"Nazi Bell" Debunked ?

If someone could send a ROV down into the mineshaft, that would help a ton. Of course, the chance of that happening is near zero.

reply to post by mad scientist


From what I remember,you are correct in saying the Bell was not situated on top of the henge,but underneath in the mine.
It was enclosed in a room which had rubber mats and ceramic bricks,suggesting a large amount of vibration/heat/radiation(?) was present.

Such and experimental device would have probably required some kind of cooling system-thats where the henge fits in maybe,as the support structure for some kind of water/cooling tower.

If anything,this thread raises more questions rather than debunking the subject IMO.

New user here. Just found something on Google maps.

Google maps link

Located at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah

appears to be exactly like the supposed test rig near the Wenceslaus mine where The Bell was supposedly built.
See photo

Here is a link to the original one in Germany

[edit on 30-10-2009 by runner_one]

[edit on 30-10-2009 by runner_one]

Do you think the bell could be a bomb or reactor for heating up
water for stream and electricity.
I didn't get much out of what I have seen.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


The Flytrap is either part of the Bell's support system - cooling tower, or it is the part of the Bell's application...!

It certainly resembles the base of a cooling tower, but would this tower have not been seen in ally reconnaissance photos? Even if it is part of the support system, what would necessitate such a large cooling tower? This only adds credence to the antidotal evidence thus far.

If it was part of the application, then Joseph Farrell's & Cooks anti-gravity theories are not implausible.

Someone mentioned Farrell having new evidence - any update on this?

Originally posted by runner_one
New user here. Just found something on Google maps.

Google maps link

Located at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah

appears to be exactly like the supposed test rig near the Wenceslaus mine where The Bell was supposedly built.
See photo

Here is a link to the original one in Germany

[edit on 30-10-2009 by runner_one]

[edit on 30-10-2009 by runner_one]

Looks pretty close!

Good find

At least the second (Dugway) image reminds me of what is called a 'swirl test rig', when they are harmonizing airflows, blade pitch settings and anti-torque pedal transients on new helicopters, they chain them down in what amounts to a 360` backstop chainlink fenced enclosure so that if the aircraft goes nuts, none of the test engineers get spiked by flying debris from the high power settings used to simulate actual flight.

Now, that said, the Bell supposedly used torsion fields from direct separation of the magnetic and inertial components of high density metallic compounds (Mercury and Thorium among others) as a means to induce a vorticular 'current' of gravimetric mass change.

It was Schauberger's 'Repulsine' which actually used a turbine type compressor wheel to duct (or ejectorize) an electrostatically charged, ionized, 'glow trail' of air driven thrust.

Does it matter? It might. When Podletknov did the most recent experiments, he was -pushing away- things rather than simply generating a local, internal, perturbation of the gravity field, to lift the object within the established gravity field. This beam of projected lowered gravitic effect was visible as a modifier to channeled cigarette smoke I believe it was, all the way to the top of the multistory building where the experiments took place. Podletknov also has supposely admitted that -his- version of the Agrav device is based, not on high voltage EM compression but rather on Schauburger's -physical- 'implosion' based phenomena (his father, also a materials engineer, got some of Schauberger's papers from the NKVD, back in 1945...).

My own views: there is so much Holocaust apologizing in the Cook work that I find it likely tainted by establishment spin control. i.e. 'too evil to pursue because it was Nazi'.

This covers up for a lot of poor research (all the documents from the German central archives for instance) on everything from materials and labor sourcing (there will be a lot of paperwork feel girder forgings in a wartime Reich pressed for strategic materials, even if it leads to a 'blank account number' under the SS purview), absent pursuit of period witnesses (church records, census and German newspaper advertising) as well as the -physical- evidence of everything from radioactive residues in a gamma saturated cement columns, GPR maps of what lies under the flytrap and indeed, within the mine. And so on.

While I am not saying that this rumor is entirely fake, the usual pyramid of proof starts with physical evidence, continues through documentation and ONLY then finishes with corroborating, independent, witness testimony.

I do doubt if the Poles or the NKVD were either technical experts or terribly kind in their torture of Sporrenberg. Dead mean will still say a lot of lies to make their final living moments less painful.

The fact that there was _not_ a MASSIVE manhunt, down into South America, in pursuit of these fleeing Nazis is also highly telling to me. Stalin was absolutely paranoid about the subject, particularly with regard to Hitler's possible escape. Yet nobody ran down the ratlines, back in 194x? Unbelievable. And yes, I know about Antarctica. I'm talking about obvious things like the experimental research institute for high energy physics that Peron established in a country that was, overall, barely into the 20th century. A few photos snapped there would tell a huge story.

I'm talking about obvious things like the experimental research institute for high energy physics that Peron established in a country that was, overall, barely into the 20th century.

Do you mean Argentina? In the earlier parts of the 20th century, Argentina was a wealthy country, on par with Western Europe. After the destruction of Europe in WW2, it continued to be relatively wealthy and had numerous emigres and intellectuals from Europe pre and post-war (though not as much as the USA of course).

Subsequent decades economic and political mismanagement brought it to where it is now.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by mbkennel]

[edit on 3-8-2010 by mbkennel]

read the articlke : here

leaving aside the authours rabid ` blame it on Bielek ` attitude [ i think its a pre requistite of the site - LOL ]

When I see a website like this dedicated to debunk or defame one individual I find it difficult to lend the website owner any credibility at all. In my own opinion I would have to say the website owner is seeking a vendetta of sorts and his published data would be highly suspect. The website is even crudely done.

I have been struggling to recover my password so have not posted for a very long time. In the meantime I Have performed a lot of research. I even have to revise and perhaps even take back some things I may have said previously in the light of new information.

reply to post by Zenagain


There's nothing left down the mine shaft at Wenceslas, so there's no point sending robots down there. All the clues are in classified documents, patents and memoirs.

A number of underground complexes were explored by the Soviets in 1945-46. Various material and machinery were removed and then tunnels were sealed and flooded by the Red Army.

The Bell was removed about 17 April 1945 and taken by narrow guage rail a short distance to Bystrzyca Klodzka airfield tucked away in a valley amongst the Eulenbirge.

Two people attested to this after the war... SS Col Dr Wilhelm Voss (to Tom Agoston) and SS Hauptsturmfuhrer Rudolf Schuster (report at Berlin Document Centre)

SS Lt Gen Jakob Sporrenberg was arrested in Norway by British forces and returned to Poland in 1946. Witkowski whilst an aviation writer gained access to classified records through an unidentified Polish intelligence officer. Sporrenberg's testimony was transcribed by hand by Witkowski.

Recently whilst digging around myself I came in contact with Prof Mieczysław Mołdava, who worked as a civil engineer whilst an inmate of Gross Rosen. I still don't have the full picture as we are only just beginning to correspond, but I understand from others that the Nazi Bell was housed from November 1943 in an underground complex beneath Gandau airfield in the western outskirts of Breslau (Wroclaw).



It was at Gandau where five from a team of seven scientists died from what appears to be radiation sickness.



Gandau is now beneath a complex of high rise apartments in Wroclaw. It was shifted from Gandau to beneath Furstenstein castle in November 1944 and was moved to Wenceslas mine on 18 December 1944.

The Bell began life in August 1943 as a secret project funded by Seimens at Hamburg. It appears to involve two spheres spun one within another. They were housed under a thick ceramic hood in the shape of a bell. AEG provided power on site at Lower Silesia. The contract to provide power supply was called Projekt Charite Anlage.

The machine was a particle accelerator which I guess spun mercury inside a powerful magnetic field generated under the bell hood. Dr Otto Cerny after the War whilst working for NASA mentioned a reflector above the Bell through which one could view it on a TV like device. This appears to be a reference to an Oscilliscope device. The Reflector appears to be a neutron reflector.

The Germans referred to the Bell as an X-ray transformer in an article in a scientific magazine in August 1943. I have also found a diagram referring to this device.

reply to post by LopEaredGaloot



The Nazi Bell did not do anything that can't be replicated or understood with reference to current understanding of physics. It was not a gravity device.

Prof Gerlach who led the Nazi Bell project demonstrated the spin polarisation of atoms long before WW2 and showed how this could manufacture X-ray radiation in a plasma.

He demonstrated how this spin polarisation could accelerate electrons to amazing speeds by double and then triple ionisation of Mecury in experiments as far back as 1926.

An interesting by-product of this was the ability to transform Mercury or Lead into gold. Seimens acquired patent rights for a much more advanced method which could produce Gold at more economic prices. The ability to transform one metal into another became potentially useful in WW2 when the Nazi government wanted a way to develop fissile Uranium for an atomic weapon.

Gerlach understood that one could bypass enrichment of Uranium 235 with centrifuges, or other laborious separation methods by simply converting Thorium 232 to Uranium 233 with X-ray energies.

Because this method used simple nuclear fusion... not the decay of Uranium, it avoided the breeding of Proactinum and dangerous Uranium 232.

Unlike natural Uranium, natural Thorium has only one isotope. Thorium 232. Therefore there was little risk of breeding unwanted isotopes with an X-ray transformer.

The Bell in operation formed ball plasmas which if uncontained may have been the cause of so called Foo fighters. Whatever the cause I reject any suggestion that the Bell was an anti gravity device.

This is post war disinformation by the CIA to persuade gulliable people that the Nazi Bell was something other than a device for manufacturing fissile material. The reason for concealing the Bell behind disinformation was to prevent it's postwar development by others. Any government with Thorium, plus enough power and a little electrical technology could mass produce nuclear weapons by copying the Nazi Bell.

reply to post by ignorant_ape




I think it's fake. Everything is fake in a certain way if you can understand that

reply to post by kid_cudi


You're entitled to that opinion. There is so much disinformation posted about it, but I have taken the time to dig for valid sources. There are the following sources each of which independently cross corroborate one another about the Nazi Bell X-ray machine:

[1]SS Hauptsturmfuhrer Rudolf Schuster
[2]SS Col Dr. Wilhelm Voss
[3]Dr Otto Cerny, whilst working for Nasa circa 1961.
[3]SS Lt Gen Jakob Sporrenberg depositions before Polish war crimes tribunal
[4]1945 Argentine Govt Report (declassified 1993)
[5]Aug 1943 `Naturwissenschaften' reports secret project by by Steenbeck for Seimens
[6]Dr Rolf Wideroe asked by Luftwaffe 1943 to commence large Rheotron for Houtermanns & Jensen

These sources came to light after the war through varied and different routes. If there were just one source for the Bell's existence then perhaps, but not multiple sources. The Argentines had no knowledge what the Bell was when they reported it's arrival in Argentina during May 1945.

The Bell makes a good story and the gullible believe the twisted tale which has been weaved around it using historical figures. The fact remains that none of the supposed evidence can be corroborated and many of the supposed "interviews" never existed. Especially this supposed interrogation of Sporrenburg.

Tim Ventura here, from www.americanantigravity.com... - I've added a number of links to new information on the Philadelphia Experiment & Nazi-Bell stories to the Wikipedia Entry under the "Alternative Theories" section. In short, a lot of new information is coming out about this story, including:

- Einstein's documented involvement, from his FBI file that places him in 1943 at the Philadelphia Navy Yard working on "a device to explode a torpedo under a ship"

- A detailed technical summary of how the Philadelphia Experiment might be recreated, published by James Corum: www.americanantigravity.com...

- The revelation that "Rhinehart" was in fact that name of a real scientist working at the Philadelphia Navy in '43, who specialized in Naval Degaussing Equipment (ie: big electromagnetic coils)

- Firm connections to the Nazi-Bell Project through Einstein's 1928 revision of the Unified Field Theory, which both the Allies & Axis had copies of (through Walther Gerlach, Nazi oversight for the Bell Project, who had helped Einstein vet the theory in the 20's).

- Engineering-level knowledge of Unified Field-Theory effects, as described by GE scientist Gabriel Kron, which could have easily been couple with Einstein's unfinished UFT.

- Knowledge of gas-plasma absorption of radar, which was later developed further by Northrup for inclusion in the B-2 bomber (NOTE: that this would almost have to be required for the B2, because even if the aircraft itself absorbed radar, the moving air around it would still reflect signals & show up on doppler radar. Radar-absorption of gas plasmas was also further researched during the space-program, as it is the reason that contact is temporarily lost with space capsules upon re-entry.)

A good resource to start with is "Einstein's Antigravity", atL
www.americanantigravity.com...

Thanks!

Tim Ventura
www.americanantigravity.com...

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
reply to post by mad scientist

 

From what I remember,you are correct in saying the Bell was not situated on top of the henge,but underneath in the mine.
It was enclosed in a room which had rubber mats and ceramic bricks,suggesting a large amount of vibration/heat/radiation(?) was present.

Such and experimental device would have probably required some kind of cooling system-thats where the henge fits in maybe,as the support structure for some kind of water/cooling tower.

If anything,this thread raises more questions rather than debunking the subject IMO.

Sporrenberg claimed the Bell to be inside the mine.

After the war Professor Manfred von Ardenne told Soviet scientists the bell was located inside the mine.

Railway worker Joachim Ibrom said after the war that he hooked up power cables via apparatus on three railway wagons to the bell inside the mine.

Nasa scientist Dr Otto Cerny indicated at Huntsville Alabama in 1961 to Greg Rowe that the Bell was in a chamber.

It is only Nick Cook who created this claim that the henge was a structure for the Bell. All that is debunked and thankfully too is the absurd claims that the Bell was anything to do with UFOs or the henge.

Originally posted by mad scientist
The Bell makes a good story and the gullible believe the twisted tale which has been weaved around it using historical figures. The fact remains that none of the supposed evidence can be corroborated and many of the supposed "interviews" never existed. Especially this supposed interrogation of Sporrenburg.

What effort have you ever made to verify anything mad scientist?

That would be too far out of your comfort zone to risk being wrong. Easier to sit in your armchair and snipe away.

Originally posted by timventura
Tim Ventura here, from www.americanantigravity.com... - I've added a number of links to new information on the Philadelphia Experiment & Nazi-Bell stories to the Wikipedia Entry under the "Alternative Theories" section. In short, a lot of new information is coming out about this story, including:

- Einstein's documented involvement, from his FBI file that places him in 1943 at the Philadelphia Navy Yard working on "a device to explode a torpedo under a ship"

- A detailed technical summary of how the Philadelphia Experiment might be recreated, published by James Corum: www.americanantigravity.com...

- The revelation that "Rhinehart" was in fact that name of a real scientist working at the Philadelphia Navy in '43, who specialized in Naval Degaussing Equipment (ie: big electromagnetic coils)

- Firm connections to the Nazi-Bell Project through Einstein's 1928 revision of the Unified Field Theory, which both the Allies & Axis had copies of (through Walther Gerlach, Nazi oversight for the Bell Project, who had helped Einstein vet the theory in the 20's).

- Engineering-level knowledge of Unified Field-Theory effects, as described by GE scientist Gabriel Kron, which could have easily been couple with Einstein's unfinished UFT.

- Knowledge of gas-plasma absorption of radar, which was later developed further by Northrup for inclusion in the B-2 bomber (NOTE: that this would almost have to be required for the B2, because even if the aircraft itself absorbed radar, the moving air around it would still reflect signals & show up on doppler radar. Radar-absorption of gas plasmas was also further researched during the space-program, as it is the reason that contact is temporarily lost with space capsules upon re-entry.)

A good resource to start with is "Einstein's Antigravity", atL
www.americanantigravity.com...

Thanks!

Tim Ventura
www.americanantigravity.com...

Not one scintilla of anything in your post Venturea has anything to do with the actual Bell/ Die Glocke.

Just a bunch of spurious bogus claims that blow smoke over the actual historical device built by the firm BAMAG Meguin at Dassau for Brown Boverie und Cie under a couple of patents issued in Germany in 1943.

The real Bell was a Heavy Particle Accelerator, Source: AEG chairman during WW2 Herman Boucher cited by OSS spy Erwin Respondek and quoted in Woods memorandum, Cordell Hull Papers.

There is your verifiable source Mad Scientist.

Ventura is nothing but hot air.

Nazi Bell-disambiguation

Henge
Uranium breeder (DOR)
Chicken breeder (UFO)

Henge
As a henge, coal had to be transported from the mine. Their trains ran on coal. They require water for their boilers. That is where they fueled up.

Engine runs under tower with empty cars onto turntable, tracks are switched, boiler is refilled, train departs with cars of coal

Uranium breeder
Down in a mineshaft? Perhaps, but the hearsay points to deadly orgone generation, or experimentation with the "third" force as radioisotopes. Makes sense for an unexpected detonation. Still highly speculative.

Chicken breeder
Adamski style UFO. Referred to as Christmas bells in newspapers when spotted over England at Christmas time. "Knockers" rotate, but don't show up in stills.

This, IMO, is the source of the legend.

Nazi Belle.



Although it appears I am being funny, there is a serious component to the twin research of Mengele.