Who is at Guantanomo anyway?

derdeb:

In conclusion, take your self-aggrandizing, cowardly policy insults, and whine to someone who really cares.

The American people care, you're just not one of them.

The vast majority of people on the planet care, you're just not one of them.

I am actually in the majority of opinion on this.

If the WORLD was one big democracy, you would not be allowed to do this, because the majority would say no way.


And try not to take things personally when I insult your country's foreign policy. The blood is not on your hands. It's on the architects of the US foreign policy since after WWII.

Ask Henry Kissinger why he can't travel anywhere other than the United States and a handful of "friendly" countries.



jako

Glad to see you speak for so many people............all of whom share your opinion and communicated that fact directly to you. Youy must be a busy man! How do you find the time to post such enlightening and novel pearls of wisdom on this subject!?

(sarcasm/off)

You don't speak for me, bud. Nor do you speak for the vast majority of people, friends, and family I personally know. I can probably could the number of people I know who feel the same way you about these prisoners on one hand (thumb excluded).

Some of us care deeply that these people remain imprisoned until the powers that be feel it is safe to release them. And yes, most of us do trust our government, more or less, on issues of security. That doesn't make us dumb or brainwashed, it makes us differnt from you. And that is something I am very glad to be. The vast majority of folks I know don't give a rats patoot either way about these terrorists. Only the occasional oddball speaks out against it.

And please spare me the lecture on foreign policy, as if Americans in general are ignorant of it history, purpose, and current state of affairs. You might be surprised to find out just how many of us dumb Americans support our quasi-imperialistic foreign policy, because it supports and improves our way of life, and the way of life for our friends who share our values and culture. It may be big and ugly, but it works for us. So stay north, crack a Molsen, flip on the Habs, and mid yer own business. Were doing just fine down here....





[edit on 24-2-2006 by Pyros]

Pyros:

Nor do you speak for the vast majority of people, friends, and family I personally know. I can probably could the number of people I know who feel the same way you about these prisoners on one hand (thumb excluded).

Well then you ought to get out and meet new people. I know a handful of people who SUPPORT what’s going in Gitmo, and I know a lot of Americans.

World public opinion is with me. Why? Because not even most AMERICANS support your idiot President. Why would anyone in the rest of the world do so? Why does he face massive protests whenever he goes anywhere? Even to Britain, your ole buddy ole pal.

Wake up.

And yes, most of us do trust our government, more or less, on issues of security.

LOL. The singlemost common attribute of every single American I know and count as a friend is their DISTRUST of government. It’s what makes Americans great.

That doesn't make us dumb or brainwashed, it makes us differnt from you.

Actually, I think it makes you both.

You might be surprised to find out just how many of us dumb Americans support our quasi-imperialistic foreign policy, because it supports and improves our way of life, and the way of life for our friends who share our values and culture.

And excludes everyone else. Sometimes people don’t like having their country raped and pillaged in order to fatten up the US.

So stay north, crack a Molsen, flip on the Habs, and mid yer own business. Were doing just fine down here....

That’s the funniest thing you’ve written. Your country is “doing just fine”? LOL! I beg to differ. Are you talking economically? Socially? Health-wise? Please explain.

Originally posted by Pyros
You don't speak for me, bud. Nor do you speak for the vast majority of people, friends, and family I personally know. I can probably could the number of people I know who feel the same way you about these prisoners on one hand (thumb excluded).

I disagree. I respect your right to hold a different opinion, but I disagree.

Some of us care deeply that these people remain imprisoned until the powers that be feel it is safe to release them. And yes, most of us do trust our government, more or less, on issues of security. That doesn't make us dumb or brainwashed, it makes us differnt from you. And that is something I am very glad to be. The vast majority of folks I know don't give a rats patoot either way about these terrorists. Only the occasional oddball speaks out against it.

Here's the thing. If these detainees went to trial and were legitimately represented and determined to have ties to terrorism, then I would fully support their detention. The problem is that a large number of them are not linked to terrorism. A large number of them were turned in by bounty hunters with an open ended bounty where no specific person is listed, they just ask for foreign terrorists and unfortunately, the bounty hunters turn in innocent people in some cases. So we need to care about it and pay more attention to the cases rather than just say they're all terrorist scum and deserve to be there. This is America, and prisoners of war or not, everything should be done to determine whether they are innocent or not.

And please spare me the lecture on foreign policy, as if Americans in general are ignorant of it history, purpose, and current state of affairs.

Americans in general are ignorant of most everything that doesn't have to do with sports, Hollywood, or who won the latest crap reality TV show. I'm not saying everyone is, not at all. But a large majority is. Go sit down at a mall someday and listen to people talk. It's a rare occasion that you hear something intelligent. And that an interesting exercise, because it truly shows the current state of human intelligence in the majority of people. I'm sure the same thing is in a number of other countries as well, but I wouldn't know as I don't speak the language of the few other countries I've traveled to in recent years.

You might be surprised to find out just how many of us dumb Americans support our quasi-imperialistic foreign policy, because it supports and improves our way of life, and the way of life for our friends who share our values and culture. It may be big and ugly, but it works for us. So stay north, crack a Molsen, flip on the Habs, and mid yer own business. Were doing just fine down here....

So you endorse supporting ourselves at the detriment of those who disagree with our opinions?

Originally posted by Pyros
You might be surprised to find out just how many of us dumb Americans support our quasi-imperialistic foreign policy, because it supports and improves our way of life, and the way of life for our friends who share our values and culture. It may be big and ugly, but it works for us.

Well Pyros gave an honest reply, which I admire.

As far as the fact that your country is doing fine, well, maybe to those who are deaf and blind to the growing tsunami of international criticism which has been flooding the media for a few years now. I can understand that news containing criticism coming from other countries is not likely to be repeated often in the main stream U.S. media because it is not a popular and patriotic thing to do to make your own country look bad. Especially when that country more and more resembles a police state.

Just to be clear, I´ve visited, lived and worked in the U.S. pre 2001 in the Bay area, Redwood,WA and Lexington, Mass for a long time, but now I wouldn´t go back if my life depended on it. Not for any amount of pay or stock-options, no señor, nooooo way.

I´m grateful for small favours, so, until someone pulls the plug, lets enjoy our freedom of speech right here, on the net.

[edit on 24-2-2006 by HardToGet]

Sadly, we don't know who really is at Guantanamo, because Guantanamo is about as secret as the Gulags.

Wikipedia notes the following:

As of June 2005, the United States was holding about 520 foreign terrorism suspects at the facility, some of whom were captured in Afghanistan. On September 22, 2004 ten prisoners were brought from Afghanistan. A total of 242 detainees have been moved out of Guantanamo as of July 20, 2005, according to the U.S. Department of Defense, Of these 242, 173 have been released, and 69 transferred to the governments of other countries.

On November 12, 2005, the Wall Street Journal reported that as of November 7, 2005, 358 of the 505 detainees then held at Guantánamo Bay had had Administrative Review Board hearings. Of these, 3 percent were granted and awaiting release, the decision was to transfer in 20 percent, the decision was to continue to detain in 37 percent, and there was no decision yet in 40 percent.

The WSJ reports that of the 505 detainees held in Guantánamo, 100 or more are from Saudi Arabia, about 80 are from Yemen, about 65 are from Pakistan and about 50 are from Afghanistan. Two detainees are from Syria.

A report based on data supplied by the Defense Department showed that 86% of the prisoners were handed over by local bounty-hunters rather than as the result any American investigation or collection of intelligence.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

How any American can not find fault with Guanatanamo is beyond me. Purely from a PR perspective, it seems to have done more harm to our efforts to fight terror than to help. To say nothing of the logic behind a prison set up to detain people so long as "terror" exists. Actually, the most sickening thing as far as that goes is that it's not logic at all, and the administration knows it- it's a smokescreen argument rolled out with the knowledge that enough jingoistic fools will buy it for long enough until finding a smarter solution becomes some other administrations' problem. Some day, in the far future, we will look back on Guantanamo with shame, just as we look at Kourematsu today.

Granted, not everyone there is an innocent person, but clearly enough people have been released after being held there for years without trial to make you wonder (see the figures above). Seems like a waste of taxpayer's money, at the very least. At most, an awful stain on our society. Something needs to be done about terrorists, of course, but if the best solution the administration can come up with is Guantanamo bay, then we're in a lot of trouble.

[edit on 24-2-2006 by koji_K]

[edit on 24-2-2006 by koji_K]

Originally posted by skippytjc

Who is at Guantanomo anyway?

You have to ask?


Murderers, terrorists, plotters, deviants, religious radicals, extremists, sadists, racists, anti Semites, enemy combatants, saboteurs, liars, cheats, cutthroats, traitors, political dissidents...

Don't you want them accused of a crime and given a trial, so people would stop saying that innocent people are there? Don't you want proof that there are murderers there, so all of these people saying innocent people are there can be proven wrong?

Has anyone watched this movie:



Click the pic go to it's IMDB page.

Brilliant movie about terrorism and Islamic extremists planning a suicide bombing at New York's Grand Central Station. I'm under the impression that it wasn't advertised widely. I just mentioned it because I think that what's presented in the movie is pertinent to the discussion.