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originally posted by: Seer13
Hi lovely Earth Fam. I'm an ATS newbie and here's my first post (prob. to be added to my dossier, gasp! 😉)
Here it is:
There are those that would have me believe that there are such things as karma and free will.
Now, the problem presents itself in that very sentence: There are those that would have me believe ..
However, if I look at karma, it has the very makings of an Earth fiction using human behavioural psychology (Pavlov's dog anyone?). This Earth life is saturated with reward and punishment systems used to control behavour. In that 'light', karma looks to be man-made not divine.
'If' we are in fact portions of the One (God/Source etc.) why would the One/we need to punish and reward itself/ourselves? That seems very distorted. Much like the distortion that encrouches every aspect of Earth life. Again, not seeming very divine.
The One (us in full form) is said to be all-knowing, not lacking, not separate. Therefore, it should not need lessons, rewards or punishments--
Free will. I often hear and read that I/we have free will. Yet, every day I can point to multiple instances where that is incorrect. 2+2 does 'not' equal 5!
The only way I can make any sense of 'these views' is by the following.
Being all-knowing and perfect may get boring. So, as souls we choose to have a wide range of experiences. In choosing and planning them we use unlimited free will. But, once on Earth we forget so we can experience it as a reality. However, as it is pre-planned -chosen -determined, it does not allow for much free will.
Back to karma. So, if karma is an Earth fiction (to keep many inline having that type of experience) that would mean there is no good, bad, right and wrong. Only experiences that we chose pre-incarnating using free will. No punishments or rewards required/necessary.
Those that chose the experience of 'Architects' are to ensure the plans stay intact. Therefore, they have some of the blueprints.
What say ye fellow deep thinkers? Do you believe in the karma and free will theories we are 'told'? If not, what holes do you see in the stories and what are your views?
Could be that there are no fallen angels, just angels. Many humans like to dramatise, we love a good story and there's those that sensationalise, not mentioning names or organisations.
. I was told by mod to grow a thicker skin. Proved to be good advice. Welcome!
originally posted by: olaru12
originally posted by: Seer13
LOL nice one, re:
Just remeber, and take it from there...
(I'm still figuring out out the ATS tools)
originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Karma is a Hindu belief.
a reply to: Seer13
originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Seer13
Welcome to ATS.
Your words imply that you see free will as something real before incarnation, but fictional after.
I don't have any particular reason to believe I chose anything before being. Before being I was not.
I have strong reason to believe, and every indication points to the fact that, I will never reach the blessed state that some label non-duality.
The reason is quite simple: I am daimon possessed. Now don't freak out. It isn't weird, I assure you. Quite natural.
Daimon literally means "of divine origin". Some people may call their own daimon "the soul", "conscience", perhaps even "Holy Spirit". Daimon can actually be translated as Holy Spirit. See, not weird at all.
My daimon is part of the me, yet separate too, at the same time. Think of conscience now. Is it you, talking to yourself, or is it something not you, talking to you? Or is it both?
Again, I must caution you not to freak out. For all intents and purposes, this Daimon is my personal deity. Did my God create the Universe? No. Is my God immortal, eternal? No. Does my God control the fates of all people? No.
My God is every bit as small and weak as I am. It's part of a package deal. We began together and we will end together.
So I'm disqualified from labels like "non-duality" and even "Atheist".
Now good karma: If someone or something is benefitted by something I say, do, don't say or don't do; then good for them! Yay!
Bad karma: If someone or something is harmed by something I say, do, don't say or don't do; then sad for them. I'm sorry! And I hope you can recover.
Personal Guilt/Sin/Badness: These things weigh upon me. They don't just go away. I can't just transfer them to someone else (the premise of Christianity). So I'm disqualified from that. Neither are these transferred to some future person (the premise of re-incarnation) So I'm disqualified from that.
I am disqualified from all these Worldviews which have such great numbers of people who hold them.
I choose my Worldview freely, without societal or peer pressure, in the privacy of me and my daimon, in joint consultation and agreement.
Now how is that for free will?
originally posted by: SigmaXSquared
the only response i have to the term perfect as you have used it here
perfect is a word we made up to describe beauty which is a word we made up to describe value which is a word we made up to describe purpose which is a word we made up to...
you see where this goes
people making stuff up, including karma and free will
science says 90% of decisions are made without conscious thought and 90% of matter is empty air yet life persists
do with that information what you will, hopefully something beautiful
originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Seer13
I'm starting to suspect that if I try Hinduism, it would have to be a Bakti school of thought.
originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: Seer13
Could be that there are no fallen angels, just angels. Many humans like to dramatise, we love a good story and there's those that sensationalise, not mentioning names or organisations.
I fear scientists are trying to ruin our fantasies/beliefs/reality by discovering all the (ahem) 'chemicals' our brains can produce in times of high stress, pain, NDE's, mental illness, etc. that are said to be far more potent than the 'herbal' variety.
A great mystery is SO enjoyable, but when you reach the end it can leave you with a somewhat sad and empty feeling.
originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Seer13
I Love those moments when synchronicity happen, it's such a subjective experience, yet all triggers are objective truths.
It's when our brain does some magic and connects previously unconnected ideas.
it can have huge implications for one's perception of reality.
I'mglad if it could contribute to see better in the darkness of ones own mind, but ultimately the data one collects from outside-in is irrelevant.
all relevant information is inside already, and all that matters is what we send out...
originally posted by: Crowfoot
Mind games and slavery like conditioned animals thats all I have seen ever of the human monkey thats lost its tail and picks up another in the mouth
I've thought about the One experiencing through us but to me that feels like I am being used
originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Seer13
That limbo stage is also recognized in Buddhism. This page states that "intermediate state or bardo" ... "visions that occurred in the death process now occur in reverse order" etc.
I've thought about the One experiencing through us but to me that feels like I am being used
Yes our mind and body are being used. But what is created from dust returns to dust. Its perhaps better to think that the One has many eye's. One of those eyes is the core of your being that gives life to the atoms that is your mind and body. Your mind and body being cloths that your eye can regenerate when required.
Are you getting that urge rather than staying a free agent?
Bhakti (Sanskrit: भक्ति) means "attachment, participation, fondness for, homage, faith, love, devotion, worship, purity".
- Wikipedia -
Para bhakti dwells on the unmanifested brahman rather than anything with name and form. Apara bhakti, on the other hand, proceeds with the faith that the ultimate source of all things is a single supreme Being which is hence inherent in all things and can, therefore, be adored as such.
I do not know the One as a vengeful, spiteful God as is taught on this Earth through Christianity and karma. I feel Buddha's teachings got changed along the years, like most history of importance.
I know the One as a source of divine love, I have been fortunate enough to feel it. I know that this soul was treated with kindness, gentleness and immense love; it was not punished and has not reincarnated.