The Genesis Account...

This is a thread that will give an explanation on creation and how science can explain many of its theories. Please read the entire post to better understand it. thanks

The first thing that I must point out is that the God of the bible (the God I worship) is not limited by anything, he has no limits. He is all powerful and all knowing. He is everywhere and nowhere. God is eternal meaning, he is not limited by time, space, or matter or anything else (if there is anything else that could be a limiting factor).
I may not ever be able to understand the greatness of my heavenly father, but if the infinite God could fit in my two-pound brain, he wouldnt be worth worshipping.
Note: the word UNIVERSE comes from two latin words, the word UNI- meaning single, and word VERSE- spoken sentence. We live in a "single spoken sentence". The Bible says; "God said let there be... and it was very good".

DAY 1

Genesis 1:1 In the Beginning (time), God created the heaven (space) and the earth (matter).
-Time, Space and Matter have to come into existance all at the same time. The bible gives a great explanation as to how TS&M come into existance. Naturally this is impossible.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
-The earth started out under water. unformed and unfilled. it simply is not done yet.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
-Notice that he did not make a light source. he made light itself.
Cross-Reference: Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Genesis 1:5 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
-within the first day, God created Time, space and matter. he also made light (possibly the entire electromagnetic spectrum, being that light is a part of it).

DAY 2

Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
-Most people interpret the "firmament" as dirt, because the dirt does divide that waters from the waters. (the idea of continents dividing waters) read down to verse 7.

Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
-Now we know according to the bible that there was either water above and below the crust of the earth, of there used to be water above and below the atmostphere, or possibly both, lets keep reading.

Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
-The bible often refers to three heavens. this heaven is refering to the atmosphere. refer to verse 20 to get a better definition of firmament.

DAY 3

Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.
-Apparently the land came after the oceans.

Genesis 1:10 And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
-God made the plants on the third day, notice that they are not things that have life. also notice that it says that they will bring forth after his kind not species.

Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
-on the third day, God made plants. in the biblical sense, plants are not alive.

DAY 4

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
-day four is when the sun, moon and stars were created. they were for signs for years and days for man. they werent for God. he doesnt need signs, he already knows.

Genesis 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
-the light was already visible to earth before day 5. this was not because of millions of years, it was because God made the light already visible to earth.

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
-Greater light (sun) and the lesser light (the moon)

Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
-Again here we see that the light was already visible to earth.

Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.

Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
-on the fourth day, God made the sun moon and stars. the earth was made before anything else in this universe.

DAY 5

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath LIFE, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
- Here, God made the living things. back on day three, he made plants which are not living.

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every LIVING creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
-notice again that it says KIND and not SPECIES. and the creatures that God made on this day were the ones from the water, not the land dwelling animals.

Genesis 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

DAY 6

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
-After his KIND not SPECIES.

Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
- on this day God made the land-dwelling animals.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
- "let us..." refer to John 1:1. Us is refering to the trinity. God was basically talking to himself. but since God is three: the father, the word (Jesus) and the holy spirit.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
-Man is an image of God.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
-the word replenish has two meanings- to fill, and to re-fill. obviously the earth wasnt full yet, so it meant to fill.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
- God said to eat the fruit/herb and seed. Man was not allowed to eat the flesh of animals yet.

Genesis 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.
- again, here we see that it is only man and animals that have life. plants to not have life.

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
-notice that everything was very good. this means that Lucifer could not have fallen before this day. if he had fallen before this day, everything would not be very good.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
-Everything was finished. everything in all three heavens were finished.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Geneiss 2:4 These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
-this is called a teledoth. "These [are] the generations of" is a key-phrase. this tells who wrote each part of Genesis.

Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground.

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

The rest of chapter two is a re-cap of day six when God created man.

EC

Ok....how is science explaining this??????? I see no explanations..Please help me her...I wish to understand the views of my adversaries. (Allows for intelligent debate) Also, be aware that I will not tolerate petty insults and childish behavior. Treat me respectfully and I'll do likewise.

Ok....how is science explaining this??????? I see no explanations..Please help me her...I wish to understand the views of my adversaries. (Allows for intelligent debate) Also, be aware that I will not tolerate petty insults and childish behavior. Treat me respectfully and I'll do likewise.

cool man. its good to see that you are interested in this topic. notice that the title of this thread is "The Gensis Account" not just the first few chapters. I will also be refering to many other books of the bible in support of Genesis.
im not sure if you read the entire post, Im not trying to call you a liar, but you replied within like 2 minutes. im trusting you did read the whole thing.

I think that the Genesis account (along with the rest of the bible) gives the best explanation of how the earth along with the rest of the universe was created.

the big bang theory along with the evolution theory does not give a very good explanation as to how everything came to be. in fact its not physically or logically possible.

My Beliefs are based on the bible, science and logic.

and I have no intent to insult you or make childish remarks. so if I ever offend you, its probably out of frustration and not deliberate.

EC


[edit on 14-8-2005 by Evolution Cruncher]

Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
the big bang theory along with the evolution theory does not give a very good explanation as to how everything came to be. in fact its not physically or logically possible.

My Beliefs are based on the bible, science and logic.

In that case.. seeing as how you've alread provided the bible part.. you provide the logical.. and provide the scientific evidence that does not contradict all the other [credible and generally accepted] scientific evidence.


[edit on 14-8-2005 by riley]

Ok...first I'm not trying to insult you or anything negative. That said, I ask simply....how can you place all your confidence in a book(bible) of questional authorship and questional composition date. Don't get me wrong, I'm a staunch agnostic, but i do believe that some of the ideas presented in the bible are exceptional for use by our species in interacting with each other. In that capacity, I give credit to it there. However that it ishould be interpreted literally I find highly dubious.

So the point is, we read this then suddenly realise that all those scientists and fossils and genetics and billions of years of history are all lies and the bible is truth?

What is the point of this? Just reading a 1600 year old work of fiction isnt going to change peoples minds.

That said, I ask simply....how can you place all your confidence in a book(bible) of questional authorship and questional composition date.

I get what you are saying, but lets just use that logic in a different sense or situation.
how do we know that George Washington ever existed? we rely on the eye wittness accounts. Just like I rely on the eye wittness accounts in the bible. I tried to explain the "teledoth" but im not sure I explained to well enough.

In that case.. seeing as how you've alread provided the bible part.. you provide the logical.. and provide the scientific evidence that does not contradict all the other [credible and generally accepted] scientific evidence.

riley im not too sure at what you are trying to get at, but just because a theory is generally accepted by the majority does not make it fact. there are numerous plasces in history and even in the bible where the majority was wrong.
it used to be taught that all the planets and the sun went around the earth. now we know that all the planets go around the sun.

it used to be taught that if you are sick, youhave bad blood and you had to get your blood taken out. the barber was the blood letter.

it used to be taught that big rocks fall faster than little rocks (although I disagree with the theory that they dont.)

just because things are accepted by the majority, does make it truth. all I want to do is expose truth along with error.

So the point is, we read this then suddenly realise that all those scientists and fossils and genetics and billions of years of history are all lies and the bible is truth?

What is the point of this? Just reading a 1600 year old work of fiction isnt going to change peoples minds.

uncle joe, no offense, but you seem like a person who isnt really open to new ideas. im not saying that just the words in a book are going to change your life. and the bible is older than 1600 years old, if you mean that it was put together 1600 years ago, I wouldnt disagree. it probably was. but the first account of genesis was written shortly after the creation. which was, according to the bible, 6,000 years ago.

fossils? what can you learn from fossils? only that it died and that its in a certain layer. thats about it. you can tell what kind of animal it was (maybe) but you cant tell if it had any kids. and you cant prove that it had different kids.

Genetics? you can learn a lot about genetics. but genetics and origins, you cant tell when the first gene formed. and you cant prove that bacteria can ultimately turnn into a human over billions of years.

there is not billions of years of history. there is no more than 6,000 years of history. the chinese language is no older than 6,000 years old.

there are many legends of a great flood that covered the entire earth. many of these flood legends are paralell to the bible, the onyl difference is the names used.
there are many legends of a golden age where people lives to be nearly 1,000.

I wouldnt go with the majority opinion as my line of facts. it doesnt always give you truth.

EC

Cruncher i really dont see how you justify 'the earth is only 6000 years old' on the basis of a collection of myths and legends.

I like to think i keep an open mind, but also enjoy the presentation of evidence. Scripture and beleif dont count as proof on their own.

How is the bible a more valid source of knowledge than say Gilgamesh?

How is the bible a more valid source of knowledge than say Gilgamesh?

how is it not?

gilgamesh lived 2500 BC.
noahs flood was between 2800 and 2900 years BC.

both dates dont match up for the flood.
both stories are similiar but some details are incorrect on the gilgamesh side.
the gilgamesh story says that noahs ark was a square. which would not work, first off, it wont float very well and the demensions were specific. it was a rectangular object.

what was your point?


EC

Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
He is all powerful and all knowing.

God can't be all powerful, for example he can't make a rock so heavy that God himself couldn't lift it, so that means he can't do something. Further, even if God is all powerful, he cannot be all good, since if he is both all good and all powerful that should logically imply for him to put an end to all evil in this world. Further, God doesn't seem to be all knowing, as then he would have known that Adam would eat the apple even before Adam ate it, while in the bible it says he only found out after they admitted it to him. God also seems not to be omnipresent, as it is apparently possible to hide from his presence.


They heard God, our Lord walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees in the garden. The Lord God called to Adam and said, “Where art thou”. Adam replied, “I heard thy voice in the garden and I was afraid, and I was naked, and I hid myself.” God said, “Who told thee that thou was naked. Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat”? Adam replied to God, “The woman that thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.” And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that thou hast done?”

Originally posted by Evolution Cruncher
how do we know that George Washington ever existed? we rely on the eye wittness accounts. Just like I rely on the eye wittness accounts in the bible.

Apart from the latters of the apostles - except Paulus, he never met Jesus - NOTHING in the bible is an eyewitness account.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Simon666]

Further, even if God is all powerful, he cannot be all good, since if he is both all good and all powerful that should logically imply for him to put an end to all evil in this world.

that part hasnt come yet, if that is what you are trying to get at.

God doesn't seem to be all knowing, as then he would have known that Adam would eat the apple even before Adam ate it, while in the bible it says he only found out after they admitted it to him. God also seems not to be omnipresent, as it is apparently possible to hide from his presence.

from what they could see as teh presence of God, they hid themselves from. most questions in the bible are not meant for an answer to be given to God becuase he didnt know. they are given to either convict or adjust ones attitude. he knew what adam did, but he asked anyway, how would adam have free will if God came down and told him what he did? it wouldnt mke sense.

Apart from the latters of the apostles - except Paulus, he never met Jesus - NOTHING in the bible is an eyewitness account.

do you know that for a fact? are you 100% sure that nothing in the bible was witnessed?

EC

Originally posted by Simon666

Further, God doesn't seem to be all knowing, as then he would have known that Adam would eat the apple even before Adam ate it, while in the bible it says he only found out after they admitted it to him.

They heard God, our Lord walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees in the garden. The Lord God called to Adam and said, “Where art thou”. Adam replied, “I heard thy voice in the garden and I was afraid, and I was naked, and I hid myself.” God said, “Who told thee that thou was naked. Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat”? Adam replied to God, “The woman that thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.” And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that thou hast done?”

Simon I think you answered your own question about God being all knowing.....Adam and Eve admitted it to Him after He asked them if they had done it.

He already knew he was just trying to get them to admit what they did.

And he did know Adam and Eve were gonna eat the apple because God is omniscient.....He already had the plan that Jesus would come to the earth and be the way into heaven

In that case you provide more arguments against an all powerful and all good God as he clearly made human with flaws and inherent evil traits knowingly.

Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
And he did know Adam and Eve were gonna eat the apple because God is omniscient.....He already had the plan that Jesus would come to the earth and be the way into heaven

Nice of him to already plan the death of his own son for the faults in mankind, faults he knowingly created and knowing of the evil effects. I wouldn't want Him as father.

Originally posted by EvolutionCruncher
do you know that for a fact? are you 100% sure that nothing in the bible was witnessed?

Do a search on when the Old Testament was written for example. Further, you do realize the difference between an eyewitness account of an event and oral tradition, do you?

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Simon666]

In that case you provide more arguments against an all powerful and all good God as he clearly made human with flaws and inherent evil traits knowingly.

that isd you making that judgement, not me. If God didnt give us free will, what would be the point of life?

Nice of him to already plan the death of his own son for the faults in mankind, faults he knowingly created and knowing of the evil effects. I wouldn't want Him as father.

Jesus came down at his own free will. and he died at his will, doing the will of his father.

Do a search on when the Old Testament was written for example. Further, you do realize the difference between an eyewitness account of an event and oral tradition, do you?

In that case you provide more arguments against an all powerful and all good God as he clearly made human with flaws and inherent evil traits knowingly.

that isd you making that judgement, not me. If God didnt give us free will, what would be the point of life?

Nice of him to already plan the death of his own son for the faults in mankind, faults he knowingly created and knowing of the evil effects. I wouldn't want Him as father.

Jesus came down at his own free will. and he died at his will, doing the will of his father.

Do a search on when the Old Testament was written for example. Further, you do realize the difference between an eyewitness account of an event and oral tradition, do you?

In that case you provide more arguments against an all powerful and all good God as he clearly made human with flaws and inherent evil traits knowingly.

that isd you making that judgement, not me. If God didnt give us free will, what would be the point of life?

Nice of him to already plan the death of his own son for the faults in mankind, faults he knowingly created and knowing of the evil effects. I wouldn't want Him as father.

Jesus came down at his own free will. and he died at his will, doing the will of his father.

Do a search on when the Old Testament was written for example. Further, you do realize the difference between an eyewitness account of an event and oral tradition, do you?

In that case you provide more arguments against an all powerful and all good God as he clearly made human with flaws and inherent evil traits knowingly.

that isd you making that judgement, not me. If God didnt give us free will, what would be the point of life?

Nice of him to already plan the death of his own son for the faults in mankind, faults he knowingly created and knowing of the evil effects. I wouldn't want Him as father.

Jesus came down at his own free will. and he died at his will, doing the will of his father.

Do a search on when the Old Testament was written for example. Further, you do realize the difference between an eyewitness account of an event and oral tradition, do you?

have you researched the hebrew word teledoth which is proof that the bible was written by eye witness accounts, along with oral tradition?

EC

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Evolution Cruncher]

No one should make any judgement on each other, I say calm and let people do what they going to do.

God can't be all powerful, for example he can't make a rock so heavy that God himself couldn't lift it, so that means he can't do something. Further, even if God is all powerful, he cannot be all good, since if he is both all good and all powerful that should logically imply for him to put an end to all evil in this world. Further, God doesn't seem to be all knowing, as then he would have known that Adam would eat the apple even before Adam ate it, while in the bible it says he only found out after they admitted it to him. God also seems not to be omnipresent, as it is apparently possible to hide from his presence.

Yes God did know about the FALL of adam and Eve.......He gave them free will...He did not create ROBOTS...but Created man in the image of God....

"Let Us make man in Our own image, after Our own likeness" (Gen 1:26).

The hid because they became all knowing.......OF GOOD AND BAD......since they broke the ONE LAW of Gods commandement they felt shame/whence before they did not!

Nice of him to already plan the death of his own son for the faults in mankind, faults he knowingly created and knowing of the evil effects. I wouldn't want Him as father.

God took upon Himself the SIN of man.....He took flesh(human nature) and became the SON OF GOD......He did not have to do this......but loved the people He created.......faults and all.....

In Paradise all kinds of trees with the most beautiful fruit grew; among them there were two special trees: one was called the tree of life, the other the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Tasting of the fruits of the tree of life had the power to preserve man from illness and death. Concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, God commanded man: "of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shall not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen 2:16-17)

3. How God Created the First People.

Eating from the tree of Knowledge of good and evil ....their eyes were opened and human nature changed.......Since what God created was good, the fall of Adam and Eve changed this......their own FREE WILL allowed this to happen......And God did not destroy them and start over, because I guess, the same would have occured......God allowed man this knowledge of good and evil(ability to do good or bad....OWN choice)......The Angels were created with the same knowledgeof good and evil(as the Father,Son and Holy Spirit).......Lucifer as was his name before he wanted to exalt himself above all things became Satan/Devil.......and understood that he too had free will to choose good or evil, he chose to do evil.......God replaced the fallen angels with man .....He gave them all that was needed and gave them ONE commandement.....If you do eat,you shall surely die..DEATH OF THE FLESH occured and nature as it was created changed with the fall......
Man caused this not God......the Free will of man ....

see also ....4. The Life of the First People in Paradise..same link as above


IX
helen

Helen, in regards to Genesis 1:26 in your post, who is speaking here? Who is "Us" ? If the Bible is to be taken literally, and this is God speaking, and God is the Creator, why are there 2 ours and an us in that verse?




Edited to remove extra funky quote marks lol

[edit on 21-8-2005 by Star of Curiosity]

[edit on 21-8-2005 by Star of Curiosity]