Pope Francis Says Marxism, Christianity Have a Common Mission

a reply to: FlyersFan

From what I Hear , the Communists do not Believe in the Pope . A Catholic Conundrum , eh ?

When the Lord was talking to the Samaritan woman at the well, he said "You worship what you don't know, we worship what we do know, because salvation is of the Jews."

How could that jibe with His ministry being about increasing the amount of help available to the poor?

It wasn't about introducing the notion of helping the poor. Social welfare was not unheard of in the ancient world. Deuteronomy 24:19 had farmers only reap their fields once and leave any grain they missed so the poor could gather it. Ancient Rome had a grain dole for its citizens.

The point of the Gospels was always said to be to save peoples' soul.

In Matthew 12:1 and Mark 2:23, the disciples pick and eat grain, which was allowed by Deuteronomy 23:24,25. However, they run afoul of laws prohibiting work on the Sabbath.

Can it be the Jews' method was effective, according to the Lord himself, but depended on being devoted to the observance of many little rules?

Can it be the Disciples were in a grain field taking a little welfare because they hadn't been raised in traditional Judaism and needed a simpler, more resilient method to save their souls? Can it be Mary Magdalene had become both wealthy and possessed by seven demons because she needed such a thing? Can it be they got victimized for not having it?

Muhammad would state centuries later that he had merely perfected an ancient religion handed down to many peoples and many places millenia ago. In his last public speech, he stated "there is no excellence in Islam except through piety." The word "Islam" means submission. Perhaps that means intelligent folk had to submit the salvation of their soul to the masses? Perhaps people were devoted to help the poor by selling them their souls and wound up wealthy and possessed? Herodotus is said to have gotten many things wrong in his description of the worship of Ishtar in Babylon but perhaps he was essentially right in that many religions consisted of deliberately sinning or using war in order to enslave the intelligent?

a reply to: FlyersFan
He himself is a socialist, so of course he wants to find common ground. Marxism has been infiltrating the Catholic Church for some time now. Just look at Pelosi and Biden, both Catholic, both about as Christian as a tick ….
Anyway, I have heard before that communism and Christianity have some similarities, however there is not a true common goal, as Marxism existed for the purpose of eliminating the family unit, and communism exists fur the purpose of eliminating freedom and liberty. Communism replaced the family unit and true community with the agendas of the “Supreme State” and government.
I am certain that this “Pope” has had the purpose of eliminating the true religion of Christianity and replacing it with communistic goals. Communism is and always has been godless, thus the ultimate reason for its being is the very antithesis of the meaning and goal of all religions which worship the Creator of all that is.
Even in the UN World Council of Churches, they have replaced the true church with a sanitized version of the member churches. I believe this Pope is on the same mission to replace true religion with that of the goals of the UN.
I knew right away this guy is not a true representative of the Catholic Church and its principles.
Here is an interesting article about the Pope and his ideas, which I don’t entirely agree with, but the writer makes some interesting comparisons based on Francis’ comments … www.acton.org...
I think he is a player for socialism, he has socialist roots, no matter what ours out of his mouth.

originally posted by: VariedcodeSoleDon't let man shake your faith, only let God if that's what God wants to do.

Catholics are invited to recall that their church teaches the effects of the saving power of their sacraments are conditional upon the intention of the officiating priest. See Baltimore Catechism No. 3, Q. 585, 613.

It is easy to see how a Marxist priest might shake one's faith if they could control whether your faith works for you.

From the thread "Psychic Self-Defense Help" in Philosophy and Metaphysics"

a reply to: wrayth
So what are tulpas exactly?

It refers to the theosophy version more than the Tibetan thoughtform version. The latter being analogous to golem and the former being an imaginary friend.

In the modern version it's a self-created sentience that exists inside one's head. They are not necessary audible, though some experience it more vividly.

You talk to it. It builds its personality. Then it responds like a sentient thing in your head. Self created but there.

What if people intent upon subverting the faith simply did not intend to make the Lord present? (See the last thread.) What if, instead, they agreed upon the features of what they would want the Lord to be, and created some sort of thoughtform or tulpa?

What if they had studied scripture and knew how to make it convincing?

I don't know what is believed about tulpas or thoughtforms by people who study metaphysics, but what if worshippers who were tricked into praying to them could hear answers somehow?

It is not scriptural to believe that there can not be false Christs.

Matthew 24:24 says "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."

The chapter may refer to a specific time but it doesn't say there can't be false messiahs at other times.

The church hast stayed at the top of world power for almost two thousand years by hitching their wagon to the loosing side of global conflict..

originally posted by: Solvedit
Catholics are invited to recall that their church teaches the effects of the saving power of their sacraments are conditional upon the intention of the officiating priest. See Baltimore Catechism No. 3, Q. 585, 613.

613 talks about the disposition of the person receiving the sacrament. 585 talks about the 'right intention' of the priest administering it. I have been Catholic my whole life and I was Third Order Carmel for many years. I studied at a Franciscan monastery on weekends for 10 years as well. I have always been told that the priest does not have to be in a state of grace, nor does he have to have faith in the sacrament, in order for the sacrament to be valid. He can say mass and hear confessions and they are valid, even if he is in a state or mortal sin or if his own faith has waivered.

I don't think 613 applies. 585 could be argued that it applies. But what is taught doesn't match to how you have interpreted 585. So there is a disconnect somewhere.

Q. 585. What do we mean by the "right intention" for the administration of the Sacraments?

A. By the right intention for the administration of the Sacraments we mean that whoever administers a Sacrament must have the intention of doing what Christ intended when He instituted the Sacrament and what the Church intends when it administers the Sacrament.

Q. 613. What do we mean by giving a Sacrament conditionally?

A. By giving a Sacrament conditionally we mean that the person administering the Sacrament intends to give it only in case it has not been given already or in case the person has the right dispositions for receiving it, though the dispositions cannot be discovered.

Edited to add .... we used to have the Baltimore catechisms but no longer do. We got the new Catechism that came out in 1994 and I think that supersedes the Baltimore catechism. (not sure about that). But what the official new Catechism says about the sacraments and validity of the sacraments not depending on the holiness of the priest -

From page 292. Section 1128 "The sacrament is not wrought by the righteousness of either the celebrant or the recipient, but by the power of God. From the moment that a sacrament is celebrated in accordance with the intention of the Church, the power of Christ and his Spirit acts in and through it, independently of the personal holiness of the minister. Nevertheless, the fruits of the sacraments also depend on the disposition of the one who receives them.

So the new Catechism (30 years old?) says the validity of the sacrament is based on the intention of the Church ... it doesn't say the intention of the priest. Looks like this is a good question to ask the priest this weekend ... if I can remember to do so.

That which is wrong can be made right. See, you're not the only one with mistakes.

a reply to: FlyersFan

A little on the history of Communism that Pope Francis is forgetting -

Marx called religion the 'opium of the masses', and a tool of their oppression. The history of Marxism is rooted in opposing, uprooting, and removing religion from the culture. How can Christianity have a common mission with that?

Well, he is from Argentina...home of the infamous Peron's.

They of the "Don't cry for me Argentina" gang, immortalized in the movie and play "Evita".

Maybe he's confusing fascism and communism?

They are opposite sides of the same coin - especially with respect to oppression.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
I know what his intent is and always will be regardless of how he words it.

Yeah ... his intent is New World Order COMMUNISM. Anti-borders. Anti-America. Anti-Catholic. Anti-Free-Market. And claims a 'fraternal same mission' with godless communists who really don't care about the poor at all but just pretend to. You still didn't read the links.

Pope Francis makes me proud to be a failed Catholic.

Damn proud, I tell ya!

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
I know what his intent is and always will be regardless of how he words it.

Yeah ... his intent is New World Order COMMUNISM. Anti-borders. Anti-America. Anti-Catholic. Anti-Free-Market. And claims a 'fraternal same mission' with godless communists who really don't care about the poor at all but just pretend to. You still didn't read the links.

Catholicism has always been a globalist, zion driven religion. Why is it a shock that it has similar traits to what Marxism advocates for?

What is a "zion driven" religion?

Asking for a friend...

Seriously. She's sitting right next to me and wants to know what you mean.

a reply to: TheValeyard

Real altruism: being rich, donating a huge chunk of what you have to the needy, and not telling anyone about it,
because doing the right thing is a basic ethical obligation, not something to be praised.

Keanu Reeves. The only guy worth a damn in Hollywood, NY or anywhere else that famous people flit about.

He donates a *ton*. And the most valuable thing he donates is his time. I wonder how much his time is actually worth. Taking into account how much he is paid per movie, I'd say his hourly rate is stratospheric.

He doesn't talk the talk at all. But he damn well walks the walk.

I admire the hell out of him.

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

All abrahamic religions believe to a certain extent that Jews have a self determination to return to the holy land. And from there the first stages of the end times will come and usher in a new age of global peace.
They're all apocalyptic in nature. Based off death and rebirth and being "chosen".

originally posted by: FlyersFanI have always been told that the priest does not have to be in a state of grace, nor does he have to have faith in the sacrament, in order for the sacrament to be valid. He can say mass and hear confessions and they are valid, even if he is in a state or mortal sin or if his own faith has waivered.

It is a new thing. Older catechisms said the intention of the priest is important.

From page 292. Section 1128 "The sacrament is not wrought by the righteousness of either the celebrant or the recipient, but by the power of God. From the moment that a sacrament is celebrated in accordance with the intention of the Church, the power of Christ and his Spirit acts in and through it, independently of the personal holiness of the minister. Nevertheless, the fruits of the sacraments also depend on the disposition of the one who receives them.

Priests may have started to pray to make one another's wavering faith good.
But how does that mean they won't cut you out if you're not marxist enough?
The pope blatantly said marxism and Christianity share a common mission.

They can still abuse their discretion to promote an agenda. If they're all praying to make one another's lack of faith good, then all they need is consensus. It is easy to assume one city or area or country may even extend discretion to another about promoting particular agendas.

a reply to: Solvedit

They can still abuse their discretion to promote an agenda

Not unlike the Christianity in this picture, so what?

originally posted by: Solvedit
Older catechisms said the intention of the priest is important.

I would think intention of the presiding priest matters in the sacraments. But the church says 'the intention of the church' ... not 'the intention of the priest'. So this could easily be argued in a canon law court either way I think.

That being said ... in OTHER religions intent of the one doing the prayers matters. Even the wiccans will say that intent is everything when it comes to them casting, etc etc ...