At What Point Do We Decide?

Hi Everyone,

I pretty much visit ATS to see the latest ideas and theories on the UAP issue almost daily.
To say I’m fascinated by the subject is definitely an understatement.
I see three ideas that seem to come to the forefront;
One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

Maybe the last thing I’ve seen, demon’s trying to pollute the genetics once again of the human race.

Just curious of anyone’s thoughts or opinions on these or alternative theories.

a reply to: spaceflyr

I find the last point, beings from another dimension to be the most intriguing right now. One, because it was specifically called out during the congressional oversite meeting with ex-intelligence agent Grusch. Second, because the concept of inter-dimensional interactions would explain a significant amount of sightings/encounters that have been reported over the decades.

originally posted by: spaceflyr
Three, they are inter dimensional.

Inter dimensional sounds like nonsense from a science perspective, and Grush's statements on this were complete nonsense despite his having a physics degree.

Basically we don't know what some UFOs are, and saying "they might be interdimensional" gets us nowhere, it's just another way of saying we don't know what they are, plus then you have to explain what exactly interdimensional means, which you can't do. So it's better to leave off the interdimensional part and say we don't know what the UFOs are.

Anyway look at all the human visits to Mars, they are all via human made probes. If ET is visiting earth couldn't they just be sending probes too and not visiting personally. That's the idea of the famous alien hunter Seth Shostak, and I can't say he's wrong. But we are still waiting to see evidence for alien anything, Grush's claims, as ridiculous as they sound, are not evidence of anything except maybe that he has been told some possible tall tales and maybe he believes them. His Italy/Mussolini UFO story doesn't seem very believable yet Grusch seems to believe that.

Here are some more thoughts about Grush explaining why he may be telling the truth from his perspective and may actually believe the stories he's been told, but that doesn't necessarily mean the stories are true; we need to see the evidence and he has provided none.

Some Thoughts on David Grusch - Alien Whistleblower

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Why does inter dimensional sound like nonsense from a science perspective? That’s pretty close minded to say isn’t it?

a reply to: spaceflyr

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

One and three are definitely out.
No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: spaceflyr

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

One and three are definitely out.
No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

Whose to say they are craft all? What if they are apertures that break into our dimension? That could explain why they appear to break the laws of known physics.

Exactly they move completely different to our current aviation tech. The UAP's seem to move unnaturally. drive.google.com...
a reply to: Gothmog

I get it everybody wants the evidence and they want it now, LOL I do too, but that isn't how this works, especially if this is some 70-plus-year continuing cover-up. Jeez people they didn't release the project Mogul till 1994, though there were earlier rumors

I'm sure some have read this but I just stumbled upon it yesterday.

It's from June and the theme here is Grusch is just suggesting Congress needs to look into this. Whether he believes the story or not is irrelevant, but he has shown enough videos and statements, and documentation, that Congress is asking the DoD questions no more no less. The DoD isn't saying it's bogus, but didn't they say that about the now-confirmed Tic-tac video?

It's fairly in-depth, 4 years and 40 different witnesses and they all were lying to Grusch? that in itself would suggest a disinformation campaign. Why would the DoD do this to an investigator, who by all accounts has impeccable character and scruples?

I can believe Grusch is in on some coverup or misdirection angle with the DoD here, more than he is being duped and/or is in it for the fame and financial rewards of a book deal and podcast circuit. As some here have surmised.

Here is who wrote the article

Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, with Helene Cooper, co-authored the Dec. 17, 2017, front-page article in The New York Times that disclosed the existence of a secret Pentagon program investigating UAP.

Tim McMillan, Micah Hanks, Craig Labadie ,and Sean Munger contributed to this article.

good article nothing new just more details and info

thedebrief.org...

Jonathan Grey is a generational officer of the United States Intelligence Community with a Top-Secret Clearance who currently works for the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC), where the analysis of UAP has been his focus. Previously he had experience serving Private Aerospace and Department of Defense Special Directive Task Forces.

“The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said. “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

At the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Grusch served as a Senior Intelligence Capabilities Integration Officer, cleared at the Top Secret/Secret Compartmented Information level, and was the agency’s Senior Technical Advisor for Unidentified Aerial Phenomena analysis/Trans-Medium Issues. From 2016 to 2021, he served with the National Reconnaissance Office as Senior Intelligence Officer and led the production of the NRO director’s daily briefing. Grusch was a GS-15 civilian, the military equivalent of a Colonel.

originally posted by: Itherael

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: spaceflyr

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

One and three are definitely out.
No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

Whose to say they are craft all? What if they are apertures that break into our dimension? That could explain why they appear to break the laws of known physics.

Still requires infinite energy .

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Itherael

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: spaceflyr

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

One and three are definitely out.
No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

Whose to say they are craft all? What if they are apertures that break into our dimension? That could explain why they appear to break the laws of known physics.

Still requires infinite energy .

Not sure of your scientific basis to say they require "infinite" energy, but surely if they could harness the same energy level of a black hole or something only available at higher dimension, then perhaps that could be sufficient? Or, maybe the energy requirements are completely beyond our understanding as it relates to inter-dimensional incursions.

My point is that we cant only apply our current understanding of the universe to these problems.

a reply to: spaceflyr

“At what point do we decide”

When we all come to terms from denial and realize that we are no longer at the top of the food chain.

At this point….it doesn’t matter where they are from.

There is another apex predator greater than us.

What animal has no predators?

Animals with no natural predators are called apex predators, because they sit at the top (or apex) of the food chain. The list is indefinite, but it includes lions, grizzly bears, crocodiles, giant constrictor snakes, wolves, sharks, electric eels, giant jellyfish, killer whales, polar bears….

….and arguably, humans.

Given the technology demonstrated in space, in the atmosphere, and in the seas….we are no longer a multi-domain species at “the top, the apex”.

Personally, I’ve come to terms with that.

Imo.

👽

a reply to: Techno92LFC

What science though? Or, what scientific proof, rather?

I mean, this is just theoretical conjecture. All hinging from the initial 'leap of faith' with Relativity.

It's all been theories based on that model ever since.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: spaceflyr

No way the energy required for either could be generated by such small craft .
The energy of the universe generated within a 40' diameter craft ?????

Said the primitive natives when they saw the modern airplanes streaking over their tiny islan skies.

Seriously... are you incapable of understanding just how little we know about the universe - including the laws that govern our existence?

If there is anything that I am certain of, it is that what we know and what is possible today, is not even remotely close to what we will know and what will be possible 50 years from now.

a reply to: spaceflyr

i like the basic idea of this chinese sci-fi triology (the dark forest). it might be better if we stay quiet and don't draw attention to ourselves, because whatever is out there and has the technological means to visit us can do whatever it wants with us, we would be defenseless.

At what point do we decide what?

I don't understand the title in reference to your post.

a reply to: Gothmog

Something was able to read my mind and manifest a seemingly physical object into existence that appeared to fly overhead.

Might not have taken much energy if it only happened in my head (no other witnesses) but I have been involved in multiple witness sightings and there are numerous radar / visual cases and some that have left physical traces, admittedly difficult to find a trifecta and none where documented and proven to be a completely anomalous event but seems something is finding some energy from somewhere.

a reply to: spaceflyr
Number 2 is not within the realms of possibility. The very down side is you are not talking about 50 or 60 aliens in an underwater base as this would assume that they came from somewhere else. number 1 or 2. Otherwise you would be talking of a civilization and we know that is not possible.

Number 1:- to travel from distance galaxies is in the same fantastic realms as the interdimensional hypothesis. But the time aspect is just as relevant as the interdimensional aspect. Now the "fuel" for such journeys is quite easy, it's under your nose. Gravity. Gravity permeates all the universe and just because we haven't harness it yet is wrong think. I actually think that we as a human race has been lied to and still lied to about gravity. Like "Oh gravity is too weak a force to be useful" BS. Just answer this simple question truthfully and realise what your answer will mean.
Question:- what force keeps ALL the planets in our solar system revolving around the Sun? What force keeps ALL the galaxies apart? Now we're talking of trillions of gazillions of tons of planetary bodies being kept apart. GRAVITY.

Number 3:- there is more empirical evidence for the interdimensional theory if you would care to look. And when it comes to the supposed properties of UFOs it makes more sense.

originally posted by: Techno92LFC
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Why does inter dimensional sound like nonsense from a science perspective? That’s pretty close minded to say isn’t it?

I agree it’s closed minded.

That said, my research has led me to current stance that the “IDH” is a cop out/misdirection, or it lives alongside other non-IDH-related beings and phenomenon.

Said another way, the IDH could be a layer to the “ET” phenomenon, but not the complete explanation of the ET phenomenon.

I’m a little jaded on the IDH, admittedly. I remember many years ago when I began studying UFOlogy/ancient earth and always felt like the IDH is what some people came up with when they couldn’t find other rationale for the phenomenon.

I capture UFO orbs/objects/airborne anomalies regularly. Nothing about my studies/data collection has told me they must be from another dimension.

That does not mean other dimensions don’t exist (we know they do), but it also doesn’t mean “they” come from there - at least not all of them.

a reply to: crayzeed

How do we know if extra dimensions even exist, let alone have inhabitants that can travel between dimensions?

At least basing theories on the physics in this 3D realm + time, have a more firm foundation.

Gotta start somewhere!

a reply to: putnam6

4 years and 40 different witnesses

I bet there are a thousand witnesses that could be interviewed about the Phoenix lights; that doesn't mean they came from outer space.

One, they are from somewhere far out in the universe.
Two, they are from deep within our oceans.
Three, they are inter dimensional.

You forgot number 4: It's in the realm of possibilities UAP's are a top secret product of our MIC.

We'll never learn the truth if we're only going to consider the 'evidence' we want to be true.

Ufology became a cult, followed by millions who wanted to believe anecdotal evidence. After being ridiculed by authorities for decades they're all jumping at the opportunity for finally being validated.

We would be wise to take a step back and consider why TPTB are now not only allowing but also supporting an ET Overlord belief system.