The Evils of Christian Conservatives, and How Can it be Stopped

Originally posted by LDragonFire
The thought of Clinton Doing what he did then lieing about it doesn't bother me. Why? He Never should have been asked about her!

He lied under oath in a sexual harrassment case. His position shouldn't
save him from having to answer questions and be totally honest. It
was a case where there was sexual intimidation by a man of a woman
in a subordinate position. He was under oath. He stepped in it.

I just got out of the hospital from havin Surgery

Nothing serious I hope. Take it easy. Don't let politics get you so
ruffled that you pop any stitches!

FlyersFan Go Blues!!!

The Blues have the nicest uniforms in the NHL. (us girls notice
things like that). But our Broad Streed Bullies will flatten 'em.
Hey .. how's Pronger these days?

You may not be against Gays, but your religon is

The Catholic faith is against people acting upon their gay inclinations.
The Church doesn't consider homosexuality inclinations a sin, just the act.
It's based on the bible (Romans) and the church is a bible based church.
So that's what you are going to get. When a religion is based on
something other than the bible then you get acceptance of the gay
lifestyle. In some cases, like the old native American Indian religions,
being gay was considered a 'blessing' from the Great Spirit. Many Indian
men kept both female wives and male wives ... because gay people were
different they were considered 'specially touched' by the hand of the Great
Spirit.

Christians in the USA are building museums here that teach there belief in our history, these do not support the facts, they say earth is only like 6000-10000 years old, when Science says Earth is 4.5 Billion years old.

So what? Let them. Let them build museums with their money and let
them try to explain that the world is only 5,000 years old. It isn't and so
they won't be able to. Their 'museums' won't hold up. But who cares?
It's their own private donations and only their own people will be going.

I wouldn't stop a Jewish group from having a Jewish museum with their
version of history. I wouldn't stop a mormon group from having a museum
with their version of history. Let the fundamentalists have their museums.
Their science doesn't hold up so there is very little chance that their ideas
about the earth being 5,000 years old will 'spread' outside their own group.

Let it go. Be at peace. Don't pop your stitches.

Since the 80's has been a growing trend started by mr. pat, that is making a point of calling US a Christian nation.

The bases for them to call a Christian nation is in references of the constitution.

Many think that the constitution link to Christan base nation was always there that can not be more far from the true, it actually became an issue during the growing years of fundamentalist power in the country during the 80's.

The christian coalition was one of them.

I think I had a thread that talks about this somewhere I had to find it.

TC first of all I want to say you have my respect for replying to this thread.
TC how are you any differnt from the from the nut cases in office?
You havnt said what you think a conseritive or a christan is and I dont want a link to the political party.

People arent trying to get rid of god in western society. In truth reglion is a outdated concept the masses no longer need to go to church to be told what to think. Instead people can sit on the couch and watch the 6 oclock news.

Of course some people still go to there place of worship. In other words the local shurch is no longer the centre of society. One could argue the reglion is coming back into society via islamic immigrants but thats another topic.

Originally posted by FlyersFan We are generous
.which is a Christian virtue. But I don't know
about us being a 'Christian Nation'...

We are a generous nation. But I hope that you arn't saying that generosity is exclusively a Christian virtue; cause I had a Jew buy me a beer once; and one time a buddist guy helped me change a flat on my Pickup.

Mr. Crowne,

I've read your many posts trying to convince people that the USA is a Christian nation and many, many people have produced credible evidence to show that this is simple not the case. You've managed to produce one quote by one judge making such a statement.

You are treading very close to violating a central tenent; indeed a "commandment" of this board: "thou shalt not knowlingly post false statements" yet you continue to repeat this falsehood.

You are beginning to resemble the embodiment of the topic of this thread. Please show evidence that disputes this, if you are able.

Like I said, Clinton is not without faults, I just feel the loathing towards him for what he did, is Nothing compared to what is happening today.

I Bleed Blue, we lost Pronger and Al Macinnis in the same month, but I bet we still go far into the playoffs hopefully

My wife says the same thing about the stichtes...

I feel the USA has become a place where you must be Christian or Christian like in order to be considered a Good American. this is crap, but we are steadily headed towards theocracy, whether we want it or not.

www.rense.com...

All of this can be colaberatted by other sources.

Can anyone tell me the last time the supreme court rule For the citizens? Now do you think that will change anytime soon? I wonder why the Chief of the Court couldn't be some one allready on the court?? why some New Guy who hasn't spent a Day there?? as a Supreme Court Judge??

news.google.com.au.../SCOTUS%2520ROBERTS.jpg

www.bradblog.com...

Originally posted by whaaa
We are a generous nation. But I hope that you arn't saying that generosity is exclusively a Christian virtue

Nope. Absolutely not. I was pointing out the biggest (at least
what I think the biggest) virtue America has is generosity. This
is a Christian virtue, but I don't know if that means that we are
a 'Christian Nation'. I am fully aware that generosity is also a
virtue, thankfully put forth by other religions as well.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
I feel the USA has become a place where you must be Christian or Christian like in order to be considered a Good American. we are
steadily headed towards theocracy, whether we want it or not.

Being 'Christian like' ... you mean exuding Christian like virtues?
Charity, hope, kindness, etc? That's not such a bad thing to
want your neighbor to be like. If you are a crotchetty stink-wad,
of course people will think you are a 'bad' American. A bad PERSON
actually.

You think we are headed for a theocracy? Really? I fell just the
opposite. What part of the country do you live in? Honestly,
the 'in your face' Christianity would probably get
you shot at in New England or on the left coast. The deep south is
the only place in the USA that I know (from experience) that you
get that kind of garbage. We lived in Alabama for 10 years.
It was AWFULLY thick with it down there. Alabama, Georgia,
Mississippi, Tennessee, perhaps South Carolina.... That's 5 states
out of 50. The rest of us Christians are happy being Christian
and not caring what church or neighbor does or doesn't go to.

(When we lived in Alabama, the very first thing a person would say
to you upon meeting you - 'so ... what church do you go to?'
So nosey! They just wanted to see if they should hate you or not
right off the bat. Hate you ... or try to convert you. I'm soooooooo
glad we don't live there anymore.)

Originally posted by FlyersFan

(When we lived in Alabama, the very first thing a person would say
to you upon meeting you - 'so ... what church do you go to?'

So nosey! They just wanted to see if they should hate you or not
right off the bat. Hate you ... or try to convert you. I'm soooooooo
glad we don't live there anymore.)

He,he, you are so right, flyer, I have been in GA for 9 years and still people after meeting will ask me about what church I belong too.

In the beginning I used to be polite and will answer with, "Well I am no visiting any yet"

That was like an encouragement, they will proceeded to tell which one was the right one and which ones were the wrong ones.

Comment likes "don't go to this Church or that church" was common.

Until I got tired of it and started to answer with " I am of not religious denomination and even if I was looking for a Church your churches are to expensive for my budget"

That will leave them with an expression in their faces and many will just mumble or just said nothing. he,he,.

Most people measure you and your worthiness on with denomination of church you belong.

Originally posted by marg6043


Most people measure you and your worthiness on with denomination of church you belong.

That's funny. I am a Conservative Christian, and I feel like you measuring my worthiness based on what church I go to and what I believe. Oh, yes, it's okay for you to do it, but not for me to do it.

I have read this thread and according to you and the starter of the thread, I most be the most horrible, dispictable, down right sorriest son of a gun around. According to you guys (and gals), I have committed every sin that our church preaches against. Reading this thread, I would say you have already determined my worthiness to society and this country. Kind of hypocritical. (Oh no, just like us Christians. That must mean your worthless as well, since you have and do the same things that you have just accused me of doing.)

Go ahead, call me all the names you want to call me. But if you think that Christians are ruining this nation, then you start changing it for the better!!!

[edit on 17-10-2005 by knights5629]

Originally posted by marg6043
and started to answer with "...and even if I was looking for a Church your churches are to expensive for my budget"

If I had any applause left, you'd get some! That's excellent! If I am
ever unfortunate enough to find myself back in Hunstville Alabama,
I'll be borrowing this!

[edit on 10/17/2005 by FlyersFan]

Sorry, Dragon Flyer, but I need to point this out. Your spelling and grammar are absolutely vile. I had alot of trouble reading your post because it's so incoherent. I dont expect perfect spelling or grammar, even I am not perfect, but for the most part, its easy enough to read and understand what I write. I had to read your stuff several times.

First off, you are incorrect in several assumptions. America is NOT the most conservative nation in the world, nor is it even close, not even in the top 10. If we were that conservative, things would be worse. No mini-skirts, no nudity or swearing in movies, ect. America right now is leaning strongly to the right. In a few years, we will probably start leaning left. Making such generalizations ruins your credibility.

Second, you are WRONG when you claim that conservatives fought for and supported slavery. try reading a little history. Lincoln was a REPUBLICAN. The conservatives of that time supported the abolition of slavery and the unity of the country under one rule of law.

You are also incorrect when you say that conservatives destroyed other people cultures. The destruction of the Native Americans started long before America was a nation, and was dpne by the European powers of all political stripes.

Conservatives are no more racist or homophobic than anyone else. Your statement is pure nonsense. I was raised in a pentecostal church, full of REALLY conservative religous fundementalists, and they were made up of ALL colors.

And before you say a thing, Im not conservative or Christian. Nor am I a liberal. I hate them both, and oppose them both. I do not take sides. Im a Pagan who holds some conservative and some liberal ideas.

By the way, Marijuana was made illegal during a DEMOCRAT'S reign of terror. It was outlawed in 1935 under Roosevelt.

TC, I still state you are incorrect in calling America a Christian nation. Only Christians believe that, and even many of them dont. America's government and constitution were based on Grecco-Roman classical ideas of both the republic and democracy. Both republics and democratic systems were devised by the Romans and Greeks when they were still pagans, or agnostic. The ideals of the constitution we love so much now were spreading through ancient Greece and Rome centuries before Jesus was born. The ideals this country was founded upon were niether Christian, nor even Pagan. They were revolutionary and secular, needing no god-form nor holy sanction to function. They were the beginnings of secular government.

Christian values did not form this country, nor are they the glue you claim. There was nothing Christian about the wild west. This country has never been socially or culturally unified about anything. There is no common culture, no common ground, we are a nation of many, a nation of glorious chaos.

Those who wish to "remove god" from the constitution or the government dont do so because they "hate" him. They are removing him because he was not there in the first place, and was artifically added after the fact by manipulative moral majority goons.

Freedom, personal choice, tolerance, and respect are NOT Christian values.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Thank You Dear for putting My thoughts down in such a Beautiful and understanding way...

I just had to give you my last Above Top Secret Hit for this Month.. You hit on his every though and Did it without anger,, That was nice.

Thank You again,,,,, Jim...

[edit on 06/29/2005 by jfdarby]

Sorry, Dragon Flyer, but I need to point this out. Your spelling and grammar are absolutely vile. quote by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Is this an attempt to insult me, because 1. You don't agree with me? or 2. Is it a attemt to make yourself feel more superior?

America is NOT the most conservative nation in the world, nor is it even close, not even in the top 10. If we were that conservative, things would be worse. No mini-skirts, no nudity or swearing in movies, ect. America right now is leaning strongly to the right. quote by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

You admit right now America is leaning towards the right. Yet you claim America is not the Most conservitive nation on Earth? Thanks for the links And for attempting to prove me otherwise. Just what country on Earth is More Conservitive than the USA? I noticed you live in Washinton State most likely Much more Liberal than the Bible belt where I live, And I was also raised in the pentecostal church, But around here there is no preaching about tollarance or understanding. Just Gays losing any right for marraige. Please feel free to correct any grammer or spelling mistakes, or Hey! I have a better idea, lets stay on topic!

Lincoln was a REPUBLICAN. The conservatives of that time supported the abolition of slavery and the unity of the country under one rule of law. quote by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

To be Exact Abraham Lincoln was a Jacobin Republican And he:

was the only President to ever successfully suspend the Constitution, declare martial law over the nation for four years (even though the impact of Lincoln’s wartime declaration of martial law was felt in the South until 1879), and assume absolute dictatorial powers over the people of the United States.

DictatorLincoln

look and see when these people tried to outlaw slavery, perhaps your one that thinks this happened Before the civil war. or that the war was over slavery...

this is all the time I have for now

peace

s this an attempt to insult me, because 1. You don't agree with me? or 2. Is it a attemt to make yourself feel more superior?

Niether. It was an attempt to point out lousy writing and spelling. I could care less what view you enspouse. But if you want to successfully get a point across, you need to deliver it in a more intelligible way. Im not saying your spelling and grammar need to be perfect. But it took me a few times reading your posts before I could even figure out just what the hell you were trying to say.

It is not an insult, though you may take it like one if thats what you wish. Im simply giving you a friendly tip. If English is not your first language, then I can understand and accept. But I believe it is your first language, and thus, when communicating with others, you need to learn to write more coherently.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf - you articulated nicely what I feel about this post - the poor grammar and spelling overwhelm it. It is difficult to read and follow.

Incidently, I've always believed that the terms 'liberal' and 'conservative' are two terms that are often used incorrectly - often as a point of insult. Being a liberal is not a bad thing, neither is conservative.

I've always thought that conservatives are those who are reluctant to change the status quo and make rash changes unless it is necessary. This follows the line of Edmund Burke who wished to conserve heritage advocating the current social climate. It is the preservation of traditional values and power structures. I don't agree that we should always hold on to the status quo as 'traditions' often are covers for a lot of pretty awful things but then again, it represents a degree of comfort, safety and security. The status quo often represents the tried and tested. Change for change sake often brings more problems than good.

What we see in the current Bush administration is not conservatism - indeed the 'conservatism' mentioned in this thread is in fact right-wing radicalism, mixed with a sense of puritian christianity. Moreover, not all christians are right-wingers in the mold of Bush et al. While many catholics may be morally conservative as regards to matters such as abortion, they are very likely to be politically left-wing, in favour of the re-distribution of wealth.

Liberalism is, likewise, used as an unnecessary slur. The useage of the term has changed with time. In the 19th century, there really only were two British parties until Labour came along - the Liberals and the Conservatives. Liberal in this sense was a belief in the free-market and with a slight inclination towards the slighter poorer members of society (ie. opening up the vote to more people).

In the modern day, liberal is a variant of the 'pinko' term in America. It has connotations of being limp-wristed, ineffectual and soft. This is a justification for electing 'strong' right-wing officials. In fact, it is nothing more than propaganda. America suffers from not having a vibrant left-wing political party (although to be far, the same could increasingly be said of Britain). The democrats are moderate right, as opposed to the far-right of the republicans and yet America is a country founded on liberal values. It is a country that for the most part believes in the freedom of the individual and of the right of free speech. It is a country that allows people to do and buy and say more than many, many other countries in the world. And liberalism is a bad thing?

Perhaps this is why the current administration is so disturbing to outside onlookers such as myself. The perception is that these core values are being infringed upon. America is by no means the most conservative country in the world. Indeed, political conservatism does not always mean economic, social or cultural conservatism. Look at China about 10 years ago if you want to see cultural conservatism in a communist country. Alternatively, look at America in the 1950s and how much things have changed since then. For a contemporary angle, one only has to look to the middle east to see how culturally different countries such as Saudi Arabia are in comparison to the west.

In any case, it is all too easy to tar other people with a brush of liberalism or conservatism when in fact, we are all a hotch potch of different economic, political, social, cultural and religious opinions. Sometimes you find people who are right-wing or left-wing in all of these but more often than not, they will have a complexity of views and opinions that will surprise you.

[edit on 21-10-2005 by kedfr]

[edit on 21-10-2005 by kedfr]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

s this an attempt to insult me, because 1. You don't agree with me? or 2. Is it a attemt to make yourself feel more superior?

Niether. It was an attempt to point out lousy writing and spelling. I could care less what view you enspouse. But if you want to successfully get a point across, you need to deliver it in a more intelligible way. Im not saying your spelling and grammar need to be perfect. But it took me a few times reading your posts before I could even figure out just what the hell you were trying to say.

It is not an insult, though you may take it like one if thats what you wish. Im simply giving you a friendly tip. If English is not your first language, then I can understand and accept. But I believe it is your first language, and thus, when communicating with others, you need to learn to write more coherently.

Does PTS have MODS? What part of Stay on Topic don't you understand?

Again Please Excuse me for not using Correct spelling and Grammer, but it sure didn't stop you from replying to this thread. I do like the input, but please sTop belittleing my spelling and grammer, I do after all have the benifit of a inner city education. If you don't like what I write or what I have written don't respond...its that easy.

Originally posted by knights5629

Go ahead, call me all the names you want to call me. But if you think that Christians are ruining this nation, then you start changing it for the better!!!

Hum. . . poor thing have some persecusion problems do you, sorry but your name is not where in this thread targeting you personaly, I guess you most be confuse or something, or just want to start something making yourself a target of poor old me.

I am not up to your game

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Does PTS have MODS? What part of Stay on Topic don't you understand?

Again Please Excuse me for not using Correct spelling and Grammer, but it sure didn't stop you from replying to this thread. I do like the input, but please sTop belittleing my spelling and grammer, I do after all have the benifit of a inner city education. If you don't like what I write or what I have written don't respond...its that easy.

An inner city education is no excuse. You insult many on here, including myself, who went to inner city schools. Going to an inner city school does NOT mean you can reject any semblence of coherent English. You still dont get my point either: it is not the content of your posts I object to. It is the near illegible style that took me a few times reading before I could respond, because I had NO clue what the hell you were saying.

Kedfr, you make excellent points.

I've always thought that conservatives are those who are reluctant to change the status quo and make rash changes unless it is necessary. This follows the line of Edmund Burke who wished to conserve heritage advocating the current social climate. It is the preservation of traditional values and power structures. I don't agree that we should always hold on to the status quo as 'traditions' often are covers for a lot of pretty awful things but then again, it represents a degree of comfort, safety and security. The status quo often represents the tried and tested. Change for change sake often brings more problems than good.

Exactly. True conservatism is just as important as true liberalism. Its a balance of forces that can complement one another when used properly. Its a matter of deciding what truly needs change, and what should remain the same. It requires both logic and feeling.

What we see in the current Bush administration is not conservatism - indeed the 'conservatism' mentioned in this thread is in fact right-wing radicalism, mixed with a sense of puritian christianity. Moreover, not all christians are right-wingers in the mold of Bush et al. While many catholics may be morally conservative as regards to matters such as abortion, they are very likely to be politically left-wing, in favour of the re-distribution of wealth.

Again, good observation. What Bush and Co. enspouse is NEO conservatism, a far cry from true conservatism. Like any radical, he is dangerous. But I know many conservatives who are very rational, who, while Christian, do not mix their faith with rational leadership policies. And I know some left wingers, religous or not, who are just as dangerous as the right wing fascists.

In the modern day, liberal is a variant of the 'pinko' term in America. It has connotations of being limp-wristed, ineffectual and soft. This is a justification for electing 'strong' right-wing officials. In fact, it is nothing more than propaganda. America suffers from not having a vibrant left-wing political party (although to be far, the same could increasingly be said of Britain). The democrats are moderate right, as opposed to the far-right of the republicans and yet America is a country founded on liberal values. It is a country that for the most part believes in the freedom of the individual and of the right of free speech. It is a country that allows people to do and buy and say more than many, many other countries in the world. And liberalism is a bad thing?

Not entirely true. Liberalism is only used as a slur by the far right. We do have some very left wing groups that do hold sway in various areas. But America is VERY different politically than Britain. Our government is not very centralized. We have very few NATIONAL laws. Most laws are made by individual states, and thus each state is very different politically than another. For example, out west where I live, its pretty much a free for all. We lean more towards Libertarianism, a left over from the wild west days. But in most New England states, they lean VERY far left. Personally, if our federal government is not going to be Libertarian, Id prefer they be absolute moderates and centrists.

Perhaps this is why the current administration is so disturbing to outside onlookers such as myself. The perception is that these core values are being infringed upon. America is by no means the most conservative country in the world. Indeed, political conservatism does not always mean economic, social or cultural conservatism. Look at China about 10 years ago if you want to see cultural conservatism in a communist country. Alternatively, look at America in the 1950s and how much things have changed since then. For a contemporary angle, one only has to look to the middle east to see how culturally different countries such as Saudi Arabia are in comparison to the west.

The current administration is even more disturbing to people within our borders. But I have noticed the foreign media does not grasp that. But one thing to remember, is that this conservatism is only a temporary state of affairs. Americans will grow tired of the legacy of conservatives, and will lean further to the left. In otherwords, 8 years of Clinton's tyranny made us switch to right wing tyranny. After Bush leaves, I think people are gonna switch back to the left for a while.

An inner city education is no excuse. You insult many on here, including myself, who went to inner city schools. Going to an inner city school does NOT mean you can reject any semblence of coherent English. You still dont get my point either: it is not the content of your posts I object to. It is the near illegible style that took me a few times reading before I could respond, because I had NO clue what the hell you were saying.

As I said before thank you for pointing out my faults. Now can you Please Shut Up about them.

Thanks for attacking me. It takes away the fun for me to participate in my own thread. If it was so incoherant why bother to participate? To this point I have never put anyone on Ignor, thats getting ready to change.

so piss off and have a nice day, We won't be hearing from you again.

I Used to enjoy comeing to this site to Discuse things, But the attacks have got to stop or I will not return.