize that the NSA could very well be listening to their provate conversations and reporting back to the president.

If this is the straw that broke the camel's back and pushes Congress to do their job, I am all for it! Something needs to light a fire under these people!

Nygdan to do what the government is doing to us Americans now it was something that has been in the planing for many years.

We have been fattened up, fill with lies and terrorist scare given random feelings that we are still the ones in charge.

Then the real control has been all this time slowing taking over our lives in the name of National Security.

Yes you are right Bush immediately jump into the news cameras to pacified with lies the outraged that will come after the latest attacks to our constitutional rights.

But we have been buttered for years and made soft the loyalist to this government will be in hight gear showing that is all sensationalism, Bush bashing and liberalism.

I am starting to believe that is some misinformation agents at work here, now you can find them in every thread that talks about these new attack to our constitutional rights all hot and ready to stop the truth.

The government have kept us all under surveillance and any riot that can come from this will be tag a terrorist act and deal with as such under the new constitution name the patriot act.

Lets keep to the focus and not speculate about disinformation agents.


Therte are some questions as to the legallity of this practice. Apparently, other organizations have obtained the records from the telecos, but the telecos are suing, claiming that its illegal.

A law from 1934 plainly makes the practice illegal, and there is also a question of just how much spying domestically is legal anyway.

Originally posted by dgtempe Qwest dont want to play. I wonder why??? They say what they are asked to do is highly illegal. I hate their service, but GOOD FOR THEM.
Maybe you should ask them why THEY dont want to play this game, huh?

Funny thing is, Qwest is much more than a phone company. They are a backbone network provider. Just like AT&T, Cogent, etc. A LOT of traffic passes through their routers.

If Qwest is the last holdout, and they fall... Forget the data mining. That would mean there would be systems in place on every backbone of the US (in some ways giving access to most of the world), through which all traffic passes, and each system reporting to and controlled by one central network. Crap...

People, people, people................this "program started in 1997, was challenged all the way to US Supreme Court who ruled to OK..........

The "Pat act 1" also authorized this program............get a grip.

I hate BUSH but not for this.............