NEWS: State of Hawaii Caps Gasoline Prices

The U.S. State of Hawaii announced plans to cap wholesale gasoline prices, with the price of a gallon limited to about $2.16 in Honolulu. Hawaii has the highest average retail price of gasoline in the nation, with prices in Maui rising over $3 a gallon. This is the first such price cap implemented in the United States.



This is an interesting development in the recent energy crisis. I'm sure many state governments will be looking to Hawaii's experiment to see if it actually helps solve high gas prices or just causes a gas shortage due to petroleum companies deciding to sell their product elsewhere.

I really don't think that the current situation can be called an energy crisis. Bottled water is still more expensive than gasoline, and there is no shortage of gasoline, its simply that the price is due because of the market. Thats not a "crisis" really.

I think its interesting that they are making the suppliers of gas take a loss in profit, but that the state is still taking a tax on it.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I really don't think that the current situation can be called an energy crisis. Bottled water is still more expensive than gasoline, and there is no shortage of gasoline, its simply that the price is due because of the market. Thats not a "crisis" really.

I agree, it is not really a crisis nor is there a shortage. The current spike is due to fears the supply of oil may be effected if Tropical Storm Katrina may affect wells in the Gulf of Mexico.

As for the price of water that is a big laugh, the only reason it is that high is because people are foolish enough to pay those high prices. If pepole would stop buying it at those prices the price would drop in a minute.

I agree shots. I recall being in a class long ago where the teacher was aying that gas in saudi arabia is cheaper than water, there's lots of gas available, but little water, and thinking 'gosh thats just whack'. Now we've got evian, poland springs, etc etc. What used to come outta the tap is now sold in expensive little bottles.

Heck, at least they used to call it Mineral Water, that sounds like something, and at least some of them used to carbonate it and call it 'sparkling water'.

I actually saw a really expensive bottled water just the other day, in glass bottles too, not cheap plastic, claiming to be 'prefered' by wine tasters implying that you should use this water especially if you are having wine tasting get together, and then they even wrote 'Natural Artesian Water".

That just means it comes from underground!

Originally posted by Nygdan
I really don't think that the current situation can be called an energy crisis. Bottled water is still more expensive than gasoline, and there is no shortage of gasoline, its simply that the price is due because of the market. Thats not a "crisis" really.

I think its interesting that they are making the suppliers of gas take a loss in profit, but that the state is still taking a tax on it.

I can walk over to Wal-Mart and get a gallon of bottled water for $.99 Gas is closing in on 3x the price of water. Sorry to correct you, but you're wrong.

But in the end, none of the oil barons are spending any more to draw crude out of the ground, so why are prices more than double what they were just 2-3 years ago?

I smells greed, and that shyte stinketh.

[edit on 8-25-2005 by Loki]

I think its interesting that they are making the suppliers of gas take a loss in profit, but that the state is still taking a tax on it.

True, but hopefully the money raised through the taxes are being used for betterment of the community, not to line someones wallet.

Personally, I like this idea. The price of gasoline is frustrating to say the least.

Originally posted by Loki
I can walk over to Wal-Mart and get a gallon of bottled water for $.99 Gas is closing in on 3x the price of water. Sorry to correct you, but you're wrong.

Evian water, $1.49 /9 oz, $21.19 per gallon cite
and here's a great one:
Lipton Ice Tea $1.19/16 oz $9.52 per gallon .

Ice tea, which is water, with lots of other stuff in it, is cheaper than bottled water! ITS ALMOST ENTIRELY WATER!

But in the end, none of the oil barons are spending any more to draw crude out of the ground, so why are prices more than double what they were just 2-3 years ago?

The market. The current price of oil is relatively high because of the market, not because of shortages, not because of peak oil, and not because of a slow-down in recovery. Its simply a market effect.

Originally posted by Nygdan


Evian water, $1.49 /9 oz, $21.19 per gallon cite
and here's a great one:
Lipton Ice Tea $1.19/16 oz $9.52 per gallon .

Ice tea, which is water, with lots of other stuff in it, is cheaper than bottled water! ITS ALMOST ENTIRELY WATER!

Lets all agree the overal price of water out prices gas except when you buy it by the gallon, I can get it for 59 cents at a grocery store here if I have my own container. But that is not the norm. Most people buy it in smaller bottles at 2.00 a bottle for Evian here, so here the cost is even higher, but lets not jack DJs thread by getting off topic.

For those in doubt about bottle water read this and you will see you are only buying the marketing hype nothing more.
[edit on 8/25/2005 by shots]

[edit on 8/25/2005 by shots]

What throws me for a loop is the fact that the price go's up on speculation. THen the price goes up at the pump within hours, but it takes days for it to drop when the price of a barrel goes down.

I not quite sure why more people are not upset at the price gouging. Oil company's are making record profits. That should tell us something.

How long will it be before goverment does something to stablize the prices?

Its not price gouging. Price gouging is where you charge a hundred bucks for water when there is a regional water shortage or something. This is simply the market controlling the price of a particuar commodity, which in this case is simply oil.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Its not price gouging. Price gouging is where you charge a hundred bucks for water when there is a regional water shortage or something. This is simply the market controlling the price of a particuar commodity, which in this case is simply oil.

I disagree to a point. They certainly are taking advantage of the situation and this is a type of gouging is it not?

Also using the term gouging is not really correct since it is slang for swindle. I think overpricing would be a more appropriate term, but that is just MHO.

Originally posted by Racer5
How long will it be before goverment does something to stablize the prices?

In Hawaii it starts September 1st.

I think this experiment will be followed by every other state and hopefully by many citizens. It would be far more likely to see other state governments taking steps in this nature then it would be to see the federal government take any action.

I think everyone makes good points, but the one thing that I haven't seen or brought up myself is: Is this even legal? We live in a capitalist free-market nation, so can a State impose price controls on a commodity like this? Maybe the federal Congress could, since it is specifically given the authority to regulate commerce by the Constitution, but I'm not sure if this act by Hawaii is legally kosher...I'm sure the legal teams of the petroleum corporations will fight it in the courts if they think they can.

If they are allowed to do this, then either they will be cut off, or the rest of the country will have to make up the difference. And if we drank a gallon of water every 30 minutes, only then we can compare beverages to gas.

What I don't get is it costs less to make a gallon of gas now then it did 4 years ago, so wth is up with the prices? Exxon(I think) made 12billion PROFIT in ONE QUARTER!!! That is 3 months! They are making more money in one quarter then they did in one year under Clinton! It is gouging the people and Hawaii of all places is the first to step up and stop it.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I think everyone makes good points, but the one thing that I haven't seen or brought up myself is: Is this even legal?

I believe it is legal DJ back in 1973 the US Government used price controls, that being the case; I can see no reason why one state can do the same now.

When the U.S. government set maximum prices for gasoline in 1973 and 1979, dealers sold gas on a first-come-first-served basis, and drivers got a little taste of what life was like for people in the Soviet Union: they had to wait in long lines to buy gas. The true price of gas, which included both the cash paid and the time spent waiting in line, was often higher than if prices were not controlled at all. At one time in 1979, for example, the U.S. government fixed the price of gasoline at about $1.00 per gallon. If the market price would have been $1.20, a driver who bought ten gallons apparently saved $.20 per gallon, or $2.00. But if the driver had to line up for thirty minutes to buy gas, and if her time was worth $8.00 per hour, the real cost to her was $10.00 for the gas and $4.00 for the time, an overall cost of $1.40 per gallon. Some gas, of course, was held for friends, long-time customers, the politically well-connected, or those who were willing to pay a little cash on the side.
Price controls

A little more research came up with this fact; this came about as a result of a new state law, therefore it would be legal unless of course it violates some part of the consititution.

Also this price cap is a result of a new state law that goes into effect on Sept 1 in hawaii.
Source

I also think that California used a similar cap in the utility industry a while back, but I will not swear to it and I do not have the time to research it right now.

In my opinion, we shouldn't be wasting valuable tax subsidies on such a wasteful and polluting resource. Especially when Hawaii is out in the middle of the worlds biggest power supply (Pacific Ocean) and hydrogen car research has gotten to the point where there are 100% H2 cars availiable. Hawaii has plenty of people that can easily afford a whole garage of these cars so why can't they put their money to better use and invest in the future by building the beginnings of infrastructure to support this? Or at the least using the tax money for research purposes. While I thik Hawaii is cool and all I sure don't want to be helping them get cheaper gas. I can see it now, the Oil giants will be screaming at congress for this and raising prices even more because of "futures speculation"!

the price cap sounds like a good idea but I think their law is flawed. what stuck in my mind is the word "wholesale" kept popping up. seems like this could just be setting up the local retailers to make record profits instead of the oil barons. that would be the lesser of evils I suppose but it just doesnt sound like this law is doing much for the consumer.

water vs. gas issue: I buy cases of water weekly. a 24 count case of 20 oz bottles for $2.50. thats 3.75 gallons for 19 cents cheaper than one gallon of gas. I use no telling how many hundreds of gallons of water a month in my home. my water bill is never over $15 a month. I'd say unless youre an idiot who spends $2 for a 20oz bottle of "designer" water this argument holds no water

Part of the price hike for gasoline is seasonal (summer vacation), so prices should begin to drop a bit after Labor Day. It has never been this high, though - $68.00/barrel.

Opec is putting the squeeze on the market. No doubt about it.

Originally posted by Racer5
What throws me for a loop is the fact that the price go's up on speculation. THen the price goes up at the pump within hours, but it takes days for it to drop when the price of a barrel goes down.

I've never understood this. The oil being traded today is not going to see its way to the pump for a long time. So, how do the companies rationalize raising prices on futures????


As far as gas taxes go, I doubt that all of those tax dollars are bing wisely used. Michigan roads don't seem to be benefitting much from gas taxes. If memory serves, we pay more in gas taxes than we get in dollars sent back to the state. Maybe we should have state gas taxes and NOT federal gas taxes.