It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Was Jim Jones of Koolaid Fame a victim of MK-ULTRA?

page: 1
<<   2 >>

log in


posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 01:19 PM
Alot of mystery surrounds Jim Jones and the mass suicide of his followers in Guyana.

Following his setting up of the Community Unity Church in Indiana in 1954, which would be the precursors to the Peoples Temple. Fearing the Midwest laid waste by a nuclear war, Jones moved his church to the Northern California community of Ukiah.

Despite the label of "cult" following the mass suicides, many religious scholars agree that the congregation was consistent with other mainstream congregations and was a member of Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) which is a member of the National Council of Churches.

In the 70's he was an outspoken critic of American 'Imperialism" and the capitalist system which he viewed as corrupt. Jones soon became a frequent topic of media criticism. He moved his congregation again to Guyana in what he claimed was an effort to be free of persecution.

Its all kind of goes downhill after that:

My theory is that Jim Jones was either a willing or unwilling participant in the MK-ULTRA project.

1) Ukiah is located about 3 hours North of SRI International in Menlo park California. A private research / think tank center. Lots of inventions to thier credit including the mouse etc. Whats not mentioned on thier website was that they did more than a few contracts for the CIA in the 60's and 70's including remote viewing and MK-ULTRA. Its not out of the realm that Jones may have been involved or a participant in this.

2) Was the camp in Guyana a CIA slave camp for ???? Purposes?

3) Or was the final suicide just an experiment in how much control they had? This level of control if true, could give alot of credence to the "Manchurian Candidate" was this the final outcome???

Related ATS Thread

posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 10:18 PM
I agree. Jones(Raven) was definately a willing participant in the MKultra experiments. I believe his anti-imperialist leanings were a cover. Jim Jones had suspicious connections spanning most of his life. The first was Dan Mitrione (Graduate of the CIA sponsored International Police Acadamy). Jones and Mitrione had been fast friends since childhood. In 1961 Jones travelled to Brazil with Mitrione(who was working closely with the CIA at that point). Jones lived in an expansive house while in Brazil and both lodgings and food were paid for by the American Embassy. He informed his Brazilian neighbours that he was in the employ of Navy Intelligence. While in Brazil, he made frequent trips to 'Belo Horizonte', the headquarters of the CIA in Brazil. In 1963 Jones returned to the United States, With an unexplained windfall of $10,000, enough to begin his next operation.
The Ukiah site of the People's Temple was near 'The Happy Havens Rest Home', guarded by electric fences, guard towers, dogs and armed guards dressed in black. People who attempted to leave were sometimes forcibly restrained. There were at least 150 foster children living at the home along with elderly persons, prisoners, and psychiatric patients. During this time the People's Temple made associations with the Mendocino State Mental Hospital where the group trained in medical techniques. It is reported that in a short while the entire staff at the hospital became members of the People's Temple. Reseacher Michael meiers reported, "The Mendocino Plan was a pilot program of the federal government designed to evaluate the feasibility of deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill. Dennis Denny, Mendocino's Director of Social Services, has speculated that the Mendocino Plan was the sole reason that Jone moved to Ukiah." While in Ukiah the group conducted behaviour modification experiments on both hospital patients and Jones' congregation. Sensory deprivation was utilised by Jones on some of his congregation. It is said that Jones passed on his expertise to Donald DeFreeze(SLA). While in Ukiah Jones was reported to have been in contact with 'World Vision(CIA)'. World Vision employed Mark David Chapman. John Hinkley, Sr. ran a World Vision in Denver, Colorado.
In Ukiah Jones busied himself in elite social circles, he allied himself with Walter Heady (John Birch Society). Members of the Temple organised voting drives for Richard Nixon, worked with the Republican Party, and Jones was appointed chairman of the county grand jury. Many of the upper echelon of the People's Temple were recruited while in Ukiah. According to John Judge, "Most of the top lieutenants around Jones were from wealthy, educated backgrounds, many with connections to the military or intelligence agencies. These were the people who would set up the bank accounts, complex legal actions, and financial records that put people under the Temple's control."
The Layton family financed Jones with large sums of money, they are related to wealthy British and German Families. Dr. Lawrence Layton was Chief of Chemical and Ecological Warfare at the infamous Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah, working later at the Navy Propellant Division, as Director of Missile and Satellite Development. Layton's Stockbroker father-in-law represented I.G. Farben.
George Philip Blakey, the man reported to have made the original $650,000 deposit on the land at Guyana was the husband of the former Debbie Layton. His parents had large holdings in Solvay Drugs, a division of I.G.Farben.
Timothy Stoen, Assistant District Attorney of San Francisco, allegedly another prominant member of the Temple. Jones used his congregation to organise a voting drive for Mayor Moscone, and was rewarded by being put in charge of the San Francisco Housing Commision. Many of Jones' followers obtained jobs at the city Welfare Department where more recuits were signed up.
Mysterious deaths, reported in the local press were connected to the Temple, scrutiny was increased by politicians and media, apparently causing the move to Guyana. Guyana was not Jones' initial choice, he had originally picked Grenada and had deposited $200,000 in the Granada National Bank. After the Massacre $76,000 remained in the bank.
The Jonestown site had earlier been the site of a Union Carbide bauxite and manganese mine. The Guyana site was prepared with the cooperation of the local officials and the U.S. Embassy. The Information Services Company states that; "The U.S. Embassy in Georgetown Guyana housed the Georgetown CIA station. It now appears that the majority and perhaps all of the embassy officials were CIA officers operating under State Dept. Covers." Amoung embassy officials verified as being agents of the CIA are U.S. Ambassador John Burke, who attempted to stop Congressman Leo Ryans investigation of Jonestown. Dan Webber, who was at the site the day after the massacre and Chief Consular Officer Richard McCoy(on loan from the Defense Dept.), were reportedly 'close' to Jones.
The hierarchical structure at Jonestown was composed of all white male camp guards who received special privileges, they could leave the camp freely and carry money. Some of these guards had been employed as mercenaries in Africa and elswhere. The guards survived the massacre. The rest of the camp was 90% women and 80% black, these people existed under slave-like conditions, working 16-18 hours a day, witrh miserable rations. When Black members of the Temple arrived from the U.S., they were bound and gagged before being taken to the compound. Perceived infractions within Jonestown les to forced drugging, public rape, torture and beatings.
Jeannie Mills, a member of the Temple, claimed to have seen films taken inside a Chilean torture camp while at Jonestown. These films were either taken at the Colonia Dignidad or another located at Pisagua. These camps have documented connections to the CIA as well as to Fourth Reich Nazis.
The Jonestown massacre was probably instigated by the arrival of Congressman Leo Ryan, who was probably the most active investigator in Washington of CIA abuses, and without a doubt Number 1 on the Agencies Hate List. Ryan had introduced the Hughes-Ryan Amendment to the National Assistance Act, transferring the overseeing of the CIA from the Armed Forces Commitee.
Ryan had uncovered information linking the CIA to the creation of mind control cults, including the Unification Church of Reverend Sung Myung Moon, and the Symbionese Liberation Army. In response to stories of atrocities at Jonestown, Ryan decided to investigate for himself- this decision ultimately led to his death.
After travelling to Jonestown and attempting to return to the U.S., Ryan, several reporters, and a Jonestown defector were killed on the airstrip at Port Kaituma, the massacre followed shortly after. Observers reported that Ryan's group were killed by armed men who acted like "zombies".
Cheering was heard 45 minutes after the mass death at Jonestown, and those people have never been accounted for. Robert Pastor, an aide to Zbigniew Brzezinski, at the time Natioal Security advisor to Jimmy Carter, sent orders to the U.S. military to remove " all politically sensitive papers and forms of I.D. from the bodies.
Dr. MooToo, a Guyanese pathologist, the first medical person at the scene, and the first to examine the bodies of the victims declared that there were fresh needle marks on the left shoulder blades of 80-90% of the bodies. Some of the victims had been shot or strangled. The gun that Jones had reportedly shot himself with was found 200 feet away from his body. Mootoo concluded to the Guyanese Grand Jury that all but 3 of the victims had not committed suicide, but were murdered. When autopsies were performed at Dover, Delaware, the forensic doctors were not informed of Dr. MooToo's findings.
The body identified as Jim Jones did not have Jones' chest tattoos, and was so decomposed that it was not recognizable. Fingerprints on the body were checked twice, for no apparent reason. Jones' dental records were not consulted.
The Recovery of the bodies to the U.S. were botched, with all I.D. removed, and a delay of a week before the bodies were transported. Rotting made autopsies impossible. Due to the decomposition only 17 bodies were identified in Delaware, although the Guyanese had initially identified 174 bodies, that information was destroyed.
At least 200 people survived Jonestown, they were never contacted by the press. Jeannie and Al Mills, two survivors who planned to write a book about their experience were murdered, as well as another survivor in Detroit. According to John Judge, "Yet another was involved in a mass murder of schoolchildren in Los Angeles".
At the time of the masssacre, CIA agent Richard Dwyer, Deputy Chief of Mission for the U.S. Embassy in Guyana was present. In a tape recording made immediately prior to the killings, Jones can be heard saying, "Get Dwyer out of here."
At the end Jones had accumulated a wealth estimated to be between $26 million and $2 billion. The government receivership determined a figure of $10 million. Much of this money has unaccountably disappeared.
Joe Holsinger, Congressman Leo Ryan's attorney and friend, said that a few hours after the murder of Ryan he had heard from a White House official that "We have a CIA report from the scene." Holsinger wrote, " The more I investigate the mysteries of Jonestown, the more I am convinced there is something sinister behind it all. There is no doubt in my mind that Jones had very close CIA connections. At the time of the tragedy, the Temple had three boats in the water off Brazil. The boats disappeared shortly afterwards. Remember, Brazil is a country that Jones is very familiar with. He is supposed to have money there. And it is not too far from Guyana. My own feeling is that Jones was ambushed by CIA agents who then disappeared in the boats. But the whole story is so mind-boggling that I'm willing to concede he escaped with them."

posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 10:50 PM
I just watched a segment about this on the History channel today. Funny I find it here.. except the segment made them all out to be a bunch of wackos that eventually lost faith.

Btw, excellent post Nemo, very very informative.. it's really got my thinking..

I won't pretend to know alot about MKULTRA, but the most I do know is that the government was working feveretly on discovering some kind of mind control.

I've always wondered that either these people were tricked into drinking the poison, or they were seriously being influenced. The whole situation reeks of foul play. Especially with all the connections you've laid forth.

posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 10:57 PM
Making Killers Utilizing Lethal Tradecraft Requiring Assassination, because there are alot of MK projects. It don't seem right, since there would be all them projects "Making Killers".

What the project was about from my understanding, is that it was a test bed. A controlled environment such as "Jonestown", to see if individuals and groups of, could be controlled, or as it was chemically manipulated.
If a small group could produce favorable results, what would be stopping them from conducting a much bigger variation.

Here is a quote from a prowrit, the rest covers World War II Era, when all the MK ULTRA stuff was getting started. It can be found just before half way, or if you enjoy reading, it can be found under the section highlighted above.

Later in his career, Bateson was allegedly involved with a number of experimental psychological warfare initiatives, including the CIA's Operation MKUltra, which conducted mind-control research.

Even though this forum is for topics not requireing sources or confirmation, I felt it relevent that somethng of a solid link be offered, as this is real.

Also a copy of the transcript, if this version is not up to par for some of you, feel free to search for a .gov version.


[edit on 28-10-2005 by ADVISOR]

posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 11:13 PM
Great stuff guys! It's amazing, to me, that I had never heard of this possible connection with the CIA. I had just always bought into the crazy cult leader scenario and left it at that. In fact, I had very little knowledge of MK-ULTRA and to what extent they performed their experiments. Man, that’s the stuff of nightmares and it shocks me that not many, in the general public, know of this secret program and the dreadful crimes they committed. Reading into this, I suppose it’s possible that Jones could have been involved with this program and involved in a horrific experiment. It always seemed strange that all of those bodies seemed so carefully laid out. Also, why would so many keep drinking while they watched others die in front of them? Some would have followed blindly, but not all. It makes me wonder though, in the end was Jones killed or did he kill himself? Was he part of an experiment all along and just another “brain washed” or drug altered individual? Did this trial turn dangerous for those running it? Did it need to be terminated quickly, when things got out of hand and the visiting group, including Senator Leo Ryan, were murdered? Interesting stuff guys.

posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 11:31 PM
Another interesting possibilty is that the Ryan assassination was a successful MK Ultra experiment.
Ryan had been investigating the MK Ultra program before he went down to Guyana, and seemed to have a hate on for the CIA. He was author of a bill called the Hughes-Ryan Amendment that targeted them directly.

Existing law--the Hughes-Ryan amendment--prohibits only CIA from using appropriated funds to carry out covert actions without a Presidential finding and reporting to the committees. The oversight title applies this restriction to all agencies.

Existing law--the Hughes-Ryan amendment and the 1980 Oversight Act--applies only to covert actions undertaken by CIA and does not include covert actions undertaken by other elements of the Government. Executive Order 12333 fills the gap by applying the requirement for a Presidential finding and reporting to the intelligence committees to all agencies. The oversight title would by law extend this requirement to any element of the Government which is used to carry out a covert action, not simply CIA.

This would have required that the CIA report all their covert actions to Congress and get pre-approval from the President.

So, just maybe, he went to Jonestown (or was lured there
) and was then assassinated by mind-controlled members, under orders of the CIA! And then to clean up all the evidence they got them to drink the kool-aid and blamed it all on a crazy cult leader.

I love this new forum.

posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 12:33 AM
Intersting that you should mention the luring of Leo Ryan, Duzey.
Jeannie and Al Mills whom I mention in the previous post, were formerly known as Deanna and Elmer Mertle. The Mertles were the Public Relations officers for the People's Temple. They changed their names when they left the Temple in 1975. The Mertles founded the Human Foundation Centre, a counselling centre for 'former cult members'. These lieutenants of Jim Jones and a few other of the inner core of the Temple left at the same time to become 'Concerned Relatives'. The Mertles played the major role in luring Leo Ryan to Jonestown.
After the murder of the Mertles (including their teen-aged daughter) on February 26, 1980, a friend of the dead family reported to a local police station that a psychiatrist once employed at the Centre had commited the murders.

posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 01:09 AM
Thanks. I knew Ryan was being pressured by some groups to go to Jonestown but I didn't know the Mertles were part of it. I'll have read up on that more.

I just reread your post and it reminded me of something else.

Originally posted by Nemo me impune lacessit
The Layton family financed Jones with large sums of money, they are related to wealthy British and German Families. Dr. Lawrence Layton was Chief of Chemical and Ecological Warfare at the infamous Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah, working later at the Navy Propellant Division, as Director of Missile and Satellite Development. Layton's Stockbroker father-in-law represented I.G. Farben.

Larry Layton, Dr. Layton's son, was the only person who ever went to trial for the assassination. He was initially aquitted but was retried and is serving a life sentence.

posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 06:00 AM
ahh I love this new forum too...

fascinating point of view...damn Fred why the heck have you raised my curiousity again......... theres another few months of reading a research on yet another subject.
I read about Jonestown years ago because it fascinated me so much .... always suspicious though

posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 09:38 PM
Some more info on Jonestown:
Michael Meiers book "Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?"
Meiers states: The Jonestown experiment was conceived by Dr. Layton, Staffed by Dr. Layton and financed by Dr. Layton. It was as much his project as it was Jim Jones's. Though it was essential for him to remain in the background for security reasons, Dr. Layton maintained contact with and even control of the experiment through his wife and children."
Survivors of the tragedy have staunchly maintained that Jim Jones was "an employee, servant, agent or operative of the CIA".
In October 1981 the survivors launched a $63 million lawsuit against Secretary of State Cyrus Vance and Stansfield Turner, former Director of the CIA. The suit, filed in U.S. district court of San Francisco, accused Turner of Conspiring with Agency operatives to "enhance the economic and political powers of James Warren Jones", and of conducting "mind control and drug experimentation" on the followers.
The lawsuit was dismissed four months later for "failure to prosecute timely." All requests for an appeal were denied.

On the same path, does anyone have any points of view on the McMartin pre-school case, or the Finders, or the Ohama case?

posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 09:56 PM
Jim Jones was a Jesuit.

Basically the whole thing was a setup to make fundamentalist Christians look bad, in a nutshell.

posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 10:08 PM
That is an interesting premise that I had not considered before. However, then why allow him to even more out of the US and simply conduct the operation here? It would have had a much bigger impact than it did. ie. This stuff does not happen in our backyard so to speak.

David Koresh would also fit in this scenario as well.

posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 10:19 PM

Originally posted by FredT
That is an interesting premise that I had not considered before. However, then why allow him to even more out of the US and simply conduct the operation here? It would have had a much bigger impact than it did. ie. This stuff does not happen in our backyard so to speak.

David Koresh would also fit in this scenario as well.

I'm not sure to be honest. The owner of the web site got it from Jack Chick's Crusaders comic books (yes I have those comics myself!). Jack Chick, in turn, got his information from ex-Jesuit Alberto Rivera, who died in 1997.

There are not very many sources at all concerning/confirming this.

I too heard of Jeannie Mills who wrote the book exposing the affair. She, her husband, and daughter were murdered because of it.

As far as David Koresh, I doubt he was the monster the media portrayed him as, but I don't think he was a saint either. I heard he might have been MK-Ultra.

posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 10:22 PM
I had never come across that info before and I have dabbled into looking at it as Leo Ryan represented an area near me. Further digging is required for this I think....

posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 03:09 AM
Great stuff Fred,
I don't want to change the subject. I too had never heard any of the CIA involvement of Jones. Along a similar vein, does anyone know if David Koresh was somehow CIA? I'm just throwing this out there because I have no idea myself.

posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 12:04 PM
OMG! this stuff is so amazingly interesting. I, too, love this site. It astonishes me that this researched info. and these connections are out there and the general public is totally kept in the dark. Someone please answer this for me!...I love ATS and just joined.
I was talking to me dad who is retired Government and is still a consultant w/ DOD He just aplied and got secret clearance that is supposedly "higher" than regular secret clearance. Anyway, I figure he knows alot of stuff he doesn't talk about of course. The point is, I said to him, "Dad there's this great forum on the web and they are talking about all kinds of stuff I always pondered and was never talked about on the news. He tore me down and said sure the government keeps secrets but, its the journalists job to get the word out and inform the public. He said I should listen to the "real" news on TV ABC, CBS etc. He said if any of these speculations were true it'd be on the news.
Ya Right!.. Not if reporters and people trying to get at the truth are threatened or murdered. Anyway, I made a valid point about a topic and he said he had to go..end of conversation. I have so many questions and comments but, I'll try to restrain myself alittle:
1. How does Nimo...know so many facts and connections that the general public doesn't know about. Did you read a book , research on-line or what.
2. Does anyone know anything about the experiments on the psych patients in the hospital near-by? I have so much to say about psych patient manipulation maybe I should start a new link. I mean very important note didn't someone say Hinkley Sr. was involved and Chapman worked somewhere connected. And didn't Hinkley Jr. go crazy and try to shoot (who was it, Pres.Reagan). It is extremely easy to induse psychosis in otherwise normal people.
3. Back to the media , why don't a journalists report on some stuff like I don't think anyone in mainstream media mentioned any of this about Jonestown that would make the general public suspicious of the CIA connections, Why Not? Are they really afraid to be murdered.?

posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 07:57 PM
Otterbaby, if you are interested may I recommend Alex Constantine to you.
His books are very well researched(Psychic Dictatership in the U.S.A., Virtual Government, The Covert War Against Rock).

posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 08:14 PM
Thanks alot, to "nemo me..." for recommending that author. I will defintely look him up. Thanks!

posted on Jun, 14 2008 @ 04:46 PM
if you change c with k you could get MKULTRA WITH MCULTRA...MASS - CULT -RECREATION-AREA....cult spelt kult....

posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 11:46 AM
Look if the american people are to stupid to see and understand whats happening to this country then they don,t need to know. my opinion they are getting what they deserve. These people we are dealing with happen to be a lot smarter then the people that were born here. Even though I was
born in the united states I don,t fell sorry for them. I just happen to be a lot smarter. I don,t know if the media knows whats going on it could be they want to mind there own business and it could be they are a part of whats going on. Who knows? I do know that I am a victim, I have experience some of the things, but what ever going to happen its going to happen. they tryed to pump fear into me, get me into a mental Ins. but Im strong so if you are weak what ever happens to that peson it is because they let it happen they couldnt shake it off they were weak, so they deserve what they get. I don,t mean to sound harse these people
have resources. The best medication is to be strong, mind your own business don,t see nothing, don,t hear nothing don,t know nothing.

top topics

<<   2 >>

log in