Leave Iraq Now

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Logic dictates leaving Iraq now.

Over Two years after the war was supposed to be ended what exists in Iraq?

Chaos.

The much vaunted democracy or Federation or anything resembling a stable government has failed to emerge.

The current leadership has missed every single opportunity of assisting in this end.

Time has passed. Those moments are now gone.

The US effort their is a joke.

Set aside poor planning and ridiculous expectations,
the current leadership didn't adapt quickly or aggressively to engage Iraqis in the cause of their own nation building.

There is no connection with the Iraqi people.
The Iraqi people are the ones who will either be able to make some kind of stable government work or not.
More meddling by incompetent and uncaring US interests won't help.

What is it exactly we are supposed to be producing in Iraq?
The people of Iraq didn't ask us to invade.

There is no tangible productive result of the Iraq invasion.
There is no realistically tangible goal in Iraq that our being there will produce.

Stop the maddness.

STOP putting an American's face and ID on the inevitable violence in Iraq.

Quit squandering US dollars and lives for Haliburton's sake.

Bring the Men and Women home.
Bring the money home.
Bring sanity home.
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The US had to choose between two options back in 2003

1) intervene and assume their intervention ==> stand till the job is done entirely

2)not intervene and spend all that money in things more useful than an illegal war against a country that was no threat to the US. Bush spreaks about protecting the US... North Korea was a much greater threat than Iraq.




Now that the boys are in Iraq, they have to stay, leaving Iraq would be a terrible signal. It would be a victory for the Iraqi resistance but also for Al Qaeda.

remember Afghanistan... the Russians left and their departure was felt by the mujahideens as a victory.

I agree with you, slank, 100%. We should have left long ago. Whatever happens in our wake won't be as bad as what happens if we stay.

I have high hopes that the public anti-(Iraq) war movement has begun in earnest with Cindy Sheehan in Crawford Texas. She is creating quite a stir and getting more publicity every day.

I urge people to contribute in any way they can to her cause. I think (and hope) this might be the beginning of the end.

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by slank
Bring the Men and Women home.
Bring the money home.
Bring sanity home.

Bring the oil home.
Bring the oil home.
Bring the oil home.

The (poor) Iraq is invaded for :-

1) Oil

2) Geopolitical dominant

3) to ensure long term survivability of Isreal

This is how the Bush Administration + rest of the World sees it, the American citizen has different opinion though.

Originally posted by betaiso
the American citizen has different opinion though.

The American citizen is not of one mind. We are more divided than we've ever been. Some feel one way and the rest see another.

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

I think we should leave also the way things are going now, nothing is getting done because they are fighting the war to make the Politicaly Correct asshats happy, The war can never be won this way.

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What exists now.
Chaos.

What will exist once we leave?
Chaos.

No net change.

It will allow whatever self-organizing forces in Iraq to emerge and we will not be standing in our inept way holding it back.

Will it be our fantasy of some Western Democracy?
No.
Will it be something we find troubling and not to our liking?
Almost certainly.
Reality is the thing adults learn to live with.
Unrealistic fantasies are for children.
The sooner we leave the sooner in time, some years down the road that we can try to make some kind of connection with whatever forces emerge in Iraq.

The longer we wait the longer we prevent the natural center of gravity in Iraq to find itself.

Iraqis will make of their nation what they will.
Will it be the best for most Iraqis?
unknown.
Will it be civil war?
very possibly.
But having broken the pot there is no going back to a cohesive Iraq unless the Iraqi people want it to be so.

It is senseless for more Iraqi [and American] blood to be spilt and blamed on the Americans.
It is harsh to let chaos reign, but reality is harsh.

It will be a bloody mess, but that will have to happen short of the US annexing Iraq as a permenant colonial outpost.

Putting yourself in the middle of two parties shooting at each other doesn't stop them shooting and only means you get shot up needlessly and often get blamed for it.

It was stupid to go in.
But that is a past stupidity.
Don't compound it by staying there.
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I have high hopes that the public anti-(Iraq) war movement has begun in earnest with Cindy Sheehan in Crawford Texas. She is creating quite a stir and getting more publicity every day.

This Cindy Sheehan is completely disgracing her son, and his own wishes. How come the news is all centered around her and not her son? The ones that make the actual sacrifice, and go over to fight, under their own free will are usurped by a bunch of ninnie squealing fruitcakes? Pretending that they had actually been damaged by their kids exercising their own judgement. That's the issue, and it boggles my mind. If she is so damaged, I guess the only logic is to blame her son for volunteering to go over and fight for a cause he obviously believed in. I guess she has no respect for even that.

I am disgusted. It is a perversion.

Casey Sheehan re-enlisted with the Army in August of 2003, knowing that his unit would eventually be deployed in Iraq.

www.buzzflash.com...

TheMesh

Leaving Iraq now would be tantamount to giving up in the war against the Third Reich and the Empire of Japan. The effect on the future of this country and the world would be absolutely devestating.

Democracy through history has come at great cost to those who fight for it.

I am afraid leaving I raq now is not an option. Then again staying on in the current role we have there does not seem to make things better. I believe the best option we have now is to (as fast as possible) move more and more power to the Iraqi police and army. and only serve in a "supporting" role.

To leave Iraq now would be a much greater mistake than to have gone there in the first place.. IMO!



Gazz

why don't we allow them to liberate themselves?

we removed their oppressor (hussein) so let's just put key things in place to give them some sort of building blocks. we already dipped our hand in with establishing a president so lets see what they can achieve as a nation on their own.

americans created america, allow the iraqi's to create their new iraq without the bitter american aftertaste. they have a great natural resource that can provide a great amount of money in rebuilding their nation. are we that naive to think they are so stupid they can't establish a government on their own and we have to be present for them to emerge as a great nation?

chaos reigned before because they had a dictator. abolish the dictator mentality, establish a democracy and allow the people to feel empowered without our intervention and see what occurs. yes it's not as easy as it sounds but it will show them that we believe in them not to # up and get their country fixed up on their own and we can continue aiding them just as we do any other nation. if invasions from other countries is what we fear, we can use our military force as that instead of war soldiers.

thats my take on it.

We took Sadam out becuase nobody else could/would do it.
Now that he is out we should leave the Iraqi's with an international peace keeping force made up of Muslims from Iraq's neighbours. The UN would have to play a pro-active role and not reactive as has been the case of historical stance.
We would still have to pitch in funds for rebuilding the infrastructure but as an oil rich nation, in time they can stand on their own. Wouldn't that satisfy everybody?

Originally posted by keybored
We took Sadam out becuase nobody else could/would do it.
Now that he is out we should leave the Iraqi's with an international peace keeping force made up of Muslims from Iraq's neighbours. The UN would have to play a pro-active role and not reactive as has been the case of historical stance.
We would still have to pitch in funds for rebuilding the infrastructure but as an oil rich nation, in time they can stand on their own. Wouldn't that satisfy everybody?

sounds like it would to me, that's why people question the motive's of this government. we went all gun-ho on iraq on false pretense and are now so deep in it the feeling of backing out will show as failure from the U.S.

what a horrible scenario we have been put in. all due to improper intelligence.

Like cheese and wine, the US and Coalition will not leave Iraq till it is time, and that time is when we are requested by the Iraqi government to do so or the US and Coalition generals in command deem that there is enough Iraqi forces trained to adequately take over.

Anything other than the two broad-termed stipulations given above is simply rhetoric; nothing more, nothing less.




seekerof

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by TheMesh
This Cindy Sheehan is completely disgracing her son, and his own wishes.

How do you know what his wishes would be? And how specifically does this disgrace her son? If anything, working to get his friends out before they are killed would appear to be honoring him.

From an Interview with Ms. Sheehan:

DS: How did Casey feel about going to Iraq?

CS: He didn't want to go. He felt the war was wrong and did not support George Bush, but he felt it was his duty to go.

i can understand that there is no tangible items to gain. Other then facism, nazism, racism, and communism war hasnt solved anything.

Come on man we're not there for tangible items, We're there to make a better life for other people!

Originally posted by betaiso
This is how the Bush Administration + rest of the World sees it, the American citizen has different opinion though.

That was very funny.

But back to the topic. I also think that now is not the right time to leave Iraq, but I really don't know what can stabilize things up there.

Originally posted by umwolves123
i can understand that there is no tangible items to gain. Other then facism, nazism, racism, and communism war hasnt solved anything.

I'm curious how war has 'solved' any of the above mentioned things.

Come on man we're not there for tangible items, We're there to make a better life for other people!

That's some doublethink if I've ever seen it ... we destroy lives to make better lives. Very Orwellian.

Back on topic, I very much agree with Seekerof on this.

Im too the point where im sick of the whiney ass liberals crying on a daily basis that we should leave iraq. Do it, leave iraq and liberals scrw it up. at least we can blame them when it all goes south anyway.

Originally posted by slank
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Logic dictates leaving Iraq now.

There is no tangible productive result of the Iraq invasion.

STOP putting an American's face and ID on the inevitable violence in Iraq.

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What is the logic of leaving right now? Who will fill the power vacuum? Iran? Syria? Turkey? Just let the Iraqis have a Civil War? I contend that leaving now would cause more chaos than you envision. There are other players and forces at work in Iraq other than the US.

I can think of a few direct and indirect results from our action in Iraq.

First off indirectly, there has not been an attack "yet" on American soil.

Directly, Saddam Hussein and his Baathist/Sunni dominated party are no longer in power. Please tell the Kurds and the Shiites in Iraq that is not a direct result of our actions.

Libya has abandoned its plans for weapons of mass destruction.

Those are just a few.

As for your "inevitable violence in Iraq", is not trying to develop a government in Iraq that is truly representative of the population a worthwile goal to achieve. True the Iraqis themselves must implement it but to offer no assistance other than "let them kill themselves", as you imply is truly disturbing. Would it suit you better if it was UN peacekeeping forces that were in Iraq helping to rebuild Iraq. What if they were being attacked by insurgents as well. I have news for you, the forces that we are engaged with now RAN the UN out of Iraq with one bombing. If not the Coalition Forces then who? Please tell me who should be there to ensure that Iraq has a chance to succeed.