Is this an Illegal War?

"2) Saddam DID have WMD for crying out loud! He used them on the Kurds and in the first Gulf War. How much more proof do you need?
"

HAD, HAD is the big word here, he HAD them, the same way the US HAS them, the same way plenty of other countries HAVE THEM..

HE HAD Them years ago, and the US decided to invade him NOW to remove them.. Jee's,talk about a few YEARS to late

Being that was their prime justification for war, and being their evidence was FABRICATED... thats illegial.. no quetsion about it

"These things led to 9/11 and the War on Terror. "

Neither of them was IN POWER when the warnings and advisers came saying alqaeda was gonig to attack.

Bush let it slide, he did nothing, he had report after report yet did nothing.
The clinton administration was the best admin for america in a long time, they incraesed living conditions and welath in the US, all bush has done is drain your economy and lie to you.

Bush as killed 20,000 innocents,
I agree, well the number is probably much much higher but i agree,
bush slaughtered 20,000 people for no good reason accept his own personal gains.

If I kill 5 people I get teh death penalty, bush orders the death of 20,000 plus he gets applauses from the american serviceman,

speaks a lot about the US forces doesnt it.

Hitler killed millions, and the UN was set in motion for something liek that to NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN..

seems bush is the first person in hisory to DEFY and accuse the UN off curroption, simply because they didnt agree.

Did you hear today Zarqawi asked binladen to set his lpan into motion.
Look out americans, your president is going to attack you again

Typical american,

" Your not willing to slaughter innocent childeren and women in the name of your COUNTRY, your coward ''

instead we will bomb them from the skies in our jets where they cant get us.

They are a HUGE threat and must be eliminated...

whoops, my evidence was fabricated, i lied to the public, and to the world, i wronly accused a foreign leader... oh well, ive started it so ive got to finish it... Death to you all

yep God bless America....

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
Typical american,

yep God bless America....

Typical Tulipwalker


**YAWN**

If thats all you have to say, why bother saying anything at all.
Stupid american, its always someone else fault, its always the other person who's wrong.
Your part of America, and that doesnt give you the right to s**t on anyone you like.

ITs about time your govermnet stood up to its mistakes..
Instaed of constantly trying to make it justified.

Its toooo much of a coincidence that all the war mongers behind this war benefited one way or another, through business partners, through friends families, theirs too many personal strings between your administration to ever make this war legal.
Its clearly and ONLY for the Gain of the America's

Who cares how many arabs die, get mamed, or lose loved ones, as long as ur chrysler can chug its way to denny's or Macca's down the street for your hearty burger...

yep, proud to be american!

[edit on 30-5-2005 by GlobalDisorder]

[edit on 30-5-2005 by GlobalDisorder]

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder

Who cares how many arabs die, get mamed, or lose loved ones, as long as ur chrysler can chug its way to denny's or Macca's down the street for your hearty burger...

yep, proud to be american!

Just so you know, Chrysler is German.....


We admit when we are wrong, sure we do, it just so happens we arent wrong in this case.

It was Legal for reasons already pointed out, I might be a dumb American but I can read and dont need to be told 5 times to pick up on a concept.

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
If thats all you have to say, why bother saying anything at all.
Stupid american, its always someone else fault, its always the other person who's wrong.
Your part of America, and that give you the right to s**t on anyone you like.

ITs about time your govermnet stood up to its mistakes..
Instaed of constantly trying to make it justified.

Its toooo much of a coincidence that all the war mongers behind this war benefited one way or another, through business partners, through friends families, theirs too many personal strings between your administration to ever make this war legal.
Its clearly and ONLY for the Gain of the America's

Who cares how many arabs die, get mamed, or lose loved ones, as long as ur chrysler can chug its way to denny's or Macca's down the street for your hearty burger...

yep, proud to be american!

[edit on 30-5-2005 by GlobalDisorder]

If that is your best argument you lost already. Now what you just did is another direct violation of the rules. It is one thing to say someone is lying and exagerating and post evidence showing this claim is true, and another thing to be insulting members just because you feel like it.

You lost the argument Disorder.

BTW i quoted your whole post in case you decide to change it.

[edit on 30-5-2005 by Muaddib]

If others can call people tulip what ever
then i think im liable to call anyone anything as long as im not swearing.

Edsinger, expalin to me why the government isnt wrong this time?
Explain how they were correct in there PRE war assesments?
Explain to me how they were correct in their THREAT assesments against the US?
Explain to me IRAQ's role in 911? Terrorism?

Explain why Colin powell and Chenney both delcared IRAQ was free from WMD, had no Nuclear plans and so forth prior to 911, but immediately after 911, they accused them of being a major threat? of stockpilling huge aresenals of weapons?

If the UN agreed to the USA, do you feel all these curroption claims would of come out?

"It was Legal for reasons already pointed out,"
When did IRAQ threaten the USA? When did IRAQ Invade the USA?
When did IRAQ use WMDS against the USA?

UN Laws - A country cannot invade a country unless it is threatend or attacked, a country cannot just ' DECIDE ' to go to war

isnt this exactly waht the US did?
Or can you show me proof Iraq attacked the USA, and threatend them?

I can show you PLENTY of proof the USA made up reasons to go to war...
I can even show you the US officials who admitted the proof was forged...
What I cant show you, are the threats from saddam directly against the USA homeland.

I wouldnt change my post.Im speaking my mind in a public forum, if you dont like it bad luck...

If you cant handle the truth that your goverment is playing you for a pawn, and lying to you, then hey stop agreeing with them and standing up for them.




- The United States of America fabricated, over exaturated and altered FACTS to invade a country for its own benefit. It LIED to its citizens, it Ignored world PEACE bodies, and it SNUBBED the international community. IT murdered thousands upon thousands of innocence, it destroyed one of the holliest countries on the planet, all on a whim. When the truth came to light it created a NEW reason, a new justification.. and it has made the world much more dangerous than it ever was.

Yet there are still people whom say this is the noble thing, the correct thing, the justified thing to do....

Why do so many people bash the USA ?
Because the USA has yet to give ANY reason for us to praise it, to thank it. To stand up for it.

IF your getting sick of people bashing the USA, then quit defending this illegal war.

[edit on 30-5-2005 by GlobalDisorder]

Edsinger your backed me up mate

"Who cares how many arabs die, get mamed, or lose loved ones, as long as ur chrysler can chug its way to denny's or Macca's down the street for your hearty burger... "
-Just so you know, Chrysler is German..... - Edsinger

the only thing about this sentace that struck a cord, is that you ASSUMED i labeled Chrysler an American Car... once again you Americans done care about the arabs that are dying.. as long as u can watch it on your TV, and not on your streets hey?

Yep...

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
...........
IF your getting sick of people bashing the USA, then quit defending this illegal war.

Perhaps you should learn to read the facts and realize that this was not an illegal war, instead of resorting to bashing the U.S.

Facts have been given in here showing that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. and other allies, yet you decide to ignore them because it doesn't fuylfil your agenda.

You cant be serious?
A Threat to America?

They couldnt even defend theyre capital city, let alone THREATEN AMERICA!

Iran, North Korea, these countries openly hate America, they chant' death to america '

Saddam said if you AMERICANS COME to iraq you will die,
he never said '
I am going to attack you america, im going to send me ricin laced ICBM's through to the whitehosue did he?

How was IRAQ A Threat to America?

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder

Edsinger, expalin to me why the government isnt wrong this time?
Explain how they were correct in there PRE war assesments?
Explain to me how they were correct in their THREAT assesments against the US?
Explain to me IRAQ's role in 911? Terrorism?

OK then go here, you will find why I think the way I do, as for Iraq, there are many reasons listed above , did you read them?

LOOK HERE

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
"It was Legal for reasons already pointed out,"
When did IRAQ threaten the USA? When did IRAQ Invade the USA?
When did IRAQ use WMDS against the USA?

UN Laws - A country cannot invade a country unless it is threatend or attacked, a country cannot just ' DECIDE ' to go to war

ONe shot at an airplane ONE SINGLE TIME when enforcing the treaty that IRAQ signed to save its ass......Just that one reason is enough.

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
isnt this exactly waht the US did?Or can you show me proof Iraq attacked the USA, and threatend them?

How about trying to assassinate an ex-US President?

Originally posted by GlobalDisorderIf you cant handle the truth that your goverment is playing you for a pawn, and lying to you, then hey stop agreeing with them and standing up for them.

We probably could handle the truth if you knew it!

Originally posted by GlobalDisorderWhy do so many people bash the USA ? Because the USA has yet to give ANY reason for us to praise it, to thank it. To stand up for it.IF your getting sick of people bashing the USA, then quit defending this illegal war.

Personally I think its envy - the old Europe argument again.

BTW, just in case you missed it, the WAR IS LEGAL deal with it.

Disorder, do you care that because of Saddam over two million iraqis died?

I guess you don't care about that huh?

yep....

Originally posted by Muaddib
Disorder, do you care that because of Saddam over two million iraqis died?

I guess you don't care about that huh?

yep....

Of course he doesnt, he doesnt give a hoot about Iraqi's, if he can bash America and Bush and look cool to his friends he doesnt need the facts nor the truth.

Bush and Blair tried to justify the intervention on the presence of so-called Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) and by drawing an implicit connection of the Hussein regime to Al Quaeda.

"Neither of these contentions stood the test of scrutiny," "No WMD ever existed at the ready with a hands-on-the-trigger scenario. Not only were these weapons ever found, but there is no evidence that they could have been deployed even if they had been found."

Regarding Bush and Blair's claims that Saddam supported "terrorism," Weston said it was "difficult to believe that there was any serious connection with Al Quaeda, especially when bin Laden saw Saddam as an infidel, although he supported Hamas and Hezbollah."

Bush - rather than advocate for "preemptive war" against an immediate threat - developed a doctrine of "preventive war" for a country supposedly considered a long term term threat. The concept of "preventive war" is illegal under Section 51, according to Weston.

The second article justifying water under the U.N. Charter is Article 39, that provides the three circumstances for the use of force: (1) a threat to peace, (2) a breach of peace and (3) an act of aggression.

"Bush kept insisting on Article 39, that there would be serious consequences against Iraq if they didn't comply with the Security Council's wishes, but most of the Council didn't buy into it," said Weston.

U.N. Resolution 1441 didn't authorize the immediate use of force, only the inspections for WMD in Iraq. "The war wasn't authorized by Article 39, so it was an act of aggression by Bush and Blair," said Weston.

Under the standards of the Nuremberg trials, the war in Iraq is considered a crime against peace. "If the regime engages in war crimes, the architects of the war are considered war criminals. Therefore Bush and his entourage are war criminals under international law," concluded Weston.

Another justification for the war by Bush and Blair was the previous authorization of force by the U.N to go to war over Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. However, Resolution 687 brought the Iraq war to an end and previous agreements were terminated. "I can't see how the UN Charter could possibly justify what Bush and Blair did in Iraq this year," added Weston.

Quotes from - www.counterpunch.org... -


Many a illegial pointers there...
But I still understand your point, this war was legal..
You just cant really explain it properly yet because your administration is yet to properly explain it

Of course thats a factor,
Innocent deaths is wrong no matter how you look at it.

Ill ask teh same quetsion to you,
your the ones saying killnig of these innocent by US bombs is the LEGAL choice.

If this was a case of humanitarium ethics.
Sudan, Zimbabwae NKorea would of all been on the scopes of the US long ago.


this war wasnt about WMD's, IRAQ's threat or iraq's iron fist over its citizens...

can you atleast ADMIT THAT ?

Id ratehr try to stand up to my friends in terms of explaining this war to be illegial,

then trying to promote it as the correct and rightful thing to do edsinger.

Getting a bit personal theyre mate,
running out of things to backup your ' we are rightous ' claim?

In his legal advice to British Prime Minister Tony Blair on the legality of the Iraq war, Attorney General Lord Goldsmith describes regime change in Iraq as a disproportionate response to Saddam Hussein's alleged failure to disarm, illegal in the eyes of international law. Goldsmith stresses that in terms of legality, "regime change cannot be the objective of military action."

another illegial point.

"The US has violated the Geneva Convention, which forbids "individual or mass forcible transfers […] of protected persons from occupied territory,” by taking prisoners out of Iraq for interrogation. In an attempt to confer legality upon its actions, the White House ordered the Justice Department to issue a memorandum defining the status of such “protected persons”. The result is a very disturbing exception to “an all-encompassing right.” (Boulder Daily Camera) "

Another geneva code BROCKEN

"Conn Hallinan charges that the US has systematically violated international law in its fight against terrorism. The US has violated the Geneva Conventions, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UN Convention Against Torture through mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib. The Bush administration justifies its acts by pointing to the “changed nature of the post-9/11 world,” a world in which international law apparently does not apply to Washington’s decision-makers. (Foreign Policy in Focus) "

Dear god not another illegaility

"The US has violated the Geneva Convention by cutting off water supplies to Tall Afar"

"For the first time, United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan has declared that the war on Iraq was illegal"

"The report suggests that over 100 children remain detained in jails throughout Iraq, with information of the children’s identity, whereabouts, and the duration of detention unknown. "

Even locking up kids, good ol american know how

"Without the Security Council's consent it is clear that the invasion of Iraq amounted to an unlawful act of aggression in breach of the U.N. Charter, a violation of the jus ad bellum"

The UN would never of agreed to agression..
WHY?

Because they never believed Saddam to be a threat, or hold WMD's.

The US Said they werre wrong and invaded. '' Illegial "

well who turned out to be telling the truth?

Personally, and this is certainly open for the ever continued debate, anyone who thinks Saddam did not possess WMDs, is fooling themselves, despite the lack of finding large quantities of them. Too many unanswered questions remains.

Personally, yes, I believe he had them, and since he was given a definite timeline for invasion, it was easy to get rid of them...

However, when you invade, then have control of the region, and then find NO (zero, zip, nada) such weapons to hold up as a smoking gun (just could have beens, what ifs, etc.), then you've screwed the pooch....and that's exactly what happened.

Thats a nice site, a pitty it had nothing to do with iraq.
all those terror attacks WERNT IRAQ

NEXT!

"ONe shot at an airplane ONE SINGLE TIME when enforcing the treaty that IRAQ signed to save its ass......Just that one reason is enough."

That wasnt the reason the US went to war. and that happened MANY MANY years go.
The US accused IRaq of having WMD and threatening America.
This was a flat out lie.
They invaded on this lie. That makes it illegial.

"How about trying to assassinate an ex-US President?"

A grenade was thrown at president bush in russia last month, it was live but didnt go off
Does this mean we are allowed to invade russia? it take that as an attempted assination!

"We probably could handle the truth if you knew it!"

you couldnt, you cant, because your still feeding on this Cr*p your goverments feeding you, and asking for more!

"Personally I think its envy - the old Europe argument again."

Envy, haha i pitty you. Your the one who's going to lose loved ones in the next terror attack, which falls on your presidents lies.
your the one who's going to be drafted when # hits the fan in Iran and elsewhere in the middleleast. Your the one who's country has lost all international RESPECT. Americans are the butt of all the jokes in the world at the moment, whats even worse is you still stand up for this illegial war!

"BTW, just in case you missed it, the WAR IS LEGAL deal with it."

Sadly, your the one who's going to have to deal with the reprecussions of your governments lies... Agani its your country that will be attacked, its your citizens that will be killed. Because of AMericans liek you who belive murdering innocents in IRAQ is ok, as long as your government says its ok!


[edit on 30-5-2005 by GlobalDisorder]

Ok one more time.

Saddam did not live up to his end of the end of hostilities in 1991, therefore the US had the right under the existing UN resolution to act.

WMD's - I still think he had them and got rid of them or hid them in short order while the US was asking the UN to get serious with Iraq or the US would take matters into its own hands to deal with the threat.

Now, with hindsight we know the reason the French and Russians and Chinese for that matter would not go along with a military action. Funny as those same countries thought he had WMD also btw.

In Hindsight you say no WMD were found so it was illegal. So, in your estimation with all the games Saddam was playing, how long would it have taken the inspectors to really find the truth? With no trucks leaving the facilities while the UN drove in the front gate?

Your hatred of Bush and the United States is fine with me, but you must understand that no nation will protect us and will defend us.

You dismissed my link out of hand and yet you must have read the Oklahoma City John Doe #2 comment right, you know the one that mentioned Iraqi intelligence? How about the fact the Saddam put out a hit on an Ex-President? I know that doesn't bother you but it tends to piss us off.

Americans are not like you Europeans, you claim you don't want war and the very reason you haven't had one to speak of is the fact that America put her cities on the line to defend you, and now when we are attacked by a "radical Islam' , we get tired of swatting at flies, so we kill it, We don't need the French blessing anymore, as they are irrelevant now in the big picture.

You just chant your flower power tulipwalking BS and later on when the crap happens in your backyard you will finally get the picture.