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Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
To clarify for further replies:
Are we supposed to reply based on the currently accepted Christian doctrine teachings, or can we use our personal beliefs too?
Originally posted by saint4God
Good question. As an assessment from scripture, is specifically what I was looking for.
Originally posted by riley
Hypathetically. I'd say yes. I know most interprite 'the only way to heaven is through me' as being you HAVE to believe and worship him.. it's not that specific. It might be simply following the teachings.
Originally posted by saint4God
I know a lot of people who feel the same way. The questions I have though are:
1.) How many teachings must one follow in order to qualify for heaven?
2.) What about the passage that says, "For it is by grace you have been saved,
either through faith - and this is not from yourselves, it is a gift from God - not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9) ?
Glad to see you around again.
Originally posted by riley
Originally posted by saint4God
I know a lot of people who feel the same way. The questions I have though are:
1.) How many teachings must one follow in order to qualify for heaven?
Is ten the minumum?
Originally posted by riley
'Grace' is interpritive.. it could be a description of Jesus' charactor and that had the ability to acertain the nature of someone.. not nessarily in the context of a doorman letting patrons into heaven on the basis of whether or not they are wearing a crucifix.
Originally posted by riley
This is even more vague. 'Faith from yourselves?' if this faith in god is innate.. there would be no need to convert anybody. Faith can also be another word for 'hope'.. and it doesn't say in god specifically.. it might mean eachother or the future. Without learning ancient hebrew it's hard to know for sure.
That 'season' of 'sin' is the duration of each of our earthly lives, James. My heart tells me that God's abilities are both boundless and incomprehensible--once God rescues a sheep, that sheep is safe and snug in the fold where they belong. Do you not recall the verses that say there is no chance of anyone or any force snatching anything out of God's hand?
Originally posted by Machine
I’m still of the belief that scripture supports God’s ability and desire to keep a man saved even if he or she walks in sin for a season.
What difference do any so-called 'claims' have to do with who, what, and how they believe (in our LORD or otherwise)? That's not much more than lip-service--nothing to God but far too much for humans, as far as what counts as 'what really is.' What about the verses that say God knows what's in a man's heart? And that the tongue is a little member, full of iniquity? Words can make or break fortunes, sanity, and hope in this world--but to God our words mean nothing if they don't align with what He reads in our hearts.
For the man who once claimed to be a believer in Jesus then renounces Him I think that person may very well be in big trouble if he was to die in that state.
Truly--though--what's the point if He can't? What's to believe in if it's all up to us in the end, anyway? First to believe, then to toe the line at every moment until we die so we can avoid the death we hope to escape (or hell, if that's your preference)--how can that be considered 'truth' since it certainly doesn't set a person 'free.'
The concept that seems to be supported most in my opinion (in this I could be wrong) is that a person who is truly saved will be kept by God and cannot then lose his salvation.
Why do you waste your time questioning such matters in regard to others? Do you really think that God wills you to think along those lines?
If someone says, “I don’t believe in God anymore but I use to be a Christian” I would question whether or not that person was ever truly saved.
How about 'let's not,' James!
Let’s examine Queenannie38 for example.
Can we set the record straight, here, about what I might supposedly 'deny' or acknowledge, blah blah blah--since I'm here, now, too?
On one hand she denies the reality of Hell and eternal damnation but on the other hand she acknowledges Jesus Christ as her LORD and Saviour.
Specifically, what I said was that I was baptized in a christian church by the person in the office of Pastor at the time. Alvin Covington, to be
She further stated that she was baptized into the Christian faith and believes that Jesus was indeed God in the flesh and that he died for her sins.
It doesn't matter James! Who cares? Does God? I daresay NO. To confess or deny the name of our LORD has little or nothing to do with calling one's self a 'christian.'
Is she a Christian even though she denies being a Christian?
I am not a christian, James--you persist on applying what you feel is a wonderful designation, but I see as nothing short of 'defamation of character.' If you want to call yourself that, then who am I to say you are or aren't? It's neither here nor there, to me--I can see what fruits you grow--if you tell me you're an apple tree but I see without a doubt you have peaches from your limbs--what do you think I will consider the more reliable source of information?
I’d say she is indeed a Christian although I only found this out yesterday.
Conversely, it would seem even more equitable to say that I have never read that God will concoct a hell for someone who truly believes there is such a place (for other people) in order to demonstrate what 'righteousness' really means (for those who believe in such an unrighteous 'god')
Her teachings on universalism are not biblical but I don’t recall having read anything in the Bible that says someone who doesn’t believe in Hell is going to go there.
God never intended His offered salvation to be something difficult to understand and overly complex. The simplest of minds can grasp the basic truth necessary to be saved from Hell and washed clean of sin.
Is 'validation' the same as 'justification?' Who, exactly, makes such a call regarding someone's so-called belief in Jesus Christ? What kind of belief? That He lived? That He died? Or is it all about the fact that He lived again, forever?
The growth that should follow from this point will validate the truth of that person’s belief in Jesus Christ.
That's a sharp blow--but not a cheap shot by any means. Self-delusion is the ultimate liar--and the one most likely to be believed until the bitter end. I truly love irony.
Originally posted by spamandham
Well, my position is admittedy biased (which makes me more honest than you unless you admit the same), but...
*Ouch* That is so logical and simple, too! Hmmm...
For Jesus' "sacrifice" to atone for our sins, it must be self sufficient. Otherwise, it is not just his sacrifice that atones, but his sacrifice combined with something else.
*Pow*
But, since his sacrifice is singular, if the something else is not singular, then the atonement is really dependent on that something else on a case by case basis.
So...if there is any contingency at all, in any form, and regardless of rationale, as to why I must believe (or do) whatever it is I'm supposed to believe (or do) in order for my sins to be atoned, then it is really that belief or action, and not the sacrifice, that atones.
That is undeniably true--and even Paul (whom you have little regard for) said exactly that--but rarely did anyone truly hear.
To place any restriction of any kind on who is the recipient of such atonement renders the "sacrifice" useless, and props up instead the resriction itself as the means of atonement.
Actually--it really isn't 'Paul's opposition' at all, because that is exactly what he says, too. But his words have been martyred, so to speak, burned at the proverbial religious stake--the stack lit by the flame which burns on the end of the christian tongue (that 'little member' mentioned by James).
Paul's justification by faith is in opposition to Jesus' justification by his own sacrifice.
Originally posted by shihulud
It doesn't really matter who gets in or out of heaven or how we get there.
Originally posted by shihulud
If I remember correctly only 144000 people are getting in anyway
Originally posted by shihulud
and also where do people/souls go while they are waiting to get to heaven???
G
Originally posted by shihulud
It doesn't really matter who gets in or out of heaven or how we get there. If I remember correctly only 144000 people are getting in anyway and also where do people/souls go while they are waiting to get to heaven???
Originally posted by apex
Originally posted by shihulud
It doesn't really matter who gets in or out of heaven or how we get there. If I remember correctly only 144000 people are getting in anyway and also where do people/souls go while they are waiting to get to heaven???
As I have learned from pointing this out on other threads, those 144000 are the people who go to heaven whilst still alive in the book of revelation, not in all time, 144000 out of about, I don't know 20 billion who ever lived seems a bit unlikely, you know?
And also, i am not sure about ex-christians, but atheists, I think are well into a big hole they need to get out of, but non christians, I really don't have a clue!