POLITICS: Schroeder Quits!

A defeated German PM fired a final shot in his government's long standing rift with the U.S. and Britain. The SPD, now reeling with the loss of their leader since 1998, will engage in coalition talks with Merkel's conservative party next Monday. The Talks are scheduled to be finished by November 12.



I wish I could say that I am sorry to see him go, but I am not. His anti- US/British line grew tiresome. All the rhetoric was nothing more than an attempt to deflect attention to his governments failing economic policies. While I am not looking for Merkel to fall into lock step with the US and Britain, I do hope her government will take a more proactive role in helping the ailing German economy. It remains to be seen if the SPD will serve only as a stumbling block to the conservative government, or with the loss of Schroeder and his ilk, will join the Merkel government in lifting up the German economy.

[edit on 12-10-2005 by Imperium Americana]


[edit on 12-10-2005 by Imperium Americana]

His anti-UK/US position grew tiresome? First of all he isn't anti-UK/US, he disagrees with our politicians policies like countless millions of others do. He didn't think invading Iraq was a good idea (looks like he was right on that one) and he thinks the economic policies of Britain and the United States wouldn't gel with Europe's traditions of social safety nets. He was brave enough to not bow and scrape to the supposedly now unassailable Blair and Bush, I for one respect that.

I'm glad Germany will now be able to move forward with a new government but I wont just let Schroeder cop a beating he doesn't deserve.

[edit on 12/10/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
His anti-UK/US position grew tiresome? First of all he isn't anti-UK/US, he disagrees with our politicians policies like countless millions of others do. He didn't think invading Iraq was a good idea (looks like he was right on that one) and he thinks the economic policies of Britain and the United States wouldn't gel with Europe's traditions of social safety nets. He was brave enough to not bow and scrape to the supposedly now unassailable Blair and Bush, I for one respect that.

I'm glad Germany will now be able to move forward with a new government but I wont just let Schroeder cop a beating he doesn't deserve.

[edit on 12/10/05 by subz]

LOL Oh please….have you even followed Deutsch Politics in the last seven years? I a quite sure Schroeder is an pleasant guy. He seems like he would be fun to knock a few links and drink some beers, but his administration has been disastrous for Deutschland. He only stayed in power because he kept giving away money that Deutschland does not have (Like Bush) and has made a point of being a US/Britain contrarian.

I mean come on….he has an administration that has barely kept unemployment out of double digit range (10-11%). Even then, we are talking stretches measured in weeks (at 9.5%). Hell it took 2 massive hurricanes to jump us up 1-2%. With such dire economic straits, did anyone in his cabinet offer any New ideas to shore up their economy….NO!

In fact the only steps that were taken were slight cuts to Welfare and slight tax cuts. What was necessary was a paradigm shift in the nature of the Deutsch economy. One that dumps the failing Eastern socialist models and returns back to the highly successful Western Deutsch economic practices.

Schroeder made his last re-election bids on the basis of fixing the problems Deutschland faced (without actually changing anything), making the EU stronger, and sticking the US in the eye. That was it! To be fair, it had worked before, and with Merkel’s slip ups (appointing Paul Kirchhof as Fin. Min.), they almost pulled it off again.

The funny thing is that in the US Paul Kirchhof would have received a very warm reception, if appointed to say the Treasury Dept.

Oh but then again we are not the stumbling crippled economy that Deutschland is right now. They will continue to be one foot in depression unless they slip the lavish social welfare noose off of their necks.

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
I mean come on….he has an administration that has barely kept unemployment out of double digit range (10-11%). Even then, we are talking stretches measured in weeks (at 9.5%). Hell it took 2 massive hurricanes to jump us up 1-2%. With such dire economic straits, did anyone in his cabinet offer any New ideas to shore up their economy….NO!

What does that have to do with anything I said? Im not debating Schroeder's economic record so why are you? You were painting a picture of Schroeder as specifically "anti- US/British" and that is what I took issue with. You still haven't shown me how he was "anti- US/British" at all but tried to direct the conversation into some pre-canned economic diatribe.

What you fail to see is that if Schroeder publically disagrees with Blair and Bush's policies that doesn't make him "anti- US/British". All it means is that he doesn't agree with their policies, if you cannot see the difference you are being deliberately jingoistic to discredit Schroeder. Playing the scorned patriot is what's really growing tiresome if you ask me.

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
In fact the only steps that were taken were slight cuts to Welfare and slight tax cuts. What was necessary was a paradigm shift in the nature of the Deutsch economy. One that dumps the failing Eastern socialist models and returns back to the highly successful Western Deutsch economic practices.

Again, so what? Did I say the contrary? Did I Schroeder was good for Germany's economy?

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Schroeder made his last re-election bids on the basis of fixing the problems Deutschland faced (without actually changing anything), making the EU stronger, and sticking the US in the eye. That was it! To be fair, it had worked before, and with Merkel’s slip ups (appointing Paul Kirchhof as Fin. Min.), they almost pulled it off again.

How did he stick the US in the eye? Oh yeah he vocally opposed the Iraq war. Oh how dare the petulant chancellor fall out of lockstep with the US and UK. Who does he think he is??

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
The funny thing is that in the US Paul Kirchhof would have received a very warm reception, if appointed to say the Treasury Dept.

So? I don't give a rats about that, we are talking about Schroeder's "anti- US/British" behaviour arent we?

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Oh but then again we are not the stumbling crippled economy that Deutschland is right now. They will continue to be one foot in depression unless they slip the lavish social welfare noose off of their necks.

Ha! You should have a look at your twin deficits my American friend, they are hardly healthy but I digress. You can have your anti-German rant all you like but it doesn't back your accusation up in the slightest. Schroeder is not "anti- US/British" in the slightest so you can drum up anti-German sentiment some other way, k?

[edit on 13/10/05 by subz]

Anti-Deutsch? How...I am Deutsch! Anti-Schroeder...yes. Did you check the link? Here I will give you just his latest example:

"I do not want to name any catastrophes where you can see what happens if organised state action is absent. I could name countries, but the position I still hold forbids it, but everyone knows I mean America," he said to loud applause.

Ah HAHAHAHA....golly he is sooo funny! *rolls eyes*

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Anti-Deutsch? How...I am Deutsch! Anti-Schroeder...yes.

That doesn't change anything, you can still be anti-German.

If I said "All Brits are evil and worthless" I would be being anti-British even though I am British.

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Did you check the link? Here I will give you just his latest example:

[..]

Ah HAHAHAHA....golly he is sooo funny! *rolls eyes*

That's not anti-American, that's criticising American policy. Cant you see the difference? Its not that hard

[edit on 13/10/05 by subz]

You should have a look at your twin deficits

LOL people in glass houses should not throw rocks Subz

www.cia.gov...

Originally posted by shots
LOL people in glass houses should not throw rocks Subz

www.cia.gov...

Shots, even though im loathed to gratify you with a response to this obvious nationalistic rivalry thing you have going: check the dates. The UK figure is 2003 and the US one is 2001 est.

3 United States $ 1,400,000,000,000 2001 est.

From your CIA link

According to your Treasury Department the US external debt currently stands at $8.836 trillion as of June 30, 2005.

United States

Table A: Gross External Debt Position*: June 30, 2005
(Millions of U.S. Dollars)

[...]

GROSS EXTERNAL DEBT * 8,836,998

U.S Treasury Department Website
You know, twice the British one *chortle*

[edit on 13/10/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
Shots, even though im loathed to gratify you with a response to this obvious nationalistic rivalry thing you have going: check the dates. The UK figure is 2003 and the US one is 2001 est.

I see my point went right over your head or is it you do not want to admit that your deficit is also high. My guess is the later of the two choices. Like I said people in glass houses should not throw stones.

Actually my point was that Schroeder isnt anti-American/British. How I've managed to be dragged into this chasm of nationalism is beyond me. Can we stop the merry-go-round, I want to get off

[edit on 13/10/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
Actually my point was that Schroeder isnt anti-American/British.

That is highly subjective and you know it.

How I've managed to be dragged into this chasm of nationalism is beyond me. Can we stop the merry-go-round, I want to get off

Excuse me. you were the one who brought up deficit, you have only yourself to blame for that

Wait a minute, just wanted to share this tidbit.

Current account balance (per capita)

18. Germany $+892.75 per person

132. United Kingdom $-553.60 per person

148. United States $-2,186.09 per person
Link

Yeah way to ruin the German economy Schroeder! You should of joined the Iraq war and your CEO's would of made out like bandits. Why oh why did Schroeder not bankrupt his nation's grandkids? The fool!

Shots, this circular argumentative style you have is really doing my head in I never brought up economies first, our thread authour did.

[edit on 13/10/05 by subz]

That may well be true however you were the one that brought up deficits first and that is what I was addressing.

Ha! You should have a look at your twin deficits my American friend,

LOL and you addressed that to a German not an American no wonder you are going in circles.

Yes. My mistake, I shouldnt of assumed from his name (Imperium Americana) that he was infact American.

Originally posted by subz
Yes. My mistake, I shouldnt of assumed from his name (Imperium Americana) that he was infact American.

That being the case wouldn't you say his position on Schroeder is far more accurate then yours? I mean after all he does live and understand what goes on in the country far better then you or I ever will.

Originally posted by shots
That being the case wouldn't you say his position on Schroeder is far more accurate then yours? I mean after all he does live and understand what goes on in the country far better then you or I ever will.

Well if he does he's yet to prove it. Nothing he has said, or I have read, shows Schroeder is anti-American or anti-British. Until then I believe in what I have previously read about his resistance to American/British policies, which is where his anti attitudes end.

Originally posted by subz
Well if he does he's yet to prove it. Nothing he has said, or I have read, shows Schroeder is anti-American or anti-British. Until then I believe in what I have previously read about his resistance to American/British policies, which is where his anti attitudes end.

Oh get off your throne subz you cannot always be right. The author lives in Germany you and I do not. Certainly that alone gives him better credence then anything you read in the media.

He lives and works there. He hears what others think and he also reads their media which we do not on a regular basis. Give the author a break and admit he is far more leaned then you ever will be when it comes to Germany.


Unlike you I will take the word of a German over that of an American or UK subject any day of the year, simply because we only know what we read. He lives there, but I doubt you will see my reasoning since you always are right.:shk:

Will you 2 stop this petty bickering? It adds nothing to the topic.

Wow...went off line to rebuild a PC and I come back to this?

LOL To clarify a few points

1. I am a American citizen, was Deutsch. With the exception of my Dad, Opa & Oma (Grandmother and Grandfather); my entire family lives still in a little hamlet in N. Bavaria. I have followed Deutsch politics since 1989 & the reunification.

3. Schroeder has run a administration that was chocked full of anti-American sentiment. I do not think for a moment that this sentiment was any more than political pandering to his core base: hard line socialist from the East. It is the same as if Bush pandered to his core base on the far right...oh wait he does! LOL It is to be expected from politicos. If you fail to see this, for the real politic that it is, then you fail to understand the movement in Deutsch politics; and frankly most political environments.

4. Fact is there is a strong anti-US (specifically) running through portions of the EU. That is why his tactics have been successful, to a point. I saw it with my own eyes the last two years that I have gone to see my family (Christmas, Summer holiday, etc.). Granted I take less crap than most Americans, simply due to the fact that I speak Deutsch and I am from Deutschland (I can blend in better than most Americans).

5. If we want to talk about the debt portions (American/Britain vs. Deutschland) you need to factor in the Mark to Euro conversion and the conversions effects.

Originally posted by Imperium Americana

LOL To clarify a few points

4. Fact is there is a strong anti-US (specifically) running through portions of the EU. That is why his tactics have been successful, to a point. I saw it with my own eyes the last two years that I have gone to see my family (Christmas, Summer holiday, etc.). Granted I take less crap than most Americans, simply due to the fact that I speak Deutsch and I am from Deutschland (I can blend in better than most Americans).

Thanks for the clarification Imperium. I sensed what you were getting at since you were Deutsch and certainly think you are far more qualified to speak on the issue.

Might I ask if you know other Deutsch members of ATS that can confirm the very same feelings?

It would be nice to hear from them on the issue also.

I am just triying to uphold the ATS Moto of Denying Ignorance here which is what I think some members have when it comes to the Deutsch.


Thanks



[edit on 10/13/2005 by shots]