is disease natures or government population control?

First off, I just read the entire Kissinger memo, and not once does it mention KILLING people as popoulation control.

You may have read it Doc, but you didn't understand what you were reading.

edit to toss in this link: killtown.911review.org...

A nice memo from our government regarding the development of AIDS, which was done at Fort Detrik in Maryland.

You need to scroll down to the memo re: the 1970 DoD appropriations bill which was the start of the funding for the U.S. military to engineer AIDS.

The whole site has great information on the AIDS timeline!

[edit on 29-12-2005 by Excitable_Boy]

[edit on 29-12-2005 by Excitable_Boy]

It's interesting that you have to pay $7 to download the flow chart. Doesn't that seem a bit like someone trying to capitolize on someone's fear and paranoia to you? Also, I can't find an documentation other than sites like this one that mention H.B. 15090. Wouldn't foreign news agencies like, oh I don't know, al-Jazeera, al-Arabia, Le Monde, the Russian news, etc, jump on a story that proves America invented AIDs? And why does the "photocopy" of H.B. 15090 have a 1-800 number to call for more "information"? The "photocopy" doesn't even contain any real text other than what is supposed to be the cover of the bill. All the text on the right, as you can read at the top of the image, is an excerpt from a journal written by someone who is supposed to have "a close source" that heard all of this being dicussed. I smell a fib. And finally, do you honestly think the Congress would seriously print a document so incriminating as to prove the invented AIDS? Come on, one second you credit them with being smart enough to engineer an epidemic, the next you think they're stupid enough to leave a paper trail. Give me a break. It must be great to always know the absolute truth. It's such a burden for the rest of us.


EDIT: Also, since you've said I'm "ignoring" questions, here's a list of questions I've asked you that you've ignored that I'd still very much like to hear your answers for:

1)How can HIV be spread through a vaccine when it cannot survive outside living tissue for more than ~48 hours?

2)Where in Kissinger's memo does it imply a disease program? Quote please.

3)Why is Simian Immunodeficieny Virus, prevalent in ape and monkey populations in Africa, strikingly similar to HIV?

4)How do you explain the studies on the 1959 case of HIV?

5)Where is this speech/document you mentioned in one of your "sources" in which former Pres. Clinton apologized for the "genocide"?

6)What documentation shows the delta form 32 CCR5 gene codes for anything relating to race, since only 10% of Europe has it?

7)Why would the government allow the "appropriations" bill to be published?

[edit on 29-12-2005 by bsl4doc]

[edit on 29-12-2005 by bsl4doc]

Text
It is my personal opinion that most diseases today are not from evolution , but from the labs of governments and their partners world wide for money and population control . Its all about politics and propaganda . A means in which to find ugly horrible ways to die , find cures and deliberately not release them to the public . Can you imagine how many adults and children have died just because a government wants population control and market these so called cures that coincidentlly cost more than anyone can afford unless your super rich ,or make the natural ingredients illegal in some countries ( like our own ) but not illegal in others ? Like the poor can really afford to fly to Germany for example , and go through a month or 2 of a curing process , of course they cant, therefore another human dies . I'm waiting for the book I ordered on natural healing from a fellow that claims our U.S. wont allow him to advertise his book because he exposes all these theories of conspiracy and tells how you can cure even some of the nasty diseases , compliments of some governments who knowingly allowed products for human consumption knowing they werent safe and had an adverse affect over a period of time . I believe the majority of it . Why only the majority of it ? , only because anyone else who tried to expose governments for wrong doings ended up dead or missing , and theres alot more we havent heard yet , so , thats why I believe alot of things so far to be true . Remember all those zombie movies and Resident evil movies ? What if there was 1,000's of products , with one particular ingredient, not neccessarily listed under the ingredients lists , tho the government says they have to , that can cause a similar occurance , not the dead rising , but some other form of nasty goings on where the infected population goes absolutely raging nuts having a deadly result ? Oh wait , my bad , we have that now , I withdraw my question . But this is my opinion .... Aids was originally a government progect long before the 80's outbreak , theres anthrax , mad cow disease and so on.... so , who's watching big brother , who wants to make us really sick , so he can make his other big brother , the FDA , even more rich ? Have you seen the commercial where a man says he works for a research company, and how they search for cures studying snow flakes and how one flake can hold the answers to curing some virus' , and how 15 yrs of research is worth any hope in finding cures because virus's change and adpat and become new virus's , sounds like a snow job to me....

1)How can HIV be spread through a vaccine when it cannot survive outside living tissue for more than ~48 hours?

2)Where in Kissinger's memo does it imply a disease program? Quote please.

3)Why is Simian Immunodeficieny Virus, prevalent in ape and monkey populations in Africa, strikingly similar to HIV?

4)How do you explain the studies on the 1959 case of HIV?

5)Where is this speech/document you mentioned in one of your "sources" in which former Pres. Clinton apologized for the "genocide"?

6)What documentation shows the delta form 32 CCR5 gene codes for anything relating to race, since only 10% of Europe has it?

7)Why would the government allow the "appropriations" bill to be published?

1. You tell us doc, you're the expert
2. Read the document
3. Similar, not the same
4. There was no 1959 case of HIV, it turned out to be fraudulant
5. I already provided info on that
6. Ditto
7. Freedom of Information Act

registration to ATS: free
charge to download a flow chart: $7
seeing a med student get a beat down on the web: priceless

ok, ExcitableBoy, you dodged every single one of my questions. You're using circular logic. Unless you want to answer those questions, I'm done with this thread. We can't go on further unless you answer them.

Which is: Medical Issues & Conspiracies » is disease natures or government population control?

Before I have my own priceless moment...

And we all know how poo-alicious that will be.

Now back to our regulary scheduled discussion.

diseases start in big populations because ppl are exposed to eachothers germs that their bodies dont have antibodies to kill. duh. its not a coincidence, its science

That's exactly what I said, with a tad bit less eloquence. But, sometimes being blunt is better, hehe.

back to the post - conspiracy or not , you can not deny the use of scientific means to destroy human life and the human spirit . Remember Hitler ? He had experiments performed to 1) create his idea of the perfect race and 2) to annihilate another . He was the not the first and is deffinatley not the last .

back to the post - conspiracy or not , you can not deny the use of scientific means to destroy human life and the human spirit . Remember Hitler ? He had experiments performed to 1) create his idea of the perfect race and 2) to annihilate another . He was the not the first and is deffinatley not the last

So back to the post is changing the subject? The original post was not about using scientific means to destroy human life. Lethal injection is a scientific means, hanging had some science behind it, etc. The topic is about the government using diseases they have created to control the population, which is absurd.

Ciao,
~MFP

Originally posted by bsl4doc
The topic is about the government using diseases they have created to control the population, which is absurd.

I agree that it's morally and ethically absurd, but don't agree that it wouldn't be done by a faction controlling a government. There are examples in history.

Why do you think it's absurd?

I agree that it's morally and ethically absurd, but don't agree that it wouldn't be done by a faction controlling a government. There are examples in history

Please give a historical example of a government using a genetically modified disease as a form of population control.

Ciao,
~MFP

Hello All

Always been a proponent of the 'Cock-up rather than Conspiracy' theory, and this thread got a few neurones firing.

I remembered reading a good few years ago about the original polio vaccines being cultured on primate cells and SIV getting a foothold for a crossover into the human population as HIV by mass inoculation into African populations.

There's a link here:

www.uow.edu.au...

Something I have to read more on when I get the time.

TD

quote: Originally posted by bsl4doc
The topic is about the government using diseases they have created to control the population, which is absurd.

quote: Originally posted by soficrow
I agree that it's morally and ethically absurd, but don't agree that it wouldn't be done by a faction controlling a government. There are examples in history.

Med student...instead of making a simple statement of your BELIEF that it is "absurd," why don't you back it up with some facts to prove your belief. In your own words: "Cite, Cite, Cite."

Your OPINION is that it is absurd. That is fine. There is plenty of proof, documentation and information available on the depopulation agenda that has been going on since around the Nixon administration and many other nations are involved in that program. You can deny it and learn nothing, or you can at least open your mind to the possibility and read up on it.

When you're green, you're growing. When you're ripe, you're dead!

There is plenty of proof, documentation and information available on the depopulation agenda that has been going on since around the Nixon administration and many other nations are involved in that program. You can deny it and learn nothing, or you can at least open your mind to the possibility and read up on it.

This "evidence" has amounted to nothing more than a few personal web sites with personal agendas and bias and no real concrete eveidence, just "Hey, you know what I heard blah blah blah". And do you honestly think I would be able to find a scholarly work on something the scholarly community sees as asburd?

Ciao,
~MFP

Hi Guys,

I think that this a no-brainer; I would certainly be surprised if our governments were not fooling around with natures deadlier elements in the name of defense and/or attack. I believe this would fall under the auspices of the Military and not the Medical community per se.

Is it not feasible that the US took one look at the 1.2 Billion population of China and thought...what if? Think about how you would defeat that Red Army and a country whose population outnumbers the US by over 900 Million. Hitting the immune systems of such a population would certainly have been looked at, this may have resulted in a release of HIV on African populations as a test case??

Surely this is not beyond the government of the only nation ever to have used nuclear weapons in times of war.

I would argue that population control does exist throughout the world; ethnic cleansing and China's 'one child per couple' law seem to suggest this in a rather obvious and crude way. But, I would have to suggest that the US and UK governments would be more interested in boosting their own population numbers to offset our aging and creaking populace.

Just because we cannot find the answers at our fingertips doesn't mean that the answers are not out there, if it were a case of 'cite, cite, cite' when voicing an opinion there would be no new and intriguing theories. Afterall we don't need proof that WWI & WWII took place, but then again Medical and Law students are always challenged to cite sources, cases etc so I certainly understand to a degree why doc is so fixated with evidence.

IMHO conspiracy sites such as 'abovetopsecret.com' can only exist because of our governments inability to put together any real cohesive and believable explanations to extraordinary events witnessed by everyday people. If we had factual information at our fingertips this would be a very quiet site and a very boring life.

Best Wishes

J

Is it not feasible that the US took one look at the 1.2 Billion population of China and thought...what if? Think about how you would defeat that Red Army and a country whose population outnumbers the US by over 900 Million. Hitting the immune systems of such a population would certainly have been looked at, this may have resulted in a release of HIV on African populations as a test case??

This would be believeable if it weren't for the fact that we do, indeed, live in the 21st century, where any point on the globe is 24 hours or less away from any other point. Viruses and bacteria do not infect based on nationality. If you honestly believe a virus would be able to tell the difference between a Chinese, Korean, Mongolian, Japanese, French, Italian, Briton, or American, you need to refresh your biological repertoire. IF they unleashed a disease anywhere on the globe, it would eventually hit back home. It's not hard to imagine, and we even prepare for instances such as Ebola, SARS, and avian flu coming to American. Now, remind me again why it would be efficient to release a superbug in a population that's 1.5 billion strong, when even just one person could infect the rest of the world??

Ciao,
~MFP

Originally posted by bsl4doc
This would be believeable if it weren't for the fact that we do, indeed, live in the 21st century, where any point on the globe is 24 hours or less away from any other point. Viruses and bacteria do not infect based on nationality. If you honestly believe a virus would be able to tell the difference between a Chinese, Korean, Mongolian, Japanese, French, Italian, Briton, or American, you need to refresh your biological repertoire.

I can confirm that it is in fact the 21st Century and I'm well aware that viruses and bacteria are indiscriminate in their choice of host. But as you are well aware I was talking about HIV/AIDS and what would have been a release in the latter stages of the 20th Century; sometime between the two nuclear detonations on Japenese soil and the arrival of the plague that is AIDS to the shores of the US. Anything was possible in those dark days.

I'm well aware of the consequences of a deliberate act of mass genocide using bacterial agents having a catasrophic effect on a global scale in this day and age, but things were much different during WWII and beyond. All I am saying is that it was feasible for the US military to look at a potentially hostile nation and attempt to attack it from within.

The spread of HIV/AIDS has certainly put all nations on alert as to the dangers of tinkering with viral and bacterial agents, whether raw agents or genetically modified.

As for your medical training; I'm sure you'll make a fantastic consultant in the field of your choosing, but as yet you are but a student at med school and a student within the 'University of Life'. You have much to learn about our political masters and their weird and wonderful ways of protecting our great nations.

Best Wishes

J

I can confirm that it is in fact the 21st Century and I'm well aware that viruses and bacteria are indiscriminate in their choice of host. But as you are well aware I was talking about HIV/AIDS and what would have been a release in the latter stages of the 20th Century; sometime between the two nuclear detonations on Japenese soil and the arrival of the plague that is AIDS to the shores of the US. Anything was possible in those dark days.

I'm well aware of the consequences of a deliberate act of mass genocide using bacterial agents having a catasrophic effect on a global scale in this day and age, but things were much different during WWII and beyond. All I am saying is that it was feasible for the US military to look at a potentially hostile nation and attempt to attack it from within.

The spread of HIV/AIDS has certainly put all nations on alert as to the dangers of tinkering with viral and bacterial agents, whether raw agents or genetically modified.

As for your medical training; I'm sure you'll make a fantastic consultant in the field of your choosing, but as yet you are but a student at med school and a student within the 'University of Life'. You have much to learn about our political masters and their weird and wonderful ways of protecting our great nations.

The first documented case of AIDs is supposed to have occured in 1959. If you don't accept that, than the first case occured in the early 1980s. Now, granted, yes, the world is a bit different than it was in 1959, and less so in 1980. We didn't even know for sure what the STRUCTURE, let alone the FUNCTION of DNA was until 1962 when Rosalind Franklin helped those twits Watson and Crick, and she received little to no credit. Now, explain to me how we could manipulate viruses and bacteria in the WWII era or even the decades immediately following when we weren't entirely sure if or in what form DNA existed?

You also mentioned that you think it's feasible for a nation to want to attack an enemy from within. Of course it is. That's the basis for demoralizing an enemy. If you hit them on their home turf, they won't be willing enough to put up a good fight. That's a far cry, however, from creating a genetically mutated organism to infect millions of people despite the fact that DNA wasn't understood at the time and the fact that the infectious agent would also backlash on their own population.

Does it seem likely our government is experimenting with genetics in bacteria or viruses right now? Of course. That doesn't, however, hint at the government making a superbug. A disease like that, once release on the enemy, would spark a cascade of research because, after all, there would be a lot of money to be made in finding a cure for this new disease even. This research would inevitably lead back to the source. It's actually very easy to look at a modified virus or bacteria and see that it has indeed been modified and identify the precursor. DNA from different soruces acts very differently under certain stresses. That's part of the reason we can classify bacteria and viruses, they respond to environmental stimuli in characteristic ways. As for HIV/AIDS, the most probable theory I have heard it that the monkey kidneys used to culture polio vaccinia in Africa were tainted with SIV (simian immunodeficiency virus) inadvertently due to lack of knowledge of the virus and inability to test for it. This virus, after being exposed to human systems over and over, eventually evolved into a virus which could live in a human system. This is the same reason avian flu can infect humans; it was originally purely a nonhuman virus (just as SIV was), and after many human exposures, a small sample learned to adapt to human systems (just as SIV supposedly has).

Ciao,
~MFP

P.S. Please don't make any personal comments to me. Especially condescending ones.