9/11 investigitation : "stranger than fiction"

I read this article in it's entirety and i must say I have a great respect for the anonymous author who took his name off of it so as not to be placed on the best seller list under "Fiction.

I have respect for him because this man is a true master at putting together bits and pieces of rumors, and legends, and phrasing them in a way that is believable by the average reader. If it were possible for most readers to look this over objectively it would become extraordinarily clear to all that this person is either nuts, or has a vivid imagination. It is the responsibility of an author to see to it that his writings are truth to the best of his abilities. I feel that this author did not do that as the majority of his points are simply hearsay, gossip, stereotypes, and hypotheses.
Writing an article with the aforementioned things is fine, as an editorial piece, or as a theory. Claiming them to be fact is unethical.
Anonymous, one "eyewitness" accounts, butchering historical events, blaming everything from all World Wars & Economic problems, down to everything but the weather on Israel. It never occured to any of you dear readers that there was a pattern here. There are those of you here who criticize Israel but claim to have no problems with Jews in general. That is understandable. But if you claim to be that, but have no problem taking a storyteller's word for it that the Jewish people have been trying to destroy society and kill you all for thousands of years is pathetic.
That is the point of this fellow's article. Not just to blame 9/11 on the Jews (which is bad enough) but to blame WW1, WW2, and a whole host of other things as well. If you read it and think it's just about 9/11 you're a fool.

The tactic is as follows:
He makes a point. He says he is going to prove his point using history to support him. He then gives HIS version of history, interpreted to suit HIM and his Thesis. After offering his version of history it then becomes "well since they did that then, of course they did this now." And you, dear readers, accept that. You take a theory, and use other theories to prove it.

That is why I respect this author, because he was able to effectively do just that... prove himself with no concrete proof at all, just old theories and propoganda, and the dear readers took it all in like it was all fact.

Much respect to this great illusionist and disinformer for he has one over all of us, myself at the top of the list.

Oh, I admire the effort and energy being directed at miscrediting the author of the article. It seems that one might suspect and accuse president Bush, the CIA, the FBI and even the pope of almost anything, from NWO activities to terrorist activities. But then there is an article about zionist activity, and suddenly the # hits the fan. It really makes me suspicious of the motives of those who so hard try to rip this article to pieces.

BTW, I know this person who is a specialist on faces and facial features. He says that there is no way the men on the two images are the same, unless Usama had a nose job done by a plastic surgent.

Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
Oh, I admire the effort and energy being directed at miscrediting the author of the article. It seems that one might suspect and accuse president Bush, the CIA, the FBI and even the pope of almost anything, from NWO activities to terrorist activities. But then there is an article about zionist activity, and suddenly the # hits the fan. It really makes me suspicious of the motives of those who so hard try to rip this article to pieces.

I'd be suspicious too. A man that puts that much energy into this just might not hate Jewish people, and that makes him untrustworty.

Originally posted by EyesOfTheFutureBTW, I know this person who is a specialist on faces and facial features. He says that there is no way the men on the two images are the same, unless Usama had a nose job done by a plastic surgent.

Brilliant. How about the rest of the article?

I'd be suspicious too. A man that puts that much energy into this just might not hate Jewish people, and that makes him untrustworty.

Well, he might hate jewish people, or he might just be suspicious of the zionist agenda. I don't know. All I know is that I don't trust fundamentalists, no matter what God they worship.

I am really starting to see what you mean Djarums. This guy obviously doesn't like Jewish people which absoloutely #ing sucks. Being so engrossed in what he was talking about I failed to notice somehow (fool) However, I still can't let go of alot of what he says and I do beleive that there is something not right about the whole thing, whether or not it was related to zionists, the American government or something else. . .

Originally posted by Seekerof
Whats hilarious is the amonut of time that invested in these type topics on 9/11. I would dare to challenge that there are probably already a quite extensive list of topics within ATS about 9/11 and the "ka'zillion" different aspects of it.....
How many more are we going to go through, within the 'almost' two years since 9/11, that cover a possible 'another' angle....geezus....that damn 'well' ought to be drying up pretty soon!

regards
seekerof

errrr....would you say the same to Roswell? And JFK?

for a long time osama become freedom fighter under the BIG CIA ORGAN.and so the millitary mode of learning is not the same as he can do like bombing the wtc with airplane it is not so easy to do the kind of work.it took a lenght of time.because america have a lot of place the terrorist could bombing but with less of ball by the CIA
and all his conspirator they just do the job at wtc.what a shame to the people of like this.
1.osama mabe learn about AK-47.
2.osama maybe learn about anti aircraft stinger
3.osama maybe learn some of camoflage
all of this knowledge if combine all together still you could not do what like the BIG CIA has done.
and now el-qaedah and taliban fighter really throw all out what they have in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN so we have no need to worry about that of course they can revenge to what the CIA has done it will be done in those country.

The question here is "what if it is true",he's not talking about all jews,just a certain radical segment of jews.
There are radical factions of all types of religions and people,get past the hate for those who hate so you can see and hear what they say or you may miss something when the blinders come down.
Judge not , forgive ,open your eyes and allow yourself to learn.
Or choose to be ignorant , sometimes the truth doesn't taste very good.
I have noticed that if something is said that is against a certain faith,people get really angry,I have also noticed that sometimes it is true.
Since WWII,it is taboo to say anything about jews in a bad light,somehow they have become perfect because of what happened in WWII,untouchable.Nobody worries about that with the American Indians,or Muslims,or Christians,why is that?.
I read the article,it was all verifiable just like the author said,so what if you think he's a jew hater,what if what he says is true?.

How exactly do you figure his references as
verifiable? Did you check each reference in it's entirety?, because there are several points made in each reference that would seem to call into question his "facts" or even contradict them. If you are going to say these references are fact because they are main stream press articles and therefore have credibility I urge you to consider this: If you are saying this man should be believed then you are saying the "official" explanation should not be believed. Yet the "offical" explanation was reported in the same "main stream press" ..so how can you say, with any degree of certainty, that one is correct and the other is false?

because an unknown, racially biased author says so?

yeah ,everybody,just keep wearing em,pretend everything is OK,refuse to look because a key word (bias) comes up,make that conditioning worth what those who invested in it paid.

I think it fairly obvious to anyone who actually read it that this person is trying to accomplish something. To call his points verifiable is insane. "So then those jewish boys were out there dancing and partying and taking pictures". Then the boys became ex army people, then they became Mossad agents. This is a compilation of anti-zionist writings and theories and nothing more. This paper is an opinion piece. He doesn't like jews or zionists. (Don't tell me he doesn't have a problem with Jews after his "side locked crazies" comment). I respect his right to dislike groups of people. Everyone is entitled to that. What neither you as readers or him as a writer are entitled to is to turn an opinion paper into historical fact. That's way out of bounds for any of us.

Sorry guys...not trying to start an argument. But please explain how "we" (or rather those who don't beleive this guy) have on blinders and yet you do not?

I once worked with a guy who was a religious freak. Church 3 times a week..swear it's true. After 9/11 he told me the only way that they (meaning muslim extremists) would ever "See the light" would be for them to give up the "false" faith in islam and muhammed and believe in the one true god jesus christ.

That is what he told me and all I could think is: "what an assclown, does he not realize that muslims feel the same way about their religion?"

So who is right? the muslims or the christians? which god is the true god? do you see my point?
Which truth is truth. Anyone can take a "fact" or "opinion" and make it support their point of view. How can we overcome "perception" and see the true reality?

Why do you take this "investigation" seriously as opposed to the "official" explanation. That is my question. If you say because "his facts are verifiable" then you must acknowledge that some "facts" of the
official explanation are also verifiable. So what makes you believe the more complicated conspiracy theory? Paranoia?

seriously, I';m just trying to undestand how you guys think...

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
The question here is "what if it is true",he's not talking about all jews,just a certain radical segment of jews.

So it�s only a certain radical segment of Jews you need to worry about, yet authors like this take the actions of any Jew as proof? The author here has taken five kids who were arrested for being at the wrong place at the wrong time, and spun it into a conspiracy, apparently forgetting that in two years, these kids haven�t been found guilty of anything.

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
I have noticed that if something is said that is against a certain faith,people get really angry,I have also noticed that sometimes it is true.

What religion is that? I can�t think of any religion you can criticize without getting someone angry. Christianity? Islam? Mormonism? Buddhism?

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
Since WWII,it is taboo to say anything about jews in a bad light,somehow they have become perfect because of what happened in WWII,untouchable.

That�s BS. I don�t see anybody saying, �Don�t criticize the Jews because of WWII.� I don�t see anybody saying Jews are perfect. What I do see is people like you putting forth this twisted logic that somehow suggests that because of WWII, because there was attempted genocide, we should open our minds to anti-Jewish conspiracy theory.

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
Nobody worries about that with the American Indians,or Muslims,or Christians,why is that?.

You don�t get out much, do you? You don�t remember after 9/11 the religious and political leaders speaking out against anti-Arab violence within the United States? You don�t remember President Bush describing Islam as a religion of peace? You don�t remember the news media focusing in on anti-Arabic hate crimes?

Originally posted by DeepShiznit
Sorry guys...not trying to start an argument. But please explain how "we" (or rather those who don't beleive this guy) have on blinders and yet you do not?

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, however this is a forum dealing with conspiracy theories, and I believe everything is up for debate and questioning.

This article isn't necessarily "true" in the sense that the author reaches a correct conclusion - but in my opinion, the "truth" we've all been served just doesn't smell or taste right.

The zionists could very well have been behind this. They have the motive, the resources and the knowledge to pull something like this off. The same goes of course for Bin Laden and the Al Quaida.

Be it as it may, but I'm convinced of one thing - that it isn't Usama Bin Laden on that picture to the left.

So, where does this leave us? Well, obviously in a position where we are free to speculate - and free to distrust the intentions and motives of the people responsible for feeding us false information.

His references to Jews starting world war 2 are suspect, that much I see.

But I fail to see how he is biased against all Jews. His article is specifically targeting a group of them, the racist radical elements.

By the way, the israelis were arrested doing this very same thing.

abcnews.go.com...

SWo yes, Israelis WERE arrested, the FBI was concerned about them enough to investigate, thier behavior was strange and disturbing enough that the Feds were worried about the whole thing.

Thier comments were pretty wierd too. "We are not your problem, the Palestinians are"? They were laughing and celebrating? Sorry, but 65% of Americans polled said they cried on that day. Hell, even people around the world cried, even in the middle east because it was such a ruthless attack. But these guys were partying.

Sorry folks, it dont hold water.

Given the other evidence of that day, the likelyhood of israeli/US joint involvement in the attacks seems C=VERY likely.

Much more likely that a caveman arab with kidney disease having the major role in it.

"In the video, bin Laden says: "The Twin Towers were legitimate targets, they were supporting US economic power. These events were great by all measurement. What was destroyed were not only the towers, but the towers of morale in that country."

The hijackers were "blessed by Allah to destroy America's economic and military landmarks". He freely admits to being behind the attacks: "If avenging the killing of our people is terrorism then history should be a witness that we are terrorists. Yes, we kill their innocents and this is legal religiously and logically."

In a contradictory section, however, bin Laden justifies killing the occupants of the Twin Towers because they were not civilians - Islam forbids the killing of innocent civilians even in a holy war.

He says: "The towers were supposed to be filled with supporters of the economical powers of the United States who are abusing the world. Those who talk about civilians should change their stand and reconsider their position. We are treating them like they treated us."

Bin Laden goes on to justify his entire terror campaign. "There are two types of terror, good and bad. What we are practising is good terror. We will not stop killing them and whoever supports them."

He directly threatens the lives of President Bush and Mr Blair. "Bush and Blair don't understand anything but the power of force. Every time they kill us, we kill them, so the balance of terror can be achieved." He also calls on all Muslims to join him. "It is the duty of every Muslim to fight. Killing Jews is top priority.""


www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml



"If avenging the killing of our people is terrorism then history should be a witness that we are terrorists. Yes, we kill their innocents and this is legal religiously and logically."


"The towers were supposed to be filled with supporters of the economical powers of the United States who are abusing the world. Those who talk about civilians should change their stand and reconsider their position. We are treating them like they treated us."

This is a joke, all those years of planning, Bin Laden finally scores a victory over the US, and that is the best he can come up with.

We all have noticed the way terror/terrorist/terrorism is being used to justify governments doing anything, funny how the language Bin Laden uses in his admission "we are terrorists", when would a real terrorist and not a fictional one, ever say an illogical thing like that. He played right into their hand

Wake up people, i think muslims have suffered more since 9/11 certainly than they would have if the attacks had not occured. Bin Laden is a spiritual leader, not a complete idiot. If Bin Laden had ordered the attacks, he would be dead, they would have nuked those mountains on the Afghan Pakistan border if they couldn't capture him straight away, purely out of fear of what he might do next.



"we are terrorists...we kill their innocents"
gimme a break!

Religious people find it easy to believe OBL is guilty because they see him as satanic, with language like that, it is difficult not to hate Bin Laden whoever you are, so why did he make such a rubbish statement? Seriously, if he had actually gone into detail about history and given real reasons he would have found more support in the Arab world, so why didn't he, the world was now watching and Bin Laden choked. The simple answer is that Bin laden didn't admit anything and is probably dead now, the video was a fake, the Taliban were growing stronger in Afghanistan, wouldn't co-operate fully with the US, and September 11th kick started the middle eastern shake up that we are now seeing.



Skadi is correct, don't trust the Government, any of them.


www.guardian.co.uk...

www.americanfreepress.net...

www.abc.net.au...

www.globalresearch.ca...

www.public-action.com...

www.bushwatch.org...

emperors-clothes.com...

Some links exposing the questionable ties and little white lies.

Peace, you mention the fact that Islam prohibits the killing of innocent civilians. Please understand that the extremist groups we are discussing do not follow many aspects of what their own faith says.

The extremist groups also seem to be able to change the status of anyone living in the US or Israel from "civilian" to "infidel" and thereby justifying blowing up regular citizens on buses, in hotels and what not.

You are correct that Islam prohibits this. You are wrong in thinking Al-Qaeda, Hamas et al give a damn about that.

Once again, in the ABC article you posted we see this story about the 5 kids in the van. Once again no one disputes the story that 5 people were taking pictures and were Israeli. Once again the only person saying they were happy about it is a "Maria" who apparently saw them smiling and laughing, but by this account saw it through binoculars. Very interesting.

If they were indeed Israeli operatives, which neither government will verify, but all sorts of reporters will verify (apparently reporters are the new respected intelligence agency), then what... then we once again understand that every country with an intelligence agency has people stationed in other countries. Big deal.

I personally might be inclined to believe that they were working for the Israelis, but to base a conspiracy theory on one anonymous woman's view through binoculars of people in a parking lot, give it a rest.

For some reason it's a priority task for many people to think that Israel blew up the towers. If it makes you happy, go ahead. We would never want to blame such an occurance on extremist Muslims who have shown themselves capable of things like this in Kenya, in Israel, in Chechnya etc etc. No no no, they would never do something like this. There has to be an ulterior motive.

Originally posted by Djarums
If they were indeed Israeli operatives, which neither government will verify, but all sorts of reporters will verify (apparently reporters are the new respected intelligence agency), then what... then we once again understand that every country with an intelligence agency has people stationed in other countries. Big deal.

One of the great things about this type of propaganda is that it puts the debunker in the position of trying to prove a negative, which is really hard. It�s easy to fling around innuendo, much harder to �prove� it�s insubstantial.

But what if you turn the question around? What if you assume, for the sake of argument, that these kids were Israeli agents and that they were somehow involved in 9/11. What then?

Well, the first question that comes to my mind is if they were involved, what was their roll? What part did they play?

I can�t think of a plausible answer to that. The planes didn�t come from New York, so they couldn�t have had anything to do with getting the terrorists on board. They had box-cutters, but no way to get them on the planes. There was never any connection established between these young men and the terrorists, so it�s not likely they provided any support.

So what was their job?

writen by : Dr Albert D.Pastore Phd.

anyone have info?