Need info on Masons, warren Commission.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
First off, I must say that I do not see all masons as evil, or having evil intent.

If that is the case, thank you.

It is the structure of masonry and its bylaws I find that is evil.

I find this statement extremely curious. As an author of some Masonic by-laws, I am perplexed as to what you would find "evil" about them. I also remain puzzled regarding your statement concerning our "structure".

I think JBJ was only in it ( Masonry)as a greedy buisnessman looking for "Connections", and may have found some. LBJs past is not clean, and has been implicated in a "Buisness" murder.

LBJ, as mentioned above, was an Entered Apprentice Mason only. This means that during his entire life, he only attended one Masonic meeting, which in this case was his own First Degree initiation ceremony. Apparently, he forgot about Masonry soon afterward, as he never pursued it any further.

Ford on the other hand had many connections. Not only a Freemason, but also a member of the Bohemian Grove.

Ford, unlike LBJ, was indeed an active Mason. In fact, he is one of the only two Presidents in U.S. history to have been honored by receiving the 33° in the Scottish Rite (the other being Harry S. Truman).

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Your drawing conclusions from assumptions again. Is it your assuption that its the politics that made these masons go bad? Are you saying masons are no different than the avarage person when it comes to corruption, now? When was it offically pronounced that you must be a lying, theifing, criminal, to be a politician?

I neither excused their actions, nor said that it is poilitics that made them go bad. I simply stated that this is a common trait among politicans, and NOT among masons. I also stated that these men had other priorities in their lives far above Freemasonry, their job being the number one preoccupation. You think these guys are thinking about Freemasonry when they are "wheeling and dealing" the way politicians do?

Its how politicians do buisness? Is this the stand freemasonry takes?

No, this is the stand that I take. How the hell can you assume that I am speaking for Freemasonry?!? You really need to understand that Freemasons vary as much as any other group of people, and nobody speaks for the entire fraternity.

Why dont they go public with this proclimation? Why dont they clean thier ranks of such scum so it dosnt reflect against the brotherhood?

Because, like I said, these masons have other priorities. Freemasonry was the least of their concern at the time. I've said many times that a man is a citizen, employee, family-man FIRST, mason LAST.

Do you have the same respect for our current administration? You do know Cheny and Rumsfeld are brothers, right? What blackmale will they be involved in?

Yes, I know Cheney and Rumsfeld are masons. I also know that they have a difficult job to do, one in which their ideals and principles may become compromised for the sake of duty. I don't know, I've never been in their position, but I DO know that men of power are often placed in difficult positions. How they react in those situations is a true test of a man.

Freemasonry doesn't change everyone, not all masons live by all of Freemasonry's principles. But one mason's actions DO NOT reflect upon the entire fraternity.

So I assume, safely, that J Edgar Hoover, was being blackmailed by the mob. J Edgar supplied the information to LBJ that was used to blackmail Earl Warren into taking the lead role in the warren commission. Earl warren didnt want the job because he knew, or strongly suspected that it was a inside job. Other than the "incident" in mexico and the warren commission, Earl Warren the mason, was a noble, honest, and loyal public servant. He was this because his name was Earl Warren, not because of masonry. In my opinion, it was masonry that did him in!

As stated eairlier, LBJ was nothing more than a greedy, ruthless, buisness man who would stoop to anything to get his way. He was not above using his brothers to achive his greedy goals, and didnt care who or how many died in his wake. He used masonry to do others in!

Gerald Ford had extensive connections and I belive it was for this reason that he was asked to be a member. I can find no evidence that Ford took any action in the conspiracy other than rubber stamping the results of the commission and moving the location of a bullet hole in Kennedys back which skewed the official report. His morality is questionable as he did pardon nixion, for if nixon went to trial, the "Whole Bay Of Pigs Thing" would be brought into the lime light. So there could be no trial, and Nixon went free. Ford was taking care of his mason brothers. (Nixon was not a brother mason, but it would have exposed those brothers who were involved. Nixon, was Fords "Bohemian Grove brother)

Richard Russel was brought in as a brother mason, who knew how to play the game. He saw what happend to Warren and decided he didnt need to be reminded of any "incidences". LBJ knew Russel could be trusted because of his oath to the brotherhood, and took advantage of it and even confided in him.
"Russell originally agreed that John F. Kennedy and J. D. Tippit had been killed by Lee Harvey Oswald and that Jack Ruby was not part of any conspiracy. However, later he began to have doubts claiming that "no one man could have done the known shooting." On a taped telephone conversation Russell had with Lyndon B. Johnson about Oswald being the lone gunman, he is heard saying that "I don't believe it". Johnson responded with the words: "I don't either". "

The masonic "Oath to the death" whether symbolic or real, was Russels downfall. For if the oath was not present he could have gone public with his knowledge and suspitions of LBJs wrong doings. And it could have been the beggining of the end of the coverup.

Did Freemasonry play a part in the actual assassination? No. Did it play a part in the coverup? Absolutley!





[edit on 27-7-2005 by All Seeing Eye]

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
As stated eairlier, LBJ was nothing more than a greedy, ruthless, buisness man who would stoop to anything to get his way. He was not above using his brothers to achive his greedy goals, and didnt care who or how many died in his wake. He used masonry to do others in!

Do you have ANY evidence of this claim? Can you demonstrate ONE way in which he used Freemasonry to harm others? I don't even know how someone COULD do this, but it's up to you to prove this, not me.

Gerald Ford had extensive connections and I belive it was for this reason that he was asked to be a member.

Nobody is asked to become a member. Recruiting has always been illegal in Freemasonry. Ford ASKED to be a member. We all did.

The masonic "Oath to the death" whether symbolic or real, was Russels downfall. For if the oath was not present he could have gone public with his knowledge and suspitions of LBJs wrong doings. And it could have been the beggining of the end of the coverup.

And what leads you to assume this? It is, of course, simply an assumption on your part. The fact of the matter is that you dont know WHY he didn't go public. You are using assumptions, disguised as fact, to serve your own agenda.

Did Freemasonry play a part in the actual assassination? No. Did it play a part in the coverup? Absolutley!

Again, pure speculation on your part. In your last post, you did the EXACT same thing that Knight and Lomas did in their "The Hiram Key" series of books: they made an assumption, and used it to support further assumptions. This is a TERRIBLE lack of logic. No offense, but you make a lousy investigator...


[edit on 27-7-2005 by All Seeing Eye]

I was speaking of Fords membership on the warren commision, not freemasonry.

And I find it very interesting how I could edit your post.

Well, either Kinglizard, who by the way is a mod in the new world order forum has a dislike for me and added a edit line with my name on it to sebatwerks post, then warns me, or there is a software glitch that copied part of itself at the same time I edited my post.

King lizard, anything going on in the new world order forum?

I don’t much care for the unwarranted accusations All Seeing Eye.

Nor do I care for unwarrented accusations. You really should take a bit more time before you lower the boom, and investigate first. Maybe try asking questions first.

Please read what you posted with "new eyes".

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
And I find it very interesting how I could edit your post.

If you can’t understand how I thought you were admitting to editing his post it’s not worth trying to explain....

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Good God! For the last damn time, Freemasonry is JUST a fraternity!!! For crying out loud, dammit! Freemasonry could give two s#!%s about politics or power, it cares about itself as an organization. Nothing more. Get that straight, and adjust your beliefs accordingly.

Circumscribe your desires and keep your passions within due bounds....

If you get too angry and excited fewer people will listen to you, Brother.

What he says is essentially correct, Freemasonry is a Fraternity. You had many on your college campuses that were far more secretive than Freemasonry.

It is impossible to have a secret society where members are open about their status as members in the society, secret societies do not promote membership, you will not see a member of a secret society with the emblems on their cars. This assumption that there are higher secrets that only the elite in Masonry know is based on the fact that people are willing to believe the worst about what they do not know.

Ask yourselves how many Masons you have met, then ask yourselves if those Masons have ever attempted to control or subvert you in any way. When the Shriner Circus is in town think about the burn victims that they help and ask again, how many of them were corrupted by the horrible unaccountable action of helping children who have burns? What horrible deed has been done to you by a Mason?

The best way to judge a man is by his actions, and the best way to predict his future actions are by his past actions. Every Mason I know is a strong religious man who has a conviction to help others, it is what draws men to Freemasonry, not some elusive secret that makes them want to control the world.

From what I have read often on other sites (haven't been here long enough to see what is assumed on this one) about us, people are willing to believe that we all meet (those on the higher levels of Masonry) and plan to bring on the end of the world all the while worshipping Satan and whispering secret words to each other and planning our next crime that we will get away with because the Judge will be a Mason too... All it would take to debunk such a myth is to actually watch as those old men leave a meeting to realize that this is exaggeration in the extreme. That and the fact that there are not nearly enough Masons to be able to get away with crime even if it wasn't one of the Charges to follow the law of the Country and State in which you reside.

I know it is disillusioning, but take some time and actually speak with a Freemason, think about what he talks about, and really look into how they act. Freemasons will never attempt to subvert you, to control you, to do anything but offer help if you are in need. Make sure you speak with a true Mason as well, don't assume just because somebody says they are a Mason or have been a Mason that they are or ever were. Go to the Masonic Building and speak with men you know to be Masons, judge their actions and you will find this hyperbole and exaggeration to be exactly that.

Originally posted by No1tovote4
Circumscribe your desires and keep your passions within due bounds....

If you get too angry and excited fewer people will listen to you, Brother.

I know, I just can't stand the ignorance sometimes. It is absolutely ridiculus to see all the misconceptions, heresay and rumors being taken so seriously by a supposedly intelligent group of people. I've never seen a group of people so ignorant to one subject. It's like they ONLY want to believe what they believe, and NO amount of evidence, reason or logic will help them see the truth. So be it, whatever.

This assumption that there are higher secrets that only the elite in Masonry know is based on the fact that people are willing to believe the worst about what they do not know.

This in itself is impossible to disprove also. Theorists will ALWAYS state that we, as masons, have no way of knowing what is going in in other, more secret parts of the fraternity (little do they know that we actually DO, but whatever). It's like saying that they, as a son or daughter, have no way of knowing whether or not their parents are actually satanists! Of course they know, but can they really be 100% sure?

It's flawed logic, but it makes sense to them. This is why I call them one damn ignorant bunch.

I did not try to show that there was any high level masonic plot involved in the conspiracy, only that high level masons were involved, and it was due to thier associations. And I believe I have shown this as fact.

Many times sebatwerk you have asked for facts, and when shown you show a clear pattern of denial. Even now you stray from the subject matter and seem to enjoy leading the reader down avenues of irrelavence, but you are not the only one dong this. Many times I have asked you to stay on topic, you seem to be incapable of this. In the past you have asked me to answer your questions. If you havent learned by now, if they are not on topic they will not be answered.

This thread was not about freemasonry, it was about masonic associations and associations in general. I will not wast time on non issues..

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
So I assume, safely, that J Edgar Hoover, was being blackmailed by the mob.

I personally don't think it's possible to "assume safely", but hey, that's just me.

As stated eairlier, LBJ was nothing more than a greedy, ruthless, buisness man who would stoop to anything to get his way. He was not above using his brothers to achive his greedy goals, and didnt care who or how many died in his wake. He used masonry to do others in!

What Brothers? What Masonry? As mentioned, LBJ never got passed the First degree in Masonry, nor did he care. He attended only one Masonic meeting in his entire life, which was his own First Degree initiation. And that was both the beginning and the end of his Masonic career.

Gerald Ford had extensive connections and I belive it was for this reason that he was asked to be a member. I can find no evidence that Ford took any action in the conspiracy other than rubber stamping the results of the commission and moving the location of a bullet hole in Kennedys back which skewed the official report. His morality is questionable as he did pardon nixion, for if nixon went to trial, the "Whole Bay Of Pigs Thing" would be brought into the lime light. So there could be no trial, and Nixon went free.

Just in case you are not aware of this, the Bay of Pigs invasion was ordered by Kennedy, not Nixon.

People, remember, this thread is about masons on the warren commission, not Moderation nor each other. Lets continue the interesting discussion about the subject, masonry and the warren commission.

Masonic light, Nixons use of the "Bay Of Pigs Thing" was not a reference to the invasion itself, it was Nixons way of refuring to the kennedy assassination. And, Kennedy didnt order the invation of Cuba, he inherited it from Ike. Kennedy was in office only 3 months when it happened, and I believe he wasnt even briefed about it.

In a clear opposite, that being a non mason warren commission member, Sen Boggs had this to say.........

"Hoover lied his eyes out on Oswald, on Ruby, on their friends, you name it."

www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...

"Regarding Congressman Boggs' doubts about the Warren Commission: see the Oliver Stone movie, "JFK." In that film, District Attorney Jim Garrison chats, while on a commercial airliner, with a certain congressman (meant to be Rep. Hale Boggs.) That congressman voices skepticism to Garrison about the Warren Report, saying, "That dog won't hunt."

www.mindtoysrus.com...

Boggs was not under an oath to the death and began to speak his mind when........

"In 1972, a month before Nixon was re-elected President, Congressman Boggs' plane disappeared on a flight to Alaska. Privately, investigators later said the plane was found, but the monopoly press, the military, and the CIA publicly proclaimed the plane could not be located. CONGRESSMAN BOGGS' DAUGHTER, COKIE ROBERTS, was a lowly-paid mouthpiece for National Public Radio, supervised by the Rockefellers. (John D. Rockefeller IV's wife once headed NPR.) In an interview on the radio (5/21/93), Cokie Roberts said she and her mother Corrine (Lindy) Boggs, who later took her husband's seat in Congress, went to Alaska and figured out Hale Boggs' plane must be at the bottom of the sea and were troubled by the statements of "conspiracy theorists."

How convienient...........

[edit on 28-7-2005 by All Seeing Eye]

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
I did not try to show that there was any high level masonic plot involved in the conspiracy, only that high level masons were involved, and it was due to thier associations. And I believe I have shown this as fact.

You have NOT shown that they were involved due to their masonic affiliations! You definitely haven't shown it as a FACT. It's impossible to know why they were involved, but the safest assumption would be that they were involved because of POLITICS.

Keep in mind that Freemasonry does not involve itself in politics. Therefore, saying that these men involved themselves in shady political dealings BECAUSE of Freemasonry just doesn't make sense!

Yes, let me refrase that.

I did not try to show that there was any high level masonic plot involved in the conspiracy, only that high level masons were involved, and their is a high probability it was due to thier associations. And I believe I have shown that high level masons were involved in the conspiracy to cover up the assassination, as fact.


Thank you Seb

Update:

I have found that Allen Dulles is now impicated in the conspiracy.

"Mason Lyndon Johnson appointed Mason Earl Warren to investigate the death of Catholic Kennedy. Mason and member of the 33rd degree, Gerald R. Ford, was instrumental in suppressing what little evidence of a conspiratorial nature reached the commission. Responsible for supplying information to the commission was Mason and member of the 33rd degree, J. Edgar Hoover. Former CIA director and Mason Allen Dulles was responsible for most of his agency's data supplied to the panel. "

www.revisionisthistory.org...
www.freedomdomain.com...
www.freedomdomain.com...

[edit on 31-7-2005 by All Seeing Eye]

[edit on 31-7-2005 by All Seeing Eye]

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
"Mason Lyndon Johnson appointed Mason Earl Warren to investigate the death of Catholic Kennedy.

ASE: Why don't you listen to what others tell you?!?! LBJ WAS NOT A MASON!. He was an Entered Apprentice, and then never decided to continue past that! This means that he never paid dues, never attended meetings and NEVER became an actual member of the fraternity!

Like Masonic Light stated: he attended exactly ONE masonic function in his entire life: his first degree initiation. This was both the START and the END of his masonic career. So PLEASE stop calling him a mason, he was no such thing.

Or are you simply conveniently ignoring this fact because it tears a hole in your theory? That's bad investigative work, if you ask me. :shk:

[edit on 31-7-2005 by sebatwerk]