criss angel discussion...

He's just a showman. That's all. It's not magic or paranormal ability. And he's a terrible actor, to boot

reply to post by eyewitness86


terribly sorry that my vernacular does not spead across the recesses of time.

I "show my age" openly in my profile, born in 85, makes me 22. I dont see what the problem is.

And considering there have been relatively few things you have said that "have gone over my head" id say we are communicating just fine.

if only you'd drop the snide remarks..

reply to post by InSpiteOf



your entire reply is a case study in exactly what I was talking about: you DO believe all those ridiculous assertions that have not one shred of evidence. Thank you for that reply. It says it all. You believe all of the things that one must cling to in order to continue to defy logic. You admitted that you accept the odds of silent witnesses that stay loyal forever, paid off actors and crews that always stay silent so they can get free tickets..blah blah blah...nothing new, same old same old.

And WHY do you believe all those thing? Because you have valid reason? Because you have evidence? NO!! It is because you simply CANNOT COMPREHEND that which is outside of your personal experince and that which challenges your imagination and parameters of knowledge..thats why. You will believe the most silly, unlikley, odds destroying conspiracies and far flung imaginings before you will believe what you see and hear; your belief is rooted in nothing more than a desperate desire to maintain a grasp on what you believe to be your valid and certain knowledge that no man can levitate; thats the bottom line.

You will never believe that Criss can levitate because in your experience and training you have been told, and believe, that the ' Laws' of physics canot be overcome by any means that is not mechanical.

You are so sure that you comprehend both the material and spiritual realms so thoroughly that if a man could levitate than YOU could also...THAT is the key!! Not only does the idea of someone else being able to do things that you cannot and never could even imagine insult your supposed Godlike knowledge of the reality of all realms, but to admit that Criss can levitate would mean that YOU are placed in a position where you HAVE TO ADMIT that perhaps you do NOT have all knowledge of all that is real in both realms, both seen and unseen.

The deniers position is really quite shocking and ridiculous: Deniers claim to have a grasp of the entire science of not only physics but metaphysics as well. Astounding nerve; not even Einstein ever made such a bold claim. In order to KNOW for absolutely certain that no man can levitate would require vast knowledge of all aspects of not only the human experience and history, but also the effects and realities of all useen realms as well!!!

Buddy, somehow I think that rather than believing that you have total and complete understanding of both the physical and spiritual realms and how they operate, I will believe that Criss uses no props, since no evidence to the contrary exists. The odds are 1000000000000000 to 1 that my assumption that Criss can levitate is more likley than the allegation that you are in possession of all knowledge of all realms and how they operate....ya reckon?

Oh, and by the way: I consider it an homor to be placed on IGNORE by those who must flee from fact and logic and go sulk about the fact that they are always exposed as vaccuous and empty guessers with no substance whatsoever to their arguments; thats why they leave: They know that to continue will only bring them more ridicule from logical thinkers and those without the temerity to assume that they are all knowing and all seeing deciders of that constitutes reality.

I see those who push the ignore button on me as vanquished foes who have admitted defeat and must retreat before they endure another trip the the woodshed of logic and common sense. It is the last refuge of the desperate and agonized denier who has run out of steam and needs a place to go where they are not exposed as having exhausted all means to convince, short of actual evidence. Retreat if you will; hey, just call is a ' tactical retreat ' and imagine that you are just marshalling more evidence and proof for your triumphant return when you prove once and for all that those props really DO exist!! Imagination is one trait that deniers have in abundance; what a shame that they cannot translate all that guessing and supposing into one shred of actual proof.

Ok..one more down and only 90% of the rest of the world to go!! Sadly, many people operate exactly like a denier: it makes the world a much easier place to comprehend, and it makes it a lot easier to imagine that what one person can do, anyone can; but that just in not true.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
The deniers position is really quite shocking and ridiculous: Deniers claim to have a grasp of the entire science of not only physics but metaphysics as well.

Where do we claim to know this?

In order to KNOW for absolutely certain that no man can levitate would require vast knowledge of all aspects of not only the human experience and history, but also the effects and realities of all useen realms as well!!!

Where did I say I believe "no man" can levitate?

Buddy, somehow I think that rather than believing that you have total and complete understanding of both the physical and spiritual realms and how they operate,

Where did I say I believe such things?


My final statement


From the beginning, I have states that I believe man can levitate, I just dont believe that Criss Angel The Illusionist is one of them. I have a strong spiritual background that suits the path I walk, i have experianced things in which I need not go into detail here, but provide me with some level of insight into the unknown. The continued assumptions that, because I do not believe CA has the ability to levitate, means that I do not believe anyone has the ability to levitate, is asinine.

I am hereby resigning from this thread, as no new information has been brought to light, and no information we present will change your position. You have managed to avoid most of our direct questions, especially the ones requesting supportative evidence of your claims. You seem to have mastered the skill of double-speak, good for you. But I wish no further communication with you on this subject as it is going nowhere. Continue believing what you wish, but when CA has used up his limelight, and he puts video's out explaining his tricks, I hope you can come back to this thread, find us, and admit you were completely wrong, and perhaps, you did not have the understanding in metapyshics you believe you possess.

Good day to you all.

ISO

reply to post by eyewitness86


You seem to be the one running from the truth. Of course Criss is using trickery and sleight-of-hand to perform these "feats". If he had any actual skill, don't you think he'd be working for a government or trying to cure diseases, instead of Emo-ing around trying to look tough and mysterious?

If you can actually provide evidence to the contrary, I'd be more than glad to hear it.

From the evidence already out there, he's a fraud. Look at the "disappearing car" thing he did, when it was shown he just drove behind a wall. He's not even very original.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
The point of the DC video being posted was that others have "levitated" great distances WITH PROPRS.

Possibly with props, more likely that was simple camera editing. The very fact that there were no eyewitnesses in the video points to film manipulation. Eyewitnesses add credence to support the notion of levitation - be it genuine via a Gift of the Spirit or artificially produced.

Show us the "others" with witnesses and it is a stronger case for levitation of some kind having happened

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
The grand canyon isnt a stage, and the props he used were not high tech.

See above.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
I remain unconvinced that David Copperfield is anything more than an illusionist.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
I never said he was.

On that we both agree.

Originally posted by NephraTari
I really hate to rain on a parade but the levitation is not a mystery.

It's sunny on this end and we don't consider it to be a mystery either.

Originally posted by NephraTari
He does not need to pay actors. I can be done with Magnets. He could have a device to control such magnets anywhere on his person and activate them with a slight of hand.. the opposing magnet would be planted beneath the place where he is doing the demonstration. Reverse poles repel each other thus if the force was strong enough... would push him up off the ground.
I don't know the exacts of his game.. but there is scientific ways for it to be done.

Absolutely.

But in order to be able to use advanced electromagnetic, perhaps even anti-gravity devices, you first have to have the wealth in order to be able to afford it in the first place

You aren't going to purchase that high-tech equipment - which logic dictates is probably custom made to order - at your local magic shop and you don't get that kind of money from being a nightclub magician.

You get that funding AFTER you have your own television show(s) and have appeared in Las Vegas many times.

As with David Copperfield and NOT with Criss Angel

Criss Angel did not come from a wealthy family. His early home pictures of him growing up illustrate this. He basically came from nothing and got rich and famous BECAUSE of his high levitations and teleportations. While David Copperfield got rich and famous (much more slowly) only BECAUSE he was a very good illusionist.

There is no street magic video in the 1980s of David Copperfield flying around a golf course, surrounded by witnesses, or of him levitating above a hotel, surrounded by witnesses, or of him levitating off of a city sidewalk in broad daylight, surrounded by witnesses - all of which who confirm/testify to him levitating.

Someone care to find us one?

That's the difference between the two and that's what points to Criss Angel having a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis which he uses for his high levitations and teleportations

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
I couldn't care less about Criss Angel. I doubt what he does is legitimate, because if it were and it had any worth to society he should be willing to share what he knows. Instead he does crappy tv specials and the like. That's a rather worthless and selfish use of any supposed abilities he has.

There is no secret to telekinesis. It is a Gift of the Spirit. It is not like if he divulges that fact that suddenly others will be able to do it also.

But your basic conclusion about his character, or lack of it, is correct.

Criss Angel is not on a spiritual path, he isn't out to improve society or metaphysical understanding, and he is only out to stay rich and popular as a mentalist.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
The continued assumptions that, because I do not believe CA has the ability to levitate, means that I do not believe anyone has the ability to levitate, is asinine.

Actually, one assumption does in fact logically point to the other one.

Unless of course, you have one or more that you feel has a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis that you would like to mention, along with an explanation of why you feel that person or persons fit the bill

So we can compare said individual(s) to Criss Angel.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by eyewitness86
reply to post by ringing

 

This has been covered many times in this thread..please go back and read ..the answer is that we are talking about HIGH levitations like the Luxor and golf course events, NOT the plainly trkced LOW level levitation that is known quite well by all.

ANYONE can do the low levitations...no one can do the high one's..except Criss Angel.

OK, I am going to go out on a limb here, I think it's an illusion!, maybe he has a helicoptor carrying him, notice the films are always people "acting" surprised, as in not really genuine, I am sure there is alot of editing going on in the film room also, of peoples reactions, cut to levitating scene, back to reactions. Gimme a break, if you seriously think this guy can levitate from building to building, then shouldnt he be able to do it 6 inches off the ground without the fake pants leg trick?
Dont believe he edits film for his shows? watch this.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by eyewitness86
I also took into account the many video's, several of which were home videos taken by spectators who happened to be present and mailed to Criss. NONE showed any way that the event could have been tricked. No evidence suggest that props were there ...

Any wires, or supports would have been illuminated, as well as any platforms.There was ONE helicopter circling with cameras to film the event. far enough away to have no prop wash affect Criss. No helicopter could have been hovering without lights: The FAA would never allow it, and Criss would have swayed and twisted if he had ben hanging from any device shkyward. There was none. Criss was not hanging from anything.

How do spectators videos that show no props prove that there aren't any videos out there that may show something? Where did you view these home vids? Off his MF show? Or are there independent vids on youtube? If you've only seen these on his show, then he approved them. Maybe he asked fans to send them in? It's a great idea. He makes sure he collects all the vids, a call for all witnesses to come forward with what they have and a chance to have it shown on MF. He could even say once they've been submitted to him, he owns copywrite to them.

In any case, I don't know how he did this illusion and it could very well be it was so good, that it was difficult to expose him. He did say it took a long time to work out how to do it and not be caught on film messing up (not exact words, but it's been posted in this thread) IF he could really float up there, as you believe he did, then why worry about being exposed?

As for the lights and him being illuminated, Possibly this illusion needed the lights to work, as in they were the props. Blindingly bright? He looked almost translucent. I don't think he had wires, because there doesn't appear to anything above to hang from.

Look this is getting silly now, Eywitness and paul, I have already said that you would get a better knowledge of what you are talking about by joining a Magic group. Any real investigator would follow up on a lead, no matter how small, to uncover the TRUTH. It is time that you both Put up, or Shut up. There I have said it, I am sure that many others have wanted to. When you join a Magic group you have access to a library of books, papers and manuscripts, which tell you exactly how things are done. If you then want to go on and reveal the secrets on You-tube, well so be it, you will get a huge audience. But if you like it there, you would be able to join either The Magic Circle, The International Brotherhood Of Magicians ( I.B.M. ) or The Society Of American Magicians ( S.A.M. ) or all of them as I have. I would even be pleased to see you there, as would Criss and the many other leading members, you don`t need to be an expert to join, we would be pleased to meet you. You both have a passion for what you believe in, a magician is nothing without the passion. Come, see what you are missing, visit The Magic Castle and look at the plans which Copperfield, Henning, Wilson, Blackstone, Penn and Teller, Angel etc, have placed with them, explaning exactly how they achieve what they do, the real methods that is and not the ones on You-tube. You would not only experience GREAT WONDER, but would become so much wiser and perhaps be able to add to the effects with your interest and imagination. After all, that is what we all strive for is it not WISDOM AND TRUTH! I am sure that after you got involved, you would strive to protect our secrets as well, also enjoy a good drink with the greats ( perhaps too many drinks ). Talking rigging with Harry Blackstone and him saying to you, actually I never thought of that, Thanks! Well that beats all, you could be a part of it, what do you say?

[edit on 15-2-2008 by Qwenn]

reply to post by Qwenn

Is that your best shot at providing us with a cogent argument?



What you are lacking in is the ability to critically analyze a feat in order to determine through logic, reasoning, and experience (which you apparently also need), if it is real or if it is an illusion.

Regardless, if you think that you have the coveted answer of how the illusionist and telekinetic Criss Angel does his high levitations in front of many witnesses and over city sidewalks, golf courses, and parks, by all means, as you say, put up or shut up and post that awareness for all to see and analyze here and now.

Of course, you would also have to provide evidence to support your claim. Even eyewitness testimony can be considered evidence, as long as it is genuine.

Have any?

reply to post by they see ALL


Criss Angel is an incredible magician and illusionist but he has no magical powers. Criss himself has stated this on many occasions and in addition has either been caught doing some of his tricks or on a few occasions, shown how they were done. I don't know that you are implying that he is a magical being but I have seen quite a few poster make this silly, silly, silly, silly, silly, silly claim

[edit on 15-2-2008 by jfj123]

reply to post by Qwenn



Criss Angel, David Blaine and Cyril Takayama are the ONLY three men currently able to perform feats in public, off stage, and that defy all conventional and ' magical ' explanations. U am tired of all this hooey about these secret magician codes that they claim keep from the public...it's hogwash. Normal illusionists, which are everyone else on the list mentioned, or magicians, stage perfotrmers only, are TOTALLY different than the Criss, etc. crew in abilities.

To ask us to believe that only three men on earth that can do these things have the means and motive to do what they do, and yet no one else does? Unreal. No one else likes money and fame; gee, performersd on Vegas are different than what I recall. Most of them would chop off their arm to get a shot at Criss fame and fortune.....if they could levitate and do other events that go beyond the pale of stage magic. But they cannot, and so they are relegated to watching the same old variations on the same old theme's..and for old retiree's from New Jersy it must be amazing.

But believing that there are props when there are none is silly. Show us a likely way it was done, or relent.

WHY has NO OTHER person, ever, simply replicated Criss events WITH props and show us how they were made invisible? That would solve it all. But for some strange reason no one else on earth manages to pull it off....funny huh?

reply to post by Qwenn


My suggestion is not to bother trying to convince eyewitness of anything. I have posted video after video in another thread, showing how criss has done some of his tricks and it has never phased him.

Hi Eyewitness86,

Originally posted by eyewitness86

Criss Angel, David Blaine and Cyril Takayama are the ONLY three men currently able to perform feats in public, off stage, and that defy all conventional and ' magical ' explanations.

Actually brother, there are others who also have a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis.

Like Ehud Segev and Derren Brown for example.

But I have yet to see anyone perform the high levitations - with an abundance of witnesses - that Criss Angel has done repeatedly.



[edit on 15-2-2008 by Paul_Richard]

PR, you ask for evidence to back up our claims, but don't bother to look at much of it. I notice you do this alot. At least eyewitness is paying attention.

The interview I posted (on page 103) with penn is not the one posted before about his denial of the paranormal. This is one of him chatting about Blaine. A caller to the show brings up the Superhuman episode (where Criss says he uses mind body sprirt that gives him this super strength to lift the car). The guy says he can tell by the wheels it was faked. Criss laughs that ok he lied and at least he's an honest liar. The point of this is that he is revealing the mind body spirit is part of the act. Also revealing he does not have super strength, and that he lies. 3 for 1.

He has spoken on many occasions about not having powers and that he is BS'ing, doing illusions & doesn't believe or support the paranormal, etc: on Larry King, Carson Daily, Penn & Teller, Randi, Access Hollywood, Phenomenon, NBC, Montel Williams, Red Carpet Gala's, and his own MF show and Book ... and more. The ONLY time he plays up the supernatural is when he's performing.

He does and says things for dramatic effects. There's another video I will post that demonstrates this. I have to find the link for it

reply to post by Qwenn


Well said! I think this could be the only way they could enlighten themselves. It does good to look at things from another perspective.

They never do any research! You have to do it for them and still they dismiss it or not even bother to study the information and actually think about it.